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Austrailia was just an interesting season period, because of all the drama that went back at camp, but the post merge was kind of crap I do have to say.

Um. What drama? Jerri?

I just like seasons where I have people to root for. Cook Islands and Fiji had very boring personalities, that has nothing to do with race.

If it was, you probably wouldn't know it. Just sayin

In any case, I found myself rooting for more people in CI than a lot of the other seasons, so it's really a matter of subjective preference

ETAA: I think we can all agree with All Stars was just a horrible season

I loved All-Stars

I have a minor in Sociology of Work and Business, and I have taken Race and Ethnic relations classes. To say that I am a racist because I don't like Cook Islands or Fiji is completely absurd.

Why does everyone think I'm talking about them? Good god. For 1 thing, I'm not saying anyone is RACIST per se. But we ALL do have biases, and race is definitely a social difference that affects all our opinions on some level--myself included. This DOES play a role in who you are likely to bond with or in this case which characters you're going to relate to in some fashion. You're not going to be seeing Cassandra as a motherly type as much as perhaps Tina, if you're mother is Caucasian. It's that simple. Logically, you're going to know Cassandra is a motherly type, and she will have a maternal appeal to you, but it probably won't be exactly the same. And again, I'm not saying race is the ONLY reason a person wouldn't like CI or Fiji. But to write it off as a complete non-factor given the strange way CI and Fiji get lumped together when the only thing they uniquely share is the race ratios (and a big jury) seems unreasonable. F3 is now shared with China. Idols are shared with Guatemala, EI, Fiji, and China, and Fiji and CI didn't even use the same type of idols. Recruitment has been around ever since Palau and continues to this day. Yul and Earl were NOT duplicates any more than Yul and Aras. The main thing they share in common is *gasp* being ethnic minorities. Earl seemed sort of arrogant in confessionals and played UTR. Yul was totally on the radar and was humble

Second, I don't know why you shared the classes and minor stuff with me. That doesn't necessarily exempt one from racism, and quite frankly, I never even claimed you were anyways, so I have no idea why you're taking this so personally






BTW, you're in an awfully shit-stirring mood today Swine. Bored?

After numerous arguments complaining about editing, and how THAT is why so many people dislike CI, I've decided to investigate the claims using the somewhat official edgic charts in our very own forums. I have compiled a summary of some of the more UTR edits in the history of Survivor for comparative purposes to investigate the claims that Becky/Sundra are a unique breed of UTR edits who went awfully far, and such weak characters account for the boringness of the season and predictability of the winner outcome












On your bottom right (chart below, not above), you will notice that the edits are organized in terms of what often produces a more "interesting" or "developed" character from up to down, left to right. UTRN is arguably the worst edit an individual to get, because it means they are being villainized but also remain boring. It is even worse than being INV, because at least the general audience likely won't hate you, whereas the audience will likely both hate and find boring a UTRN edited individual. INV is of course the next worse edit, because you might as well not be there for that episode. And so on. Why is CPN ahead of CP, and OTTN higher than OTT? Well, unfortunately, I have to agree with some of colorofcoils logic. At times, it is best to be negative, because it makes one more memorable and it is better to be remembered for something, than not known at all. As negative as someone like Shane or Fairplay might be, we do not forget them and can understand if they were ever casted on ASS versus someone positive and non-controversial . Even someone who is a fellow OTT, but isn't negatively is more likely to be seen as less significant. According to Sucks edgic, Lill, Tom, and Eliza are examples of OTT character who went far. Hatch, Brian, and the Robs are OTTN characters. All are pretty good characters, but I'd imagine that the OTTN characters are slightly more memorable or "entertaining" than even the OTT ones. Nevertheless, the distinction between OTTs is quite minimal. The important thing is that there is a big difference between the OTTs, CPs, etc. This is nothing new. Most of us are familiar with all this

So basically, the right key is organized by "entertainment merit". Overall, as a generality, it seems Sucks opinion is reflected from edgic ratings, so I will be basing my arguments from this POV, even though I personally think the whole she-bang is subjective in the 1st place and often like UTR characters just as much or more than OTT ones. But for the sake of argument, I'm going by conventional standards. So anyways, I notice that the most "boring" character are all the UTR and MOR ratings. CP tend to be our favorites. I tried to color code to make things easy on those reading my chart. The lighter colors are meant for more entertaining edits, while the darker ones mean a worse one. Somewhat racist, I know (see, I can joke about it?). Why is UTRP ahead of MOR? Well, actually, there are times when a MOR edit is WORSE than a UTR one. A person who is defined as a MOR at the end of a season may be considered a horrible character, because they were around for a long time but added no real dimension to the show. They got a lot of confessionals and explained some things, but didn't necessarily have a particular tone or story line. At least some UTR edited individuals are surrounded by mystery, or we might assume the editors shafted them unfairly and that they might really have been more interesting. A MOR individual sometimes leaves no doubt that they were boring, since they got airtime, yet still got no tone or storyline. This is of course, subjective, because a MOR rating encompasses a broad range of characters from Keith to Jeanne to Lisa and so on

Below, the characters listed are ordered from most complex and entertaining by edgic standards to least. As you can see, while Becky and Sundra are certainly low, their edits are neither particularly unique nor the worst ever in terms of a simplistic look at their edgic ratings







1. As discussed, Jenn Lyon's edit comes the most closest to Becky's of anyone. Becky is arguably the worst edit of CI and possible of all time according to Sucks, so we will investigate that claim. Both women got 2 INV edits, except Jenn's came consecutively which should immediately have written her off from the winner list and made Tom the obvious winner according to KP logic. Both women lasted the same number of episodes on a 20 person season, so this comparison is also very useful. Both women basically have equal ratios of UTR and MOR edits as well. The most significant difference is that Becky at least has 1 shining edit in her UTR wasteland--a CP2, while Jenn's best edit is a MORP2. At least according to edgic, Becky was thus the more developed character contrary to popular belief, and yet Becky is derided while Jenn is loved. The contrast between the argument and facts could not be any clearer. At the least, they should be viewed similarly, or Becky should have the edge. The only way that Jenn could possibly be seen more interesting with this data is the subjective element--preferences like looks, occupation, Coby, and *gasp* race--among a billion other things that affect one's opinions of what one finds entertaining


2. We turn our attention to example #2. Outback Amber. Amber is not our best example, since she got 3 episodes less than Becky, but since Becky got 2 INV, the girls are about the same in terms of the number of times they appeared, this will do. Considering Becky is from a 20 person season, while Amber is from a 16 person season, their comparable screentime makes for a relatively decent comparison. As you can see, Amber is perhaps the poster child for UTR edit, and probably was the model for Jenn and Becky's edits. The edits are similar to both women, although Jenn and Becky both got better ones, but we give some leeway since Amber finished in 6th place as opposed to 4th or 3rd. Although I think Outback only got 13 episodes anyways right?


3. Stacy has a rather dismal edit with perhaps a record setting 4 INV edits in a season, but is somewhat saved with her OTTN3 episode which makes her memorable at least, despite being negative and everything all her other edits being the same or worse than Becky's. Not much to say here, other than I think the lesson here is that at least 1 OTT episode edit can "save" a person from being unanimously hated by Sucks. For many seasons, a lot of people I found to be duds, are barely developed saved a big OTTN edit for their boot episode. I consider Borneo Stacey to be a dud, but others probably dislike the CI girls more. How can this be? Well, although Stacey got 2 UTRN episodes out of 3, her final one is a OTTN5 in her boot episode. Apparently, an OTT episode can almost completely save you from Sucks hate no matter how flat of a character you ended up being or what your edit was throughout the whole season. I'm sure her bikini scenes helped too


4. Nick only lasted 10 episodes, but I mention him for specific reasons. First, he got the prototypical lazy black man edit, moreso than Gervase, who at least came off charming and likeable. Perhaps 1 of the worst edits ever. 1 MORP3 is his saving grace. Everything else? UTRs. His other shining moment? A OTTN3 for his boot episode, and unsurprisingly, it's negative. He gets a nice little INV1 also to round out his 1-dimensional characterization. What are we missing? Oh yeah, the complaining about his poor character development like Becky and Sundra. Or better yet, how unfair of an edit he got and how he was portrayed as lazy and good for nothing, when he is a hard-working Harvard student and people after the show even said he got completely shafted! But we only complain when Raro gets negatively edited, even though there was a lot less manipulation involved in their edits than with Nick

But wait! Wasn't the early seasons paragons of character development and complex edits that we all long for?! And here we see both Amber and Nick get 2 of the worst edits in Survivor history in the same season: Outback. But no, CI is unique and 1 of a kind and is the only season with poorly edited players. We should blame Outback's poor character development on its 20 person--Oh wait. It was a small little 16 person cast. Hmmm...Let's talk about how crappy F3 twists are to distract us from such disturbing contradictions


5. Finally, we come to Darrah. No one talks about Darrah. Like ever. This is undisputably a worse edit than Becky and Sundra. I don't think I even have to explain this. 12 consecutive UTR episodes and a MORP2 for her boot. And people complain about Becky?! Not only that, even beyond a superficial edgic analysis, just think of her personality. At least with Becky, you knew she had her game face on and always looked stern or serious