The Mole - Analysis and Speculation Of The Show in The Mole Forum

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The Mole - Analysis and Speculation Of The Show

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I LUV TIJUANA

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Posts: 10292

(08/05/08 01:21 PM)

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Well, based on what we've seen on the show, I think...

if Nicole is the Mole, Mark wins.
if Craig is the Mole, Nicole wins.
if Mark is the Mole, Craig wins.

Will

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Posts: 29823

(08/05/08 01:40 PM)

Amazing Race Moderator

moovivor wrote:
No, after they did "Who is the Mole," Craig/Mark/Nicole, they showed a montage. The very last shot in the montage was Nicole by the fire in that challenge which then immediately cut to the red thumbprint.

In general, I think Mark is our winner and Craig our Mole. My hope is still that Nicole is either. I'm almost positive Craig is the Mole, but I'm hoping Nicole pulls out a win.

Have faith! The people were in alphabetical order!

SweetSanchez422

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Posts: 31

(08/05/08 05:04 PM)

When Mark is looking through the briefcase... one of the papers says Nicole on the top.... it is when he is sorting the papers. I can't be the only one that saw that. Watch the part when Craig is watching Mark going through the information. Mark sorts the papers and the sun lets us see right through the page. NICOLE. It might be info as to who the mole is ... but you still have to answer the questions on the quiz right...

limnThief

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Posts: 53

(08/05/08 05:18 PM)

Thanks

ShanSlam

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Posts: 102

(08/05/08 06:29 PM)

The Text clue from ABC this week is MAP REC. It has been mainly believed to be the scrambled letters of CAMPER which would indicate Nicole's "Happy Camper" shirt she was wearing.

However, it may actually point to the person that had the MAP to the La REColeta cemetary where Eva Peron is buried. (nod to Gingerman28 at the Reality Fan Forum for this reference.)

That person was Craig. Therefore, if the text clue IS pointing to him, then he is the final player executed.

Goosehead

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Posts: 1009

(08/05/08 06:39 PM)

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what about that intense scene where they focus in, slow motion on Craig watching Mark read the dossier. Was this an epiphany for Craig? He finally realised Mark is the mole? :P

toomanynachos16

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Posts: 316

(08/05/08 08:37 PM)

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So wait, ShanSlam...you think that the text clue is in reference to Craig with a huge stretch of imagination...

...as opposed to Nicole who wore a Camper shirt?

I don't understand the logic. It seems to point to Nicole being the last victim...

rentfan85

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Posts: 470

(08/05/08 08:44 PM)

Needs a Life, STAT

the text clues have never been towards any picec of clothing, but towards the background of that person or a challenge or something associated with that person. Nicole's camper shirt doesn't fit this. It has to be Craig MAP REC. They would have used a medical clue for Nicole or something like that, not camper.

Will

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Posts: 29830

(08/05/08 09:34 PM)

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Just like how 12-45 meant Nicole was leaving in the F4(F5 if you include the mole), right?

Riliss

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Posts: 4080

(08/05/08 10:14 PM)

Ugly on the inside

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a duh

Screerider

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Posts: 22371

(08/06/08 10:45 AM)

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rentfan85 wrote:
the text clues have never been towards any picec of clothing, but towards the background of that person or a challenge or something associated with that person. Nicole's camper shirt doesn't fit this. It has to be Craig MAP REC. They would have used a medical clue for Nicole or something like that, not camper.

Interesting thing to state, as we still don't know the solutions to #4 and #8. Also, Liz wore heart-shaped earings when the clue was "HEART". Same thing as a shirt reference to me.

EP	CLUE	BOOT	EXECUTEE
1	NIC@IT	Marcie	Not In Challenge @ Initial Task
2	Heart	Liz	Wore heart-shaped earrings
3	Grapes	Bobby (Ali bribed)	Bobby had grape seed massage
4	EPISODE 3: cf(11)8	Victoria	???
5	CHNO 111738	Kristen	C11H17N3O8 is tetrodotoxin.
6	X13421	Alex	The finger arrangment on a guitar for Bb minor
7	EP: 1245	Clay	Firing temperature for certain glazes ("EP"?)
8	EP8: 00711	Paul	???
9	MAP REC	???	Nicole wearing "Happy Camper" t-shirt Craig has Map to La Recoleta Cemetery

And I'm not sure I'd consider Bobby's grape massage as being part of a Mission. It's a stretch... as is Marcie's Mission-related clue, since she actually was part of the Mission. She just didn't go over the falls.

Last Edited By: Screerider 08/06/08 10:54 AM. Edited 1 times.

ShanSlam

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Posts: 103

(08/06/08 11:01 AM)

toomanynachos16 wrote:
So wait, ShanSlam...you think that the text clue is in reference to Craig with a huge stretch of imagination...

...as opposed to Nicole who wore a Camper shirt?

I don't understand the logic. It seems to point to Nicole being the last victim...

I don't think there is too much imagination needed to see that MAP and REColeta are part of the same theme.

Also, I'm not saying this is absolute proof, either. The text clue very well may be CAMPER all jumbled up.

Then, when you throw in the Widget clue 7..26..52 (which is the day Eva Peron died) things really get interesting! Craig is the one who went to her crypt (in La Recoleta cemetary) but Evita closely matches Nicole in that they are both young women that are/were 33 years old.

Personally, I think this points that both Craig and Nicole are either the Winner or the Runner-up...leaving Mark as the Mole. Here's why:

The Text clue has always pointed to the next executed and both Craig and Nicole could be the target for that clue.

The Widget clues intent has not been clearly defined, but I think that since it has previously pointed to groups of players instead of a specific individual, that it is more likely narrowing down the players to reveal the Winner. So, the widget is also possibly targeting either Craig or Nicole.

Mark, who has never had a Widget target him for all 9 episodes (that anyone has discovered to this day) seems to be oddly untouched by these clues. You may say what about when they used his journal for the ep6 Widget. Well, Mark wasn't the target of that clue. It was Alex, Clay, & Paul who were then executed in that order.

Therefore, because of his lack of involvement with these clues, I think that points to Mark being the Mole.

Screerider

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Posts: 22373

(08/06/08 11:18 AM)

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Well if the Widgets point to the Mole, than there'd be 11 Players who've never had a Widget point to them. Doesn't make Mark so special then.

<LINK TO "E_E_E_" WIDGET NOT FOUND?>

And Mark has been tied to these Widgets before. The very first one, for example, brought these two posts:

ColonelBird wrote:
E_E_E_

ElEvEn

We saw the number 11 in the show.

Mark the soccer coach was 11th over the waterfall.

11 people in a soccer game.

During elimination there were 11 people, as one was away on the island.

Game on.

Clues point to Mark.

ShanSlam wrote:

cindidindi76 wrote:
Not to mention, two 1's = 11. Back to that stupid eleven.

Two 1's also equals "two"...at least when using Roman Numerals - II

Mark is the number 2 player in each episode's Intro.

More suggested Mark connections were: Widget #2 pointed to Craig, Mark, and Nicole (Group A). Widget #3 had folks pointing out the there were 666 verses in Mark. Widget #6 came from Mark's Journal.

ShanSlam

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Posts: 104

(08/06/08 11:47 AM)

Screerider wrote:
Well if the Widgets point to the Mole, than there'd be 11 Players who've never had a Widget point to them. Doesn't make Mark so special then...

I think you are agreeing with me here...right? You think the widgets probably DON'T point to the Mole?

And you are free to try to show that Mark has a widget, but over the last 8 weeks the concerted efforts of all the other camps have decisively shown that none of the widgets directly targeted him.

The ep2 widget you selected as an example is probably the oldest clue that has never had a satisfactory solution to it. People go back to revisit it on occassion but no interpretation has ever been widely accepted. Therefore, this falls into the area of unknowns that it's possible might point to Mark, but just as likely (and more probably) don't.

And that was the case in those posts you pulled out about the E_E_E widget that ColonelBird and I posted many weeks ago. They were just possibilities we presented, but the other camps have soundly proven them to be otherwise. The ep1 Widget was pointing to Craig as owner of the #11 journal and the 11th person in the intro.

Ultimately, I could say that all 9 widgets spell out LAMBRECHT in some convoluted reasoning, yet that doesn't make it so. Pulling up past posts that I (or ColonelBird) have stated about what a clue may mean doesn't prove anything except that you are good at pulling up past posts. They were just possibilities we presented at the time that have since been shown to be incorrect.

All I can say is that you can't be right all the time. We were wrong in this instance.

Screerider

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Posts: 22375

(08/06/08 12:08 PM)

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ShanSlam wrote:
I think you are agreeing with me here...right? You think the widgets probably DON'T point to the Mole?

No. I think they do point to the Mole. They match TV clues, which I also assume point to the Mole. I'm only pointing out that if they do point to the Mole, that none of them indicating Mark, or any of the Players, would be expected.

They were just possibilities we presented, but the other camps have soundly proven them to be otherwise.

Proven?

Show me this so-called "proof".

ShanSlam

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Posts: 105

(08/06/08 12:22 PM)

Screerider wrote:

They were just possibilities we presented, but the other camps have soundly proven them to be otherwise.
Proven? Show me this so-called "proof".

Isn't chanting over and over by the masses that "Mark Is Not The Mole" proof enough?

The overwhelming mindset has been that anything which might even hint at Mark being the mole is soundly discounted before it is even considered (even in this case where you are now actually wanting to show that a widget points to Mark despite the fact that you think these clues point to the Mole, which can't be Mark because there is no way he could be the Mole.)

What a conundrum you find yourself in.

Screerider

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Posts: 22376

(08/06/08 12:43 PM)

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Well, I don't know if Mark is the Mole or not. I suppose your reaction is typical of one being constantly beset by absolutists. Folks using "never" and "proof" and such. I here ya.

But I'm merely trying to understand how you have "proof" that "E_E_E_" is tied to Craig (11th in the intro, Journal #11) and not, say, Mark (11th over the falls). At this point, we don't know.

Unless you're using Spoiler info, in which case, please don't post spoilers here. We don't want to know that a Clue has been spoiled to be for a particular contestant. Spec only.

Your conundrum's a bit more dire, I think. Here, you've allegedly got proof that the Widgets point to Craig. We've also tied the Widget Clues to TV Clues, so now we know Widget Clues and TV Clues point to the same person (Craig). Text Clues apparently point to the Executed. So who do the Widget and TV Clues both point to? Winner or Mole? If Winner, where are the Mole clues? Oh! I know! "I lie with my eyes." Is that intended to be the only Mole Clue for the entire season? And a shitload of Winner Clues... for the first time.

If they're Mole Clues, well, problem solved, as far as I'm concerned. They give us Clues who the Mole is on TV. And now, not surprisingly, with the Widgets too. I do find the Text Clues pointing to boots as unexpected this season, as it's also the first time. But it's less obnoxious to digest than the fundamental shift from providing a boatload of Mole Clues to a boatload of Winner Clues.

Anyhow, as a believer that Craig is the Mole, I'm glad to hear there's proof of it out there. Still, I'd have prefered to wait until the Reveal to find that out.

StarRider

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Posts: 18291

(08/06/08 01:06 PM)

600 CLUES

ShanSlam

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Posts: 106

(08/06/08 01:29 PM)

Screerider wrote:
...I'm merely trying to understand how you have "proof" that "E_E_E_" is tied to Craig (11th in the intro, Journal #11) and not, say, Mark (11th over the falls). At this point, we don't know.

Unless you're using Spoiler info, in which case, please don't post spoilers here. We don't want to know that a Clue has been spoiled to be for a particular contestant. Spec only.

SPOILER information? Me...have Spoiler info?

Unfortunately, in this case, I am just relying on the same official clues as everyone else. It is just more of a conscious effort on my part to defer to those who appear to be more insightful and clever for these type of clues than I am. They have repeated the "Craig as Widget solution" consensus over and over so much that most believe it now. I'm just going with the herd mentality of these Widget clues. They must know what they are talking about, right?

Screerider wrote:
Your conundrum's a bit more dire, I think. Here, you've allegedly got proof that the Widgets point to Craig. We've also tied the Widget Clues to TV Clues, so now we know Widget Clues and TV Clues point to the same person (Craig). Text Clues apparently point to the Executed. So who do the Widget and TV Clues both point to? Winner or Mole? If Winner, where are the Mole clues? Oh! I know! "I lie with my eyes." Is that intended to be the only Mole Clue for the entire season? And a shitload of Winner Clues... for the first time.

If they're Mole Clues, well, problem solved, as far as I'm concerned. They give us Clues who the Mole is on TV. And now, not surprisingly, with the Widgets too. I do find the Text Clues pointing to boots as unexpected this season, as it's also the first time. But it's less obnoxious to digest than the fundamental shift from providing a boatload of Mole Clues to a boatload of Winner Clues.

We now arrive at the crux of the issue.

Has there been a fundamental change in the show as the producers have created it this season? Did they turn the previous ways of presenting the clues to the public on its head and created a whole new category of clues with their own intent and design?

They did make a new innovation by creating the junk clues with the Text Messages. These are only good for a few hours and then are rendered pointless once the player indicated in their solution is executed. These indirectly point to the Mole's identity by slowly eliminating the players one at a time. However, they eventually fail at the end to reveal who the Mole is because there will still be two people standing after the last Text clue is given.

Since they made one new subset of clues, it is possible they also created a second set with the Widgets that just might point to the Winner instead of the Mole. So far, the intent of the clues hasn't been conclusively figured out. If the producers HAVE stayed with a traditional view of the show, then most likely the Widgets would point to the Mole.

However, I've been leaning more to the possibility that Scott Stone (after years of planning this season) has revamped the clue dissemination and has thrown some major twists to hide the Mole's identity. They have overloaded the fan base with clues this season and muddied the waters so that no one really can point to that specific SPOILER that declares who the Mole is. They apparently learned their lesson with fan's response to the AdMiRal and "Bill Is The Mole" clues from season 2.

Also, I'm sure they still have the traditional clues revealed within the episodes since most of the viewers don't go on the internet and take part in the online stuff. Those people need a way to play along, too.

So it comes down to belief. Do you believe that we are seeing a tradional Mole season play out? Or do you believe that there has been major changes in the intent of the revealed clues?

Of course, none of this matters after August 11th. (Doh! there's that 11 again!)

Last Edited By: ShanSlam 08/06/08 01:31 PM. Edited 1 times.

Screerider

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(08/06/08 02:05 PM)

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ShanSlam wrote:
They have repeated the "Craig as Widget solution" consensus over and over so much that most believe it now. I'm just going with the herd mentality of these Widget clues. They must know what they are talking about, right?

Not anymore that those suggesting Mark is "E_E_E_" because he went 11th over the falls. It's still too early to claim no Widgets point to Mark and use that as a Clue suggesting Mark is "special"... The Winner? The Mole? Final 3? A Crybaby?

Has there been a fundamental change in the show as the producers have created it this season? Did they turn the previous ways of presenting the clues to the public on its head and created a whole new category of clues with their own intent and design?

Okay.. suppose the Widgets point to the Winner and the Text Clues point to the Executed. You'd then say, that from "E_E_E_", you think the Winner is Craig. You also think, that from "MAP REC", that he's the next boot. Yeah?

Also, I'm sure they still have the traditional clues revealed within the episodes since most of the viewers don't go on the internet and take part in the online stuff. Those people need a way to play along, too.

And that's it. Would they really change The Mole for casual TV viewers who'd like to "play along" at home, embedding Clue after Clue in each and every episode, convincing folks that Craig is the Mole, only to point out at the end that, he's the Winner, they were all in fact Winner Clues, and that there were not any Mole Clues at all. ZERO. NADA.

Only if they hadn't been constantly asking the us "Who is The Mole?", and had actually been asking "Who is The Winner?" over and over, I could see that scenario being the case.

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The Mole - Analysis and Speculation Of The Show