S-17 Edgic (editing and logic) Gabon in Survivor Speculation Forum

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S-17 Edgic (editing and logic) Gabon

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anthonyd46		#4701	[-]
Posts: 130 (12/15/08 01:47 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Everyone is gifted. Some open the package sooner. Remove this ad Kirblar wrote: How do you edit a guy who wins due to another contestant having massive, massive Daddy issues and who has no strategic sense? good point sugar was very important to how this season turned out. Because of sugar randy went that night, ace went home, crystal went instead of matty, ken went instead of susie, and bob made it to the final 3. None of those things would of happened when they did or even happen at all if sugar had been voted out episode 1 or 2. Regardless of bob winning this season was all about sugar. She seemed to be in the center of everything and bob would of never made the final 3 if she didnt force the tie. This is why some people thought sugar won the game because the whole game seemed to revolve around her and even though she didnt win Bob would of finished 4th without her.
Green Coffee		#4702	[-]
Posts: 133 (12/15/08 01:47 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I think that the visibility calculations are intended to be heavier for people who go to TC because they necessarily play a larger role in the episode and are likely to actually be more visible to the viewer. The issue, IMO, is more on interpretation. A 1 when you go to tribal is a bigger deal than a 1 when the other tribe goes. A 1 isn't as big a deal if the whole episode is devoted to one major unrelated event that's just good TV. On the other side, getting a 5 when your tribe doesn't go is weird. Getting a 5 when they do go isn't as big of a deal. That said, I think visibility calculations can be improved most by incorporating new aspects of visibility. Major challenge notables (even reporting can substitute for time that would have been given elsewhere if what happens is major) and SPV are big components that I think could be given weight in the calculations. Also, in regards to this, I think the discussion TLS and I had about the viability of INV needs to be examined during the offseason. He thinks it is too subjective and I can see where he's coming from. If INV is meant to actually mean lack of visibility, let's put it to the test by setting an objective visibility cutoff. However, given what we saw here tonight, I am inclined to say the biggest move we need is one that emphasizes a conservative elimination approach. We should truly keep all edits in mind and try our best not to write people off, even when they look like they cannot win. This may include less inclinations to drop INV people from contention (although the theory held here - Bob was low vis and low impact but never absent completely).
James Barber		#4703	[-]
Posts: 14778 (12/15/08 01:51 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	The edit Fang had in the early episodes was almost rancid. Not only failure in challenges, but even decisions they made which had some logic in them, like the Jacquie vote, were presented as stupid. I guess that should have been the tipoff. I thought Matty might have had a chance because he was exclude from most of that edit, but I guess he was just the show's sentimental favorite. I wonder how this season would have come across if they'd eased up on the negativity and focused more on some positive moments from Bob and Susie. They were the two nicest people left post-merge, and they were the winner and runner-up. Was that one of the reasons they were ignored? To reinforce how they stood out from the rest?
RobVanStratus		#4704	[-]
Posts: 7423 (12/15/08 01:52 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Edgic failed and I'm glad to see some of you admitting that. I give those of you that I remember off the top of my head, like OO, a round of applause for admitting your failure. I certainly didn't participate in Edgic fully, but I supported Sugar if I had a vote in this and I accept my defeat. In retrospect, what craig is saying is right. Fang was edited too negative early on to win the game and the winner had to be a Kota. Once Marcus left and there were no choices for Edgic, backtracking occurred and Kenny got picked, instead of looking at the whole game thus far. It was pounded into our head that Fang sucks and Kota rules, so Bob winning fit the story. Bob was the only pure Kota after Marcus left and was the only one not tainted by the loser Fang tribe. Bob was very much a Danni win in that everyone left had flaws to their edits and he was the underdog from the dominating alliance that got picked off. But if you actually looked at edits you could pick off people considered the "top picks." Matty was one note, about loving his girlfriend. He saw her and proposed, end of story. Kenny was about going from kid to man, and at the end he failed to become a man with his petty argument with Bob after getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar. I'm not saying I know everything, but looking in retrospect, Edgic made major mistakes in picking severely flawed choices. Also, the ratings for this whole season have been entirely skewed by biases. Crystal had far too many negatives and Sugar most definitely did not deserve negatives for the Randy boot, the audience loved it and supported her. Now Marcus got far too many CP episodes because everyone latched onto them as winners. Marcus talked about strategy like twice, once when the Onions formed and then once when he got booted. Other than that, he was MOR and got to the CP edits because people were trying to fit him into the Edgic story of a winner. Also the ranking of INV needed to be relooked at as well. Bob definitely had at least one INV episode and Kenny definitely had an INV in Ep3. Those should Edgically eliminate them, but incorrectly rated and Kenny got to stick around. Not like it affected Bob, other than Kitty no one ever really picked him as a top runner for winner.
Kitty Pryde1		#4705	[-]
Posts: 7306 (12/15/08 01:53 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	One problem I see with the current system is that once we eliminate someone, or deem them unwinable, those players' ratings tend to get skewed. Bob got a ton of OTTs, but I thought he got several CPs towards the end. I think if someone is something early on, we shouldn't automatically give them a similar rating down the road because of that. This happened with Sugar and it happened with Bob.
Kitty Pryde1		#4706	[-]
Posts: 7307 (12/15/08 01:56 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	RobVanStratus wrote: Edgic failed and I'm glad to see some of you admitting that. I give those of you that I remember off the top of my head, like OO, a round of applause for admitting your failure. I certainly didn't participate in Edgic fully, but I supported Sugar if I had a vote in this and I accept my defeat. In retrospect, what craig is saying is right. Fang was edited too negative early on to win the game and the winner had to be a Kota. Once Marcus left and there were no choices for Edgic, backtracking occurred and Kenny got picked, instead of looking at the whole game thus far. It was pounded into our head that Fang sucks and Kota rules, so Bob winning fit the story. Bob was the only pure Kota after Marcus left and was the only one not tainted by the loser Fang tribe. Bob was very much a Danni win in that everyone left had flaws to their edits and he was the underdog from the dominating alliance that got picked off. But if you actually looked at edits you could pick off people considered the "top picks." Matty was one note, about loving his girlfriend. He saw her and proposed, end of story. Kenny was about going from kid to man, and at the end he failed to become a man with his petty argument with Bob after getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar. I'm not saying I know everything, but looking in retrospect, Edgic made major mistakes in picking severely flawed choices. Also, the ratings for this whole season have been entirely skewed by biases. Crystal had far too many negatives and Sugar most definitely did not deserve negatives for the Randy boot, the audience loved it and supported her. Now Marcus got far too many CP episodes because everyone latched onto them as winners. Marcus talked about strategy like twice, once when the Onions formed and then once when he got booted. Other than that, he was MOR and got to the CP edits because people were trying to fit him into the Edgic story of a winner. Also the ranking of INV needed to be relooked at as well. Bob definitely had at least one INV episode and Kenny definitely had an INV in Ep3. Those should Edgically eliminate them, but incorrectly rated and Kenny got to stick around. Not like it affected Bob, other than Kitty no one ever really picked him as a top runner for winner. Sugar WAS N for the Randy boot episode, and it was reinforced in the next episode, and in Bob's responses/the jury's comments at the FTC. She was DEFINITELY N in that episode.
craig		#4707	[-]
Posts: 14532 (12/15/08 02:48 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Sugar was N for the randy boot, and had to be to explain her getting ZERO votes, and because Bob calling her out came up as a topic at the final TC. Also the Negative Fang edit went along with their main critic Randy getting a decent edit, rather than being a one-note villian.
Tyran Amiros		#4708	[-]
Posts: 251 (12/15/08 02:48 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Sugar had to go N (or at least M) in the final few episodes to explain why the Sweetheart didn't get any votes at the Final TC. My parents still wanted her to win the America's Tribal Council, though, after Bob won the million. About Crystal being N, all of the people I watch with cheered when she got booted Thursday. My parents actually called after the show to say how glad they were that Crystal was finally gone. That's an N edit there, no matter how popular she is on the Sucks board. Kenny wasn't quite as N as Crystal, but there was a clear N undertone to his edit also. I think one thing about this season that we could not have predicted was the importance of tribe tone as distinct from individual tone. Normally, it doesn't matter when a tribe gets a positive or a negative edit, because it gets reflected in tone ratings for individual members--Ps on Koror or Drake in Tom/Ian and Rupert, for example. But I noticed early on that Kota as a tribe was getting a very P edit without touching any actual members of Kota. We had a number of toneless episodes, or ones where there were actually Ns on Kota, but the tribe as a whole was P. The edits of the Onions were highly manipulated--particularly Corrine--to avoid negativity on Kota, or when it happens, foist it onto grumpy old Randy or pre-merge boot Dan. As viewers we were never supposed to be happy that Fang took control of the game after the second switch, because Marcus' boot paved the way for Bob's classic story of a fall from grace and ultimate redemption. That's also why Fang never received an underdog edit premerge like Ulong. All of this really did point to Bob's win, but how much is capable of being caught by Edgic?
chaperone		#4709	[-]
Posts: 2563 (12/15/08 03:15 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	colleenlover wrote: gee swim, I guess I missed the revisionist posts -all I see is most of us saying, "yeah, I was wrong this season." I've been reading the last 10 pages or so since the finale started airing and I felt the same thing...the talk isn't revisionist "how we picked Bob" it's backward looking to "why didn't we?" Of course I say "we" liberally since I didn't pick anyone here except Sugar, and given my track record of Gary Hogeboom, Snout, Amanda, and now Sugar, I'm hardly a voice crying out in the wilderness. I will say that as a viewer I'm quite satisfied with a Bob win. I kept thinking whenever strategy came up he should've mentioned that he made 2 fake idols and had several people believing that they were real, and that profoundly affected the ethos of the game. So I figured he was going to lose to Sugar. Then she got 0 votes and I was humbled. Edgic didn't work this season. Was it the edgic concept? Was it the execution? Was it the sociology of edgic? Was it the editors of the shoe? Who knows. It's probably all of the above. But since we can't change the editors of the show, let's meet back here in a couple of months and start talking about s18. Sounds fun to me. We might even get it wrong again. Good for us. It'll still be fun, and if so...it'll still be fun. MDN had a good post a few pages back about FTC's affect on the editing. I think a story mode is a more universal way to consider edgic, and the story starts, in a sense, at FTC and works backward from there. It's not that the other stuff is outright wrong, but I do believe there's another dimension to it all. Green Coffee had some good points about "type A" and "type B" edits. That said, I'd like it if the name-calling was left out of the discussion. Is that a new guideline proposal, FLF? As much as Edgic was wrong, the Family Final Four concept must be having a party this season. Mom and dad, brother and sister, clear as day. They even named it in FTC. I think Complex Tribe theory will continue to take some heat, but I believe it holds up well when evaluated correctly. ScepticA had some good thoughts...and asked a good question: What evidence to we have that the editors of Survivor, from the very first episode, know who the winner is? And without some reasonable certainty to the answer to this question, edgic is pointless. This is coming from a true fan of this (and all previous) edgic threads. Just wondering.... No doubt, this question is central to the praxis of edgic. I spent a short weekend with an editor from Burnett's production company (another show of his) and this editor was telling me (I posed some of my theories to him for feedback) that the winner of Survivor is kept significantly under wraps. He had no idea who won...which tells us nothing other than editors within SEG don't know about Survivor. Of course he didn't care about the show so didn't know characters in it this season. BUT even so, what edgic calls "editors" I've long since argued isn't actually the editors, it's the "story editors". There are layers to how the show is edited: Peons who log footage (probably aren't allowed to talk between the peons about what they logged AND FTC footage I would guess is logged by non-peon) Story editors who piece together the themes, key plot points, etc...may get as specific as to say which 7 utterances are critical for a tribal council later or may do a 1 page treatment of the story of each episode. Script writers who plug the peon's logged footage into a flushed out 5-act 42 page teleplay per episode...have no long term knowledge as long as the story editors do their job. Editors-A- who actually splice together peon-logged-footage as specified by the script writers. No knowlege of the winner unless you are the editor who cut the final episode. Editors-B- who then splice in b-roll footage (the snakes, the "day 29" stuff, the random stand-in's hands on the table, etc.) The only people we in edgic would really concern ourselves with are the story editors, and, of course, the producers. The studios have some say I imagine in saying "add more bikini's" or something, but not hard to weed out what content carries meat and which is to prop up viewership demographics. Who else know the winner? The camera operators in the voting confessional...unless they set those on tripods and force the crew to go back to base camp while 1 high level producer makes sure the footage isn't blurry, over or under lit, etc. I would maintain that the story editors know what's going on. How much do they talk about it? Who knows. My old friend who worked for the Amazing Race said that anyone who signed an NDA with the production company knew the winner. It doesn't sound like Survivor rolls the same way.
AbbyGirl		#4710	[-]
Posts: 20 (12/15/08 03:17 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Everyone is gifted. Some open the package sooner. Remove this ad Sorry about the lack of paragraghs everyone, I was in a hurry as I often am... and after all, this is Sucks!! Just kidding, I get the point and totally understand. Corinne could have won just as easily as Bob, but her edit would have to have been tweaked for less negativity. I gave up on her finally, but I really did want a former Onion to win. Craig has a good point about tribes that go to TC more and how it can change the edits. We probably would have seen more of Bob had Kota went to TC more in the first half. Same goes for Corinne, I thought they were hiding her for a reason but it may have been that her tribe was not going to TC so they just saved her story for later. Bob was UTR out there so they let his edit slide in the first half and showed him later when they actually had him doing something in the game. Danni seemed just as invisible as Bob at times in her season, Steph was the big story then and this season it was all Sugar....and of course the underdogs at Fang. Edgic failed, I failed. But often Edgic does pick the winner, and it's great at picking the end gamers before anyone else. It could use some tweaking, as I said earlier sometimes we need to take notice of early alliances in the first episodes, not just individual confessionals in the first fifteen minutes. I could do without some of the extreme negativity here. I liked Edgic because it wasn't as bad as the rest of Sucks. Snarkiness I can handle, but out right nastiness just isn't necessary. OO, I'm not suggesting a free for all or "anything goes" in Edgic, I was just making some suggestions for changes and what to look at next time around. You and the others can leave everything the same for all I care. I don't come here to make waves or fight so I don't get the hostility in your post. I have a right to my opinion as much as anyone else here. I don't say it's any better, but I do have a right to say what I'm thinking. Bash me if you want, but I agree with the posters who say Watch Dogs would come in handy. Maybe Bob would have been looked at closer if there were one person watching him and posting about just him. Sometimes players like Bob can get lost when there are so many other big players in the game.
cantthinkofaname		#4711	[-]
Posts: 1253 (12/15/08 03:39 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	swim4life227 wrote: In Astro's defense, you do realize what you guys are saying to him. He's a retard and stupid for picking Corrine to win. Is it just me or didn't ALL of you pick Marcus to win? Which one came closer to winning? Yeah. Case closed. Yeah uh, Marcus was a good pick based on edgic, Corinne was not. Case Closed. And on another note, will there be a VF chart for the finale? If not I can make one like I've done in the past.
craig		#4712	[-]
Posts: 14536 (12/15/08 04:22 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	As viewers we were never supposed to be happy that Fang took control of the game after the second switch, because Marcus' boot paved the way for Bob's classic story of a fall from grace and ultimate redemption. That's also why Fang never received an underdog edit premerge like Ulong. Remmeber Corinne's cry of "He didn't deserve that!" when she saw Marcus gone. Versus Kenny's response: "It's a game, not about deserving." Funny how most people took Kenny side, but in the end Corinne was right - this season was all about deserving. So Kenny and Crystal were bad for booting Jacquie, etc. And Sugar booted Kenny in order to help more deserving people. Corinne and Onion - deserving about strategy, winning challenges, surviving Sugar - deserving more about being nice Different concepts, but they come together in Bob.(except for the strategy) Ironically Corinne could have been mind-controlling Sugar the way she played the endgame to help Kota Bob. Last Edited By: craig 12/15/08 04:46 AM. Edited 1 times.
James Barber		#4713	[-]
Posts: 14787 (12/15/08 04:25 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	The scenes of Ken taunting Marcus, then Corinne, were when I pretty much ruled him out as winner. It was a good setup for his downfall in the game. I did think, for a few episodes, Crystal might win. I wonder if that was because the show knew she might have won if she'd made F3 with anyone but Bob or Matty.
Jedijake		#4714	[-]
Posts: 5351 (12/15/08 05:27 AM) MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Once again, Edgic does well when one tribe dominates the other. When there is relative chaos and alliances change all the time, Edgic does not fare so well.
dcsurvivor		#4715	[-]
Posts: 226 (12/15/08 05:50 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	It really was a STRANGE season....... On one hand, I am glad that we had a winner who was not predictable.....Like many others, I had picked Marcus as the winner from episode one, but I never had Kenny pegged as the winner. Something seemed off with his edit. Am I happy with Bob winning? Not really.......he sort of falls in the Vecepia and Danni category for me.......I wasn't happy they won, but I understood why they won. I have felt for a while that some of the challenges that Bob won were sort of geared for him......the one that stands out is the challenge where they had to retrieve the wheels and make them turn to raise the flag.......when I saw that I knew Bob's team would win......he's a science teacher, for god's sake.......Jeff was actually glowing at the reunion, he was extremely happy with Bob winning.....seemed a bit manufactured to me..... I am really sick and tired of bitter juries.......Corrine's speech made me want to puke.....someone needs to stab her in the face.......for real.....I can understand her hating Sugar because she hated everyone but herself, but I don't understand everyone else hating Sugar. What didn't we see? The only explaination we heard was she cried all the time? Okay, that is a reason for hating someone......Maybe Sugar shouldn;t have gone on the show so soon after her father died but, maybe she felt she needed a distraction. Then, she gets there and is isolated from everyone by being on exile so often. I just can't see why anyone would kick another person when they are down. I guess I am proud that I have better morals and values than that. Anyways, I personally felt Sugar should have won. Not because she had the best strategy the whole time.....she was, sometimes, all over the place.....However, I think she made the biggest moves out there and like she said, she was responsible for every person being on the jury except Marcus. Maybe if she had been a little older and more mature, she would have really kicked ass out there..... All in all, a GREAT season......after so many seasons with predictible outcomes, it was nice never knowing who was going home.....can't wait for next season..... And guys, don't beat yourself up so badly for not being able to pick the winner.....I think it wasn't edited that way on purpose......After 17 seasons, they are always looking for ways to change up the show.......Of course, it is usually done with challenges, game rules, and hidden immunity idols, but I think this season they were determined to screw with us with the winner and the editing....you can't tell me they never saw the whole Marcus penis fiasco when they were editing the show.......they left it in......after all, it's all about shock value and ratings...... Thank you, to all of you, for your insightful and colorful observations every season. It makes my Survivor viewing experience even more enjoyable! God bless. Last Edited By: dcsurvivor 12/15/08 05:52 AM. Edited 1 times.
speedyforme		#4716	[-]
Posts: 7820 (12/15/08 07:31 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Tyran Amiros wrote: Sugar had to go N (or at least M) in the final few episodes to explain why the Sweetheart didn't get any votes at the Final TC. My parents still wanted her to win the America's Tribal Council, though, after Bob won the million. About Crystal being N, all of the people I watch with cheered when she got booted Thursday. My parents actually called after the show to say how glad they were that Crystal was finally gone. That's an N edit there, no matter how popular she is on the Sucks board. Kenny wasn't quite as N as Crystal, but there was a clear N undertone to his edit also. I think one thing about this season that we could not have predicted was the importance of tribe tone as distinct from individual tone. Normally, it doesn't matter when a tribe gets a positive or a negative edit, because it gets reflected in tone ratings for individual members--Ps on Koror or Drake in Tom/Ian and Rupert, for example. But I noticed early on that Kota as a tribe was getting a very P edit without touching any actual members of Kota. We had a number of toneless episodes, or ones where there were actually Ns on Kota, but the tribe as a whole was P. The edits of the Onions were highly manipulated--particularly Corrine--to avoid negativity on Kota, or when it happens, foist it onto grumpy old Randy or pre-merge boot Dan. As viewers we were never supposed to be happy that Fang took control of the game after the second switch, because Marcus' boot paved the way for Bob's classic story of a fall from grace and ultimate redemption. That's also why Fang never received an underdog edit premerge like Ulong. All of this really did point to Bob's win, but how much is capable of being caught by Edgic? Agreed 100%, I haven't done Edgic in a while and this season, I was actually a casual viewer. Although as I started the season with edgic eyes, I screamed Marcus. Then I lost steam in this season and just "caught up" and once I saw Marcus gone, I was shocked and then disgusted at Crystal/Kenny/Sugar/Susie for everything post merge. I was even gonna stop watching altogether. Of course Crystal rocks in general, the editing made me dislike them very much from the beginning. So as a casual viewer this season, I LOVED THE ENDING because of Bob, he was the only one worth watching in the end.
NickF227		#4717	[-]
Posts: 5437 (12/15/08 07:53 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	You know, Bob probably didn't receive a typical winner's edit just because of how he acted. OTTP. And the editor's have always wanted an old man who was OTTP. We can see it with Rudy, TPTB wanted so bad for him to win. So, of course they were gonna edit Bob like that when he won. I love how they tried to edit Kota as happy happy P but when it comes to the FTC and reunion, there's no editing out their douchebagginess. XD
AndreSurvivor		#4718	[-]
Posts: 283 (12/15/08 08:14 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	dcsurvivor wrote: I am really sick and tired of bitter juries.......Corrine's speech made me want to puke.....someone needs to stab her in the face.......for real.....I can understand her hating Sugar because she hated everyone but herself, but I don't understand everyone else hating Sugar. What didn't we see? The only explaination we heard was she cried all the time? Okay, that is a reason for hating someone......Maybe Sugar shouldn;t have gone on the show so soon after her father died but, maybe she felt she needed a distraction. Then, she gets there and is isolated from everyone by being on exile so often. I just can't see why anyone would kick another person when they are down. I guess I am proud that I have better morals and values than that. Anyways, I personally felt Sugar should have won. Not because she had the best strategy the whole time.....she was, sometimes, all over the place.....However, I think she made the biggest moves out there and like she said, she was responsible for every person being on the jury except Marcus. Maybe if she had been a little older and more mature, she would have really kicked ass out there..... I think the issue with Sugar was that she cried all the time, and there's a certain point where no matter what the tragedy she's suffered, it's just a little too much. Plus, yes, she made moves and had a hand is eliminating everyone, but she never made a single move to better her position in the game; when she accidentally made good moves, it was because someone tricked her, and once she was playing on her own, she played for Bob/Matty to win. That isn't respectable, and is probably very frustrating if you're Kenny or Crystal and game logic doesn't seem to apply. She played a terrible, terrible jury game, ridiculing those not in her alliance and backstabbing everyone else--everyone. She made two alliances, and managed to stab them all in the back, and not only that, but she brings an alliance member of the majority of jury members to the end with her. Heck, she played so poorly that if Bob had been voted out and it was a Susie/Sugar F2 that Sugar would have probably still lost badly. Worst player I have ever had the misfortune of watching on Survivor in recent memory. At least Denise wanted to win, even if she sucked.
TheLurkerSpeaks		#4719	[-]
Posts: 1463 (12/15/08 08:22 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I haven't read any comments yet, but there's no way around it. Edgic did not work this season. Bob's edit does not fit any stretching of Edgic guidelines, and any attempt to say it does just weakens any credibility the theory has. The real question is whether this season is a real aberration or whether we just close the thread for good. I lean toward the former, and if naysayers want to criticize that as delusional, so be it. I do this for fun anyway. Edgic fits the winner more time than not. If we get an anti-Edgic winner every other time, it is time to close up shop, but 2 of 9 since All Stars is not there yet. It sucks that we'll have to condition every Edgic pick though with "unless the editors are going outside the box this time". Danni was easy to shrug off. The season was all about Stephenie, the returning player, and how she lost. Danni was just the player who snuck in and won when she wasn't looking. Bob? Well, I can only think that he didn't give the editors much to work with, and runner up Susie wasn't any better. So they built the story around the one player in the finals who didn't get any votes - Sugar. And since her story alone didn't do it, they incorporated Ken's story in as well, virtually ignoring the two finalists who actually got votes until the story required their inclusion. (Though Ken's story sure fell with a thud! That's the reality I guess, which makes me wonder why they didn't just go the villain route with him to begin with.) Strategy-wise, Sugar was a scorpion, dooming the lot of them to make sure Bob won. Her moves didn't improve her situation, and she didn't even think they would improve her situation. She was the anti-Rich, giving a glimpse of how the game may have evolved if a Pagong had won in the first season. What a disappointing end to the season! Sure, we could go back and find moments hinting at Bob's win, but all of them fit the nice kind of moments the OTTP characters usually get so they don't tell us much in and of themselves. Anyone in this thread crowing because they picked Bob because he best fit the "theme" of the season, congratulations. But now, get out of this thread. I don't care if you were right or not - you weren't applying Edgic, and you don't belong in this thread.
tmtomhJanet		#4720	[-]
Posts: 279 (12/15/08 09:47 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Everyone is gifted. Some open the package sooner. Remove this ad I'm not convinced working backwards from the FTC works this season. There were a few things the jurors said that I had no idea what they were talking about. Marcus attacked Susie for not being a good role model. Yes, she turned on him and voted him out but that hardly seemed like the whole story behind that statement. Susie supposedly talked all the time and annoyed everyone. I think Corrine mentioned that once in what of her negative rants but it was never shown. Even with what we did see at the FTC and show, I still don't get how Susie got 3 votes. Were they all just anti-Sugar, anti-Bob? She was way too ignored for the 2nd place finisher. It wasn't just Bob who got a strange edit this season. Two of the people who didn't have a chance according to edgic got all the votes. Is is possible the editors really didn't even know who was F3 when they put this season together?

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S-17 Edgic (editing and logic) Gabon