S-17 Edgic (editing and logic) Gabon

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getting real		#4961	[-]
Posts: 1472 (12/18/08 2:55 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Scep, just because you now agree with me on the futility of imposing guidelines on right hemisphere activity, the conclusion that this kind of activity should have its own separate thread doesn't necessarily follow. As I suggested, most people, including a lot of the 'purists', already use a hybrid form of analysis. After all, most people enjoy the benefits of being endowed with two hemispheres, not one. And, barring any descent of these boards into dictatorship, I shall continue to do what I've been doing all along.
Kitty Pryde1		#4962	[-]
Posts: 7494 (12/18/08 2:59 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	getting real wrote: Scep, just because you now agree with me on the futility of imposing guidelines on right hemisphere activity, the conclusion that this kind of activity should have its own separate thread doesn't necessarily follow. As I suggested, most people, including a lot of the 'purists', already use a hybrid form of analysis. After all, most people enjoy the benefits of being endowed with two hemispheres, not one. And, barring any descent of these boards into dictatorship, I shall continue to do what I've been doing all along. Already happened. Hence people thinking Corinne was a viable winner choice.
Green Coffee		#4963	[-]
Posts: 146 (12/18/08 4:22 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	getting real wrote: Scep, just because you now agree with me on the futility of imposing guidelines on right hemisphere activity, the conclusion that this kind of activity should have its own separate thread doesn't necessarily follow. As I suggested, most people, including a lot of the 'purists', already use a hybrid form of analysis. After all, most people enjoy the benefits of being endowed with two hemispheres, not one. And, barring any descent of these boards into dictatorship, I shall continue to do what I've been doing all along. You're misconstruing the issue and painting it as if theme has a monopoly on "right brain" analysis. It doesn't. It simply uses exclusively right-brain analysis. Edgic uses both (and their right brain analysis is a completely different kind - interpreting the fit of data to theory). Edgic is NOT anti-right brain analysis and I think that no one is making that argument. Instead, Edgic is about combining objectivity and subjectivity. No one in Edgic uses a purely left-brain analysis because it isn't possible. There is no entirely mathematical formula for the winner that does not require subjective interpretation (if there is and I've missed it, someone needs to point it out). You're acting as if the combination of "left and right" comes from two different camps using two different types. Instead, one side uses both and the other side uses only one. The reason people are calling for separate threads is due to the ABSENCE of objectivity in theme, not because of the INCLUSION of subjectivity. Is that justified? I don't know. But I think I'm pretty clear on why it's being suggested.
CAPSattack		#4964	[-]
Posts: 363 (12/18/08 4:32 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	LOL INTERNET E FIGHTS OVER FLAWED LOGIC
getting real		#4965	[-]
Posts: 1473 (12/18/08 4:38 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	GC said: Instead, Edgic is about combining objectivity and subjectivity. No one in Edgic uses a purely left-brain analysis because it isn't possible. There is no entirely mathematical formula for the winner that does not require subjective interpretation (if there is and I've missed it, someone needs to point it out). OK, good, it's settled then. Now that we can acknowledge the subjectivity elephant in Edgic's room, can we agree that almost everyone uses story/theme analysis to varying degrees and get on with S18? Last Edited By: getting real 12/18/08 5:28 PM. Edited 1 times.
Green Coffee		#4966	[-]
Posts: 147 (12/18/08 4:48 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	You're cherry picking the argument and ignoring anything that points out the differences between the approaches. If that really makes you feel better about your position there isn't much for us to discuss on this, then. Best of luck.
TheLurkerSpeaks		#4967	[-]
Posts: 1490 (12/18/08 4:52 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Whoo, GR! Great job tackling that straw man argument! Now maybe you'll address the real differences, namely that Edgic has a foundation to work off of, and you ... don't.
getting real		#4968	[-]
Posts: 1474 (12/18/08 5:15 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	GC, I've got nothing against what you say; in fact, I agree with it. But you talk about absence of objectivity in my approach when I have made it abundantly clear that my use of both 'traditional' and story/theme analyses is enough to put to bed any accusations about lack of objectivity. To use Scep's stated criteria for traditional Edgic, I'm happy to use 'CP, OTT and SPV' and the entire formulaic Edgic arsenal as an awesomely useful tool, even though I don't think Edgic can really claim exclusive authorship of the term SPV. (I'm joking Scep, I know you were only using those abbrevations indicatively). All I'm saying is that almost everyone is already using a combination of formula and story/theme based analysis. I will, once again, rephrase an earlier question: If the proponents of a separate thread have their way, will CL be asked to go there based on her stated methodology?
cindidindi76		#4969	[-]
Posts: 14119 (12/18/08 5:38 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I thought cl was a he? I need this cleared up IMMEDIATELY!!! PS. Yuku spell check apparently recognizes cl as a word.
getting real		#4970	[-]
Posts: 1475 (12/18/08 5:46 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I thought cl was a he? I need this cleared up IMMEDIATELY!!! OMG! If he is, my penance should be moving to a new thread immediately! Instead, I'll have to settle for begging for his forgiveness, if you're right, Cindi. MEA CULPA!
cantthinkofaname		#4971	[-]
Posts: 1264 (12/18/08 6:02 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	So, any ratings anyone has to share? I don't know what I'm going to give. These are my tentative ratings Ken - MOR2 Matty - MORP3 Sugar - ?M4 Susie - CPP4 Bob - CP3
unduli clone		#4972	[-]
Posts: 3594 (12/18/08 6:11 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Hm. Kenny - MOR2 Matty - MORP3 Sugar - CPM4 Susie - OTTM4 Bob - CP4
getting real		#4973	[-]
Posts: 1476 (12/18/08 6:45 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I'm advancing the OTT argumnent for Sugar. Anyone shown to be basing a million dollar decision on the final dip or rise of an emotiotional roller coaster and answering questions as if she didn't care about winning is not CP. Yes, we got inside her head but, to understand her actual decisions, we had to go inside her heart. That's OTT.
BlakeB717		#4974	[-]
Posts: 1256 (12/18/08 6:50 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I just sent my finale ratings. My computer lost connection when I sent them the first time; not sure if it sent more than once.
BlakeB717		#4975	[-]
Posts: 1257 (12/18/08 6:52 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Also, once the finale ratings are all in and posted (completing the chart), then I will again this season take up the role of tallying and keeping track of overall seasonal ratings if that is OK with everybody. Last Edited By: BlakeB717 12/18/08 7:44 PM. Edited 1 times.
cantthinkofaname		#4976	[-]
Posts: 1265 (12/18/08 7:25 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Ok with me
panurge46		#4977	[-]
Posts: 1172 (12/18/08 8:04 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	TheLurkerSpeaks wrote: Now maybe you'll address the real differences, namely that Edgic has a foundation to work off of, and you ... don't. Somethings just make me laugh. Thematic approach to story-telling doesn't have foundation? So, for example, if I say that Milton's Paradise Lost has many big themes like: - Mariage - Predestination vs free will - Obedience vs Making Wise choices Then my analysis has no merit at all? Themes in stories have been studied for centuries. Edgic, not so much. Now, if you're saying that the editors don't try to make a coherent story, one from which the winner emerges, then it's pointless to share our view of Survivor. But I'll question why you're even trying to analyze the editing. For those who demand guidelines in finding themes, I could suggest you enroll in a course on litterature. For those who believe that Themes don't eliminate anyone, I used the thematic approach to rule out many edgic favorites. To name a few in the last 3 seasons: - Marcus and Kenny - Eliza (almost an automatic), Cirie, Tracy. (And Jonathan but I'm not sure if he ever was an edgic contender) - Peih Gee. Yes, I had Corinne has winner for a long time but I already acknowledged that I had misread the season's theme. I saw problems with my pick by mid-season but kept with it partly by stubborness but also because of misdirections. Like that preview after the recrap where Jeff asked: "The question is: Will Sugar choose good (Matty shown) or Evil (Corinne shown)?" Sugar's choice was between Matty and Kenny, Not Matty and Corinne. I'm sorry for the mistake but I went with what we were shown. Isn't that edgic?
getting real		#4978	[-]
Posts: 1477 (12/18/08 8:36 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	C'mon, Panurge. Even the contestants follow Edgic. Didn't you see how Corinne was uspset at the Reunion because she knew that the string of early INVs had killed off her winning chances? OK, she used the term 'wall-flower', but we all knew she meant INV. She knew she was toast as soon as she saw her edit!
panurge46		#4979	[-]
Posts: 1173 (12/18/08 8:45 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Actually, she said she wasn't portrayed enough as a bitch which was a reason why I thought her edit was being manipulated. She always seemed quiet in front of others, only blowing-up in confessionals. The editors had me fooled.
Casey333		#4980	[-]
Posts: 638 (12/18/08 8:52 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	The editors had me fooled. Which is where edgic comes in. Edgic having rightfully eliminated her after her INV episode. I agree 100% with CSC. Survivor has become so focused on strategy in recent seasons, that when you get a winner who doesn't strategize at all (Bob) or one who strategizes off-camera (Danni), the editors don't have much to work with. Really, how much time can they spend showing Bob working on his arts and crafts? Also, it seems to be an unwritten rule that one member of the final 3 has to get the Becky edit. Bob was the winner and Sugar was a huge character, so Susie got stuck with the Becky edit by default.

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S-17 Edgic (editing and logic) Gabon