S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)

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GoHomeAndEatYoRice		#301	[-]
Posts: 1612 (09/20/09 8:37 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	guatemala fanfic wrote: Second Best Monica - I know I'm probably the only person to say this, but I really think she's one of the strongest choices. Galu was so ignored due to everything revolving around Russell that the fact that she was given the 6^th confessional and commented on the leadership theme seems really significant. There was seemingly no need to put her in there, yet she was. Consider that someone like Monica won. She played no part in the main story of what was going on, she's not the chief like Russell S., and she's not the star like Shannon, so what would the editors do with her? I would say they'd give her a confessional like this. It's only been one episode so I can't build a strong case and I don't want her to be the next Amanda/Alexis/Erinn, but I'll be watching her very closely. Now watch her be INV1 next week I can say, I agree with this very hard. I think Monica has one of the better chances of winning.
astroline		#302	[-]
Posts: 2600 (09/20/09 8:38 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	BlakeB717 wrote: astroline wrote: BlakeB717 wrote: OK half of those screen captures are wayyy over doing it. Walking out of TC first? Come on, that's not editting--that is reality--which isn't edgic. SCREENSHOTS!#&^$% ... is dangerous. AVOID. Don't tell me what to do. I knew you'd criticize that post. I'm only making a case for a possible other option that we don't automatically rule out. The basic jist is that she was featured in all the key moments, even though she was UTR. Do you want another Bob or JT situation? It was constructive criticism (and I believe "avoid" is very different than telling one what to do, which I never did): edgic is not really about screenshots. I did have JT as my winner pick for half the season, so I'm not too worried about that ;) Are you serious? You said "AVOID." "Wayyy over doing it." Stop thinking you're better than me, you're not. I was using those screenshots to illustrate the points I wanted to make that Liz was involved in all key moments, and also that she did get a lot of face time at times when other contenders didn't. I think most people will understand that. And if JT was really your #1 pick for half the season, great job convincing the rest of us huh? Oh wait...
9RedWing19		#303	[-]
Posts: 2625 (09/20/09 9:10 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Hmmm - a couple of our regulars could be heading for another timeout. flf ?? flf ???
Katy Carney		#304	[-]
Posts: 8437 (09/20/09 9:16 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Warrior wrote: Sentences: 77 1 1 2 1 1 4 3 1 1 1
OnlyTheHunter		#305	[-]
Posts: 2007 (09/20/09 9:19 PM) Edgician Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Yep, KC, and I thought Steph in Guat had high Visibility. Michael
BlakeB717		#306	[-]
Posts: 1741 (09/20/09 9:20 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	9RedWing19 wrote: Hmmm - a couple of our regulars could be heading for another timeout. flf ?? flf ??? Hey, I stopped replying once I explained myself the first time.
astroline		#307	[-]
Posts: 2601 (09/20/09 9:38 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	BlakeB717 wrote: 9RedWing19 wrote: Hmmm - a couple of our regulars could be heading for another timeout. flf ?? flf ??? Hey, I stopped replying once I explained myself the first time. Or you could have just been less condescending in your first reply about my post. I'm just defending my ideas. You came at me first.
BlakeB717		#308	[-]
Posts: 1742 (09/20/09 10:11 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	astroline wrote: BlakeB717 wrote: 9RedWing19 wrote: Hmmm - a couple of our regulars could be heading for another timeout. flf ?? flf ??? Hey, I stopped replying once I explained myself the first time. Or you could have just been less condescending in your first reply about my post. I'm just defending my ideas. You came at me first. astro, you aren't going to let it go so let me explain this to you so you can stop clawing like a cat at yarn (probably because you feel I was being offensive and personal) and I can maybe give my hair a break from all the hair-pulling (and probably many other posters getting annoyed). I did not "come at you"!! This makes me sound like a rabid pitbull. "Condescending" is something said with a superior tone. This is the internet; thus all comments are texts. One of the biggest flaws to the internet is that people cannot hear the tone of things being said; thus they assume a tone and once it is in their heads the words will never be heard differently in their head otherwise. There is no way to tell if I am being condescending unless I say so. I am telling you now that I was not acting superior: I said that I felt your post was over-analytical and should stay clear of using screencaps as reasonings because it's lead us down the wrong road before. If you want to keep Liz in our view, that is perfectly fine, I agree that she is not eliminated, but go about it a different way. I was offering a suggestion, I was not telling you exactly what to do--I told you what I think you should not do. I could have been outright nasty and said "LOL what a surprise, astro posting stupidly posting in support of a brunette female: grasping at straws are we?" (although I do not think offering support in Liz is stupid since she was one of the few people who got strategic insight, but I'm just saying that as an example). You (understandably) assume that any post in disagreement with yours is nasty because I have grown less tolerant of some of your posts in past seasons: this is, however, a new season and I have yet to become intolerant, OK? Also, in the future, it may be a bad idea to defend your ideas by making statements that are untrue, like "Well you sure didn't do a good job of convincing all of Edgic that JT was the winner" (which has zero relevance to any of your ideas), especially when you acknowledge that you didn't even know I had JT as a contender the entire 2nd half--so how would you know how much I tried to convince people? Many regulars here can attest to the fact that I gave my reasons for JT and against Stephen plenty, and some even used my pro-Stephen comments early in the season against me (in a clever mannor on their part, might I add) to counter-act my arguments; but I stuck with my choice. I'm not perfect, as I chose Peih-Gee, Marcus, and Ken as my winners (though no one can top flf's list of losing winner picks =P) I apologize, if that's what you seek, for my inability to force other people to think exactly as I do--I can try--but to no avail, to each their own. The best I can do is give opinions, since no one can force unless they are "God". I hope you can understand that not every post of mine aquires a malicious tone, and I hope you can forgive me for giving a tone that has upset you. If you have any further issues with my posts, please feel free to PM me and I will let you know if it was an attack on your skills or me letting you see why and how I disagree (almost always it will be the latter). I probably should have said this a long time ago, but now it's out there and we can continue on with edgic and not banter. I'm opinionated, not condescending. Last Edited By: BlakeB717 09/20/09 11:52 PM. Edited 3 times.
Warrior		#309	[-]
Posts: 2923 (09/21/09 7:05 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I think that Russell has broken the visibility record for having a visibility of more that 5 times the episode average in the first episode...I also think that we should keep a keen eye on the UTR2 players.
Lemun		#310	[-]
Posts: 413 (09/21/09 11:16 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	As someone who has been here since the beginning of Edgic, watching Astro and Blake bicker is like getting ready to view Warrior's first Vis chart of the season. It is part of Edgic every year and you just know you can depend on it to be there. I love you guys :) On another note, as someone who has considered Liz as CP2 for this episode, I thought that was an interesting read Astro. Even if a few of those screen caps are farfetched, which you acknowledged, you reported every instance of which Liz was a part of. I would rather there be more reports like this than the ongoing discussion of whether Russel was a monster or a mastermind. Either way, he isn't winning. We should really be looking at other contenders who got unique and interesting edits this episode like Liz, Mick, Jaison, and even Monica.
wallduck		#311	[-]
Posts: 549 (09/21/09 11:34 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Hmmm - a couple of our regulars could be heading for another timeout. I guess I haven't been paying attention, since I thought they were bff. But at least they're arguing about edgic, and making some points in the process. And aside from trolls, which don't count, things are way tame around here.
unduli clone		#312	[-]
Posts: 7450 (09/21/09 2:00 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Can someone please explain the Jaison support here? He practically disappears after his necessary presence in the RC, except for a tiny line about missing his socks - other than being seen in the frame, he's completely absent from all post-IC talk and from TC at all. In a premiere especially, I just don't see that type of edit for a winner. But what concerns me more is that Jaison was in the premiere only as part of another's edit. Yes, he was nearly voted tribal leader of Foa Foa, but that was all necessary footage. When Mick picked him, we did get his reaction to it (like we got Elizabeth's and Shambo's), but what was his reaction about? Mick's pick, and the tiny racial theme that Elizabeth also espoused. Then we got praise on his abilities, but again, it was about Mick (think of Marisa's comment), and as a contrast to John more than it was about Jaison, himself. The ten second sock scene hardly deserves any examination, but again it was a reaction to what Russell had done, and served as a springboard to Russell's story while having nothing to do with Jaison. It kind of reminds me of Stephen's first episode last season - while he did have meaningful presence, it was all about the others: both Sandy and JT, with little Stephen time. I originally had called it out and somewhat eliminated him based on it, but I fell for the trap later in the season. I think it's extremely important to pay attention to SPV and to the why behind a player is in the episode. Mick wasn't a star of the premiere, by any means, but he was there for his own presence (even Ben's scene contributed to Mick more than the opposite). Jaison was there only to support the others.
Katy Carney		#313	[-]
Posts: 8442 (09/21/09 2:57 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I thought it was interesting that both Jaison and Elizabeth's confessionals centered around racial stereotypes. I'm sure someone else has said that tho.
wallduck		#314	[-]
Posts: 550 (09/21/09 2:58 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Can someone please explain the Jaison support here? I think it's motivated in part as follows: When there are 20 characters, a large number are necessarily INV in episode 1. Others are OTT for the usual entertainment purposes. That leaves relatively few (3 or 4) contenders who closely match the guidelines. Nobody at this point wants to eliminate characters prematurely. In which case, it's natural to look for reasons why characters like Jaison, Monica, Liz, and Erik are possibilities.
craig		#315	[-]
Posts: 16153 (09/21/09 5:22 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Monica - INV - Confessional? So what. Ask anyone you know if they remember Monica. They won't Dave - UTR1 - I clearly recalled a guy cutting down John, and thought at the end his name was Dave. When I confirmed it, he avoids an INV. Nothing else to say about him Double standard much? By your Monica standard, we should have about 10 INV. No regular viewers will remember Dave either.
craig		#316	[-]
Posts: 16154 (09/21/09 5:42 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I wager that this ep,.1 will prove to be one of the edgically least helpful premiere episodes in recent memory. There is no leader\mastermind like Yul, Earl, or Parv preparing to spread their wings. There is no JT\Stephen or Romber pair being set up. Not even a likeable Bob doing his thing. Evil Russ and Shambo - OTT attention whores Mick and Good Russ - they gotta show them (like Sierra and Sandy), since they were chosen leader. Beyond that a couple minor negative guys (not winning), a bunch of INVs (not winning). Then another bunch who don't really stand out but you can't rule them out. Probably winner is among them. Reading bios preshow, Betsy and Monica (of all the females) had more of the "right stuff" to win. Betsy is set up as Russ's wily adversary, the only person who is onto him (aside from departed Marisa). Could she be Sandra to his JFP? Monica, despite being UTR1, is the 2nd most visible female on Purple, with an early confessional about leadership. She's also the person that takes custody of the immunity idol for her tribe. If a women on Yellow wins it's Betsy, and if a women on Purple wins it's Monica. I suspect this will be a bad season for leaders, so if a guy wins it won't be one of the stars of the premiere.
Oowatanite		#317	[-]
Posts: 8616 (09/21/09 5:45 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	craig wrote: Monica - INV - Confessional? So what. Ask anyone you know if they remember Monica. They won't Dave - UTR1 - I clearly recalled a guy cutting down John, and thought at the end his name was Dave. When I confirmed it, he avoids an INV. Nothing else to say about him Double standard much? By your Monica standard, we should have about 10 INV. No regular viewers will remember Dave either. Agreed. If we're gonna judge edgic ratings in ep1 by "does anybody remember xxxxx ?", then everyone gets an INV except EvilRussell, GoodRussell, Marisa, Betsy, Shambo. Mick, Ashley and John.
OnlyTheHunter		#318	[-]
Posts: 2008 (09/21/09 6:05 PM) Edgician Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I happened to remember Dave, that's all. I also gave out 6 INV because I felt they were warranted. No double standard. Ask Brett. But what odds would you lay that the winner is so hidden that no average viewer can recall him/her? I bet they recall Liz, for one. But not Natalie. Not Monica. They'll remembered Jaison, despite him disappering halfway through. But not Brett. Not Dave, perhaps. And why is that important? (Accepting the intentional "Tina" response) name one time the winner was nameless after episode one. Heck, Danni's confessional was a stand out. Winners, time and time again, are shown in episode one. Do you really think Monica counts? Guve her an UTR1. She's still eliminated. And should be. Michael
Jedijake		#319	[-]
Posts: 5785 (09/21/09 6:07 PM) MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Is there ANYTHING we can do this season to avoid endless discussions about people such as Monica et al???
grodney		#320	[-]
Posts: 790 (09/21/09 6:09 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Oowatanite wrote: If we're gonna judge edgic ratings in ep1 by "does anybody remember xxxxx ?", then everyone gets an INV except EvilRussell, GoodRussell, Marisa, Betsy, Shambo. Mick, Ashley and John. And the black guy that can swim.

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S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)