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 cindidindi76 |
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Posts: 17048 (04/17/09 5:51 PM) Registered User |
ncassaro wrote: I'm almost hoping she gets booted before the finale, because I think that may be the only way she's going to get any airtime, lol. Which is too bad, because she actually seems fun. |
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Plumpynut Saves |
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Posts: 21 (04/17/09 5:55 PM) |
I'm confused. Am I the only one who thinks this episode was absolutely disastrous for JT? If he was to be crucified at the end of it to bring us all salvation, it wouldn't feel out of place, tone-wise. He was CPPP4. If he weren't, who ever can be? Every single character had to take a time out of the actual game of survivor and talk about how eternally awesome JT is and how their only wish is to bask in his glow. Brendan, who was until now edited as somewhat of a savvy player, decided to ACTIVELY TRY AND WIN THE GAME FOR JT, since he's JUST SO GREAT. How's that for doubt?
You know what did this episode do an awesome job at? Justifying Stephen's inevitable betrayal of JT, as he goes on to either win the game or, and I just kind of thought about that option, lose to his goat because the jury will be pissed they can't vote for JT. This keeps, as I see it, Stephen, Erinn, Sierra and I guess Tyson alive. In that order. Notice him going "Why would Brendan want to let you near the final?" comment? I think it was there for a reason. I just cannot imagine JT sitting in that chair at the end. How will the jury questioning go? "JT man, just wanted to say I think your eyes hold the essence of earnestness and glory. I hope to someday spend more time in your presence. Thank you. Person Sitting Next to JT, why must you crowd him so? Give him some room".
Stephen, on the other hand, got major development tying in to his season's arc of adjusting to the wilderness (using JT!), was understated and included in a very important strategy scene (a "Wer'e in control" scene, which isn't good unless the person next to you is this huge balloon of a character, and you are almost unnoticeable in the background. Actually being in control). And hey, Brendan just told us he decided to ACTIVELY TRY AND WIN THE GAME FOR JT, since he's JUST SO GREAT, which JT is shown to KNOW, and who do Stephen and JT, who decide, vote for? Brendan. That is not a smart play on JT's part, and brilliant play on Stephen's. And it was understated, as it should be, but it's there.
I'm sorry; I'm just not seeing the JT support. Like, at all. How can the story progress from here to a JT win, while still being at all suspenseful? And what about Stephen's Wrong First Impression about him being easy to be led around? The Stephen we were shown up to now will never let JT in the finals. This is building up to something.
Rating's wise:
Ben - OTTN5 Brendan - CPM5 Debee - UTR1 Erinn - MOR2 \ cUTR2 (I still think it's a good idea) JT - CPPP4 Sierra - UTR2 Stephen - CPP4 Taj - MOR2 Tyson - CPN2\cUTR2 ETA - This was supposed to be posted under the dumb name DeadNotSleeping, instead of this very dumb name that I would have deleted if I had any inclination to learn how to. I'll try to keep it together in the future.
Last Edited By: Plumpynut Saves
04/17/09 6:04 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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therooboy |
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Posts: 3 (04/17/09 6:07 PM) |
Jedijake wrote: I'm not disputing getting rid of Tyson or your synopsis, which i agree is probably similiar to how it will pan out. I'm just saying it gives Stephen, Taj & even Erinn an extra vote in Sierra to vote out JT, at will if desired, after pagonging Douche/boy wonder/Deb. Probably wont happen, but it gives players options. |
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augustus713 |
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Posts: 80 (04/17/09 6:10 PM) |
therooboy wrote:Not really, even if they got rid of Sierra first, Stephen and Taj could still use Debbie after they get rid of Coach and Tyson. It really makes no difference at all. |
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getting real |
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Posts: 1640 (04/17/09 6:13 PM) Registered User |
Just a reminder:
Speculation about 'how' what will happen can happen isn't really the point here. Game reality isn't important to Edgic. Only the editing reality. |
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Jedijake |
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Posts: 5617 (04/17/09 6:19 PM) MESS member |
Not sure what that means gettingreal-you confused me.
One thing that both Stephen and JT are smart enough to realize is that they, along with Taj, need one more person to take out Coach/Tyson/Deb. The next thing they hopefully realize is that they may as well trump it by taking TWO weaker people to lock it up. Two things Stephen said last night that made me think. One: he came right out and said "why would he want that?" when JT said that Brendan wanted to take him to the end. Second: at TC, Steve said that he was glad JT was around because he's a bigger target Stephen (and Taj) already know they can't keep JT around forever. |
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ncassaro |
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Posts: 980 (04/17/09 7:07 PM) |
If Stephen does blindside JT, that is pretty scummy. I don't think they'd be editing it like this if that happened. Notice how Parvati taking out
Ozzy didn't seem so bad because Ozzy had been acting like a douche for weeks? That's editing. If Stephen were our winner and he blindsided JT, both
would have gotten different edits. If Stephen blindsides JT the way things are set up now, I don't think he wins.
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Jedijake |
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Posts: 5620 (04/17/09 7:25 PM) MESS member |
If that happens, it will be WAY down the road, like the final 3 or 4.
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taks |
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Posts: 108 (04/17/09 7:26 PM) |
ncassaro wrote:This. A million times this. As it is now, Stephen could be the winner. If he wins, I think it is in a F2 against JT. I don't think Erinn/Sierra have enough of an edit to be sitting in a F2 facing a jury. I could see them as the F3 loser who gets no votes, but I'm pretty sure they're having an F2 this year (Or a crazy 6 person jury?). JT might look "too good" right now, but if he's sitting at the F2, then he clearly voted out SOMEONE who is on his side right now (as in, in this next vote he will vote someone out on his side). I don't know how this will be edited, but that should be telling as to how JT fairs in the long run. At this point, a JT/Stephen F2 is the only one I'd realistically expect. |
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9RedWing19 |
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Posts: 2528 (04/17/09 7:37 PM) Registered User |
I don't think Erinn/Sierra have enough of an edit to be sitting in a F2 facing a jury. Are their edits that much worse than F2 Danni, Danielle, or S16-Amanda? I doubt Sierra will be UTR1 next episode.
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 fat little fingers |
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Posts: 6063 (04/17/09 7:38 PM) Registered User |
"JT man, just wanted to say I think your eyes hold the essence of earnestness and glory. I hope to someday spend more time in your presence. Thank you. Person Sitting Next to JT, why must you crowd him so? Give him some room". ROTFLMAO! To be nominated for funniest line of the season. And so true. |
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sunflower101 |
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Posts: 4515 (04/17/09 7:55 PM) |
dcsurvivor wrote:I don't think JT or Stephen are going to turn on each other. I do think it is possible that either are blindsided by others though. Stephen never fully trusted Brendan going back to the time they spent together on exile island. I think he say Brendan as somewhat of a used car salesman. Remember he thought about voting out Taj to control the only idol. He probably wanted Brendan out, because he didn't trust him and wanted Brendan's idol gone. Now that isn't how I would view Brendan, but how I think Stephen viewed Brendan. I think he thought that Brendan was just feeding JT BS. Remember Brendan had previously wanted to vote out JT. |
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taks |
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Posts: 109 (04/17/09 7:59 PM) |
9RedWing19 wrote:I'm not sure if Sierra/Erinn's edits are much worse. The difference to me is that in their respective seasons (well Danielle and Amanda... I didn't actually ever watch S11), the Edgic front runners were far less positive. It was conceivable to an average viewer that Parv/Aras could lose a jury vote. There was some suspense in the jury stage of the game. I expect the outcome to always be a little suspenseful. At this point, it seems like there would be no suspense if Sierra was sitting in the final tribal against anyone. Granted, that could change at any time, but the girl is not getting a very convincing edit. Erinn I could see a case for still, but I can't see the story the editors are setting up if she does end up in the F2. To me, the season has been a story of Stephen/JT overcoming first impressions and forming an unlikely friendship. They've made decisions together during the game (though this is probably the case in reality, the edit just further confirms them as a pair) and gone to each other for help at every turn. At one end, you have the ridiculously likeable country guy who thought he might drown in the hectic social game and at the other you have the "anxious New York Jew" who is physically awkward but strategically brilliant. I can't see Stephen blindsiding JT without getting a negative edit after all this build up of their friendship. Basically, the focus on their friendship throughout the game seems unnecessary (and contradictory) if Stephen simply blindsides JT. We wouldn't need the lengthy set up of their friendship, it could simply be introduced to us in one scene and sort of forgotten. The personal comments could be left on the cutting room floor. In other news, I hear next episode Stephen blindsides JT which eventually leads to Sierra beating Erinn in a 7-0 jury vote! |
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colleenlover |
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Posts: 9130 (04/17/09 8:00 PM) Registered User |
this isn't edgic, but since I don't really venture out- in regards to why it would be dumb for JT to get rid of Tyson, I don't think it's
about that. It would be Jalepo taking whatever option they can get.
In reality, all they know are all these different people coming up to them with different scenarios. (Brendan; Tyson and Coach; Erinn) And like Stephen said to JT about Brenden wanting him to win, "why would he do that?" the same has to be said of the aftermath of this council. Erinn was in on Tyson's vote splitting plan- how do JT and company know they are still a foursome; rumors of Erinn being an outsider premerge, her talk to JT. But then she's in on their voting plan- will give them pause, and again, why would Erinn (from JT and Stephen's perspective) want to go with them? At council, she praised Tyson. Stephen, JT, and Taj don't know what the real dymanics are between Coach, Erinn, Debbie and Tyson -and the four of them might be snowing them to get over the hump of Sierra and Brendan. Now with the votes have been made public, Sierra has been revealed as on the outs and thrown to the wolves. There's no where for the info to hide. So even if Erinn wants to join them in her reality, if next episode she goes to Jalepo and says let's boot Sierra and then switch it up, it causes Jalepo to pause, "why are we going to cross our fingers and hope she's telling us the truth?" -if Sierra basically throws in the towel but decides to tilt the game in jalepo's favor, S,JT, T have to force Erinn's hand in a 4/4 showdown. does that make sense? from my pov, if I'm playing the game and I'm a Jalepo, no way I'm going to believe Erinn (or the rest of this clusterfuck) is just going to hand over their majority. Most likely (again, my POV) they had to be crafty because they had two unreliables (Brendan and Sierra) and had to give us some story to keep us occupied while they cleaned house and retained the numbers. Even if in reality, Timberia is a clusterfuck. |
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sunflower101 |
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Posts: 4516 (04/17/09 8:02 PM) |
craig wrote:I think Stephen wins, but I think he could beat JT in a vote. Remember the huge focus on nobody could beat Amanda, but they did. I think if JT helps blindside Coach that Coach is going to hold a grudge. He has a huge mancrush on JT. Coach thinks he is mister intergrity. He is going to think anyone is a liar that votes him out in a blindside. Remember JT made a handshack deal with Coach for a final 5 alliance. That doesn't mean JT is in the final 2 with Stephen. I just think it means that Stephen has a greater chance to beat JT in a final 2 vote then people think. |
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sunflower101 |
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Posts: 4517 (04/17/09 8:08 PM) |
taks wrote:Coach thinks he is mister honesty. JT made a hand shack deal with Coach. I think if Coach is blindsided by JT/Stephen he is going to be a lot more pissed at JT. I think Stephen wins and I am wandering if JT"s big edit is similar to Yul/Ozzy. There was a lot of debate as to who would win Yul or Ozzy. Stephen isn't who I want to win, but I think he is the winner. |
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DeadNotSleeping |
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Posts: 10 (04/17/09 8:22 PM) |
I now present to you - Nice stuff people say about JT
- "The reward was so much fun. The pure joy that was on JT's face; to see how much he just soaks up and appreciates it… What a great soul. He's so sincere, so real… All qualities that… you want in people that surround you". - "If I take JT to the finals with me, he's gonna beat me… If he wins it, that's like me winning this game" - "We had an awesome time; he is such a good dude. Debee had such a good time with him" - "[JT] is one of the most amazing people I have ever met in my life" - "He said 'I really like JT, I think JT deserves to be here', and I feel the same way" - "It would absolutely break my heart to send JT home" - "Yesterday, on the trip, I talked to JT… He is such a good dude" - "I love [JT] to death and I don't want him to go"
That's a lot. And Coach too had his "Isn't JT GREAT???" moment last episode. Even Tyson likes him. I really think he was CPPP. This was exceptional treatment. Just consider it. I mean, what WOULD make him PP?
Stephen and JT
Now, I agree that JT is going to piss some people off if he gets to the F2, but if he's getting there with Stephen (which is your assumption and a good one), then Stephen has back stabbed the exact same people. And he doesn't make the sun shine brighter with his smile and all, so JT still has the upper hand. I just don't see the jury hatefully turning on JT in Stephen's favor all of the sudden. They think he's magic.
And I think that if Stephen was to backstab JT to win this is exactly how he would be edited - keep him mildly positive, yet very analytical and bright and un-trusting. You kind of like him, and you respect his game, but you know he's up to no good. He plotted to vote off Taj and keep her immunity idol with JT what? Two episodes ago? It goes back to Erinn's words about trust - Don't Do It. And I think if this whole "We Must Praise JT" thing is about the jury not voting for Stephen out of spite, Erinn is the most likely candidate to take the win, which would tie things up very neatly.
That was, of course, wild speculation regarding the editors' intent. The important point was… Stephen has been edited exactly like someone who won't let JT into the finals, despite their friendship. Branden wanted to get JT into the finals… look what happened to him. |
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colleenlover |
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Posts: 9132 (04/17/09 8:23 PM) Registered User |
If JT and Stephen were the final two and JT did in fact win, how would this be edited differently?
Stephen has been shown having the upperhand repeatedly with JT, and JT being naive. There's tension right there. Maybe with all the JT love, a lot of that comes back in the council, where he answers a lot of questions about a handshake, honor etc. Doubt. just playing the Devil's Advocate. especially after last season when Bob won. It's about working backwards from the dramatic event. Usually that's the winner. Last season, the winner was an afterthought compared to the Sugar/Dad story. but it's all about working backwards. |
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DeadNotSleeping |
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Posts: 11 (04/17/09 9:03 PM) |
colleenlover wrote: If that was the case, I think the JT-LOVE would have been toned down A LOT. Handshakes and trust are fine, but I don't have to hear about what an amazing human being he is from half the players. Also - the whole Stephen turning on JT, for me, is coming more from Stephen's arc than from JT's. I'll elaborate:
In the first scene of the season, Sandy's First Impression of Stephen was "A geeky guy that would be easy to lead around". That first impressions, like ALL OTHERS (YES) this season, is false. Stephen has told us he is purposefully playing goofy sidekick to JT, because it suits his interests. Stephen has since shown great reserve and introspection regarding who he trusts, contemplated turning on Taj (an ally) and keeping her idol, and was the first member of the Exile Alliance to express some reserve regarding it instead of going "We're number one!".
And really, all Stephen has to say to justify turning on JT is "I can't beat him". The audience will surely nod along, since we are being hit over the head with the idea that JT is sunshine and hope. If he is actually emotional about it, which I can see him being as I think he actually really likes him, he can even get the audience to sympathize with him somewhat. This episode was the perfect justification for taking JT out. You would actually be very stupid not to. Stephen has not been edited as stupid.
And I agree with you about the dramatic event - I think the dramatic event this season is building up to is Stephen blindsiding JT. It's all there -
"He said he wants to get me to the finals" - "That's Crazy".
Now weather Stephen wins after that, I'm less sure. The excessive JT expousure can either be there to explain to the audiance why he turned on him, or explain why the jury punished him for it. He probably does win, since he has far and away the best edit at this point in my opinion. I guess it could be Erinn or Sierra, though. Both would make sense, especially Sierra's UTRN-ness as of late.
And just for the record - I have never been right about anything before, ever. Edgic wise. |
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getting real |
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Posts: 1641 (04/17/09 9:30 PM) Registered User |
- "Just a reminder: Jedijake, what I meant was, there's no point in being concerned about how something comes about game-wise. The beauty of editing logic is that, regardless of how things look in the reality of the game, certain things have already been factored into the editing and they will become apparent (as if by magic!  ) at the end. Editing
works backward frpm the end, after all.
Take Jalapao. Coming into the merge, their game position was hopeless, given the numbers. Because of the editing, we knew better. Take Sierra, for another example. Game-wise, her own position right now appears hopeless. Yet, the editing tells us that she will last far into the game. That's why I advocate not being concerned about the mechanics how things come about. All we have to do is identify what the editing is telling us. |
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