PJMichaelangelo wrote:
Pagongs are destined to be Pagonged.
I'll quote this again when Gretchen wins.
(JK she won't)
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cardswin5 |
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PJMichaelangelo wrote: I'll quote this again when Gretchen wins. |
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SenseiKreese |
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Pagongs are destined to be Pagonged. I like that. That should have been the title of episode 11. :)
I get home from vacation in 3 days. Then I should be able to get started on ep 12. It should be a good one. I've had a lot of time to think it over while driving over the past two weeks. |
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SenseiKreese |
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Okay I finished my notes for episode 11. I'll put them up on the website later tonight, but because I know people have waited a while for them I'll
also post them here in the forum. Hang on, I'll cut and paste them into the next post.
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SenseiKreese |
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EPISODE 11 NOTES - Part 1
Here's a little secret about writing Survivor fiction. When you write a Survivor story, the "final six" episode is ALWAYS the hardest episode to write. Always. Hands down. It happens every single time I have tried to write one of these things. Why is the final six episode so hard to write? Well because as a good friend of mine pointed out to me lo so many years ago, the final six in Survivor should ALWAYS be a tie. There should always be a 3-3 tie, no matter what. Because if you're looking at it from a realistic point of view, there should always be a three person "power" alliance and a couple of hangers-on, and the three hangers-on should be smart enough to band together to force a 3-3 tie, just to see if they can shake the game up. As many Survivor analysts have pointed out over the years, the final six showdown is the one that the alliance in power should always be wary of. So anyway, there you go. That was the dilemma that I was facing as we went into episode 11 of All-Star Hawaii. How do I deal with the final 6 showdown that was potentially brewing, and how do I do it in a way so I don't have to write a freaking purple rock episode (which I absolutely loathe doing because it's never particularly satisfying to anyone)? How do I write a realistic episode in the slot that my stories have always tended to falter a little bit? Because if you go back and look at my older stories, you will see that it is true. The final 6 episode is one that I have historically struggled with. It's particularly noticeable in my Alaska story. In Alaska, I had no idea what to do at the final six, so I just lamely wrote out the character that I had no idea what to do with (Kelly W.) There's no particular reason WHY she was voted at the final six. I just remember thinking that it seemed like a good idea at the time. But if you go back and read Alaska now, you will see that it's the one episode that I think seems particularly weak. And you can trace that all back to the fact that the final six episode is always the trickiest (and the most challenging) of the series to write. And yes, the premiere and the finale are hard too. But for different reasons. We'll get to that when we get to the Hawaii finale.
---- GRETCHEN VOLUNTEERS TO QUIT ----
So this was the dilemma I faced. How do I write a satisfying final six episode in Hawaii without a purple rock tie, and most importantly, how do I do it REALISTICALLY? How do I do it in a manner that is not only fair to all six characters, but is also realistic as to their motivations, personalities, and storylines? How do I write the best final six episode that has ever been featured in any of my stories? The only way to delve into this was to start playing the "what if?" game. Now obviously the focus of episode 11 needed to be Gretchen. After all, at the end of episode 10, she had just lost her best friend in the game (Kathy), she was losing hope extremely rapidly, and she was now facing a very dire situation where she was powerless and her back was pretty much completely to the wall. She literally had zero options left. So I sat down at the start of episode 11, and I started brainstorming what Gretchen would want to do about it. I sat there, and I thought: If I were Gretchen, and if I knew my game was in deep, deep trouble, how would I approach this? What is the first thing I would decide to do about it? Well if there are two things we know about Gretchen Cordy (at least in this story), they are that A) She is self-righteous and stubborn, whenever she wants to be, and B) She does not like losing to alliances. She doesn't really think that quote-unquote "alliances" are fair. Of course part of this is because she lost to the Tagis the same way back in Borneo (which probably galled her), but another part of it is because she knows that Tina, Vee, and John are really not the best of friends behind the scenes. She knows they don't really like one another. And this, I believe, is the straw that really breaks her back. In Gretchen's mind, when the Kekos banded together a couple of episode ago (Alicia, Gretchen, Kathy), it wasn't so much for strategic reasons, as it was out of mutual respect. At one point, the three of them really DID like one another. They got along, they thought alike, and it was a natural friendship. They weren't an alliance out of 100% strategy, they were an alliance because they were never going to vote for one another. You might call Gretchen a hypocrite for thinking this way, but in her mind the three Kekos were never really a quote-unquote "alliance." They were simply three women who had been thrown together against an enemy, and were determined to fight it. But when she looks at Tina, John and Vee, she doesn't see that at all. No way. She KNOWS they will never be close friends outside the game. She knows it. And she knows that they are going to screw Colleen the first chance they get. Colleen is dead meat at the final four, because she's simply no strategist. Gretchen sees this, and it makes her simultaneously feel sad as well as a little bit angry. In fact, it pisses her off. How dare the Ahis do that to innocent Colleen! There's no way she's going to let her friend go down so pathetically against three people she feels are playing the game a little too hardcore. So this is where the first part of the "what if?" game came in. I sat there, and I thought, "If I were Gretchen, and I were REALLY ticked off about the way this game was headed, and if I REALLY wanted to just fuck it up for everyone involved, how could I do this? What is the one way I could get Colleen to turn on the Ahis, and force a tie?" Because remember, Gretchen had been asking Colleen to jump sides for numerous episodes now, and Colleen wasn't gonna have any of it. How could Gretchen finally push Colleen into making the jump? And it really wasn't that hard. I just thought, "Well Gretchen could volunteer to drop out of the game at the final three." Bam. Because if she does that, then Colleen now has no reason NOT to switch. All the variables have now clicked firmly into place. If Colleen forces a 3-3 tie against the Ahis, not only does Gretchen get what she wants (none of the Ahi Three can win anymore), but Colleen also gets what she wants (she doesn't have to face Gretchen in the final two.) Even though it means that Gretchen will now lose the game, she now gets to go out on HER terms (which is the underlying argument all alone), which makes this a win-win opportunity for everyone. The minute I had the idea of Gretchen volunteering to drop out of the game, I knew I was going to use it. I knew it would send a shockwave through just about every other aspect of the story. This was going to change everything.
---- THE AHI RESPONSE ----
So now I had answered part 1 of the "what if?" game. what does Gretchen do? That part was now set in stone. Next, of course, I had to come up with part two. What do the Ahis do? Because that, in essence, was the much more important question in this episode. Once the Ahis realize their backs are to the wall, how do they respond? What do they do? Do they have a chess piece they can use to counter Gretchen's attempt at checkmate? So I sat down to think about this for a few days. From the very start, I knew that the point man for the Ahis in this episode was going to have to be John. From the very first minute I sat down to plan this episode, I knew that the entire rest of the storyline would all have to go through him. After all, of the three Ahis (Vee/Tina/John), John was the only one who had any sort of relationship with the other three players. Tina and Vee? Hell no. They were off on their own, planning their little "former winner" final two pact. They had no interest in interacting with Gretchen or Alicia. Gretchen and Alicia were little more than war casualties to them. But John, now he was a much more intriguing variable in this whole little puzzle. Because John DID have a strong relationship with Colleen. And John DID have a burgeoning relationship with Alicia. It certainly wasn't what you would call a strong relationship yet, but it was there. I had smartly been building it up in episodes 9 and 10, just for this particular reason. Obviously any sort of counter-attack would have to come through John. With solid ties to both Colleen and Alicia, he was the only chance the Ahis had left. So I sat down again, and I thought about John's counter-attack. How the hell would he react to this? How on earth could he sway Colleen back to the Ahis? What could he promise her? Could he promise her anything? And if he couldn't, how could he at least sway Alicia not to do this? What kind of bargaining power does he have against a plan that is pretty much guaranteed to sabotage his game? Well my first instinct in this situation was to have John promise Colleen the exact same thing that Gretchen just promised her. I thought it would be fun if John said, "Well how about this. How about you DON'T force a tie tonight, and then we get down to four or three, I drop out of the game too. Then it will be you against a former winner (either Tina or Vecepia). There's no way you'll get a better deal than that." I thought about that, and I loved it, but eventually it just didn't strike me as something that John would realistically do. I mean, it would have worked for the story, and it would have been a fun "double checkmate" moment to write, but you have to remember, I'm trying to work around realistic character portrayals here. And John isn't going to just flat out lie to Colleen about a pact like this. He would never do that. He's more into honesty. If he tells Colleen he is going to drop out at the final three, well then that's exactly what he would do. And I'm sorry, but John wouldn't DO that. He wants to win. He wants to win this game a hell of a lot more than Gretchen does. So as enticing as it would be to pull Colleen under his wing and promise her a "Gretchen-type deal", I decided in the end that it didn't fit his character. Instead, I decided to go the OTHER way with John, and make him pissed off. You see, with John, you can realistically go one of two ways with his character at any particular time in the story. You can either make him super strategic and super crafty (like he sees himself, as Richard Hatch). Or you can make him super vindictive and super paranoid (like we saw him during the Gabriel incident in Marquesas). He can go either way, and they both make sense. And in THIS particular scenario, you can pretty much see which direction I decided to go with him. I suddenly saw the potential for a Gabriel incident, Part 2, and, well, I decided to have fun with it. The minute John figured out his good friend Colleen was going behind his back and working against him, I wanted John to be goddamned sure that Colleen found out it was going to hurt. The Marquesas parallels were just too tempting to pass up. So anyway, that's how I decided on the direction of this particular episode. There were a few other factors and quirks and variables along the way, but in essence it was a game of "what if?" that culminated in an homage to one of my favorite episodes of one of my favorite seasons (Marquesas). A) Gretchen makes her deal with Colleen, which is great for Gretchen and Colleen, but maybe not so much for Alicia. And it will work great, so long as Alicia doesn't quite put 2 and 2 together on this. B) Alicia puts 2 and 2 together on this. Her response? Crap. Well she only has one real friend in the game at the moment. Let's go talk to him and see what he thinks. C) Alicia tips John off that there is likely going to be a 3-3 tie tonight. She thinks she's being super sneaky but in essence she's really not. Alicia is really not a very good player. She never has been, either. She is trying to feel John out, but in reality all she's doing is feeding him info. Pretty soon John has figured out everything she is trying to insinuate. D) John goes with his gut and tries to bully Alicia into not taking this deal. What are you, an idiot? No one likes you! How could you beat Colleen? I will admit, I was sort of swayed by the real All-Stars here, and the whole "Alicia is the least deserving person in this cast" slam book challenge. I was sort of basing this entire conversation off of that All-Stars moment, because I was picturing in my head Alicia's "hurt yet proud" face as she heard the results of that challenge. In my mind, I sort of had the idea that Alicia had thought she was well-liked and well-respected up until this moment, but everything she is hearing today is slamming home the fact that she's just a patsy who people think they can beat. In my mind, I was picturing that this was honestly hurting Alicia's feelings a little bit here. As I wrote this, I started to feel bad for her. E) And this was the key moment in the entire episode. How does Alicia react when she realizes she's seen as a pushover by everyone here? How does she respond? After all, you're not talking about just your everyday garden variety character here. You're not talking about someone like Teresa getting her feelings hurt. You're talking about someone who not only sees herself as a badass, but actively tries to project herself out AS a badass to anyone nearby. The fact that Alicia is being pushed around as F2 goat bait is a little humiliating. In my opinion, she wouldn't have seen that coming at all. Up to this point, she had thought she was playing the game well. F) And this is where I came up with the denouement. How does Alicia react to being told that she's not only NOT a badass, but is pretty much the walking definition of the OPPOSITE of a badass? Well she decides to BECOME a badass. This is where she finally becomes (in her mind) what she thought she had been seen as all along. After all, she knows she has just won immunity. There's no way the vote can be turned against her tonight. And she knows she officially has John over the barrel. If she goes along with the Kekos tonight, his chances of winning this game are effectively none. Alicia's not the most hardcore strategist in Survivor history, but she knows that she holds all of the cards at this particular moment. If she wants to, she can pretty much ruin the game for both of them. G) So she comes up with the deal. I'm powerless, you're powerless. But I also know you call most of the shots at Ahi. So here's my deal. Either you promise me a F2, or I take the whole house of cards down and we both lose. I save your ass tonight, and you save my ass from your bitches at the next vote. We're in this together now. You and me. A Keko and an Ahi. What is beautiful is that there is no way John can turn down this deal. He's screwed either way. Just like with Gretchen before, John is now officially in checkmate. SSDW. Same shit, different woman. H) What is Alicia's motivation here? It is "Fuck Gretchen. Fuck Colleen. Fuck all of you. It's time for you people to start taking me seriously as a player." As Stephenie La Grossa once said, "You think I'm a threat? Well now you'll see how threatening I am." If Alicia is going down, much like Gretchen, she is only going down on her terms. The two women are far more similar than they know. continued in part 2.... |
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SenseiKreese |
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EPISODE 11 NOTES - PART 2
---- THE END OF COLLEEN ----
I was sad to lose Colleen at the end of this episode. There's no doubt about it, she was one of my favorite players. But in my mind the benefits of her departure (and in particular, the way it went down) far, far outweighed any of the negatives. Because the direction of this particular episode pretty much opened up everything. EVERYTHING is now a little bit tenser going into the final five. I mean, my goodness, look at all the possible storylines I have waiting for me as we enter the next episode. 1. John is now completely screwed, as he is now caught in a total damned-if-he-does, damned-if-he-doesn't relationship with Alicia. If he turns his back and screws her over, she'll kill him in the jury box. If he takes her to the final two, everyone else will kill him. And then after the game, Sean Rector will likely hunt him down and beat the crap out of him. That's a lot of pressure if you're someone like John. His game went from "really easy" to "really difficult" in a virtual heartbeat. 2. Alicia has suddenly realized that she is nowhere near as feared a badass as she originally thought. How does she react to that? What does a truly angry Alicia really look like? Because you have to realize, all the anger she's ever shown before has pretty much been a front. What does Alicia look like when you REALLY get under her skin? 3. What do Tina and Vecepia do once/if they realize that John might not be as solid an ally as they had been led to believe? How much do they know about his deal with Alicia? Does Alicia suddenly become the target instead of Gretchen? Are the two "former winners" really in as solid a spot as they have assumed up to this point in the game? Is there any way the two of them can ever be broken up? Do the other players realize this? 4. And, most important, here is the big storyline. This is the one that proved to be so irresistible to me as I was writing this episode. What does Gretchen do NOW? I mean, she pretty much gave up last episode and decided to throw in the towel. But it didn't work. In fact not only did it NOT work, she pretty much wound up being single-handedly responsible for Colleen's boot. IT WAS ALL HER FAULT! If you're Gretchen, how do you reconcile that? Where do you go from here? I have a pretty good idea where Gretchen IS going to go from here, but it's a surprise. You'll have to wait until episode 12 to read it. Suffice it to say, I have spent a long time mulling over the next episode as I was driving across the country over the past two weeks, and there indeed may be a few surprises left in store for this story. One day, episode 11 may be called little more than the "setup" chapter.
---- THE RETURNING FAVORITES ----
Oh yeah, before I go, I have to say two things about the "returning favorites" scene during the reward challenge. 1. For YEARS, I have said that Sean Rector was the one character I never wanted to write in a story. I don't know why, but he was always the character that scared me to death to try to write. It was just something about how brash and funny and race-oriented he is in the way he talks. I knew that if I ever tried to capture him in print, I would probably fail and he would sound ridiculous. And I even talked about this in a bunch of my past commentaries. Even though I SHOULD have used Sean in my Alaska story, I didn't. I planned never to use him. More than just about anyone, he was the ONE character I avoided like the plague in any of my stories. So of course then we come to the returning favorites challenge in episode 11. Now keep in mind that in the ORIGINAL version of this story (the 2002 version), Vecepia had been long voted out by this episode. She wasn't in the story anymore at the final six. So she didn't need a returning favorite. But in the 2008 version, she was still here. The story had changed. And who else could ever be her returning favorite? It had to be Sean. Unfortunately it looked like I had to suck up my reservations and write a couple of lines of Sean dialogue for the reward challenge. I didn't like it, but it looked like there was no way around it. And then of course who goes on to win the random selection for my episode 11 reward challenge winner? Duh. Of course Vecepia's name had to come up. Thanks, fate. Love you too. So I was forced to use Sean. I was forced to give him about ten whole pages of dialogue in his scenes back at camp. Ugh. Anyone who has followed my stories at all over the past seven years would know I wasn't looking forward to this. But do you know what? I thought they turned out great! After all my reservations, after all my trepidation, after seven years of being worried sick over writing a character like Sean, he turned out to be way more fun and much easier than I ever imagined. I had a blast writing for him. In fact, if I ever do ANOTHER All-Star story, you can bet your butt that I will finally use him as one of my contestants. He was easily one of the most interesting and nuanced characters I have ever written for. I wish I had written for him sooner. I love my Hawaii Sean!
---- JENNA LEWIS ----
What's the other thing I wanted to mention in my returning favorites scene? Well you know how all of Jenna Lewis' jokes bombed, and how she just talked way too much during her scene on the island? You know how all of the other players seemed a little bit annoyed by her presence there? Well there's an inside joke behind that. In the summer of 2003, I appeared as a featured guest on Rob Cesternino and Jenna Lewis' internet talk show at thefishbowl.com. Rob had me on because he wanted to talk about my All-Star stories (he was a big fan), so he invited me on as a guest on two different occasions. And I have to say, even though I had fun, and even though we shared some good stories, there is one thing I will always remember about being on that talk show. I will always remember how JENNA WOULD NEVER SHUT UP. Seriously. Even though I was the guest, she would just talk right over me. It was ridiculous. I am a soft speaker in general, and I found it almost impossible to get a word in when she was hosting the show. She would just steamroll over everyone. So anyway that's the reason she just goes on and on in this episode and annoys everyone. That was my cathartic revenge. This time, I get the last word in. The writer always wins. Thanks for playing. As Mel Brooks once said... it's good to be the king. Talk to you again after episode 12. No, I don't have a title yet. |
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colleenlover |
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great notes! I still disagree, but great notes.
you've done a terrific job -even if you fucked up the story. (wink) |
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Jeff P3 |
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In fact, if I ever do ANOTHER All-Star story, you can bet your butt that I will finally use him as one of my contestants.I have no choice but to take this opportunity to get my jab in.... Write another All-Star story! Okay, I'm done. |
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SenseiKreese |
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Okay Hawaii episode 11 notes have been posted.
http://www.averdata.net/~locbaseb/hawaii/11notes.htm I'll start work on episode 12 this weekend. Possible working title: "That's not fair!" |
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Kitty Pryde1 |
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Oh my God. I KNEW I didn't come up with the "If you do this, I'll drop out of the final challenge" strategy on my own! And
CL...wow...that's like Colleen getting taken out at the wrong time in the wrong way two times.
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SenseiKreese |
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Yeah that was a storyline I'd had in the back of my head going all the way back to Alaska. I always wanted to have someone make the promise of "if
you do this, then I'll quit for you later." I knew it would be something that hadn't been seen in most stories. When I realized Gretchen had
zero other options at the start of this episode, I figured it was finally time to use it. When did you use it? Did you write it in a story?
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PJMichaelangelo |
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I'm curious to see just how long it takes John to realize he just screwed himself out of the win. And to see his reaction once he does realize it.
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Kitty Pryde1 |
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I tried it in an ORG.
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SenseiKreese |
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John's options in the next episode will be particularly interesting. He's going to face an interesting choice almost right off the bat on day 34.
It's not a choice he has been expecting to face.
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DMC362 |
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Write another All-Star story! I second that be intersting to see what you could do with a larger player pool than you had for your first 3 stories. |
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MarcyPlayground85 |
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I still nominate a story with all 16 winners.
Also, I think Alicia will still win this one. Nothing else makes sense to me. -M |
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SenseiKreese |
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That would sure be interesting.
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PJMichaelangelo |
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MarcyPlayground85 wrote: She's got to win immunity at F5. Something tells me that if she doesn't Vee will make a big push to get rid of her, and maybe use Gretchen to help
her do it. She'd need to persuade Tina to help, but I think she can pull it off.
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Maniacboy888 |
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Posts: 2504 (07/27/08 3:25 PM) Registered user |
So help me god Mario, if you write a story with all 16 winners i will worship you for my whole life.
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SenseiKreese |
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No.
Unless of course Vee or Tina wins Hawaii. Then, maybe. |
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Maniacboy888 |
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Posts: 2506 (07/27/08 10:07 PM) Registered user |
Please write it once you have alot more free time! It would be as awesome as the other stories i love.
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