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colleenlover |
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hate to play this card -but the few people I know that I talk to about this show love Sugar and loved the last episode thinking it was funny that the jerk got
what he deserved -and no, I didn't load the dice.
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scepticA |
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I am not going to be persuaded that Sugar was not OTTN. I will, however, entertain the thought (I should, because I was the person who first suggested it) that Randy was CPNN. It was a unique edit in Survivor history - "I"m going to be a jerk to try and get votes in hopes this idol thingee is real" - and we wee him do it. Planned, intentional jerkiness of that order is astonishing and quite interesting t(in an "ewwww" sort of way) watch how he carefully molded his insults based on who he was talking to, and quite different than the typical OTTNN. So yeah, CPNN could work. Of course, given that I don't do ratings any more the previous statement is sort of irrelevant.. |
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dennydoylelives |
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scepticA wrote: To be technical, there was one "Fuck You!" too, but it was said more quietly. |
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Phoenix1269 |
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guatemala fanfic wrote:I can try... hopefully the new year will settle down for me.... however, monday afternoon is impossible for me. due to some seriously technical issues that i won't get into here, i cannot do monday afternoons. (PM me if you want details) as for monday evenings, this fall i've had a myriad of appointments and some classes on monday nights, and i found that doing the stats when i come home after all of that puts me to bed around 11pm, and since i get up at 4:45 am or 5:00 am... it makes for really long week. With now that i have a better understanding of what i'm doing with everything, i can look at monday nights again. When i first started with the website/ stats, with everything else going on, it was impractical. -- how does everyone else feel about the current schedule vs Monday evening? FLF, Warrior... Monday evening give enough time for close calls? |
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Warrior |
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What ever works best for you Phoenix...don't kill yourself.
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TheLurkerSpeaks |
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Sceptic,
Did Sugar say "I want to humiliate Randy"? Not to my recollection. In any case, it was presented as Sugar getting the best of Randy in a battle of wits, not Sugar being mean and cruel to Randy. You don't get deeper without independent analysis, and while you seem to think that that analysis is implicit, I continue to believe if the editors had meant that to be a focus, they would have found a way to make it explicit. Just because something hasn't been done before doesn't make it negative. Being quiet at the voting booth may be the norm, but there's nothing requiring it. (As I recall, Rob C.'s tribute while voting out Roger in S6 was loud enough to be heard, but they edited that out to make it seem like a blindside when the votes were read.) People remain quiet because they either are trying to pull off a blindside or because there's no need to anger a jury member. In this case, there was no blindside in the vote itself, and Crystal certainly had no reason to expect Randy to vote for her. I disagree with you that she was violating the sanctity of the voting booth in any way. And Crystal didn't say "You suck!" - it really stretches the interpretation of what she said to get there. You seem to contradict yourself when you say there is zero distinction between saying it softly or saying it loudly. I agree with this statement, but apparently you don't. And while this may have been trash talk, it was not unjustified considering Randy's continual trash talk all game. This is really no different than "How do you like them apples?" (I forgot the name of the movie but it starred Matt Damon and Robin Williams.) I doubt you consider that an N moment for the Matt Damon character. Randy could have been developed as a prophet given the first couple episodes, but that isn't where the edit went. Instead of working with his team (Fang's main flaw per Probst at numerous TC's), Randy decided to sit back and watch. Then he went over to Kota and basically threw his allies under the bus while taking every opportunity to bash Fang. And Randy turned out to be wrong about Fang - they rebounded and now they control the game. He was not a prophet after all, so what is there to take from his early edit except that he was overly negative about his situation? The problem comes when you continue to treat him as the character you expected to see instead of the character that was actually shown. (And it continues with this push to have his final episode CP. His strategy was presented as an excuse to be as nasty as possible. It wasn't really strategy as he indicated in his talk to Corinne that he couldn't fake being nice to the others. Basically, it was just a nice bonus for him to potentially use his nastiness as a means of taking someone out with the idol. The strategy was just straightforward, and it wasn't presented as any kind of internal conflict. He was going to be nasty regardless, and if he could have his cake and eat it too, so much the better.) I'm not sure what you mean about the "N-ness of Crystal" being telegraphed by the prior TC. Crystal wasn't N then either. She just asked Randy to explain why he had a problem with her, and then she let him air his grievances. The interruptions went both ways and were more or less inevitable in such a setting. Certainly, Randy had no high ground against Crystal considering we saw him bashing her without proximate cause several times that prior episode. I do believe that many posters here decided Crystal was an N personality early in the season, and thus rate her such no matter what. If Ken somehow doesn't make the end, I wouldn't be surprised at all if she wins based upon the edit she actually got instead of the edit that's reflected on the official Edgic tally. I thought she was too visible for a stretch, but her recent cooldown actually puts her only slightly more visible than I would expect a winner to be overall. She has not been too OTT as many others insist. Whether you buy my arguments that Crystal's voting comment was toneless or not doesn't concern me. As far as I can tell, your argument boils down that you dislike Crystal and like Randy more than the edit would suggest we should. I disagree that Sugar's edit was intended to show pettiness (even if it did come through). The whole episode was a big "feel good" boot. Was it overdone? In my opinion, yes, but that's a failure of editing, not a success. Why assume that the editors always intend the reaction you experience? Isn't that a bit presumptuous. Editors aren't perfect, and they won't please everyone. Some people actually prefer to root for the nasty people - it happens. That's why I don't think it makes much sense to look only at how an episode made you feel without looking at how the editing was actually presented. You say you are, and I disagree that you actually are. My "once again" referred to making the same argument several times in the same response - sorry if it offended you, but I don't believe it was inappropriate. Glad we agree about Corinne, however. |
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cindidindi76 |
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colleenlover wrote: And the few people who I talk to about the show didn't care about Sugar one way or the other before, but thought she was an asshole this eppy. That must mean I'm right!!! That, or the people I talk tend to have similar opinions as myself. Nah, that can't be it. Just because Randy was negative doesn't mean Sugar WASN'T negative. If anything, Randy SHOULD have gotten the NN I was pushing for but no one wants to give for the same reason people don't give INVs. I said that after the show Thursday. Why do I think that if anyone besides Sugar did all that crap (Crystal, for example), there wouldn't be any question if it was N or not? |
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colleenlover |
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I just made my statement in a rebuttal to the few saying their friends commented, and then thought , "gee, the few people I admit to watching this show to
were over the moon howling at the last episode"
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cindidindi76 |
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Lol, I know, I was more commenting on the people who every week say "Well, my friends who are casual viewers agree with me!!!", you just happened to
be the last one that said it.
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fat little fingers |
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I agree with Warrior, Phoenix. Extend the deadline to Monday only if you are
comfortable with that. I think gf was asking for next season.
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getting real |
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I love how probably the most heated debates over ratings for the whole season have occurred in the only instance where there haven't been any close calls!
Seems like irony and Survivor go hand in hand! |
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craig |
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"As for Sugar, the intention of the editors is what matters, not necessarily what we actually feel. I agree with everyone who says that what Sugar did was petty and cruel, even if it was to Randy. But that wasn't the intent of the edit. " The edgic majority said Sugar was OTTN, despite the fact that a majority are rooting for Fang. Sugar also looked negative in her scene with Bob before the auction. Her negativity wasn't solely related to Randy. Probst (important editor) said he symapthized with Randy and wished he could replace the votes and vote off Sugar. usually the edit reflects Probst's take on things. So if you felt Sugar was petty and cruel, and editor Probst agrees with you, is should be case closed. Yet you insist you know the intent of the edit if something different. How so? Crystal's N was weak and completely Rady related. But then Randy has been given weak Ns that are mostly Crystal related. So Randy and Crystal hate each other, old news, big deal. I bet Randy votes Crystal, his arch-rival, if she makes the finals with Susie and Sugar. That's a common payoff to a rivalry (Coby and Katie, Shane and Danielle, Eliza and Parvati). Sugar's edit screams non-winner. And obviously she is not going to be a innocent pagonging victim. So either her edit has to explain why she gets her commupance, or why she loses in F3. PS: Much like OTH's Alexis pick last season, I'm parking my vote after I've ceased really having faith in it. Rather do that than flip around based on what I've read in interviews or the Insider. |
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trinity17888 |
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colleenlover wrote:Everyone I know who watched was laughing along with Sugar. They thought that boot was the best thing they'd seen in years. I'm the only one, aside from a few people here, that think Randy was set-up with a very realistic-looking fake idol JUST to be humiliated. They had the votes to get rid of him; there was no reason to put a boot to his head at the same time. Speaking of Sugar... it looks like Sugar will slide to F3. It's about the time when flushing the idol while still getting the boot you want becomes a possibility, but at this point I'm not sure they'd even bother risking it. I don't think Sugar is going to win a final vote - everyone still thinks she's stupid. |
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fat little fingers |
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Come on people, admit it, it was a hoot of a good prank. The fake idol was a wonderful piece of work by Bob. Bob made it to "pull off a bank heist"
and save his ass for a while and that's exactly what he did.
We've had a long story of Sugar being underestimated. Randy's long story of being mean, and rude wasn't played down this episode, it was reinforced over and over. Sugar's motive was personal and for that, she will probably pay the price later on. But, it's hard not to smile when she bests him at every maneuver, until his jaw drops and the girl too dumb to worry about has everyone (but Corinne and Bob) laughing at him. (Including the jury.) |
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craig |
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Yes it's funny if you're a Fang fan, or Randy hater, or in love with Sugar.
But Sugar had earned that N well before TC. If the rest of the episode edit was P for Sugar and we'd actually seen Randy be mean to her or underestimate her, I could see your point. How did Bob earn himself an extra day? Randy was the target anyway. Bob's strategy wasn't explained. He voted for Susie against Sour's advice. |
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panurge46 |
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Come on!
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scepticA |
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A marvelous TLS quote:
Interesting! Sugar's pettiness came through (like I said), and the boot was overdone (like I said). Nevertheless, it was supposed to be a feel good boot! But it wasn't. Sugar was petty, the boot overdone. There are either two possibilities: It really wasn't a total feel-good boot, or:
I guess the primary difference between TLS and myself is that I too saw Sugar as petty and the boot overdone, and (silly me!) assumed that's what the editors wanted to show - because (as TLS acknowledges) that's what was shown. I draw intent from the edit. Instead, TLS determined that these things were not correctly shown - the editors failed. His desire of a "feel good" boot was thus thwarted by poor editing. He draws intent from what should have been. And he calls the other POV presumptuous... If we begin to attribute our ratings based on a presumed failure of editing is, then edgic becomes speculation on what should have been seen rather than what was seen. To restate: Why assume that the editors always intend the reaction you experience? No, the logical question to you is: why assume that the editors didn't intend to show what was shown. |
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colleenlover |
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Mmmm, I still think the opposite. i think Sugar acted like a jackass out there but the edit went out of their way to soften her and to keep curbing Randy off
at the pass -the cookie thing, the payback for Crystal. The "evil" Sugar comment seemed more in jest and in line with the joke. When I think OTTN
edits, it's usually accompanied by harsh reaction shots (Kelly in the hammock) or screeching music (Jerri hammering in the stacks to the tent after Tina
juxtaposed the soft and cuddy Lis/Rodger ala music).
I just think the edit went out of their way to sculpt the character because these issues are going to rebound in the final council. Probst's blog in EW is his personal opinion -we'll have to wait and see how it's presented in the recap intro and what his scripted voiceover is. |
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guatemala fanfic |
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I agree with Warrior, Phoenix. Extend the deadline to Monday only if you are comfortable with that. I think gf was asking for next season.Yes, I was asking about next season, but in either case, I would only ask if it wasn't an inconvenience to you. I'm pretty sure I'll be okay for the rest of this season though. Thanks for all your hard work, Phoenix! |
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Trixiego |
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My non edgic two cents in watching, re-watching and re-watching it with a non obsessed Survivor viewer (there are a few) and since we got a recap, I'm
coming in to bug you people.
Randy was an ass; no sugar coating that (ugh no pun intended) - it is established, we know that Sugar, up until the other night has been ridiculously catered to as our snuggle bunny. Last episode was not feel good t.v. although I know some of you feel it was. and Sugar (for as much as they tried to tweak it for her to not look like super uber bitch which her cutesy faces and it certainly helps that she wants to look out for the old guy) was the ring leader to humiliate Randy. Is Randy an ass who deserved to leave and everyone be happy about it? Yes. Ironically, I would probably have accepted the way his fate happened at the hands of Susie over anyone else BASED on the episode; she was the brunt of his attack and there was really nothing BASED on that episode to merit except the ridiculous statement by Randy that she was leaving because :gasp she played the game and got Marcus out. She received a STFU and Randy saying he wanted to not only boot her but blindside and we hear from her probably the kindest words spoken about the bad guy - she actually feels bad for the guy. I could have accepted the wicked demise by her at that point. Based on nothing than the actual episode it was only clear Sugar and Randy did not like each other with no real explanation BASED on that episode the meaning behind the animosity (except of course Sugar's description of Randy which we already knew he was a jerk) however, Sugar was ALSO shown trying to have Randy outbid, turned down his offer of two cookies and one of them gave up to Matty (and then contradicts it by saying Randy didn't offer her a cookie) and we know her intentions for Randy leaving was clear - it wasn't enough to boot him but she wanted to humiliate him; - she didn't have to even say it, it was clear as day by Bob with his satisfaction comment, her "wait for it wait for it" to Crystal and Kenny and probably other stuff I forgot. The difference between Randy's negativity and Sugar's negativity is pretty much (for me) that I have been made almost immune to Randy's negativity - that was who he was throughout the show; an ass! Sometimes there was basis for it, other times he was just a jerk but when was the other night different than the norm? But Sugar??? I don't know; I think it seemed pretty clear to me that there was a overhaul to her and not in a good way despite the cutsey package it came in. I also had negative feelings towards Crystal just as a very negative person and frankly she was the best of the bunch the other night out of her, Kenny and Sugar. They kept her mouth pretty much under wraps compared to earlier episodes which struck me as peculiar. Her tongue lashing at TC vote? Her comments were negative but BASED on the episode itself, as just "observing" she sounded like someone who was just fed up with Randy the asshole (and we know Randy is an asshole and he said he was going to make the camp miserable) - there was no lengthy play up that she was peeling away at any shred of (what little respect) Randy may have deserved but simply yelling she was fed up with him and get the hell out of camp. Considering he TOLD us he was going to crash and burn the camp then what she said (no matter how loud and obnoxious it was) sounded like someone who was completely and utterly fed up with an asshole - there really was no play up to it. Honestly, I have seen every single "sting" with the idol and I have laughed or sat forward with fun anticipation and the looks on the other contestants faces I really took in and enjoyed as well. Worse case scenario? I cringed for Erik but not because I felt bad but more like "you pathetic boy." I did NOT feel any of those prior feelings at this TC with this "sting." I really felt as uncomfortable as Bob appeared to look - I didn't like Randy, he was a jerk yet I actually felt uncomfortable - and out of all of them, Sugar WAS the featured player. This was completely Randy vs. Sugar. Did the bad man go? Yeah but I don't think it is a simple "bad guy went down." This TC was uncomfortable to watch and at the expense of a jerk no less. |
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