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colleenlover |
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And I like the DVD picture line. Not because it has to fall in place with our knowledge of what happened to marketing, but because it seems like a reference
to a personal conversation they had- there's ambiguity to it. We the reader/viewers won't know all their secrets, talks etc -and it could make the
final edit. We'd be asking what the hell did he mean by that.
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YemaGrl1988 |
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Damn! That was good. That's all I have to say.
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SenseiKreese |
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Thanks for the comments everyone. Glad you like it. And why would they ask questions about strategy, anyway? This is All-Stars. Like you said, they all have
an agenda. Strategy doesn't mean jack shit at the final TC most of the time. I think in All-Stars that would especially be the case.
Oh come on, man. Switch it. Make Colleen go last. Gretchen's just going to talk about the land, respect, integrity. Colleen can let it fly and let on that she knew a lot more. And she can pull the story together about the Vee/Colleen dance, and the comment John made on the trip, "it's just a game and besides Vee's winning anyway." Gretchen is going last for a reason. I have specifically timed it that way because her interaction with the jurors is going to be important. That's all I'm saying. When you read it, you will know why I am putting her last. Although on the show, you know they would edit it to show that Alicia goes last. |
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colleenlover |
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No, I'm agreeing. I'm disappointed they aren't asking questions on strategy, not you not making them ask questions. The characters should take on
a life of their own, and like you said, they're not interested in that. Although, Colleen might.
LOL -no way that Alicia question would go last. It went over like a lead balloon. Which I think is great. I'm going to say this right now, I have no idea who will win. Not that the winner matters, it's the journey. But I'd lean towards Vee, but I am not confident. So, that's really good writing. The surprise will be natural instead of forced. |
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cardswin5 |
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I loved that. Especially Boston Rob and John mocking Alicia during her own question. At this point I would be happy with either one of the final 2 winning.
The next juror to come up to the podium was the strong, silent ex-military man from Keko, Frank Garrison.Just because I noticed it and I'm an anal person Frank came from Ahi. |
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SenseiKreese |
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Perfect, thanks for catching that. That's the sort of little detail that I miss sometimes.
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Maniacboy888 |
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I was reading an episode from Alaska where i read this quote:
Greg's heart suddenly lurched. He had planned all along around the fact that the tiebreaker would be purple rock. That had been the key to his plan. Paschal would switch due to fear of random selection. They used it in the All-Stars before, why not now?You switched it out of Hawaii so i guess Greg was talking about the Hawaii original?
Last Edited By: Maniacboy888
10/05/08 1:41 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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SenseiKreese |
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Ha ha, yep I did. There was an episode in the original All-Star Hawaii where Jeff threatened the players with the purple rock. Nice catch. Hope nobody else
catches that. :)
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TheLurkerSpeaks |
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Good writing as usual even where I disagree with the characterization.
Personally, I can't see Frank as Penny redux, worrying about someone not bothering to get to know him. And there's obviously two sides to that - Frank probably never approached Vee either. Again, I can't really see this bothering him very much although perhaps he just felt he needed to say something. Vee could have called him on the hypocrisy, but it isn't her style to be combative. Does Frank accept John's explanation? Who knows? I agree Frank would remain stonefaced and give no hint away. I was a bit surprised that Rob went so hard on Vee, but the way it was written suggests he did so to force Vee to be a little more assertive. Not claiming to be the best player could hurt her with some (Kathy, for instance, though she'd never get her vote anyway), but it leaves open the issue of who she does think played better that someone has to ask - maybe Gretchen? My guess would be Tina if Vee is being honest rather than modest. John blowing off Rob, just like his blowing off Alicia, makes sense, and the odds of him getting either vote were low to begin with. I do wonder how that plays with the other jurors though (but the only jurors up for grabs in my opinion are Frank, Colleen, and Gretchen, none of whom are going to feel too sorry for Rob or Alicia). We got more or less what I expected from Tina and Kathy who presented the two sides of the former winner coin. Kathy's deluded if she thinks she's being objective, but that's irrelevant to the vote. I do wonder if Tina and Vee may be laying it on a bit thick about the winners having no chance. If they have no chance, then why vote for them? The main audience for this argument is Gretchen, and I still don't know how she'll respond. John led with his argument about being there to win, not to make friends. That clearly struck a chord with Kathy, but I wonder how that comes across to Colleen. To paraphrase, "Colleen, all that time I spent making friends with you was purely a means to winning the game. When I pretended not to care about the game, I was lying, and I was using you." Worse, this coincides with the callous comments he made when tossing her out of the game. I think Colleen really does not want to vote for Vee so she's still a possibility for John, but he's digging a hole and he better handle her question well if he wants out of it. |
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SenseiKreese |
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The point of the Frank section isn't that he didn't get to know Vee. The point is that he is either voting for John, or against John. Frank
couldn't really care less about Vee. The only reason he even brought up the whole "Who are you?" argument is because I had nothing else for him
to say. Seriously, I don't think Vee and Frank had a single interaction at any point in the story. So either he says that, or he just says nothing to
her. I opted for the first version because I wanted to show him as having a sense of humor. I prefer my Frank to be awkward and funny. He laughs at his own
jokes, even if nobody else laughs.
Last Edited By: SenseiKreese
10/06/08 11:49 AM.
Edited 1 times.
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SenseiKreese |
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John led with his argument about being there to win, not to make friends. That clearly struck a chord with Kathy, but I wonder how that comes across to Colleen. To paraphrase, "Colleen, all that time I spent making friends with you was purely a means to winning the game. When I pretended not to care about the game, I was lying, and I was using you." Worse, this coincides with the callous comments he made when tossing her out of the game. I think Colleen really does not want to vote for Vee so she's still a possibility for John, but he's digging a hole and he better handle her question well if he wants out of it. Yeah the Colleen section is really the trickiest one for me to write, which is why I have been sitting on it for two days and trying to think about it. I really want to get the tone right between these two characters because, like you said, she is very much one of the "up in the air" votes at the moment. From a writing standpoint, this will be one of the most crucial interactions in the entire story. |
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SenseiKreese |
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Okay I added the final two jurors. Colleen might be a little confrontational for my liking, but we'll see how it looks for now and I might change it a bit
in the final draft. I don't know, what do you think?
I won't change the Gretchen section. That's exactly the way I wanted it to come out. There is a reason I saved her for last. All that I have left to do now is write the closing arguments. http://www.averdata.net/~...aseb/hawaii/day_39_wc.htm |
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TheLurkerSpeaks |
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Wow. John does handle Colleen, and he probably gets her vote, but then he completely falls apart under Gretchen's questioning. Admitting to saying
whatever people want to hear in front of the jury is not at all a good tactic, and I would imagine Frank at least would take notice in addition to Gretchen.
Colleen, having gotten the apology she wanted, probably won't want to consider that John was faking it, but the admission proves John is at least as fake
as Vee.
Vee may be too passive for her own good. She didn't really counter the accusations of Frank, Colleen, and Kathy at all, and her claim of dragging John could have used some supporting detail. It seems she has decided that arguing details with people is a losing battle. She figures she has three near certain votes and only needs one of the three tossups (though she probably would concede Colleen at this point) so odds are in her favor. Closing arguments? Vee probably needs to at least address the perception that she's aloof and "fake". Her best course may be just to admit that she hung back from some people to reduce risk of being targeted. As to being "fake", all she can claim is that she's sorry that others may feel that way, but that doesn't represent who she is as a person. Even Colleen might find out differently if she hadn't kept up a wall the whole game. As for how she dragged John, point out how she was the center of the Ahi alliance, which would have fallen apart without her. Not only did she reach out to pull John into the core alliance, she rescued the alliance when Tina considered defecting to the Kekos. John's responsibility was to keep Colleen in line, and he couldn't even do that! (Vee probably wouldn't mention that, however.) John needs to repair the damage from his response to Gretchen's question. He needs to insist that the game was over once it dropped to Final 2 so he's not giving out BS now. (I don't know how to make that believable, but he's got to try.) He'll also have to counter the claim that Vee dragged him by giving details, and I expect he will start listing things like voting out Alicia and Gretchen and deciding to vote out Lex in the first place. His problem will be finding anything midgame to hang his hat on since he spent that portion of the game riding Vee's coattails more than he probably even realized at the time. But if the facts are against him, perceptions are still in his favor so he'll probably try to make a joke of Vee's reputation as a tagalong. (Kathy and Colleen at least will appreciate it.) |
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YemaGrl1988 |
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Damn, Gretchen's question made an epic moment in the game. I loved it.
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lalalakers |
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Loved it.
Agree with Lurker that Frank wouldn't be so harsh on Vee, but I can accept it if he's trying to joke. John stood up remarkably well to the onslaught, wasn't as bad as I imagined it would be. Vee definitely should highlight that she was the one who kept John, Tina, and Rob together throughout the post-merge game. Vote predictions: Obvious votes, Tina, Rob, and Alicia for Vee, Kathy for John. Tossups: Frank - As a man who values loyalty over anything else, someone "trying as hard as he can" to win the game is of little importance. Count also that Vee, for all her slipperiness, was one of the most loyal people in this game. Votes for Vee. Colleen - Someone who can apologize and talk fast can get back in her good books. Case in point, Boston Rob over and over again. She may still be mad now, but she her dislike of Vee is much more permanent. Votes John. Gretchen - Hasn't Gretchen been the one constantly evolving throughout the game? The one who was voting based soley on merit and refusing alliances in the beginning came all the way around to being a hardcore player at the end. Fitting, then, that she manage to get past her other bias against former winners to recognize the better player in the end. Votes Vee. 5-2 win for Vee. |
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colleenlover |
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She's not going to tell someone she's creeped out by them on national tv, or tell them she hates them, she'll be respectful of their outside life
reputation. She acomplished that with her eye-roll to Rich. I think it's too much and would be more effective writing to accomplish that with subtext
instead of the spoken word. The viewer's pick up on that instead.
Gretchen's moment is very good. But did she make this statement about never voting for a previous winner? I've stopped scanning every sentence of this new version. Or was it a clean slate moment to achieve a dramatic effect? Why is Colleen such an emotional basketcase when you had her planning on taking John out anyway? If he was so dear to her and her confidante, didn't she make plans about the endgame with him then? That's a whole other can of worms though, that goes along with Gretchen not using final four immunity more effectively, or the final five business. I feel like she's borderline mentally retarded. I like John and Vecepia as characters but it's hard to root for either of them because the lack of strategy or opposition from the created characters in the final six, so it's more like reading a dramatic play than following and predicting moves. Predominantly great writing, just still disagree with a lot of the late game choices. |
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SenseiKreese |
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Yeah I agree that the Colleen speech is too harsh for her. I'll probably tone it down a little bit in the final draft, but I'd like to keep the same
basic argument if at all possible. I like the way it comes out, I just don't like some of the details and word choices along the way. We'll see how
it sounds when I come back to it.
And if I recall, I've never actually had Gretchen come right out and say, "I will never vote for a former winner." I've had lots of people say that she said it, and it's been implied numerous times, but I've been pretty careful about what I had her say along the way. Since day one of this rewrite, I have known that she was going to be an important character, story-wise. So I have been extremely careful about painting her into any one particular story arc. If she does vote for Vecepia, it would pretty much be the icing on the cake in terms of her story development. From a character standpoint, she has come the furthest between point A and point B out of anybody. Colleen's not mentally retarded. She's just A) young, B) flighty, and C) not a very good player. I really haven't changed her all that much since Borneo. She thinks she has gotten better at this game, but she hasn't. The only problem is that she doesn't see that. She thinks she was this close to winning, when in truth there's no way John or Tina or Vecepia ever would have let her win. John feels bad about the way it happened, but he knows it was necessary. |
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colleenlover |
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I just wish you didn't know "from day one X would be important..." It was counter to the whole original premise. Yes, suspect, but not know.
I feel it's a shame.
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SenseiKreese |
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Disappointing to you, maybe. But I'd wager not to most people.
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colleenlover |
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oh, burn.
I think you have to have everyone play at the top of their game or else it's compromised. |
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