5/13/09 S5 Finale "The Incident" in Lost Forum

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5/13/09 S5 Finale "The Incident"

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Manila ESQ		#481	[-]
Posts: 219 (05/14/09 12:31 PM) Osten Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Wonderful World Remove this ad WallJ wrote: If Anti-Jacob = Smokey, then why was "Anti-Jacob Locke" so surprised at Ben's revelation that "Smokey Alex" told him to listen to everything Locke tells him? And, something in the opening scene struck me as it happened, but haven't re-watched it yet. Jacob and anti-Jacob were talking about changing things, and Jacob said something about being able to change the future? Does anybody remember exactly what they said? NAMELESS: You're trying to prove me wrong. JACOB: You are wrong. NAMELESS: They come, they fight, they destroy, they corrupt. It always ends the same. JACOB: It can only end once. Everything before that is progress. NAMELESS: 'Do you have any idea how much I want to kill you? JACOB: Yes.
Manila ESQ		#482	[-]
Posts: 220 (05/14/09 12:33 PM) Osten Reply Quote More Recent Posts	benjamin linus wrote: Found this gem on an otherwise mish-mash of the idiots on the abc board: SUMMARY: In short, the bomb goes off in 1977, the Swan hatch is never completed. However, Flight 815 does not go to LA, but instead lands on the island as it was always intended to do. The theme for Season 6 will be why the O6 were brought to the island, and the coming war. DETAILS: So we know the island has a way of course correcting itself. We also saw in season one a strong hint that major characters were PLACED on the plane (e.g., Claire and Sawyer each given tickets, Kate placed on the plane against her will, Jack absolutely must take this exact flight back as it is the last one that will get his dad's body back to LA in time for the funeral). We also heard the comment in Season two that Jack was not on Jacobs list (in the context of he was not on the list of people intended to be on flight 815). In season 4 Lapidus tells us he was supposed to be flying flight 815. In season 5, we are shown flight 316 make a landing on a landing strip that was built on or before 2004/2005 (with Kate, Sawyer, and 4 Others chopping rocks to either finish the new runway, or simply maintain the existing runway, which would be necessary given that is made only of rocks and gravel, not concrete). Since season 2, I have advocated that Flight 815 was coming in for a landing to the island, but Desmond screwed things up by failing to enter the numbers, thereby causing the low-flying plane to break apart and crash (much longer tangent post made in season 2 and 3 why the plane was landing). Now to season 5 ending....Season 5 does in fact end with the bomb going off, leaving us thinking (as was planted in our heads in Episode 515 "Follow the Leader") that flight 815 will continue on to LA and land. HOWEVER, this assumes the pilot of 815 was planning to fly to LA. However, if the pilot was intending to land the plane on the island, then after the hydogen bomb explodes in 1977, Desmond will in fact never fail to turn the key because the Swan Station was never finished/built, and Flight 815 will (course corrected) fly into the island for a landing as was planned all along. And finally, Season Six begins with a plane coming in for a seamless landing (possily flown by Lapidus, since I believe he has flown this route to the island many times*), and as the opening scene pans back from the inside of the plane where Jack and Kate and Sawyer, et al are riding, we see an island with a rough runway and Others (perhaps even Jacob) outside waiting to greet those selected to come to the island. Side note: Some have said there is not enough time in one season to cover what seems to amount to a reset of the entire show. HOWEVER, in season 5 when Desmond goes looking for Faraday, the janitor protector at Oxford mentions that Faraday's experiment involved sending rats memories into the future through the radiation. If a hydrogen bomb goes off, this is exactly how this will be solved for the show continuity - It will not involve a reset, but the O6 will carry their memories with them as Faraday's mice experiments proved could happen. We have already seen an example of how a historical change in time suddenly appears in the future of those impacted as sudden memories - When Faraday bangs on the Swan Station door and Desmond comes out, as the sky flashes, Desmond sees it too and not just Faraday (as was always the case that only the time travelers noticed the sky flash). Suddenly the next scene Desmond awakes in 2007 suddenly with a NEW memory - Not a dream but a memory. Thus the events in 1977 will suddenly be in the heads of the O6 as memories. Thoughts? http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index?pn=mb&cat=33026&tid=640377&tsn=1 Thought his theory was pretty interesting and a great direction for the show to head for the final season. It also goes with the tease "Destiny Found". In the same way that the Black Rock did not shipwreck into the island, it is indeed probable that Oceanic 815 was supposed to land in the island without "incident".
WiscBadger95		#483	[-]
Posts: 14125 (05/14/09 12:35 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	PoChop wrote: So there are these "rules" between Widmore and Ben that keep them from killing each other. And some analog that seems to apply to Jacob and anti-Jacob. Does this have something to do with leadership positions where the members of the leader club (past and present) aren't allowed to off each other lest they try to regain power via assasination? I think they're more universal than just being between Widmore and Ben, or Jacob and Anti-Jacob It's like Candle/Chang said at the beginning of the season, you can't go back in time and kill Hitler.
rvni3		#484	[-]
Posts: 1 (05/14/09 12:43 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Did anyone notice in the last scene where they show Juliette and her face is bloodied.. Then next shot of her face, she has no blood, then next shot she has blood again! I don't see how they could have let that slip by..
WiscBadger95		#485	[-]
Posts: 14128 (05/14/09 12:48 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	rvni3 wrote: Did anyone notice in the last scene where they show Juliette and her face is bloodied.. Then next shot of her face, she has no blood, then next shot she has blood again! I don't see how they could have let that slip by.. They do that from time to time. It seems they've been getting sloppier about it this season. Last week, when Widmore was kicking the shit out of Jack, at one point Jack rolls over and it's plain that the guy is a stunt double.
BlueJammies		#486	[-]
Posts: 826 (05/14/09 12:49 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I think the talk Jacob and anti-jacob had in the beginning of the show was important. anti-jacob (AJ) came down to the beach and saw the ship coming and basically says to Jacob(J), you are bringing them here aren't you, you are still trying to prove me wrong and J says yes. Then AJ says something like, they come they fight, they kill, they destruct it ends the same many times. Then J says, there is only one ending everything before that is progress. So I take it to mean AJ is a believer of human sin, that no matter how many times you replay the scenario, people are always going to have the same pattern fight, kill, destroy..that it is their destiny no matter how much you try to change people, thoughts, circumstances, the end result is the same humans destroying each other. Jacob on the other hand, is a believer of human redemption and that over the course of the repeating pattern, people will eventually learn a greater meaning and will, by free will, choose a different path that leads to peace rather than destruction and that if you keep replaying the pattern the enough times people, thoughts and circumstances will evolve and the ending will be different. But clearly by saying, there is only one ending, everything before that is progress, Jacob believes that in every 'loop' of the scenario, one person will eventually choose by free will to change something for the better, thus negating 'destiny'. The only time you will create or find your destiny is by choosing free will. Your free will, will determine your destiny..(destiny found). I believe the loop, starting with the black rock ship and ending with the losties on the island has been playing for a very long time and what we are going to see next season is the final loop in which human redemption wins over human sin. Therefore, in this show, destiny is actually the 'evil' side and free will is the 'good' side. But they have been making us think that John Locke aka 'destiny' is the spiritual one (good) and Jack aka 'no destiny' is the non-spiritual one (bad). But we will now see that Jack was right, there is no destiny because destiny only leads to detruction because people will not have free will to do as they choose and therefore, free will is actually the spiritual side of people because it allows them to make their own choices and to either learn from their mistake and choose a different path the next time or not learn from their mistakes and choose the same path. Their choices will ultimately write their destiny. AJ does not want there to be free will because his destiny will change once he is proven wrong and he wants to kill J because if there is no J there is no chance for him to try to 'touch' people at critical junctures in their lives and encourage them to change. If there is no change, there is no free will and if there is no free will then there is absolute power and AJ wants that power because he hates Jacob and everything he stands for and he wants to see the islanders Jacob helps and loves so dearly suffer because he is jealous over the love the islanders have for Jacob and the love Jacob has for them. Cain and Able, Jacob and Esau, God and the devil, purgatory, reincarnation, video games, books, movies, it's all in there mixed together, the lesson being, there are many pathways that lead to love, faith and destiny! btw, huge forshadowing with Rose and Bernard...she says why are ya'll so intent on shooting each other? and Bernard says death doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is making the choice to be with the people you love. Something they have yet to learn obviously. ps, i am sick in bed today which is why i had the time to post this very long scenario :)
Riliss		#487	[-]
Posts: 5009 (05/14/09 12:50 PM) Ugly on the inside Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I'm fortunate enough to be watching lost on a television so shitty that I don't notice those things. Qualityfail.
chidelta		#488	[-]
Posts: 1231 (05/14/09 12:51 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	NAMELESS: You're trying to prove me wrong. JACOB: You are wrong. NAMELESS: They come, they fight, they destroy, they corrupt. It always ends the same. JACOB: It can only end once. Everything before that is progress. NAMELESS: 'Do you have any idea how much I want to kill you? JACOB: Yes. Glad someone transcribed this scene. This exchange proves it . . . the island is purgatory.
lizzo1		#489	[-]
Posts: 1095 (05/14/09 12:53 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Re: the Juliette bloody or not bloody? thing: Yeah, there's been a lot of that lately...Charlotte's birthday crap, that stupid picture frame changing in the house where Miles did his ghost-busting, the whole ComicCon video thing...I'm sure there's more. I know they like to lie a lot, but these things are stupid.
rvni3		#490	[-]
Posts: 2 (05/14/09 01:02 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Wonderful World Remove this ad WiscBadger95 wrote: rvni3 wrote: Did anyone notice in the last scene where they show Juliette and her face is bloodied.. Then next shot of her face, she has no blood, then next shot she has blood again! I don't see how they could have let that slip by.. They do that from time to time. It seems they've been getting sloppier about it this season. Last week, when Widmore was kicking the shit out of Jack, at one point Jack rolls over and it's plain that the guy is a stunt double. I didn't notice that one ! I will have to go back and watch that part.
pushingjate		#491	[-]
Posts: 2940 (05/14/09 01:04 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Manila ESQ wrote: NAMELESS: You're trying to prove me wrong. JACOB: You are wrong. NAMELESS: They come, they fight, they destroy, they corrupt. It always ends the same. JACOB: It can only end once. Everything before that is progress. NAMELESS: 'Do you have any idea how much I want to kill you? JACOB: Yes. Black Rock? Fail. Dharma? Fail. Hostiles? Fail. The Oceanics are the "end." That's how the writers will keep S1/S2/S3 relevant.
rvni3		#492	[-]
Posts: 3 (05/14/09 01:07 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	lizzo1 wrote: Re: the Juliette bloody or not bloody? thing: Yeah, there's been a lot of that lately...Charlotte's birthday crap, that stupid picture frame changing in the house where Miles did his ghost-busting, the whole ComicCon video thing...I'm sure there's more. I know they like to lie a lot, but these things are stupid. I hadn't noticed those either. I will go back to see those too. They are getting sloppy!
pussycow		#493	[-]
Posts: 5387 (05/14/09 01:08 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I like Flocke PoChop wrote: So there are these "rules" between Widmore and Ben that keep them from killing each other. And some analog that seems to apply to Jacob and anti-Jacob. Does this have something to do with leadership positions where the members of the leader club (past and present) aren't allowed to off each other lest they try to regain power via assasination? The first rule of leader club....don't talk about leader club
cindidindi76		#494	[-]
Posts: 17905 (05/14/09 01:08 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	PoChop wrote: I wonder if the key that Desmond turned in the crawlspace of the hatch also blew up a small nuke. This explosion might cause something similar to happen with everyone showing up naked in the jungle next season, everyone except for Phil and Juliette. I had that same thought. Juliet doing that stops the sucking in of all things metal, and possibly sends the time travelers back to present time (kind of like how Des started getting flashes), Chang (after losing his arm due to that crush injury we saw him suffer) decides they need to have a failsafe that will do just that in case a button pusher slacks off. Not sure how they get a button assembled in 108 minutes, though.
pussycow		#495	[-]
Posts: 5389 (05/14/09 01:11 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts
QualityBobby		#496	[-]
Posts: 6383 (05/14/09 01:14 PM) O.o Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Dammit, I was going to post that!
cindidindi76		#497	[-]
Posts: 17906 (05/14/09 01:17 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	GeckoIsGod wrote: When we saw Jacob weaving the threads tonight, did anyone else think of the Fates from Greek mythology weaving the threads of fate? In particular (for the video game nerds) I really thought of God of War II when the final sister of the three Fates is weaving all of the threads of destiny on her loom... Yes! And then later on towards the end, he said something about it taking so long to make a thread and blahblahblah. Jacob's a powerful "man". I still don't understand why Richard was willing to let Jack/Sayid get their hands on the bomb. Because 1977 was not Richard's future - it was his then-and-now. And after the bomb goes off he dies. Like, forever. Personally, I don't think Richard really has to worry about things like that. i love this show omg. f*ck kristen from e! for making it seem as if someone clearly died when we have no friggin clue! If only there were someone here to tell everyone that Kristin is a dumb bitch... I'm not sure why people are convinced that the bomb changed anything? Of course it's possible, but it's entirely possible that Miles (and a number of posters here) was correct and that is what happened all along. Last Edited By: cindidindi76 05/14/09 01:32 PM. Edited 1 times.
FeliciaM7		#498	[-]
Posts: 7781 (05/14/09 01:38 PM) Once you go Jack... Reply Quote More Recent Posts	BlueJammies - Sorry you're sick but damn good post. They do that from time to time. It seems they've been getting sloppier about it this season. Last week, when Widmore was kicking the shit out of Jack, at one point Jack rolls over and it's plain that the guy is a stunt double. Oh I wanna see that again. Matthew Fox said on one of the 100 talk shows last week that he does his own stunts. He mentioned swimming through the tunnel as one that was very uncomfortable for him because he couldn't exactly surface if he needed to breathe. Why swim through a tunnel but have someone else roll around and get fake punched? I'd prefer the second myself. Maybe he said he does most of his stunts. Beats me. Brrrring in the double!!
CoconutPhone		#499	[-]
Posts: 16573 (05/14/09 01:51 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Thanks for the transcript of the intro convo. at the poster who says that must mean the island is purgatory How? They've gone back and forth to the outside world, had kids, killed people, got shot, and went down to the Snappy Snack Shack and feasted on a TurboDog.
twonyx		#500	[-]
Posts: 259 (05/14/09 01:53 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Wonderful World Remove this ad WiscBadger95 wrote: twonyx wrote: So, then I thought about the bomb. The bomb blows up and Oceanic doesn't crash. The losties never go back in time. No one sets off the bomb. The plane still crashes. It would have had to be someone like Richard to set off the bomb, for the bomb to not be affected by the plane crashing or not crashing. But, why would someone like Richard do that without one of the losties time traveling and telling him to do that. And then back to the loop. Richard does it, the plane never crashes, the losties never time travel, Richard never is told to set off bomb. Plane still crashes. Which is why it was Juliet who sets off the bomb. She was never on Oceanic 815. She was recruits by the Ben-led Others to come to the Island in 2001. O.K., but why would Juliet set off a bomb if she never met Sawyer? Let's play this out... Juliet comes to the island to help Ben and the others with child birth...The plane NEVER crashes. Juliet never meets the losties. In fact, Locke NEVER turns the donkey wheel. So, if Ben turned the wheel for some reason, it may have never stopped skipping and Juliet would have NO reason to detonate a bomb... So, now no bomb, the swan gets built. Desmond doesn't push the button. The plane crashes. The losties go back in time and detonate a bomb, the swan is never built, the plane never crashes (lands in L.A. on schedule), so no one goes back in time and the bomb is never set off and the Swan gets built. And the plane crashes.

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5/13/09 S5 Finale "The Incident"