S-17 Edgic (editing and logic) Gabon

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tropical rain		#761	[-]
Posts: 177 (10/06/08 1:52 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	This is my edgic chart that I just made... Many thanks to the wonderful guatemala fanfic for explaining printscreening to me... Thank you! :) Though I used the first two episodes from the original votes casts, I'm going to put only my edgic ratings on episode three and beyond. By the way, this was a ton of fun to make. XD I changed my winner choices, so I thought I would explain them. Marcus: Um... Same reasons as before. Complex, not too visible, and a great winners edit. Charlie: I realized how good his edit was once I looked at the chart. I think he has a good mix of edgic ratings so far. Corinne: Even with the UTR start, she's gotten a lot of good screentime. Crytstal: I hate to count her out yet. She's been playing a good game, and I think that she is the best pick to win from the Fang tribe.
unduli clone		#762	[-]
Posts: 3017 (10/06/08 2:58 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	OnlyTheHunter wrote: Winners can start UTR, but that borderline UTR1 thing in episode 1 has proven to be death. I think unduli and I are cloning are opinions again. Corrine was, for me, clearly an UTR with a meaningful edit in episode 1. Marcus, Corrine. Corrine, Marcus. Michael Mhm, pretty much. I think an UTRM would've been more reflective of Corinne in EP1, not because she had tone editing, but because it wasn't some normal UTR. Ah well, as long as we remember the episode and don't just look at the chart, we can still view the "big picture." As far as Corinne is concerned, I'm somewhat in accordance with craig. Her pre-show material made her to be some uber-bitch, the second coming of Jerri, but her tone has been handled with care, and we have some good SPV from Charlie as to Corinne's gaming potential. Marcus seems to fit the mold of a Yul or Earl winner edit rather well, but Corinne could easily develop something here, and her edit has nuances to definitely watch. Marcus is straight-forward and as such will remain top on my list, but Corinne is the one on the top of my to-watch list for the moment. I also have to agree with craig that Crystal wasn't MORP. The P that she earned was a P directed toward the Fang tribe, not to her individually. She was merely the mouth of Fang that was able to interact with the underdog thing, but she, personally, was never highlighted as a P individual or edited as such. Oh well, that's why we keep our own charts, I suppose.
scepticA		#763	[-]
Posts: 1398 (10/06/08 3:04 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Thank you KP and OTH for stressing how Randy wasn't Mixed ("dynamic") this week. Where oh where was the P to offset the negativity? Either his admittedly snide commentary about his fellow tribesmates was N or it was neutral. Even if it was 100% accurate (IMO it was) it could still be N (IMO it was) it doesn't make it dynamic or mixed. His confrontation with GC was also either N or neutral. I think some here are confusing solid, accurate commentary with dynamics. As astute as Randy was, it wasn't ever ever P. I'd give him a "good" N - and see my note of a few days ago for a description of the term. But M is so far off base I'm perplexed.
9RedWing19		#764	[-]
Posts: 2235 (10/06/08 3:06 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Not that it matters cause she ain't winning, but I don't understand the CP votes for Sugar. It would have been difficult to stuff any more cliches into her screen time (I mean, does anyone seriously think that there were crocodiles lurking in the stream that she crossed to find the HII). IMO, this is a classic example of the type of blatant manipulation that one finds in an OTT edit (because in real life most everyone is complex).
Warrior		#765	[-]
Posts: 2660 (10/06/08 3:19 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	guatemala fanfic wrote: I guess all of the Close-Calls are decided for this week then. Thanks, flf! You saved me from having to type up a big post about Sugar. :) Close Calls are not over until Wednesday. I would like to know how Sugars edit was anything but OTT. Her visibility was over 4 times the episode average… that's reeks OTT. 5 people gave her a PP. (I should have but didn't) 3 people gave her a CPPP...isn't that an oxymoron?...if a player has that much tone that reeks OTT In the begining of the episode she tells us that she has a thing with Ace. Then on to the Idol. Let's see... she was in the jungle alone and there is an elephant in the bushes with her... that's an editing OTT! Then when she was in the jungle pulling her buff down that damn elephant was there agian stairing at her...that's an editing OTT! Then she tells us that her Father just past. Then she gets in the warer and there is a croc waiting for her...that's an editing OTT! She finds the idol! Returning we get the "I didn't send you clip" with Jeff...that's OTT. Confessional #2 she says she has the Idol...we know. At T.C. we hear that she just lost her Father...We know that's OTT! Sugar should be OTTPP5! Last Edited By: Warrior 10/06/08 3:48 PM. Edited 1 times.
Warrior		#766	[-]
Posts: 2661 (10/06/08 3:21 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	9RedWing19 wrote: Not that it matters cause she ain't winning, but I don't understand the CP votes for Sugar. It would have been difficult to stuff any more cliches into her screen time (I mean, does anyone seriously think that there were crocodiles lurking in the stream that she crossed to find the HII). IMO, this is a classic example of the type of blatant manipulation that one finds in an OTT edit (because in real life most everyone is complex). Ahhh...great minds thing alike!
unduli clone		#767	[-]
Posts: 3019 (10/06/08 3:44 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	^ Bravo! Sugar was classic OTTP in my opinion. She was a heroine, a character that we all love and root for. We got to know her a bit, thanks to her incomparable screentime and mentioning her father's death, but the editing was setting her up as a one-note classic hero whom we love. As far as the PP, I had to argue against it since she was associated with Ace and even shown as being played by him a tiny bit. I thought that was enough to offset the PP. And I agree with Warrior - there is no such thing as CPPP. PP or NN should be used exclusively with OTT.
OnlyTheHunter		#768	[-]
Posts: 1683 (10/06/08 4:09 PM) Edgician Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	And I agree with Warrior - there is no such thing as CPPP. PP or NN should be used exclusively with OTT. I will never agree with that. Someone is CP, or OTT. Great. Someone is pushed to be so Positive that is is beyond arguable, that's PP. Tone and Rating and Visibility are separate, and should be. It's highly unlikely that an intentional walk will produce anything besides a walk, but you have to throw four pitches anyway, and a wild pitch or swing may ensue. Just because something often goes together doesn't require it to be exclusive. Keep Rating, Tone and Visibility separate. I just don't agree with that one. And I was a CPPP voter, incidentally. I can't argue against OTT, though, I think both have merit, Warrior gives a great case for OTT. PP is a fair rating for Tone in this case, P of course is too. One is not required to go with the other. Again, she ain't winning, but rank the three items independently, please. Michael Last Edited By: OnlyTheHunter 10/06/08 8:51 PM. Edited 1 times.
craig		#769	[-]
Posts: 14130 (10/06/08 4:20 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	3 people gave her a CPPP...isn't that an oxymoron?...if a player has that much tone that reeks OTT I'd argue that Danni was CP PP at F6 in Guatemala, but it's pretty rare. Sugar wasn't that. You have to be really strategic. Her long exile scene was shades of Steph on the one-person tribe. Last Edited By: craig 10/06/08 4:24 PM. Edited 1 times.
OnlyTheHunter		#770	[-]
Posts: 1684 (10/06/08 4:42 PM) Edgician Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	By my count on page 1 (I'm at work, skimmed it) a CPPP has happened once - Stephenie in Palau, in the episode where Bobby Jon lost the fire challenge to her. Rare, yes. Oxymoron? No. A PP itself is incredibly rare. That's okay too. Michael
BlakeB717		#771	[-]
Posts: 979 (10/06/08 5:15 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I'm sorry but did we get Episode 4 already? So how would you know it's in the recap for next week that they showcase Ken beating Bob? Even so, that doesn't factor into the ratings for the episode in which Ken was INVISIBLE. In the RECAP (of the first and second episodes before the theme song) they said Ken the Videogamer, Bob the Physics teacher, and Crystal the Olympian. They reminded us of their occupations, which made Ken beating Bob memorable in the challenge. You should really look into what I wrote before jumping to a "wtf"-conclusion. It does not help Ken's winner chances, though. It's just the appropriate rating. I agree that Sugar was CPP, we got into her head completely and learned about her character, which goes beyond the 1-dimentional distraction edit of OTT.
danyul0911		#772	[-]
Posts: 34 (10/06/08 5:25 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Personally, I thought that Sugar was OTTPP5 as well, but I don't differentiate OTT and PP. Someone could very well be CPPP or CPNN, though they are extremely rare. But in this case, I think Sugar was portrayed as the one note heroine who luckily found the immunity idol and is getting over the loss of her dad through this journey. She didnt really tell us how she planned on using the idol or why she told Ace about it, so that's where I dont think we got into her head. We did hear about her background but that to me does not warrant CP since its not in the moment.
guatemala fanfic		#773	[-]
Posts: 3833 (10/06/08 5:29 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Close Calls are not over until Wednesday. I would like to know how Sugars edit was anything but OTT. Sure, I will be happy to make a post tomorrow defending why I gave Sugar CP.
colleenlover		#774	[-]
Posts: 8527 (10/06/08 5:46 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	CP is just as fake as OTT. All it means is scope and ties to later in the story. Whatever they did with Sugar's trek would be irrelevant, it's the other stuff that would add up to a complex story character for a thematic payoff. The "dumb" stuff would be more telling. She comments on this -but it really isn't craftd for manipulation from the other characters to get the payoff down the line -it seems more like the card she was playing in real life. Let's say Sugar won, well then what could change based on the reality of this episode? There was plenty to work with- lots of talk from the others about Ace wanting to drag her to the end for the easy win, sellected for exhile because she would crumble. A more traditional CP edit to deal with this then would be players sizing her up more than Ace. Confessionals about Sugar's approach to this game, and most likely her thoughts on Ace. It was all there but not as concretely presented as a threat or warning like Eliza said of Parvati. I don't think this really matters though in the grand scheme of things. Sugar most likely is going to be a crafted character but probably falls short of the endgame.
9RedWing19		#775	[-]
Posts: 2236 (10/06/08 6:00 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	OnlyTheHunter wrote: By my count on page 1 (I'm at work, skimmed it) a CPPP has happened once - Stephenie in Palau, in the episode where Bobby Jon lost the fire challenge to her. Rare, yes. Oxymoron? No. A PP itself is incredibly rare. That's okay too. Michael Steph actually "should" have been CPPP in the subsequent episode (when she went to Koror) - I had my biggest Edgic fight ever with CC over that rating ... Ahh, the good old days. Does anyone know if CC is permanently banned?
unduli clone		#776	[-]
Posts: 3020 (10/06/08 6:22 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Well, I suppose it has happened. I didn't Edgic that episode of Palau, so I've never seen a CPPP or CPNN (I think the only PP/NN I've seen was Stacy, but I may be mistaken). I guess it could be possible, but in my mindset anything edited to the point of PP or NN would be a hero or villain beyond shades of CP. But I'm rarely right. Is CC really banned? I loved her. I thought she was banned but came back.
fat little fingers		#777	[-]
Posts: 5633 (10/06/08 7:32 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Warrior: Close Calls are not over until Wednesday. I stand chastised. I knew I'd spoken too fast. Warrior, Red Wing, colleenlover, you all make the point that a key ingredient of CP is that it relate to the end-game and the character's relationship to it. My reason for giving Sugar CPP was, her EI scenes had much of the same themes as Cirie's fishing scene in Exile Island. Triumphing over fears, etc. She also explained her relationship to Ace, though we're shown that she intends to hide behind him and let him "protect" her. I agree, the SPV described her as a pawn in Ace's plans, rather than any real end-game role she may have had. I also see how her EI scenes are similar in tone to Rupert's "I'm no Superman" scene in ASS. The episode he recieved an OTT. gf, you're going to have to give your explanation after all. I'm way too Richie Cunningham on this one.
Dictatorship		#778	[-]
Posts: 4493 (10/06/08 8:16 PM) Crying my eyes out and shaking so much :( Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Sugar's edit was OTTPP. CPPP doesn't even make sense to me. How can someone be PP and not be the "hero" of the episode? Sugar was not crafted in a complex sense at all. OTT moments- -"They think I'm done, but they've never talked with me" (America's blond angel. Tough cookie) -She took the clue instantly because "that's what she's there for!" (the underdog trooper who does the right thing - OTTP) -"I came in here knowing nothing and I'm learning pretty fast giggle" (NOT CP) -Femininity about crossing the infested swamp was a huge OTTP moment, even accompanied by a squeal. -Histrionics about Dad's death ( ). TWICE. Textbook OTTP! -Returning from Exile with that darned sweet smile - hugs the girls. Note: any strategy that Sugar discussed was only to aid others - it wasn't for her own complexity. Combo with Ace? That'll come into play later on and needs to be shown for the show. Funny thing is that we weren't given Sugar's outlook on showing Ace the HII - that came from his POV. She's an addition to his game and will stay that way throughout IMO. Weak at challenges? That was only to aid Paloma's story and an explanation on why So and So sat out of challenges. There was nothing complex from Sugar's time in Exile, and that was practically all we were shown of her. "Hi, I'm Sugar Haskell, OTTP sweetheart of Gabon."
MasterDarkNinja		#779	[-]
Posts: 2789 (10/06/08 8:37 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	GC Brown UTR (29.2%), MOR (45.8%), OTT (25%) I still say OTTN is the right rating for him, but since that's not an option I'll go with MORN, even though that's wrong to. Sugar Kiper CP (50%), OTT (50%) OTTP for sure. Paloma Soto-Castillo CP (12.5%), MOR (54.2%), OTT (33.3%) She was something between CP and OTT, which is MOR. Randy Bailey NN (4.2%), N (50%), neutral (45.8%), P (0%), PP (0%)(note: 6 out of 11 neutral votes were for dynamic) He wasn't M this week, he was a N complainer with no redeeming factor
colleenlover		#780	[-]
Posts: 8528 (10/06/08 8:44 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I disagree with some of that. And I think it's a point that is valid -that we are also possibly falling into with someone like Randy. You can't change the persona outrightly of a contestant. You can hide it and not show it. But if it's providing game relevent information -such as Sugar's perky demeanor while searching for the idol, or Randy's crumudgeon while possibly providing the sound byte for a crucial plot point, we can't be blinded by what type of person is saying it. Again, if Sugar won we'd still get the same insert of the giggle, etc. OTTP and CPP are not mutually exclusive for an audience member. The craft of wanting to root for the CPP is still there and they are meant to be loveable/likeable. The difference is that the CP is also layering something down for the long haul and not just the immediate -think of the CP as a character with personal crucial foreshadowing. (Richard is still the OTTN creep that the general audience will have the same feelings as they would for Jerri, but subtly groundwork has been laid for something down the line). Therefore (for me) someone like Sugar is on the fence for me in determining being a winner (based only on this episode) because a lack of the layering. Right now I'm buying that she's supposed to be likeable, but unsure how crucial it will be to the story. Whereas with Charlie, Marcus, and Corrine -I KNOW something will happen that will be building and growing for the endgame.

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S-17 Edgic (editing and logic) Gabon

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