How I learned to stop worrying and love Survivor Thailand/S13 discussion

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XtremeInnovator420		#521	[-]
Posts: 566 (12/12/07 6:26 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Well, I give up, no way can I keep up with this thread, lol.
RavuRules		#522	[-]
Posts: 1383 (12/12/07 6:36 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Not mad at you at all Ravu :P All I'm saying is the data you've been using to make your statements is not all that reliable in my opinion. You certainly didn't make the completely absurd decision that Sean and Rudy had UTR edits, but the edgic data caused you to at least temporarily make a statement which was totally off in mine and other's opinions. Exactly. That same edgic has been used to justify why CI editing sucks among other things. Now of course, you and others will say you independently thought the editing sucked without edgic. But I think the moral of the story is that the whole judgmental process of what entails good editing is subjective in the 1st place. Yours, mine, edgic, etc. So trying to talk objectively at all about OPINIONS is fucking stupid in the 1st place. But if you're making an argument on visibility which IS a fact (tone would not be), then edgic has a leg up on your assessments Quid Regarding Guatemala, its what caused me to have such an extreme dislike for edgic in the first place when I tried to have some input in that thread during that season. Edgic's assessment of Guatemala was a huge failure, and they now in hindsight make up reasons to cover up their huge failure by making ridiculous statements that very few, if any ever uttered during the season. I don't have faith in their data regarding Guatemala at all, and hence don't think a real valid comparison can be made between Guatemala and Cook Islands using that data. Why? Just because Guatemala did not predict the winner correctly, it doesn't invalidate their assessment of visibility really. That should stay pretty consistent regardless of the interpretations of the data they extrapolate from that
XtremeInnovator420		#523	[-]
Posts: 567 (12/12/07 6:47 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Just out of curiosity, who WERE the edgic leaders to win Guatemala and why did people think that they would win?
Dictatorship		#524	[-]
Posts: 1336 (12/12/07 6:53 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I think Brandon was an early leader, followed by Gary with Stephenie in the end. Don't quote me on it though.
RavuRules		#525	[-]
Posts: 1385 (12/12/07 6:54 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I think the obvious answer would be Steph and Rafe, and I don't even know Guatemala's edgic process. Steph would be the front-runner. Wonder what Danni and Lydia's chances were. If we use CI hater logic, then those 2 chicks should've been eliminated since they were both UTR F4s (i.e. Sundra and Becky)
Dictatorship		#526	[-]
Posts: 1337 (12/12/07 6:56 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Yes, Ravu, Danni and Lydiot were practically 100% eliminated because of their UTRness. So it's not just Cook Islands hater logic
Quiddity		#527	[-]
Posts: 1496 (12/12/07 6:58 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Exactly. That same edgic has been used to justify why CI editing sucks among other things. Now of course, you and others will say you independently thought the editing sucked without edgic. But I think the moral of the story is that the whole judgmental process of what entails good editing is subjective in the 1st place. Yours, mine, edgic, etc. So trying to talk objectively at all about OPINIONS is fucking stupid in the 1st place. But if you're making an argument on visibility which IS a fact (tone would not be), then edgic has a leg up on your assessments Quid It's always been opinions with me Ravu, I've felt that I've always made that clear. And I've never made the claim that I'm objective or unbiased. My dislike of Cook Islands is only my opinion. There's no facts behind it, just like there's no facts behind your love for the season. It's just one person's thought on a season of a TV show. Even visibility ratings used by edgic are tained to a certain extent. I've certainly seen many instances where decisions on whether someone is UTR or INV was based on whether their non-confessional sentence or two was done on screen/off screen, during a challenge, etc... You'll never see me using edgic ratings to support any argument of mine.l Why? Just because Guatemala did not predict the winner correctly, it doesn't invalidate their assessment of visibility really. That should stay pretty consistent regardless of the interpretations of the data they extrapolate from that One of my core disagreements with edgic during Guatemala was the episode by episode ratings they were assigning to castaways. I disagreed with many ratings they were giving out. For one thing, I felt they were not giving non-Stephenie women the credit their edit deserved. I felt Cindy and Danni had a much better edit than edgic gave them credit for. UTRs/MOPs/CPs, whatever you want to rate them, they don't have much value to me when I completely disagree with and have major problems with the validity of how those ratings are given out in the first place. Just out of curiosity, who WERE the edgic leaders to win Guatemala and why did people think that they would win? Off the top of my head, Brandon and Gary were the leaders throughout most of the game and Stephenie was the leader at the end.
XtremeInnovator420		#528	[-]
Posts: 568 (12/12/07 7:03 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Hm, so people gave Rafe the "Rob C" edit prediction shortly into it, huh? I can understand Brandon and Gary, but Steph? Wouldn't she have been too OTT and visible by edgic standards?
Survivor2345andbeyond		#529	[-]
Posts: 3208 (12/12/07 8:15 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Guatemala: Rafe,Cindy,Margaret,Brandon,Danni,Lydia,Steph,Gary,Jamie,Bobby Jon and Brian all showed up on the Top 4 winner choices at some point (61%)
seltzer3		#530	[-]
Posts: 647 (12/12/07 9:44 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I have to say, after reading the past 5 pages, I never seen Dictatorship get so riled up before. Usually he can always suppress himself, or hide behind his Amanda <3, Candice <3, Darrah <3 etc. I guess some colors are beginning to show.
7neves7		#531	[-]
Posts: 2424 (12/12/07 11:25 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I used to participate in edgic a lot back in the day but quit after Guatemala. You guys do need to remember that Edgic didn't start until Marquesas, but it really wasn't what it is today until around Amazon and Pearl Islands. The ratings for Seasons 1 and 2 were obviously redone when the DVD's came out. I don't think the data is corrupt, because ratings are ratings. A perfect example is Guatemala. There were certain people who kept making a case for Danni, when her edit clearly did not match up with Edgic principles. Her ratings were right, but they did not match up with Edgic. The corruptness comes in when people are making a case for someone that doesn't really match the principles. WE all know what happened, Danni ended up winning and there were spoilers all season. IT was pretty obvious that people were using spoilers to make a case for Danni, even though her edit did not match up at all. Ravu, we just have to agree to disagree. The Cook Islands players were just boring. I do remember liking Cao Boi, Jonathan, Flicka, and Parvati but that was about it. I stopped watching it as soon as Jonathan got voted off and I realized that all my favorites were gone. Yul is really dry. I mean he just is.. HAve you watched any of his interviews? He is just a very articulate individual, but to me that is boring. I mean I can understand why you have such a passion for it, if it was your first season. However, I think you need to realize that people are passionate about the Pre-ASS seasons because that was the golden age of survivor for many of us. It was when Survivor was still popular and the biggest show on TV. Reality TV was not in existant at the time, so many of these moments were just shocking to us. I think a lot of us (I know for me personally) have become just immune to crazy shit that happens on TV. For me personally, this is the first time I have been invested in Survivor in quite a while. I used to post on Sucks a lot but pretty much stopped after Palau. China has made me excited about Survivor again.
finishthemoff		#532	[-]
Posts: 6985 (12/13/07 12:38 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Neve.. have you even seen the Youtube.com of Yul that I post earlier?
finishthemoff		#533	[-]
Posts: 6986 (12/13/07 12:39 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Cao Boi, Jonathan, Flicka, and Parvati Pretty much white people are the interesting one................... and that ain't racism!
RavuRules		#534	[-]
Posts: 1388 (12/13/07 5:23 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Yes, Ravu, Danni and Lydiot were practically 100% eliminated because of their UTRness. So it's not just Cook Islands hater logic And we all saw how well THAT worked out huh? Danni wins and proves edgic doesn't know WTF it's talking about. So of course it makes sense to listen to them again, and think Becky and Sundra have no chance right? . What a moron. Why don't you just give me the perfect counter-example It's always been opinions with me Ravu, I've felt that I've always made that clear. And I've never made the claim that I'm objective or unbiased. My dislike of Cook Islands is only my opinion. There's no facts behind it, just like there's no facts behind your love for the season. It's just one person's thought on a season of a TV show. Even visibility ratings used by edgic are tained to a certain extent. I've certainly seen many instances where decisions on whether someone is UTR or INV was based on whether their non-confessional sentence or two was done on screen/off screen, during a challenge, etc... You'll never see me using edgic ratings to support any argument of mine.l But you have used editing (i.e. CI has "poor editing") to justify your arguments which are as subjective as edgic but try to take on an objective air just as similarly. So the result is the same in that sense One of my core disagreements with edgic during Guatemala was the episode by episode ratings they were assigning to castaways. I disagreed with many ratings they were giving out. For one thing, I felt they were not giving non-Stephenie women the credit their edit deserved. I felt Cindy and Danni had a much better edit than edgic gave them credit for. UTRs/MOPs/CPs, whatever you want to rate them, they don't have much value to me when I completely disagree with and have major problems with the validity of how those ratings are given out in the first place. Yeah, at this point, I want to re-do edgic myself. Wanna help me out edgic all the seasons? I have to say, after reading the past 5 pages, I never seen Dictatorship get so riled up before. Usually he can always suppress himself, or hide behind his Amanda <3, Candice <3, Darrah <3 etc. I guess some colors are beginning to show. Yeah seriously. LOL. His true colors showed a long time ago, but it is amusing for him to take the topic seriously for once because his racist agenda is threatened. You gotta give it to me, I know how to stir up controversy and provocative discussion in LTS like no others I used to participate in edgic a lot back in the day but quit after Guatemala. You guys do need to remember that Edgic didn't start until Marquesas, but it really wasn't what it is today until around Amazon and Pearl Islands. The ratings for Seasons 1 and 2 were obviously redone when the DVD's came out. I don't think the data is corrupt, because ratings are ratings. A perfect example is Guatemala. There were certain people who kept making a case for Danni, when her edit clearly did not match up with Edgic principles. Her ratings were right, but they did not match up with Edgic. The corruptness comes in when people are making a case for someone that doesn't really match the principles. WE all know what happened, Danni ended up winning and there were spoilers all season. IT was pretty obvious that people were using spoilers to make a case for Danni, even though her edit did not match up at all. The same spoiling happens in all the seasons basically including CI. It's just that Yul wasn't a totally off winner edit like Danni, so people can pretend that they really were looking at this edit and not at spoilers instead. Becky and Sundra were the equivalent of Guatemala's Lydia and Danni and Danni won. There is no excuse for writing those 2 women off unless one was already spoiled Ravu, we just have to agree to disagree. The Cook Islands players were just boring. I do remember liking Cao Boi, Jonathan, Flicka, and Parvati but that was about it. I stopped watching it as soon as Jonathan got voted off and I realized that all my favorites were gone. 3/4 of your favorites were Caucasians and the last was an exotic ethnic minority token. Coincidence? It's totally possible you only like OTT types, but I really think that you found them boring likely due to race bias which you're unaware of, just as we all have such demographic leanings like rooting for females over males, rooting for old people over younger people, etc. "Boring" is a subjective determination, and it's affected by biases, so saying we have to agree to disagree and then go ahead and saying that it's fact that CI players were "just boring" is entirely hypocritical and obviously I'll fight you every inch of the way on that. You can't say let's just respectfully disagree and then basically say my opinion doesn't mean shit but yours is fact. A bit over-dramatic yes, but that IS the hidden implication of that statement Yul is really dry. I mean he just is.. HAve you watched any of his interviews? He is just a very articulate individual, but to me that is boring. I mean I can understand why you have such a passion for it, if it was your first season. However, I think you need to realize that people are passionate about the Pre-ASS seasons because that was the golden age of survivor for many of us. It was when Survivor was still popular and the biggest show on TV. Reality TV was not in existant at the time, so many of these moments were just shocking to us. I think a lot of us (I know for me personally) have become just immune to crazy shit that happens on TV. No, no. Don't get me wrong. Yul IS dry. Even to someone like me who can appreciate his articulative abilities and intellect, I can see that much. But he's certainly not the 1st and only dry individual we've ever had, and my tastes aren't really slapstick humor anyways. I've mentioned before that I'm a rather conservative individual who doesn't care for attention whore types necessarily, so for me, I relate better to the CI folk a lot better and their personalities resonate with me a lot more. Maybe the California bias has something to do with it. It's not really because CI was my 1st season I don't think, because technically Thailand was my 1st full season, and I'd seen all of the seasons before CI even ended. If I had a nostalgic bias for CI, I should have one for Thailand, but it's my 2nd least favorite season, so obviously my nostalgia bias is probably somewhat minimal In terms of you guys loving the "Golden Age" of Survivor, I have no problem with that. What I don't like is when you guys then turn around and try to take on some false objective air about how those seasons were innately more superior due to editing or blah blah blah, when really it's all about your personal emotional attachments. Like, why spread the hate about different seasons? Why can't we all just like all of them, and promote Survivor as a great show, rather than in-fight so your personal favorites can be looked at great? It's dumb, but if you want to play that game, obviously someone like me whose favorite seasons get bashed is going to be like, "Bitches please" For me personally, this is the first time I have been invested in Survivor in quite a while. I used to post on Sucks a lot but pretty much stopped after Palau. China has made me excited about Survivor again. Fair weather fan huh? I agree China has been great Cao Boi, Jonathan, Flicka, and Parvati Pretty much white people are the interesting one................... and that ain't racism! You're right. It's not racism. But it looks like race bias for sure. It's okay if those 4 were his favorites, but saying he didn't care for the others, nor really remembered them is kind of a red flag
mfrimley		#535	[-]
Posts: 462 (12/13/07 8:42 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Quiddity wrote: It's always been opinions with me Ravu, I've felt that I've always made that clear. And I've never made the claim that I'm objective or unbiased. My dislike of Cook Islands is only my opinion. There's no facts behind it, just like there's no facts behind your love for the season. It's just one person's thought on a season of a TV show. There are no dissenting opinions on this. Ravu has debunked them all. The only remaining explanation is a visceral repulsion at the sight of racial minorities. I know that only makes sense if you presume the person saying it is white, which might suggest a certain narrow-mindedness in itself, but whatever. You might think that intellectual honesty would require that I question the accuracy of my inferences if some of the people I lecture about racial biases turn out to be minorities themselves, but if I wish hard enough and bend over backwards far enough, I can make anybody's criticisms fit that template and continue harping on this like a broken record. Even if I could name several self-identified minorities who post here who weren't fans of Cook Islands either and are on the record saying even they found most of the cast boring, they're probably either lying about their ethnic backgrounds or happen to be the curious self-hating type of minorities who don't like seeing people like themselves on TV. Oreos like Jamalle and twinkies like Growsonwalls and Kitty Pryde (and I believe finishthemoff is hispanic, but I could be mistaken, and don't know the correct epithet for someone hispanic on the outside and white on the inside. A coconut?) have clearly been corrupted by the Eurocentric media like the rest of you honkys. 7neves7 wrote: Ravu, we just have to agree to disagree. The Cook Islands players were just boring. I do remember liking Cao Boi, Jonathan, Flicka, and Parvati but that was about it. I stopped watching it as soon as Jonathan got voted off and I realized that all my favorites were gone. So you just liked the white people and a twinkie token who didn't feel accepted by the Asian community? Do you realize how self-explanatory that is, and how easy you make all the race baiting and shit throwing for me and Ravu? You might wonder why I would care if watching the show was boring for you or would consider it my problem, but that boredom becomes dangerous when it comes at the expense of mactors of color. If you weren't captivated by Becky or didn't have a hard-on for the Hiki girls, you are a menace to the moral fabric of this community. RavuRules wrote: Yeah seriously. LOL. His true colors showed a long time ago, but it is amusing for him to take the topic seriously for once because his racist agenda is threatened. You gotta give it to me, I know how to stir up controversy and provocative discussion in LTS like no others Yep. Generating mild opprobrium for some insignificant ghostie on a Survivor message board and giving him the attention he clearly craves is always worth hanging your hat on. "Boring" is a subjective determination, and it's affected by biases, so saying we have to agree to disagree and then go ahead and saying that it's fact that CI players were "just boring" is entirely hypocritical and obviously I'll fight you every inch of the way on that. You can't say let's just respectfully disagree and then basically say my opinion doesn't mean shit but yours is fact. A bit over-dramatic yes, but that IS the hidden implication of that statement Since you've thrown down the gauntlet, let me be the first to say that I'm with you all the way, Tailgunner Ravu. Differences of opinion on something as important and profound as a gameshow that was on last year are always worth declaring war over. I propose a merciless campaign of racial McCarthyism against these mothafuckas. That race card will be so automatic and kneejerk, anyone who opposes us should expect to be smeared. If politely disagreeing and prevailing in the marketplace of ideas doesn't work, we can just intimidate our opponents into keeping their racist dogma to themselves.
Dr Will Hatch two point oh		#536	[-]
Posts: 1904 (12/13/07 9:44 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Wow, this is getting way out of hand. Ravu, I agree with you that people have certain bias pertaining to race, we all have bias in certain areas of anything in life, but making judements that people are racist are unsound. I never read any racist comment in this thread
7neves7		#537	[-]
Posts: 2425 (12/13/07 9:44 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	The same spoiling happens in all the seasons basically including CI. It's just that Yul wasn't a totally off winner edit like Danni, so people can pretend that they really were looking at this edit and not at spoilers instead. Becky and Sundra were the equivalent of Guatemala's Lydia and Danni and Danni won. There is no excuse for writing those 2 women off unless one was already spoiled Danni's win is weird because her editing didn't really fit, but she did come on strong at the end of the season (Like when Gary got booted) Becky really never got a strong edit. Edgic kind of threw in Danni's win as the storyline of how Steph lost, but it really can't be explained. Edgic really isn't a proven theory, but it is genearlly good at finding out the end game players. Thats pretty much it is all good for. As far as my favorites being Cao Boi, Jonathan, Parvati, and Flicka.. All I have to say is when I typed that I didn't even think about race. I don't think about race really any of the time. I mean I don't really know what I am supposed to say. If I like someone like Cirie, then you guys will say oh well she is black, but since she was so popular it doesn't count.. Uhh what? Sorry but that just doesn't make sense. I like OTT people/weird strategy people and hardcore strategists. I hate people like Tom and Yul who try to manhandle the game and make everyone bow down to them. Its boring game play. I give all the credit in the world to Tom and Yul, but their gameplay was boring as shit. I liked Flicka's attitude in the game because she didn't really seem to know what was going on, and I was hoping that she was going to say Fuck you to Yul and vote him out. Alas that never happened. Cao Boi, I mean he was just a crazy old man that the younger asians didn't appreciate. I liked Parvati's personality, but I hated her after the merge because she just sit there and did nothing. Jonathan, well he was the strategist and he was a very good one in that. However, he shot himself in the foot when he jumped ship from Aitu. You can say what you want but the other people are boring. I mean JP was an asshole. Brad was just meh. Rebecca was meh. I did like Jenny actually, because she pretty much went around and said fuck you to everyone. She also seemed to know the game, but she got fucked over. I will list them out: JP - asshole to the whole tribe.. kinda indifferent on him Brad - just meh to me. Rebecca - ?? Sundra - was okay, not near as boring as becky. I actually wanted Sundra to win. Ozzy - Okay, but challenge whore and I didn't want him to win. Once again, Ozzy and Yul pretty much dominated the game. Ozzy played horrible strategically. Yul - already been said.. I hate challenge whores who man handle the game, its just boring. Props on Yul's gameplay Adam - meh, hot mactor.. He looks almost like Jeff Wilson from Palau.. Doesn't really know how to play the game Parvati - alright at first but then I disliked her after the merge Jenny - I did like Jenny because she pretty much said what she wanted to Stephannie - not really an opinion on her Sekou - no opinion Candace - the whole billy/candace story line was pretty hilarious. She was kinda bitchy I thought. Her and Adams relationship was stupid Cecilia - meh Billy - he was kinda cool.. I was sad to see him go. Fuck JP Other random latina - dont' remember her name but was sad to see her go. I believe she was the cop that tried to save Billy? Flicka - She was meant to be courtney 2.0. She was cool just because she was there for the adventure I thought. She seemed kinda naive like some of the young girls from Season 1. Becky - Meh whatever been reiterated 5 million times Jonathan - awesome strategists.. good person to have on any season. I don't even know who I am forgetting. I am trying to remember but I dont' know who I left out. I mean I really do think its stupid how you claim its race biases. So I like Cao Boi or Jenny but they don't count because they are "different" That makes no sense. How are they different? It sounds like you guys are the ones making stereotypes about ethnic groups, not me.
RavuRules		#538	[-]
Posts: 1389 (12/13/07 9:56 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I've only labeled 1 person as racist Will and that is Dictatorship, who is pretty notorious for being so. He is also known as Tennis Ace and his shtick is to like the cute white females in any season. He's basically unapologetically racist, and I'm not the 1st to think of him in this way Swine is just stirring the pot, because he's probably bored, so if you're being agitated by his sarcasm trying to make it seem like I'm calling everyone racist, don't fall for it
ptcruisn56		#539	[-]
Posts: 3760 (12/13/07 9:57 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	The problem with using edgic for arguments and even trying to compare it from season to season doesn't work very well. I agree with people that say there isn't a specific formula to each season that predicts a winner. It isn't always about numbers or statistics or air time. That being said I can't argue about Guatemala because I missed most of the season, but for someone who doesn't view spoilers I thought it was fairly obvious early on that both Yul and Earl were going to win. Maybe a little longer for Yul then Earl and then also a little bit of doubt at the end with Ozzy still there that he wasn't going to win. I didn't know how they were going to get there and of course I wasn't 100% sure but the way they portrayed Yul made it obvious he was still in the running to win. He was smart, wasn't over the top like Jonathan, and he was shown calling the shots. I think if Becky really had a chance they would have shown more of her strategic sessions with Yul. If Sundra had a shot they would have given her more of a story. I know that Danni was under the radar but at least in the final couple of episodes she was by herself and was talking to us about her chances moreso then Becky or Sundra. You need to take into account that people are UTR relative to other people in there seasons. I'd never consider Rudy or Sean UTR compared to Becky and Sundra. I don't see them on the same level as how much they've shown on eachc of them. Even in the final few episodes of Guatemala I thought Danni was around quite a bit. Sure I've contradicted myself a bit, but bottom line is you can't compare Cook Islands and Fiji to earlier seasons because to much is different from the shows with Borneo then it is now. It was about the people, survival, and learning the game in Borneo. Now it is about alliances, challenges, twists, and big moments. I think the show is edited around who wins and what happens in the final tribal council, they need to basically edit it backwards so that when we get to the final tribal council it makes sense (and it some cases it doesn't like I think that someone asked if Clay was racist). Also edgic should be thought of differently, there isn't a clear cut winner but there is a way to get a feel of a season to see who could possibly win. Granted some seasons that feeling should be more obvious then others. Don't really want to keep writing in circles (and probably more holes in what I am trying to say) but look at this season of China. After just a few episodes based on how much they were showing Todd, James, and Amanda and what they were showing about them (and what they were showing about others making you think they weren't long for the game) who didn't think they would be making it fairly far in the game? It isn't some clear cut example or word I am thinking of but I hope people generally get what I am trying to say.
Dr Will Hatch two point oh		#540	[-]
Posts: 1909 (12/13/07 10:03 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	RavuRules wrote: I've only labeled 1 person as racist Will and that is Dictatorship, who is pretty notorious for being so. He is also known as Tennis Ace and his shtick is to like the cute white females in any season. He's basically unapologetically racist, and I'm not the 1st to think of him in this way Swine is just stirring the pot, because he's probably bored, so if you're being agitated by his sarcasm trying to make it seem like I'm calling everyone racist, don't fall for it The only person Ive found to be openly racist is a poster named "Dictatorshit"(if Dictatorship and he ar the same person, sorry)

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