S18 - Episode 12 - Story Arcs in MESS Hall Tribal Council Forum

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S18 - Episode 12 - Story Arcs

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rower	Episode 12 - Story Arcs	#81	[-]
Posts: 2084 (05/13/09 09:00 AM) Registered User More Recent Posts	Ads no more Remove this ad Orange and Trix - I am with both of you in this one. Both of your posts ^^^ pretty articulate what I think/feel about a final 3 of Stephen/Taj/JT. No matter how its done and you may not agree with the "tactics" employed but getting to the end is a feat that deserves kudos. The Jollypals have played a flawless game to date and have earned their places in Survivor lore. No one can take that away from them.
rower	Episode 12 - Story Arcs	#82	[-]
Posts: 2086 (05/13/09 09:21 AM) Registered User More Recent Posts	If the final three is Taj/JT/Stephen and Stephen has a final two alliance with both Taj and JT. He [Stephen] may decide to step out of the challenge because then he will not be the one picking who is in the final two thereby breaking his promise to other person he has made a "final two" promise with. ... which could translate into the tie-breaking vote being cast Stephens way.
Martrae		#83	[-]
Posts: 1800 (05/13/09 09:25 AM) MESS member More Recent Posts	Well, Stephen has said twice now that I can remember that maybe he doesn't want to go to the F2 with JT. Can we expect him to make his move at F4?
CFmomma		#84	[-]
Posts: 3292 (05/13/09 09:53 AM) MESS member More Recent Posts	Martrae wrote: Well, Stephen has said twice now that I can remember that maybe he doesn't want to go to the F2 with JT. Can we expect him to make his move at F4? Not sure if he has the balls to do it Martrae but he is running out of time to make that move.
Tubolar		#85	[-]
Posts: 34 (05/13/09 10:18 AM) Registered User More Recent Posts	When discussing the reason why the outnumbered tribe practically got handed the win, many have pointed out it is because the Timburia tribe was so dysfunctional. What hasn't been analyzed is why. I think the blame can be placed almost entirely on coach. He started alienating tribe members who weren't in his alliance practically from day one - first Sierra, then Candice, Erinn and Brendan. He has no concept of "keeping your friends close and your enemies closer". I think JT and Stephen have played an excellent game. One of their best qualities is their ability to be flexible and reevaulate who should be voted off at each juncture. But for the most part, it has been almost too easy for them.
erickman		#86	[-]
Posts: 20602 (05/13/09 10:29 AM) MESS member More Recent Posts	Tubolar wrote: When discussing the reason why the outnumbered tribe practically got handed the win, many have pointed out it is because the Timburia tribe was so dysfunctional. What hasn't been analyzed is why. I think the blame can be placed almost entirely on coach. He started alienating tribe members who weren't in his alliance practically from day one - first Sierra, then Candice, Erinn and Brendan. He has no concept of "keeping your friends close and your enemies closer". I think JT and Stephen have played an excellent game. One of their best qualities is their ability to be flexible and reevaulate who should be voted off at each juncture. But for the most part, it has been almost too easy for them. yea lets see what hapens if they let roach play again, i think if they did it would be like a steph bobby jon thing, not a full or half ass. i can see roach as a 1st boot.
birdlady		#87	[-]
Posts: 2632 (05/13/09 11:19 AM) Registered user More Recent Posts	I think the blame can be placed almost entirely on coach. He started alienating tribe members who weren't in his alliance practically from day one - first Sierra, then Candice, Erinn and Brendan. But yet, he has already outlasted almost everyone on his team. So perhaps, he chose a strategy which got him furthest in the game. If one person gets "blame" for all of Timbira, I think it's Brendan and his hands-off management style. Ben was obviously a problem from the beginning, on a personal level, even before they got to post-merge strategy. From his post-boot interviews, Brendan recognized that. The rest of the tribe identified Brendan as their desired leader. He chose to lead them in keeping a teamate who was "weak" and "predictable", while setting up a stronger side alliance himself. Imagine if they had booted Ben instead of Jerry. Slightly weaker physically, maybe, so they lose another challenge, boot Jerry then, and still are up 5-4 at the merge (and Brendan still has his CTA). Brendan seems like a great guy, but he just wasn't driven to do what it took to win.
Tubolar		#88	[-]
Posts: 35 (05/13/09 11:41 AM) Registered User More Recent Posts	Yeah, there is plenty of blame to go around on that tribe. Tyson and Debbie could also be blamed for aligning with Coach and letting him be the leader. Usually, it's a good strategy to let someone else be the leader and have the target on their back. But to have that target, they need to be a threat of some sort, physically, mentally or socially. Coach was none of those. They should have recognized their mistake within the first couple of days, dropped Coach, and rallied around Brendan. If Brendan had more support from the start, he probably would not have pursued his exile alliance. Instead, both Tyson and Debbie are gone, voted out as bigger threats and Coach lives on! But despite these mistakes by Tyson, Debbie and Brendan, I still maintain that Coach was the "cancer" that caused a tribe that had a 6-3 lead to self-destruct. He created such a divisiveness within his tribe that they couldn't even come together to save themselves. Last Edited By: Tubolar 05/13/09 01:04 PM. Edited 2 times.
rower	Episode 12 - Story Arcs	#89	[-]
Posts: 2087 (05/13/09 01:40 PM) Registered User More Recent Posts	Ads no more Remove this ad I agree with Tubolar that Coach was the "weakest link"/ cancer in the tribe. Coach hadn't even gotten to camp on day one before he started causing divisions in his tribe. Brenden was the "enabler." By sitting on the sidelines and making the EI alliance rather than shoring up his own tribe mates first, he left himself exposed. Had Brenden been a bit more open and communicated more with Debbi and Tyson, who knows where this game would have gone. We know that Stephen does not "want" to go to the final two with JT. But if Stephen doesn't get JT out before final three, will he try for the final 3 win and pick Taj (thereby alienating JT) or will he let JT or Taj win KNOWING that he has final two deals with both JT and Taj? I can see several scenerios where there is a final three "blindside" involving either JT or Stephen.
rower		#90	[-]
Posts: 2088 (05/13/09 01:41 PM) Registered User More Recent Posts	CFmomma wrote: Martrae wrote: Well, Stephen has said twice now that I can remember that maybe he doesn't want to go to the F2 with JT. Can we expect him to make his move at F4? Not sure if he has the balls to do it Martrae but he is running out of time to make that move. Oh, I think Stephen would have the balls but can he win the Spider Challenge? I'm thinking this one has JT written all over it.
urrout		#91	[-]
Posts: 1871 (05/13/09 02:11 PM) Registered user More Recent Posts	We have seen Stephen ask Taj at least twice if they could trust or count on Erinn. Seems like something should come of this and perhaps involving Stephen.
I LUV TIJUANA		#92	[-]
Posts: 12837 (05/13/09 02:25 PM) Registered user More Recent Posts	Still no Probst preview?
cindidindi76		#93	[-]
Posts: 17861 (05/13/09 03:57 PM) Registered User More Recent Posts	Oh, I think Stephen would have the balls but can he win the Spider Challenge? I'm thinking this one has JT written all over it. Part of that would depend on the size of the "legs", imo. If they're kinda small, Erinn and Stephen may ahve an easier time getting through them, plus who knows what the puzzle aspect may be. We've seen Stephen can make up a buttload of time on a puzzle.
sunflower101		#94	[-]
Posts: 4613 (05/13/09 04:04 PM) More Recent Posts	rower wrote: CFmomma wrote: Martrae wrote: Well, Stephen has said twice now that I can remember that maybe he doesn't want to go to the F2 with JT. Can we expect him to make his move at F4? Not sure if he has the balls to do it Martrae but he is running out of time to make that move. Oh, I think Stephen would have the balls but can he win the Spider Challenge? I'm thinking this one has JT written all over it. The problem with JT being around for Stephen I think is this. He couldn't vote him out yet based on the numbers and the fact he is someone that wouldn't vote Stephen out. He also needs to keep JT around as insurance long enough because JT would take Stephen to the final 2. The problem is now that the numbers are low enough to be able to vote out JT like you said JT can go on an immunity winning streak.
rower	Episode 12 - Story Arcs	#95	[-]
Posts: 2091 (05/13/09 05:55 PM) Registered User More Recent Posts	JT goes on an immunity streak? Possibly fulfilling Stephen's comment that he made when they [JT/Stephen] were discussing the Tyson boot. Stephen said it was a good move because Tyson could go on an immunity streak and Stephen said [to JT] "I would rather see you go on an immunity streak." Does that come true? It is possible that JT could win the last four immunity challenges.... not saying he does but he definitely could. It could make Stephen's desire to take out JT a moot point if JT is immune to the end.
rower		#96	[-]
Posts: 2094 (05/13/09 08:58 PM) Registered User More Recent Posts	cindidindi76 wrote: Oh, I think Stephen would have the balls but can he win the Spider Challenge? I'm thinking this one has JT written all over it. Part of that would depend on the size of the "legs", imo. If they're kinda small, Erinn and Stephen may ahve an easier time getting through them, plus who knows what the puzzle aspect may be. We've seen Stephen can make up a buttload of time on a puzzle. Not sure if I am getting what you mean. From what we've seen, the players will crawl (fall) down netted tubes, get bags (presumably with puzzle pieces), climb back up the tube, run across the stretched net in the middle, deposit their puzzle pieces and then do it all over again going down a different "leg", and after they have gathered all their bags, presumably put the puzzle together. I'm not getting how "small" legs would help them when it seems that endurance would be more important. We've seen similar challenges where players have to run, crawl acorss netting and it seems pretty rigerous. And yes, Stephen can make up time on a puzzle but I wonder if he can keep JT in his sights. As I recall, JT was moving pretty well on the last puzzle and probably would have placed 2nd. If I am missing something. please enlighten me... I want to consider all the angles. ;)
cindidindi76		#97	[-]
Posts: 17924 (05/14/09 03:16 PM) Registered User More Recent Posts	Ads no more Remove this ad Lol, sorry for the confusion, I just meant if the tubes are narrow, the smaller people would possibly have an easier time getting through them. But I have no idea what size the tubes are relative to the size of the people. It is possible that JT could win the last four immunity challenges.... not saying he does but he definitely could. It could make Stephen's desire to take out JT a moot point if JT is immune to the end. It's not possible at all, actually. There's only three IC's left. : b I do agree though that it may end up not being up to Stephen who he sits next to at the end.

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S18 - Episode 12 - Story Arcs