S-19 Edgic (editing and logic) in Survivor Speculation Forum

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S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)

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McPhever224		#181	[-]
Posts: 313 (09/18/09 02:57 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Cheese� milk's leap toward immortality. Remove this ad Does Betsy remind anyone else of Leslie or Tracy? An older lady who you wanna root for, seems edgically viable but ultimately won't make it to the merge.
Runiger		#182	[-]
Posts: 13 (09/18/09 03:13 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	McPhever224 wrote: Does Betsy remind anyone else of Leslie or Tracy? An older lady who you wanna root for, seems edgically viable but ultimately won't make it to the merge. She reminds me a bit of Teresa all the way back from Survivor Africa actually.
cindidindi76		#183	[-]
Posts: 19614 (09/18/09 03:23 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	TheWizard wrote: Incidentally, do you ever take into account the EW.com deleted scene in ratings, or is that considered a spoiler/ apocryphal? They are definitely not used for ratings, and some people get all angry if they're even mentioned here, but I find that they can sometimes help eliminate people, kind of like "Well, if he's our winner, that would definitely have been in the episode". I know edgic is supposed to be all about the edited show, but I think some things that are left out can sometimes be equally important. Obviously, this isn't the case for all the Insider stuff, but my edgic-lite self finds them useful from time to time.
cindidindi76		#184	[-]
Posts: 19615 (09/18/09 03:35 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Kitty Pryde1 wrote: Hell, he even said he wanted to weed out the weak early. He didn't make them miserable just for fun. He was testing them. Except we saw that he was more concerned with booting someone that was on to him than someone who was actually weak. So his "testing" (and who the hell made that his job anyways?) was a bunch of bs. ETA: Sorry for being a dirty double poster! Last Edited By: cindidindi76 09/18/09 03:49 PM. Edited 1 times.
astroline		#185	[-]
Posts: 2587 (09/18/09 03:56 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Initial ratings... usually use Safari but have to do this in Firefox because for whatever reason the colors/sizes/fonts/images toolbar doesn't show up at all in Safari. Oh well. I've already changed some ratings multiple times and probably will do so again. Lots of possibilities for this. FOA FOA Ashley -- MORN4 This girl claims to be a fan and has seen every season, yet from this episode, we're shown that she is very easily suckered into Russell's antics and believes him and also allies with him strongly; some blah confessionals about generic decoy boot shit; and some even more blah TC answers to questions she should have been able to articulate much better. The audience was supposed to want to see her go home more than Marisa, and even though it's a weak N, it's still there. Ben -- OTTN3 Whatever good he did at the beginning with him being a "country boy" (yeah right) and even with the early confessional, he was undeveloped after that and we only saw him as Douche #2 as opposed to Russell's Douche #1. He attacked Marisa at TC for no reason and was shown in conflict with Marisa at camp. If he was a girl with the same attitude, he'd be gone. Hopefully he is soon. Betsy -- MORP3 She wasn't as visible as I remember her being, but I guess that's a good thing. She was shown at exactly the right times... #1 the first set of confessionals, she defined herself as a person and how she would play the game (but not necessarily as just straight up strategy, which IMO is even better)... #2 the middle of the early strategizing and alliance forming at camp, being shown with the star of the episode and how she related to him. Unlike Ashley, Marisa & Natalie, she was the only one to recieve a confessional about her new alliance with Russell and why she was apprehensive. And #3 right before TC, showing doubt about Russell. Just the right amount of airtime at exactly the most key moments, while defining herself as a person, player and a positive character all at once. She's looking really good at this point, if she can survive the next TC with Russell then I think she wins. Jaison -- MORP2 Nice guy, good swimmer. I think that covers it? Liz -- UTR2 I like her, but I think she's setting herself up for her own demise. She commented about racial stereotypes in both a positive and negative way, so I don't think any tone is really neccessary for her. At TC, she accepted the loss and wanted to move on from it. I don't think she's around for that long though. If you're a woman with an opinion, good luck. Marisa -- CPP4 She might be the first castaway ever with no intro shot. We should start forgetting about her now to make the process easier. I was honestly shocked when she was targetted, as she had a good edit up to that point, but now we know why. Russell's first victim had to be someone we liked, otherwise what's the big deal about him being a big bad villain if he takes out someone that's N or MOR? It wouldn't have the same impact. Good edit though for a first boot. Mick -- MOR3 I could have predicted this rating for him 3 weeks ago. Whoever earlier said that he's just another Marcus/Brendan/Aaron type is completely right. He'll be on the Contenders list anyway, but I think it's a waste of time. He honestly didn't do that much and most of his screentime about being a leader was really generic. We know he's a doctor, but that's it. Everything else is fodder and very narrative. Mike -- MORN3 This guy has an awful lot of opinions for the most out of shape AND oldest person in his tribe and the game in general. He's lucky he didn't go home. His comments about Jaison swimming and Ashley being the weakest, along with Galu winning just out of "luck", seem to be putting down others just so he can feel better and less guilty about himself. I don't sense him being around much longer, even with Russell keeping him around. He's just useless. Natalie -- UTR1 I originally had her as INV, but with all the close-up face shots she got during the intro and challenges, plus the brief scene starring as the "even dumber long haired blonde" with Russell, and then the brief scene with just her & Betsy on the beach, it's enough to at least give her an UTR1. She's just a follower though. Russell H. -- OTTNN5 You guys might remember him, he only took up the total airtime of about half the fucking episode. I don't have much to say that hasn't already been said, but I don't think he was CP, at all. Yeah, his actions and thoughts were complex and done from a game perspective, but they were all presented in a very OTT manner. The thoughts behind the actions were CP, but the presentation was OTT. And I really don't think a very obvious NN rating could ever be CP. If a rating is NN or PP, that's very one-dimensional and hence OTT. That's just my opinion though. I'm sure we can discuss this further in the next 13 episodes when he gets the same exact rating every time. GALU Brett -- INV1 First confessional of the season, but it wasn't subtitled so the viewers have no idea who he is. Great editing. Dave -- UTR1 Short confessional that I didn't even remember until Warrior corrected me, and some hanging around John during camp scenes, maybe close to an UTR2 but it doesn't matter anyway because he barely left any impression at all. Erik -- UTR2 Another short confessional and that's about it. Some people might think he's P or N, or even M, but I didn't sense any tone at all. His confessional was only to make John look more N, it meant nothing for Erik himself. Good performance at the challenge though makes him skew P but I'm not sure. John -- UTRN2 This was like the definition of UTRN right here. Bad challenge performance and some time talking at camp with one annoying confessional and some negative SPV from Erik, Dave and Shambo. That's a lot. I personally don't mind him, but we know his tribe does and we know it's for multiple reasons. I say UTRN because even though he was actually shown on camera talking a lot, most of what we remember is what the others said about him instead. Kelly -- INV1 I don't like her anyway, so who cares. I knew she'd be boring. Laura -- INV1 Who? Kidding, she's my pre-show favorite and still my favorite. The most invisible person by a large margin. Monica -- UTR1 I'm actually shocked that her visibility is this high. I was very convinced that she would be INV1 in the first episode, so when she got the 6th confessional of the season, I was totally surprised. Good for her though, I'm sure there won't be many more of these great UTR1 ratings for her -- INV1's here we come until your early boot. Russell S. -- CP3 I like him, but I don't see the P yet. Most of it was narration without any real directed tone towards it. He's a positive, fun guy by nature but there was nothing edited to make us actually like him. That just comes naturally. Still a good edit though for sure, although most of it was necessary. Shambo -- OTTP4 This was the hardest rating for me. At first I had her at just OTT4, then I changed it to OTTP4, then to CPP4, and now back to OTTP4. Just like Russell H., the thoughts behind the actions were complex, but the actual presentation was OTT. It was almost like the editors were saying, "Here's a female Rupert! Like her! NOW!" and a lot of her confessionals were narrative about what was going on at camp, so even though she had some complex moments, can you really give someone a CP for explaining a nickname? The scene of her alone on the beach seemed very Rupert-esque to me, so that's why the OTTP seems easy to give. I could change this again though. Yasmin -- INV1 Good job at the challenge. That's all I got. The most likely candidate for the INV1 first episode, 2nd episode boot. Winners list... None yet. I don't get winner vibes from anyone, so I'll try not to make judgments too soon. Ashley, Betsy, Jaison, both Russells, Shambo probably have the best chance though. That's pretty much it at this point so I won't narrow it down.
Jedijake		#186	[-]
Posts: 5757 (09/18/09 04:46 PM) MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I guess the last 2 seasons taught us a lesson. It's nice to see people proceed with caution in predicting possible winners.
RobVanStratus		#187	[-]
Posts: 9209 (09/18/09 04:52 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Stephen still got closer than Erinn did OO. And had the jury not wanted to all bend over and take it right in the ass from JT, they'd have realized Stephen deserved to win. Honestly, it's a wonder you haven't driven Stephen away with your ridiculous rants on how Erinn would have squashed him in the final vote or how he didn't deserve to make it so far.
OnlyTheHunter		#188	[-]
Posts: 2002 (09/18/09 04:56 PM) Edgician Reply Quote More Recent Posts	The guy I still thought would win last season when watching the finale again said: Incidentally, do you ever take into account the EW.com deleted scene in ratings, or is that considered a spoiler/ apocryphal? Do not use it in ratings, Stephen, as the scene wasn't in the show. It is, for me, fine to watch, because it may help me see where the manipulation was used in the show itself. I, when I have time, like watching the full voting confessionals, and when I can tell that a statement points to something that contradicts the shown story or mentions something that never arose or implicits relationships not shown, I use it to ask myself what was so important about what was used that it forced said deleted scene to the sideline. Does that make any sense? Michael
TheWizard		#189	[-]
Posts: 65 (09/18/09 05:12 PM) Avocado Assassin Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Oowatanite wrote: TheWizard wrote: I was chuckling the entire time at OO's insistence that Erinn would win. Were you also chuckling the entire time at the majority of Edgic's insistence that YOU would win ? Haha - I actually felt bad! That I was letting Edgic down. That I had caused the system to fail.
BlakeB717		#190	[-]
Posts: 1717 (09/18/09 05:12 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Cheese� milk's leap toward immortality. Remove this ad Mick -- MOR3 I could have predicted this rating for him 3 weeks ago. Whoever earlier said that he's just another Marcus/Brendan/Aaron type is completely right. He'll be on the Contenders list anyway, but I think it's a waste of time. He honestly didn't do that much and most of his screentime about being a leader was really generic. We know he's a doctor, but that's it. Everything else is fodder and very narrative. Just in case you forgot, Mick had 2 confessionals: one about being a doctor, like you said, and how it correlates to being a leader, and the other wasn't narrative/fodder: he said he was uneasy about being a leader and since Ben seemed to step into the position, he'd relenquish his power and let Ben paint his own target. I do agree with Marcus vibes, but then again, it's a 20-person season and usually those types win if they're male in big seasons.
OnlyTheHunter		#191	[-]
Posts: 2003 (09/18/09 05:24 PM) Edgician Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I wanted to add some more random thoughts, will do ratings soon. One - in watching the show, I have to be honest, I saw Betsy as the clear, far out winner favorite so far ahead of anyone else, and that's the strongest reaction I've had since Todd, who I pegged from day one and never let go of. The placement of the opening confessional really got to me, as no one introduced her, but she was placed there with purpose. And I don't believe in the "themes" theory as part of Edgic, but in this episode, man, one main theme hit me over the head. And one person stood out from it in a very interesting way. The theme - overcoming stereotypes. Jaison is a black man, but man can he swim. Russell H is the villain, who will control everyone and they won't know it. One who figured it out, Marisa, is the immediate victim. He went the wrong way, overcoming the trusted ally and becoming the slimy one. The two dumb blondes followed him, and that's dumb. But Ashley, one of them, is considered weak, and gave a defense combating it. Mike Borassi is worried about being stereotyped weak, and wants it known he's strong, Liz appreciated and feared the Asian stereotype directly. Mick can make snap decisions, and the tribe knows he's good at it. But then he cedes leading at camp Ben knew he'd be overlooked as a leader, then at camp, Mick let him lead. John was labeled strong, then couldn't get off the sand (and dude, I can't swim, but you don't go in the water with denims and shoes). He overcame the stereotype in the worst way. Lennox Lewis Russell went from being a good leader to a bad one by Shambo in the span of 2 minutes. Bad for him, and for her edit too. And then there's Betsy. Russell thought she's the older player, and she's smarter. We know she's on to him. But she also is holding back about it. The only reason she gave out is "woman's intuition." She's the viewer's voice. And by not being outward, we don't know her real position in the tribe. We know she's smart. We know she can see through Russell. But while we have strong feelings, she's the only one whose stereotype (the untrusting one) isn't shown trhough other players. No one commented on her, sans Russell. She's forced on us. She's inserted. For a reason. I can be a doofus and watch her go home soon, but I don't think so. She's placed where she is because we had to meet her episode 1. Remember, episode two is for the false winner CP edits to emerge. Betsy got the proper starting point. We know her, we know her game, and we also know how it could bite her. All the while, most viewers immediately recall Russell, Marisa and random scenes. Hmmm. Michael PS Warrior/FLF, in her confessional about Russell in the opening scene, Marisa was a reverse shot, check her hair. PPS I see my "ability" to type with proper spelling and grammar is in midseason form - time to reread for another edit! Last Edited By: OnlyTheHunter 09/18/09 05:30 PM. Edited 5 times.
PlacePlume		#192	[-]
Posts: 2 (09/18/09 06:21 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Kitty Pryde1 wrote: Again, Russell was an OTT personality. I mean, he had to be. He burned socks, poured out the water, insulted people, and in the end, he was the cause of the first boot, by targetting the girl who HE didn't trust. All of these are events that happened and make for a great storyline. However, Russell always gave insight in his confessionals. It wasn't like they just showed him emptying canteens or burning socks without reason. He told us his entire plan. THAT is complex. Yes, this is what I was thinking myself. As you said in your previous post, he's an OTT character but he was given a CP edit. It would have been very easy to just show him acting like a douche for the hell of it. But the editing made a clear effort to try and show his motivations behind his actions. I feel like Russell's default character is OTTNN. Like we should just rename him that, and then every episode see what type of edit he gets on top of that, and base his ratings off of that.
fat little fingers		#193	[-]
Posts: 6233 (09/18/09 06:42 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Haha - I actually felt bad! That I was letting Edgic down. That I had caused the system to fail. Edgic never fails, Wiz. Following boot spoilers, now that's failure. How boring. Go Ozzy! Oops...Go Stephen! No,wait...Go Scout!
Jedijake		#194	[-]
Posts: 5759 (09/18/09 06:44 PM) MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Don't forget Cirie. She won, didn't she?
BlakeB717		#195	[-]
Posts: 1719 (09/18/09 06:51 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Nothing haunts me more than the Bob win.
SwineForkbeard		#196	[-]
Posts: 2451 (09/18/09 07:52 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	fat little fingers wrote: Edgic never fails, Wiz. Does that stop you from circle jerking when you guess correctly? You can't have it both ways. There can be no success without the risk of failure.
NickF227		#197	[-]
Posts: 11999 (09/18/09 07:53 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	BlakeB717 wrote: Nothing haunts me more than the Bob win. What are you talking about? On the way to the voting urn, Marcus and Corrine tumbled onto the pyre and died deserving deaths, causing Susie to win 3-2. (And Marcus would've been eliminated earlier if the leaders of this thread allowed themselves to see the difference between a winning edit and a 'im a pompous jerk off who is gonna get owned soon' edit.)
BlakeB717		#198	[-]
Posts: 1720 (09/18/09 07:56 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Except when you post, Swine, it is always failure and no success.
chaperone		#199	[-]
Posts: 2729 (09/18/09 08:11 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I depart from edgic philosophy rarely, but in at least one scenario I do. It's the case of a guy like Bad Russell or hero Rupert. I know many disagree, but see, I think CBS and SEG would benefit from the boon of a guy like him winning it all that if in Samoa back in June and July this guy did all the stuff he did AND managed to win - CBS would make no effort to "tone him down" or anything. They might try to bring others up to add to the fray - but I think they'll take every single ill-gotten behavior and mix it in with the path to the end game so as to properly tell the story - and showcase it. Why not? It's controversial - and TV networks love that sort of morbidity. People would talk so much about him around the water cooler - cheer against him (and a few for him) that it would morbidly draw in extra viewers just from the word of mouth. Their business is more about ratings than it is about "telling a story" (which is the principle I most follow in edgic ideology and stand by still - with noted exception). The story has to be told, and make sense, but putting him out there as contemptible as possible would be gloriously profitable for all parties. However, since this is edgic, there's no way to evaluate this exception within our system, so I'm going to stop here and simply suggest that there are situations where edgic theory simply may not apply. I will have no more "maybe Russell wins" posts other than simply this suggestion. I will suggest though, that I can't imagine his strategy will actually work. But if it did - I'd be riveted (and angry). Do I think Russell wins? No. Do I think that if Russell managed to pull off a win back in June/July in Samoa would they "hide" him per edgic theory? No way...he's worth his weight in gold, and he's a pudgy little dude.
SurvivorGuy24		#200	[-]
Posts: 414 (09/18/09 08:55 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Cheese� milk's leap toward immortality. Remove this ad The only misgiving I have about Betsy's first episode edit is that it's almost TOO good, especially for a female winner. Almost Marcus-like. Give it another couple of episodes to see if Betsy is the real deal, or the next Margaret Bobonich.

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S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)