Family Final Four

0 Kudos

Started By	Comment
Lady V	Bob?	#921	[-]
Posts: 672 (11/25/08 1:24 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I just read the whole thread for this season. We were all in agreement in the early episodes that Bob was a strong F. Interesting that he has been edited as more "eccentric-like" in his looks and behavior. I wonder, though, if he looked healthier and were younger, we would see him as E. Is he behaving like an E? He pulled a strategic move and went against his group. And he made that idol, which was very believable. He also tried hard to find the idol, and has tried hard at everything, and is quite competent, overall. That's not really E. One season WAY back we said the E had to get drunk at least once! hahahaha Randy, Randy... I haven't been watching pen in hand, lately, to write down instances of E or F for him. Randy was far more E than Bob, IMO. He reminds me of someone from the past--a grandfatherly type character we also struggled with. Maybe we could all watch Bob very carefully this week. With Randy gone, his editing should clarify his role for us now. I think I am getting lazy! :) This is what FLF wrote about eccentrics a long time ago: "'Eccentric', here, doesn't necessarily mean odd or outlandish behavior, though they often include that. Eccentric means someone who fits in with the family group but doesn't fit any of the main family roles. An Eccentric isn't a confused role. A confused role is what we've referred to as a 'failed' role, someone who doesn't relate well to the others as a sibling, nurturer (Mother) or leader/provider (Father). Eccentrics definitely fit right in and seem to easily get included in a strong alliance. Chet and Kathy were definite Eccentrics. I think Ami came closest to being the Favorites' Eccentric this season, but not in Vanuatu, where she was head Sister. She lost her alliance early, though." (My favorite eccentric: Tom from S3.) Good comments here about the insider clips from Tyran Amiros--I haven't seen those. Is he being downplayed? He does use "we" a fair amount. And Phoenix remarked on the early days, when Bob was the "boy scout" and "awesome" and the food provider. Birdlady, I didn't catch that comment from Crystal about being the older sister. That fits. Last Edited By: Lady V 11/25/08 1:31 AM. Edited 1 times.
Lady V	More from the past on E vs. F!	#922	[-]
Posts: 673 (11/25/08 1:30 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Found these comments from 2005 (!) on F vs. E: CRAIG: 5/17/05 I've defined "most popular" going into the F3 as able to beat either of the other two people in a jury vote, and Chris clearly could do that. Maybe Tom too, although Tom vs Ian is unclear. The most perfect archtypes among winners are: Tom = Father (Ian Son, Katie Daughter) Tina = Mother (Colby Son) Ethan = Son (Mama Kim, Lex Father) Jenna = Daughter (Deena Mom, Heidi Sister, Rob Brothe LV: 5/18/05 FLF... yes, we need to define eccentric better. I also believe that when we've got a 'real' eccentric, it's obvious. FLF: 5/19/05 LV: With Father's definition, lets not forget "authority". Fathers always seem to have some level of respect, even if resented or questioned. Eccentrics may not always be clowns, but my idea of being "outside the family" doesn't really work, either. Real Outsiders are booted and often very early. An Eccentric may benefit from being on a tribe that delays or rarely goes to TC. But to make it to FF4, they must have a worth, or at least charisma to survive. Yes? LV: 5/31/05 season 10 FLF: Yes, fathers are also typically the main authority figure in their tribe. I think Es make it when they provide comic relief to the tribe (the Fool) and/or are harmless and seen as not being a threat. I'd like to see an E who provides some genuine spiritual sustenance to the tribe...Frank in S3 had some vague bits of that, but otherwise... (I don't mean fundamentalists of any kind, or even religious people necessarily...) DPY...as for social aspects, theoretically mothers/fathers/kids can be any age, with their own kids in the real world or not, although people who are 'really' fathers/mothers/kids would be most likely to maintain their roles in survivor. There are also lots of moms/dads in the world who are really children, and there are many parentified children, too. I imagine more M/F would be older because it takes maturity and experience to develop those qualities in life. I've been hesitant to define FF4 roles based on outside-of-the-game 'real life' characteristics, though. :) For instance, Coby became a sort of eccentric-ish commentator, sort of like a Shakespearean chorus/fool character. He was an outsider in real life while growing up and his story was that he overcame that feeling and found a way to become part of a team and (somewhat) accepted. Yet, his eccentric-outsiderishness always shone through. Characteristics of mothers on the show are: concern for tribal harmony, tribemates' feelings (including soothing boo boos), nurturing, nest-making and nest-tending, food preparation... Characteristics of fathers on the show are: concern for tribal success and overall effectiveness, expressing the idea that work is something you naturally do to help the family (work ethic), procuring food, brave deeds (!) and courage, physical strength, protectiveness of tribal members, mentoring sons (and frequently tension with them). Kids (S, D) are pretty obvious, yes? Eccentrics we will need to think about, maybe by listing the strong Es we've had so far... it seems to me that they are either funny buffoonish people or mystic, hermit types. ********************************* Discuss?? ;)
birdlady		#923	[-]
Posts: 1891 (11/25/08 10:54 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	"'Eccentric', here, doesn't necessarily mean odd or outlandish behavior, though they often include that. Eccentric means someone who fits in with the family group but doesn't fit any of the main family roles. An Eccentric isn't a confused role. A confused role is what we've referred to as a 'failed' role, someone who doesn't relate well to the others as a sibling, nurturer (Mother) or leader/provider (Father). Eccentrics definitely fit right in and seem to easily get included in a strong alliance. I'd say that's Bob exactly. He fits in, but we don't see much of "concern for tribal success and overall effectiveness, expressing the idea that work is something you naturally do to help the family (work ethic), procuring food, brave deeds (!) and courage, physical strength, protectiveness of tribal members, mentoring sons (and frequently tension with them). " We saw him in the very first episode doing provider things while they were setting up the camp. But since then, they've gone out of their way to show us other people catching food. (And typically they've worked out how on their own, not from Bob teaching or mentoring. Ace was the one generally shown as teaching/leading in camp.) Where Bob has been skilled, it it presented as something odd or archaic, not really relevant to providing for the tribe. (Like thatching the roof, in a climate where it doesn't rain, or log rolling, And then his fake idol making skill was used to complete the destruction of the Kota family.) Even when his physical strength won a challenge, we saw Marcus acting like the father, coaching him through the last bit. I'd agree that he mostly looks crazy because of the way his hair grew out.
fat little fingers		#924	[-]
Posts: 5755 (11/25/08 7:47 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Good discussion! My decision to put Bob with the E had a lot to do with his low profile and his "benign"-ness (Corinne's description). But his making the fake idol and giving it to Sugar breaks his loyalty to his alliance. That's not very E behavior. Whereas, as awful as he was, Randy stayed true to the end, as he said he would. Bob might not have the authority of leadership, but he certainly has been counted on to take care of the tribe. Ken talked about how Crystal and Susie were concerned when Bob was first sent to Exile island and how he, Kenny, had managed to step in and provide fish. Besides leadership and nurturing, Mothers and Fathers also give a tribe grounding and order. (Something Fang suffered the lack of.) So, I agree, Bob fits Father.
Phoenix1269		#925	[-]
Posts: 323 (11/26/08 2:34 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	birdlady... you made me laugh... i was thinking exactly the opposite of you, the very things you said made Bob E and not F...i saw it the other way around! i guess i see Quiet Bob as a father because my idea of a father stems from my own very quiet father. Also... Mother Susie modelled herself after Bob to make sure she would stay at Kota (work ethic). And One of the sons commented that they hoped they could do what Bob does when they are 57 (physical strength). I agree with FLF... I think Bob was extremely grounding for Kota. Considering the votility we started to see from Corinne & Randy AFTER they left Kota... (even before Marcus was gone... CCR started bashing the Fangs and trying to figure out how to throw challenges etc). -- As for the PERFECT E.... when i think of a successful E, I think of Big Tom from Africa. He was funny, and loyal, and much like the favorite uncle, could be counted on to do what was neccessary, but never quite respected for it. Someone who doesn't "edit their words"... they open thier mouths and out tumbles whatever is on their minds. I think that "lack of boundaries" or the "foot in mouth" disease s a HUGE part of the E. E's also don't usually get along well with other E's (like 2 positives on a magnet, they repel) Other sucessful E's (in my mind) would include..Rudy, Kathy (Marquesas, not ASS), Twila (S9) Courtney (S15)... i think Ozzy (S13 mostly), Rupert (S7)* Unsuccessful E's would include: Natalie, Kathleen, Chet, Frank (S3), Janu (S10) and Wanda (S10), Mia (S9), Lil (S7), and Randy... to me, the unsuccessful E is someone who is a) so extreme in their behaviour that they cause serious problems and get voted off early or quit, or b) they are an E but they have been left undeveloped in favour of another or on some whim from the editors (like Natalie). I think usually, an unsuccesful E would be gone at or before F7... however in the case of Rupert and Lil... Lil was rightfully an unsuccessful E, she was voted out and then brought back, and the aftermath of this is that Successful E Rupert lost his position. **Randy... i think is the unsuccessful E, he is gone at F7. and i think that Crystal is actually our successful E this season. Randy & Crystal have been fighting since day 1, Randy was also fighting with Gillian since day 1, so they've done their jobs...keeping us distracted from the winner. I think also lends credence to Bob being F... we didn't see any real issues with Crystal/Bob or Randy/Bob (except for 1 small comment from Randy saying Bob is annoying)... thanks for letting me share my thoughts... always have loved this thread... a great way to look at how duress affects us into our natural family comfort positions Last Edited By: Phoenix1269 11/26/08 2:37 PM. Edited 1 times.
tmtomhJanet		#926	[-]
Posts: 259 (11/26/08 6:58 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	But if Bob is the father, it is still likely rule 7 will be broken. I can't see either Bob or Susie winning. Have the rules been tweaked to account for F3 or is there not enough data to go by yet? 7) If a parent is in the F2 with a non-parent, the parent will win. (7/8)
Lady V		#927	[-]
Posts: 674 (11/27/08 12:15 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	tmtomhJanet-- the rules haven't been changed for F3. Are we having another F3 this time? Eek! Very Interesting Thoughts on Bob. We are still not in agreement completely about him. Everyone's points are well taken. I just do not see Bob as E enough to be E. It will be interesting to see what he does in this next ep; if his F qualities are edited in. I have a feeling his F qualities have been edited out since the first ep--not that he is not demonstrating them. It seems to me the editors are not as good as they used to be. :) I'm going to pay really close attention to Bob (and Crystal) on E. I tend to think Crytal is unlikable by some, but that doesn't necessarily make someone an E-- neither does aggression (think Rob). HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!! ;)
MissScamper		#928	[-]
Posts: 777 (11/27/08 4:34 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	According to Jeff Probst, we will see both F2 and F3 scenarios. He said they like to keep the survivors guessing. Since all our current survivors think it's going to be a F3 this time, I'm fully expecting we'll go back to the traditional F2. But yes, I expect we should set up a new rules for those times it is a F3 situation. Speaking of Jeff Probst, he also indicated that the viewers will be happy with the winner this time. So, who would the average viewer like to see win this time? Bob, I think, is pretty well liked now. Sugar was very well liked until last episode gave her a downturn; we'll have to see how things go for her next episode. I think most viewers dislike Crystal and Corrine, and Susie is pretty much invisible. That leaves Matty and Kenny. Personally, I like Matty much better than Kenny (who does an EXCELLENT rat impression, IMO). I would not be happy to see Kenny win, but I'm not sure how the average viewer feels about him. I'm thinking Corrine gets the boot next. I would like to see Bob stay around, but it would be very dangerous to all the other players to keep the last remaining original Kota member, as he would be sure to win the other Kota's votes. Unless Bob goes on an immunity run, he's toast, and I think it more likely for Matty to go on an immunity run. Actually, I think he needs to do so, if he wants to make it to the F4. That leaves Matty, Sugar, Susie, Crystal and Kenny. If Matty wins immunity, I think Crystal and Kenny would vote out Susie rather than risk voting for Sugar who might play her immunity idol. Of course Sugar and Matty might convince Susie to vote with them against Crystal or Kenny, the only tight pair left in the game. If Matty doesn't win immunity, then I think he would get the boot. So, right now I guess I'm predicting a F4 of: D - Sugar either S - Kenny or Matty E - Crystal M - Susie And Happy Thanksgiving to all!
Lady V		#929	[-]
Posts: 675 (11/28/08 1:14 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Hi MissS! Lots of thoughts. I'm too full of dinner to digest them all tonight. ;) In the ep tonight, Jeff said Bob took the role of the father from the beginning. Then we saw a lot of footage we've not seen before of the things he's built, the sundial, etc., and Bob says he has the respect of the tribe. Es don't get the respect of the tribe. I'm going with Bob as F. I still don't see Crystal as an E. It seemed to me the edited storyline tonight was all about Eve (Sugar), and how would she choose between good (Matty) and evil (Corinne). We sure are set for a showdown between Sugar and Corrine, IMO. I agree with MissScamper's analysis of the likability of the survivors. I'm finding Kenny a little arrogant now, and usually (not always) the arrogant fall. The other survivor whose story seemed highlighted to me was Matty's, and that surprised me. I was surprised, also, to hear Sugar was homeless after her father died. If Bob is her father, I can't see her cutting him loose at all. Remember, she said, "I won't, I won't," when Bob said "don't forget this" after he agreed to do the fake idol scam. Her Father Just Died.
Phoenix1269		#930	[-]
Posts: 324 (11/28/08 9:44 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	If Bob is her father, I can't see her cutting him loose at all. Remember, she said, "I won't, I won't," when Bob said "don't forget this" after he agreed to do the fake idol scam. Her Father Just Died. i noticed this too... very telling. I suspect Sugar has more alliances than we previously thought. If she sees Bob as a father figure, she won't toss him under a bus right now... not at all.
MissScamper		#931	[-]
Posts: 778 (11/28/08 10:15 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Hi, everyone. Hope your Thanksgiving was happy and full of delicious turkey. Yep, Bob's the dad of the family. And I agree, Bob and Sugar are set up to bond as a F/D couple. That's why I think Corinne is the next to go, rather than Bob. Speaking of Corinne, was anyone else troubled by her in the recrap? I hadn't thought much about it previously when she talked about hating people and wanting to stab Susie in the face, but in the recrap Corinne was to poison them all and kill Sugar. She has WAY TOO MANY thoughts of killing others. And while Corinne thinks she's being nice to everyone to their faces, it's apparent that her hatred spews out of her mouth unconsciously. I thought Sugar's little chat with Corinne was done with the best of intentions on Sugar's part, giving Corinne a not-so-subtle hint that she needs to watch what she says. Corinne, of course, was outraged that dumb, non-college graduate Sugar who is far, far beneath Corinne, could even think of advising/teaching Corinne on anything. I think I would be very uncomfortable around Corinne. I could probably deal with her arrogance, but she's just too disturbing for me. Last Edited By: MissScamper 11/28/08 10:27 AM. Edited 2 times.
birdlady		#932	[-]
Posts: 1911 (11/28/08 2:58 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	That's why I think Corinne is the next to go, rather than Bob. If the next boot (or couple of boots) are to resolve over-populated roles, wouldn't it be either Corinne/Sugar, or Matty/Kenny? Whatever Bob is, there's no one like him. Sugar definitely seems to be the preferred D, but at some point the family will need to make an S choice. (Adumb was creepy violent, too, remember him wanting to hit Jonathan in the face, not just in general, but specifically with a brick? I can understand people being angry and frustrated at other players, wishing they would just go away, but, yeah, way too much violent detail.)
tmtomhJanet		#933	[-]
Posts: 260 (11/28/08 3:10 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Hmmm, I guess having the recap spell out Bob as the father figure kind of settles that issue. I was assuming F3 cuz it seemed wierd that they would deliberately set out to have an 8 person jury. Maybe they did that to fool the contestants into thinking F3. Bob is just so dang likeable I have a hard time picturing him losing if he does face the jury unless all the Kota people turn on him for fooling Randy with the fake idol. I don't think they would blame him. My guess is that Bob makes F4 but just misses facing the jury be it as F2 or F3. Other than that I don't think this recap episode solidified anyone's roles. Crystal wasn't as negative as usual and I didn't really see anything eccentric about her. I think she is probably a D. My guess at F4: Bob - F Susie - M Crystal - D Ken - S Maybe Sugar slips in there instead of Susie but I think her story just had good entertainment value.
tmtomhJanet		#934	[-]
Posts: 261 (11/28/08 3:14 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	As for Corrine, I'm hoping she was just letting off steam ranting to the camera. We are obviously supposed to hate her as they seem to have shown every negative thing she said.
MissScamper		#935	[-]
Posts: 779 (11/28/08 5:32 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Yes, I agree Corinne was just letting off steam when she was ranting away to Randy in the recrap. But she wasn't so much letting off steam in an angry rant in the picnic scene when she said she would prefer to serve them all poison (or words to that effect), as she seemed rather dispassionate at that time. I guess it's her detailed descriptions of how she wants to kill others (stab in the face, serve them all poison) that bothers me the most. I would be more likely to say something like " I could have killed her!" rather than "I want to stab her in the face". It's as though Corinne has really thought about the methods for killing others. That's what disturbs me the most. And I think we saw only a fraction of all the bad things Randy and Corinne said and did.
tmtomhJanet		#936	[-]
Posts: 262 (11/28/08 6:09 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Randy and Corrine almost seemed to make it a contest to see who could hate the others more. Corrine's detailed thoughts about hurting the others may have just been a way to one-up Randy. Or she could be a pyscho bitch that you should never cross in real life. Either way her OTT rants are entertaining.
Lady V		#937	[-]
Posts: 676 (11/28/08 11:42 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Hey, everyone!!! (waving wildly--blame the pumpkin pie!) Happy day after Thanksgiving! My husband and I had our dance class today. We were doing the foxtrot, and right in the middle I thought of Corinne and Sugar. I, too, found Corinne's rants very disturbing. They've been leaving out the worst things she's said from the regular episodes, perhaps in order to set us up for what will happen in the endgame, or in just the next episode. I also noted her audition tape, in which she highlighted, with no humility, her accomplishments having graduated from the University of Florida, I believe it was. She seems to have a bit of an inflated image of herself, and this is a personality trait, not just "letting off steam" I don't think. I somehow doubt she feels bad about hearing herself say what she said. She has likely rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Corinne and Sugar are opposites in many ways, and this seems to threaten Corinne more than it does Sugar (because Corinne has more extreme emotion about it). Back to the foxtrot... I was trying to imagine them all dancing. I can see Susie, Bob, and Sugar ballroom dancing. Everyone else makes a funny picture. :D Those three seem to go together. Maybe it's just the FMD thing, but I think there is another quality to the three of them that the others don't share. It's not refinement (I wouldn't call them "refined" or "elegant"). I'm not sure what it is. But I'm thinking that may well carry them over into at least F4... Birdlady, yeah, the next boots should (from FF4) be Matty, Kenny, Corrine, or Sugar. Susie and Bob should be safe. So are we agreed now that: F Bob M Susie, Crystal (failed) D Corrine, Sugar S Matty, Kenny ? Edited to fix silly D typo on Crystal Last Edited By: Lady V 12/02/08 11:13 PM. Edited 1 times.
Kitty Pryde1		#938	[-]
Posts: 6790 (11/28/08 11:50 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I don't see Crystal as a D at all. She seems too forceful. She REALLY strikes me as an E.
Tyran Amiros		#939	[-]
Posts: 249 (11/29/08 3:06 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I agree with Kitty. IMHO, Crystal is sort of aunt-like in the family structure. Too bold to be a proper follower (D) but not responsible or mature enough for M--besides, we've got a good M in Susie already. Like Randy was that crazy uncle who gets drunk and insults you, Crystal is that wacky aunt living in that city across the country who you're never sure is going to come but you have to invite to every event anyway. Or maybe it's just the Thanksgiving in me coming out :) Seriously though, I think the fact that we're not sure if Crystal could be M or D clearly points to her being E--particularly since we have good Ds in Corrine and Sugar and a good M in Susie. My Final FF7: F-Bob M-Susie S-Kenny, Matty D-Corrine, Sugar E-Crystal For FF6, I predict we lose one of the kids.
Lady V		#940	[-]
Posts: 678 (11/29/08 4:02 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Does anyone think looking at Crystal as E might be a cultural thing? Just wonderin'. Non-sequitor: Does my avatar show up for others? I had a heck of time getting it to appear! ;)

<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>

Yuku free message boards

Family Final Four