Question.... and I'm not an edgic expert. I've never done it or read it before (it's really interesting though!) Why did they bother having
Corinne tell us she would be "a bitch" and "own it" in episode 1 if that hasn't happened yet?
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S-17 Edgic (editing and logic) Gabon
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 ncassaro |
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Posts: 144 (10/25/08 11:55 PM) |
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ncassaro |
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Posts: 145 (10/25/08 11:57 PM) |
scepticA wrote:As far as edgic goes, you can't mention the middle finger. One had to stick around for the closing credits to see that.... it wasn't in the episode itself. JMO and I am a newb. |
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OnlyTheHunter |
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Posts: 1752 (10/26/08 1:27 AM) Edgician |
ncassaro said
Question.... and I'm not an edgic expert. I've never done it or read it before (it's really interesting though!) Why did they bother having Corinne tell us she would be "a bitch" and "own it" in episode 1 if that hasn't happened yet? Because it will become important - when the time comes. The onvious comparison is Danielle mentioning her athletic prowess in ep 1 of Exile Island, and then in the finale she beats Terry and Aras in the final IC. Corrine's words are going to matter, considering how they were placed. But it isn't needed in the story to date. Keep your eyes open. Good thinking. Keep reading. Michael |
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AllMenAreIslands |
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Posts: 25227 (10/26/08 2:03 AM) Registered user |
colleenlover wrote: It's only cut & dry because you're used to analyzing the editing. Most people who just watch don't consider Marcus a front-runner. The episode one eagle-eye analysis that Edgic does makes it much easier to consider someone obvious. As long as he gets tended throughout the early going, he remains a strong contender here. But in Casual TV Viewer land, people change from week to week on whom they think will win and Marcus isn't obvious to them. |
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 guatemala fanfic |
EPISODE 6 RATINGS | ||
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Posts: 3882 (10/26/08 7:10 AM) |
Survivor: Gabon - Episode 6 (Ratings Watchdog)
Here are my final ratings for Episode 6.
Fang Tribe
Ace: CPN5 Ace got the first confessional of the episode, where he talked about G.C. being voted off and then gave a general overview of his situation in the tribe. He once again said that he has Sugar in his pocket, and he said he's looking for a potential "Benedict Arnold" - which eventually turned out to be Matty. In the next scene, Ace was shown talking to Sugar about the idol and she gave it to him. He had a confessional saying he went from having no power to supremacy; he has the Immunity Idol and he has an alliance now. This was the confessional that had the elephant in the background. After losing the Immunity Challenge, Ace had three confessionals in a row: one saying that Kelly was going home, one saying that Matty doesn't have to worry about flushing out the idol, and one saying that his alliance is sound and it makes sense for everyone to get rid of Kelly. Before Tribal Council, Ace had a sixth confessional where he expressed his confidence over the vote. I think his thoughts were overall complex enough for him to earn the CP.
Crystal: CPN5 After losing the Reward Challenge, Crystal was shown crying and said that she wasn't used to losing. Randy sortof mocked her and she had a confessional about him saying that he was a troll under the bridge who was angry at the world, and that she doesn't think new Fang and old Fang would get along. Her second confessional was about her reaction to losing the challenge. She said she hoped they didn't put her in the same category as G.C. (Ace had already done this), and that she snapped out of it as soon as she got back to camp. We then had a scene of her confronting Kelly and saying not to mistake her +*##% for weakness. At the Immunity Challenge, she had a confessional saying that Ace was a tyrant and he wasn't benefiting her. Back at camp, we saw a conversation between her and Matty where she said they should blindside Sugar, and then a conversation between her and Ken, where they talked about voting off Ace. She had a confessional saying she was worried about Ace and Sugar because they have an alliance. At Tribal Council, she got into an argument with Kelly that seemed fairly heated at one point. I know that she was supposed to be somewhat sympathetic with the crying and she was probably meant to look positive as opposed to Randy, but she definitely got a lot of negative SPV from Ace and Kelly about breaking down. I strongly considered OTT for her, especially for some of her outbursts, but it also seemed like there were complex emotions behind her +*##% and she also had some strategy moments.
Kelly: OTTN3 Kelly had two confessionals in this episode: one talking about losing the challenge, needing the food because she's withering away, and Crystal's reaction to losing. She also said that Crystal's personality sucks. In her second confessional, she said Crystal's crying shows a sign of weakness (right after Crystal said not to think this), and that Crystal can explain it to Fang but she can't explain it to Kota. We really didn't see that much of her in the episode, but at Tribal Council, she got into an argument with Crystal. I had a very hard time determining Kelly's rating, but I think that she was ultimately very one-note again. I still don't feel 100% right about this rating though because Jeff did seem to agree with her at Tribal Council, but then again, she was shown to be weak and useless again, so I'm not sure.
Ken: MOR4 Ken got a narrative-type confessional talking about the rice scene and then he wasn't shown again at all until right before Tribal Council, where he got four confessionals all talking about the vote and the hidden Immunity Idol. Still, most of this was just narration again and it definitely didn't have any significant complex thoughts, so all I can give him is a MOR4.
Matty: OTTP4 Matty had two confessionals in this episode, but got quite a bit of visibility elsewhere. His first confessional was talking about how he dreams about food, his girlfriend, and his dog every night and that his girlfriend was his driving force in the game. After that, he was shown making a pact with Ace and then had a confessional saying he made the pact on his girlfriend and he wouldn't break it for a million dollars or five million dollars. After losing the Immunity Challenge, Matty was shown strategizing with Ace and Crystal, but I felt that he was very simplified overall as the one person who was trying hard (he got positive SPV from Jeff at the challenges) and his thoughts never seemed all that complex. In general, he seemed to be the OTTP hero.
Sugar: MORP3 In Sugar's first confessional she talked about giving Ace the idol and her second confessional was on Exile saying she felt guilty about having food while her tribe is starving. She had an early scene with Ace where they discussed the idol and her other major scene was when she told Ken that she gave Ace the idol. Neither of these, nor her confessionals, were particularly complex, which is why I've just given her a MORP.
New Kota Tribe
Bob: UTR1 Bob had a narrative type of confessional at the beginning of Kota's scene where he talked about Dan taking the same amount of rice as both Bob and Susie did.
Charlie: INV1 Charlie said a few little things here and there, but he was still devoid of any development and his small amounts of face time weren't enough for UTR1, unfortunately.
Corinne: UTR2 Corinne had a confessional saying that even if you way 100 pounds more than someone, everyone gets the same portions and that Dan was eating so much more than everyone else. Her second confessional was also about Dan, but she also talked about rationing out the pastries after winning the Reward Challenge.
Dan: OTTN2 Dan had no confessionals again, but he was very simplified as someone who was eating more than his fair share of food and being annoying, so the fact that he was characterized and got negative SPV (clear tone) means that he is OTTN, and not UTRN or MORN.
Marcus: MOR3 Marcus was put into the narrator role for this episode and reported a lot of the goings-on at Kota. He had a confessional after Kota won the Reward Challenge talking about how the tribe is unified and there's no better feeling than having a tribe that works well together. His other two confessionals were talking about catching the turtle and eating it. He said the Kota tribe was at its highest high, so Fang better watch out (as if they weren't already beating Fang). Yes, I can see UTR3 as a rating for him but it's one that I really dislike giving out and I do see him fitting the criteria for MOR as well - not just because he's the #1 contender!
Randy: OTTN2 Randy had a confessional after winning the Reward Challenge where he said that he loves winning challenges and watching other people lose. He also got some negative SPV at this same time from Crystal, who called him a "troll" and said he's angry at the world. His other confessional was about Dan annoying everybody and trying to distance himself from Dan while bringing himself closer to the original Kota. I know this was a little bit strategic, but I'm giving him OTTN because I felt that he was very simplified, according to what Crystal said: someone who is mean and angry.
Susie: UTR1 Susie earns her UTR1 this week for having a brief confessional during the turtle scene at Kota.
MOST POSSIBLE WINNER BY FAR:
Marcus
[HUGE GAP]
STILL REMOTELY POSSIBLE
Matty
But it still seems like there's no point to having a #2 choice, but Matty seems to have the one good edit on Fang, AND he has an opening confessional that didn't really have to be in there, which increases his chances. However, it's seeming more and more likely that he's just the last remaining Fang member though rather than the winner.
ELIMINATED BY EDGIC:
Ace, Bob, Charlie, Corinne, Crystal, Dan,
CHART:
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danyul0911 |
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Posts: 38 (10/26/08 9:31 AM) |
Ace - CPN5 - I definitely feel that Ace was shown enough strategy and feelings about the others to earn this CP and the N, I pretty much agree on everyone
else with.
Sugar - CPP3 - I actually disagree with most of you and I think Sugar was CP this episode. We did get inside her head about how she was guilty that she
kept getting sent back to exile and about her and Ace's handling of the Idol. Even though it was a dumb move to give Ace the Idol, she was still editting
positively.
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Kitty Pryde1 |
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Posts: 5961 (10/26/08 11:42 AM) |
Only enough time this weekend for one watch, so that's what I'm going with. 
Only debateable one is Ken, but that's just because I don't remember any of his strategy talk. He could be S2. |
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fat little fingers |
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Posts: 5683 (10/26/08 11:49 AM) Registered User |
ncassaro: Like I said, the end game has ties to the opening scenes. Also, this is when the winner's story is on ice until after the merge. We're now in the middle of distraction stories, or if you prefer, the stories that take up the season before the winner takes the stage again. There's lots of time for Corrine to make her moves and fulfill her promise to be the bitch that owns her hard play. It's just that the INVs have sunk her Edgic chances of winning. |
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unduli clone |
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Posts: 3191 (10/26/08 12:00 PM) Registered User |
KOTA Bob - UTR1 Charlie - INV1 Corrine - UTR1 Dan - OTTN2 Marcus - UTR2 Randy - OTTN2 Susie - UTR1 FANG Ace - CPN5 Crystal - CPM5 Kelly - MORN3 Ken - MOR4 Matty - CPP5 Sugar - OTTP3 I think that's what my ratings were. Submitted them like two days ago. 
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Cassidy666 |
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Posts: 9050 (10/26/08 12:07 PM) Registered User |
fat little fingers wrote: What about the people who think she was UTR instead of INV? That one was a close call for a reason. I still say that the underedited MOR/UTR characters will make their moves later and still have a chance of winning. Marcus is being painted as the one to beat, as boring as he is, so if he goes down, it will be a huge surprise for viewers. |
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Kitty Pryde1 |
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Posts: 5963 (10/26/08 12:24 PM) |
Except Corinne had TWO INVs, not just the one close call. And the second wasn't debatable.
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Cassidy666 |
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Posts: 9055 (10/26/08 12:39 PM) Registered User |
I'm not arguing the second INV. The first one was a toss up and I felt it was UTR and more than half the people here did too.
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Kitty Pryde1 |
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Posts: 5964 (10/26/08 12:50 PM) |
The only reason that UTR was even debatable was because plenty of people didn't want to eliminate Corinne on the basis of an INV. Her saying one line
during the pick 'em, something that HAD to be shown, as she was making her pick, is no different than Kelly and Jacquie getting INVs despite introducing
themselves at the very first pick 'em.
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getting real |
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Posts: 1297 (10/26/08 12:51 PM) Registered User |
With the manipulated emphasis of team-work over individual self-interest (Jeff's voice-over, Crystal's confessional), it is now clear that this is the
season's most important theme.
It also ties in nicely with the first challenge in the crucial first episode and it's an interesting exercise to review that challenge in view of the importance of the theme. Matty stands out as the person who most embodies the theme. The editing made sure that we were made aware of the extent of his assistance to other team members and it set the tone for the unwavering positive edit he has received since. Bob was also showing to be helping, as was Dan and, interestingly, Ace. On the other side of the coin, the three people shown to be departing the most from the teamwork ideal were GC, Michelle and Marcus. Of course, there's no need to dwell on how contemptuous the editing has been towards the former two. However, it is Marcus' inclusion on this list that provides the possibility for the only potential blemish in his edit. The thing that stands out re-watching that challenge is the strength of Probst's editorializing: "GC and Marcus, looking out for themselves," he screams at one point. I know I'm clutching at straws but, hey, we've got to consider anything that might prevent the next eight or so viewing weeks from being rendered meaningless! BTW, Ace's inclusion among those shown to be the team-oriented in the challenge is interesting. It may be argued that he is showing exemplary teamwork in the way he is sharing the idol with Sugar. That sort of teamwork is shown in a totally different light to say, the Fijian Horsemen's use of the idol. |
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OnlyTheHunter |
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Posts: 1753 (10/26/08 1:04 PM) Edgician |
gr said
It may be argued that he is showing exemplary teamwork in the way he is sharing the idol with Sugar. That sort of teamwork is shown in a totally different light to say, the Fijian Horsemen's use of the idol. Except his repeated feeling of having Sugar in his pocket. That's not teamwork as much as employer/employee. That could go any which way, but for now he's the leader and she's the pawn, though it won't stay so clear cut, methinks. Michael |
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getting real |
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Posts: 1298 (10/26/08 1:21 PM) Registered User |
^^ Although it's not overtly spelt out, Sugar telling Matty about the idol and asking Ace to return it are hints that there may be more to the way
the're using it. It's possible that their use of the idol may be the reason that they're not receiving any votes.
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panurge46 |
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Posts: 1134 (10/26/08 1:26 PM) Registered user |
For a group that is convinced Marcus will win, you guys certainly like to ramble on! Interesting read but you should realize that if Marcus wins, a thread like
Edgic wasn't necessary at all while if he loses, Edgic will need a major overhaul.
As I've always stated, I prefer looking at the story rather than the statistical approach of ratings. What is the story of Gabon? It's the story of Good vs Evil played out in "Earth's Last Eden". Knowing that, then I look at the characters. First, I notice that 5 of the remaining players aren't really part of that story. Kelly MORN4 (although rating an eliminated player is pointless) The added "See you Beyotch" in the recap told us she wouldn't get quite the redemption edit but a lot of what she said made sense, especially not showing weakness to the opponents. And Ace was lying since the first words he told Kelly were: "Crystal is going the same way as GC." Susie UTR1 She's enjoying her trip to Africa. That's what makes a "Tourist" edit. Dan OTTN3 Dan is constantly showing that he is his own worst enemy. All of the Kota camp scenes were used to prepare us for why Dan will be booted. "Dumb Players" are often funny but Dan is plain boring. Charlie INV1 Now that the "Marcus is God's Perfect Creation" commercials aren't needed anymore, Charlie has no roles. Crystal CPN5 How can there be discussions about her tone? In the recap, she was lumped under the label of "the rest of Fang", a group that was called the "Goof Troop" by their only positive character. She rants against Ace for not benefitting HER because he was there "for 3 or 4 challenges" when she lost 8 challenges in all. She tells Matty that he is stressing when finally someone was stepping up in camp and trying to organize the mess that is Fang. She waffles her voting decision between Sugar, Ace and Kelly and therefore gets the responsibility for creating what Jeff described as a maddening situation where everybody is on the chopping block. She was the last woman standing in what has traditionally been a grueling challenge but Jeff didn't praise her. Remember him saying that "Rebecca played a huge role in Raro's lead" and pointing out how Stephenie was the last woman competing with the men. Crystal? Jeff said she was dragging her team down and that Matty was frustrated by her. Finally, she gives the finger to the boottee. She's a complex character alright or rather a complicated one. In this "Tribe of Idiots", she is their queen or rather she was their queen. I count 5 Fang members, an alliance of 4 that excludes her and an upcoming TC. Not good. Ken MOR4 Ken is portrayed as someone who tries to play a strategic game but is standing in quick sand. Every move as put him in more trouble. He lost his "brother" GC and his Tool Kelly in back to back TC. He's gone from a good position in an alliance of 3 to being in the #4 slot in the snake's alliance. Look at his pained expression during TC and you'll agree that things aren't working according to plan. Now that we have dealt with the Extras, we can look at the 7 Main Characters. They don't all have the same weight but they form 2 groups with one character standing in the middle. The Good Ones: Bob UTR1 Calling him a "Main Character" is a stretch but he's had just enough in each episode to remind us of his contribution. Dan probably gave us the full reason of Bob's edit when he said: "I wish I could do that at your age." Despite his age, Bob has proven he is a Survivor. Too bad he isn't a player although I noted that he said he shared a plate with Susie. Signs of an alliance? Could he use her for a crucial vote? Now, THAT would be a stretch! Matty CPP5 Matty realized he has been in a terrible situation from the start but he doesn't despair. His efforts in both challenges were strongly underlined by Jeff. He needed a strong alliance and got one with Ace. However, that really sounded like a pact with the devil as he immediately said he wouldn't break that promise, implying he believed Ace wouldn't either. Matty tried to step up in camp but got shot down by Crystal. That will force him to side with Ace and will be his downfall. We practically had a expiration date on his edit: Jaime will probably come to visit him but that will be his last episode. Like his plea during the pursuit challenge, he'll ask Ace to come to his side but Ace won't help. Sugar MORP3 We are meant to like Sugar. Hearing her feel guilty about being in the comfort of Exile Island was meant to show she cares. Seeing her in the foetal position and learning that the others had discovered her idol was to make her appear vulnerable. Her strategy attempts with Ace and Kenny showed her naïveté but hearing her say that she knows Ace is a snake gives a new turn to her story. I expect her to outlast Ace only to discover that there are other snakes in Gabon and they are not all on her side. Marcus MOR2 The "Good Guy" that we are supposed to recognize as the leading force in the game. He's happy that Kota is working well together, he feels Kota is reaching its highest point. Did anyone notice that Marcus was in Tom's position during the pursuit challenge? Did anyone notice that Jeff only praised Kota for their effort? That Marcus wasn't singled out once? Last week, I had a feeling that his story was missing the doubts that surrounds that of a winner, now I see where his story could fall short: He's all about Kota but Kota will not be there when he needs them. Sure he can win but I think Gabon's story has a surprise in store. The Evil Ones: ACE CPN5 Talks of reigning supreme, having Sugar in his pocket and setting up the "Good Guy" Matty for a fall means Ace is likely to meet a resounding fall. Did anyone notice that, after forcing Matty to swear on his girlfriend, he hesitated to name his mother? Did you notice that he only promised to get Matty to the merge? Do you remember that Ken told Matty he was sure to make the merge if only he voted out Ace? I'd be very amused if Ace fails to find "one way to make it across" tribal lines when he tries to rejoin his old alliance in Kota after helping them get rid of Matty. Randy OTTN3 This crusty old man has the perfect story to wind up facing the jury and failing miserably. Being called a troll, showing poor sportsmanship and regaling on pastry in front of a defeated champion should eliminate him from contention but I don't think so for the following reasons: 1- Jeff's own behavior. Our host is snarkier than he has ever been and nothing that Randy has said or done is different from what Jeff has said or done to Fang. Jeff's remark: "You can sample one here and have plenty to take back to camp" told us that rubbing it in was acceptable. I remember that Jeff had chastised Boo for rubbing it in to Ravu. Not so this time. 2- Randy's gameplan. We hear a progression on his strategy. He went from being ready to see Fang self-destroy, to setting up an alliance to get rid of its cancer, to doing whatever he could to be accepted by Kota, to being ready to distance himself from Dan. He IS adapting which was his key to survival. The next step would be seeing him setting up an alliance within the layers of the onion. 3- The
precedent of season 1 when Colleen called Hatch useless and undeserving.
Good or Bad? Bitch or Cheerleader? Corinne MOR2 I'm sorry that I lost a bit of faith in Corinne's chances due to something as trivial as a rating. There was one major difference in the editing of the two challenges: The RC, where Corinne sat out, we had many occasions to hear her cheer for her team, we even saw her applauding their effort and blowing them kisses. The IC where Susie sat out and dissappeared from our screen. Don't you think Susie cheered? There was a constant during both challenges: Corinne got more unnecessary close-ups than anyone. I think that was the editors way to tell us what will be Corinne's game plan. She'LL ride that Kota train as far as it serves her purpose but the bitch will surface at just the right time and backstab them. Unusual editing style for a winner? Certainly. But the editors probably had a pleasant surprise when they realized the splash Natalie created last season when she went from UTR quiet girl to the OTTN stone-cold-bitch. Imagine if we have a repeat and that Bitch owns it in front of the jury!! Bitch or Cheerleader? Some cheerleaders certainly are bitches!!! |
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astroline |
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Posts: 1542 (10/26/08 1:51 PM) Registered user |
Panurge, I love your posts so much. You really get it and it shows. Your viewpoint is so unique but everything always makes complete sense as soon as I read
it. And you're also giving me hope that someone other than Marcus could actually win.
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ncassaro |
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Posts: 146 (10/26/08 2:25 PM) |
Kitty Pryde1 wrote:Didn't Parvati have some INVs last year? She had a few in a row after the swap IIRC. |
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AllMenAreIslands |
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Posts: 25232 (10/26/08 2:28 PM) Registered user |
Parvati had UTRs.
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