S-19 Edgic (editing and logic) in Survivor Speculation Forum

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S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)

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goohst		#721	[-]
Posts: 1101 (09/27/09 01:09 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Ads no mass Remove this ad Mypoody2 wrote: decrease in spoilers = decrease in edgic accuracy. coincidence? probably not. Well since this is true I'm calling Liz now >:O
Niczez.votefortheworst		#722	[-]
Posts: 10 (09/27/09 01:25 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Dropping in my final ratings, then I'm going to go back and read through everyone else's. FOA FOA Ashley - CP3 Didn't get much of a tone on her this time, but she certainly was showing doubt and explaining her thought process in determining how to vote. More complexity from her than from Liz, Jaison or Mick. I wasn't convinced of her winner's potential after the first episode, but this was a good episode for her. She's on the list. Ben - OTTN4 Negative SPVs, negative confessionals, negative TC answers. This one's a no brainer. It's only not a double N because I don't think he reached the "evilness" of Russell. Betsy - OTTP4 We were certainly supposed to rooting for her, and Marisa, and . . . who will be next? Jaison - MORP3 For all the scheming he seemed to be involved in, we didn't get much of his thought process. His SPV from Russell and his diplomatic TCQ answer skewed him positive for me. I'm still waiting for the confessional where he tells us what he really thinks of Evil Russell. Liz - CP3 She had a good episode as well. We got to hear a lot of her strategy and thinking. She's been proven right in most of her assessments of her fellow contestants so far. However, since most of her screentime was dedicated to strategy, I don't think we got enough about her personally to warrant a tone. Mick - CP3 Again, one of the most obviously manipulated edits for me. We get TWO reminders that he's a doctor during Mike's evacuation. He has the first shot of the episode, emerging from the water towards Betsy (really odd shot . . . what did that have to do with anything?). There's another weird "Mick watching shot" (obviously manipulated) when ER finds the HII. He had a confessional after Mike left that showed doubt about the future of the tribe. Mike - MORM3 No complexity from him and I think we were meant to feel some sympathy for him, but also some derision. His (clearly unfounded) boasting was just sad. Natalie - INV1 Poor girl. Russell H. - CPN5 I was on team CP last episode, and still think he got even more complex this time. Not sure what to make of the editing hi-jinx when he found the idol. I don't think it's a conspiracy or anything, but I'm not sure of what was trying to be accomplished there. Why not just show it found when he found it? GAL-WHO? Brett - INV1 Dave - UTR1 For his "you look funky" comment to Yasmin and prominence at the challenge. Erik - INV1 John - INV1 Kelly - INV1 Though she did have a close-up that immediately followed a shot of a hermit crab coming out of its shell. I'm always intrigued by the animal imagery even though it means nothing edgic wise. Laura - UTR1 Had snarky comment about fish in the ocean. Monica - UTR1 Strange reaction to Marisa being voted out. Narrated Shambo/fish sequence. Russell S. - UTR1 Visible at the challenge, more than most. Had to speak with sending Yasmin over to Foa Foa. Shannon - MORN3 Losing fishing equipment has to be negative Yasmin - OTTN4 I don't think you can get that many negative SPV's and be anything but. She is, by far, the worst mactor out there. My winner's list: Mick Liz Ashley Russell H. I really can't see a winner coming from Galu at this time. Even in Palau, where we eventually got major characters from the ignored tribe, the winner was still on the complex tribe. I'm getting that feeling here . . . either a force of good is about to break out on Foa Foa and that will be our winner, or Russell is getting the same edit as Tom, just in an evil form. Off to catch up on reading . . .
Oowatanite		#723	[-]
Posts: 8709 (09/27/09 01:26 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Die Apokalyptischen Reiter wrote: Oowatanite wrote: You know who else betrayed Coach and Taj ? JT. WRONG. JT voted Erinnnnnn when Coach was eliminated. And Taj would expect a vote from Erinnnnn and JT, but never from Stephen. Stephen betrayed his two most important allies after JT at F5. And then told Tyson he planned his elimination at F8. All his fault. (sigh) "JT voted Erinn when Coach was eliminated" JT knew Coach was being booted and just threw him a vote for jury purposes. "And Taj would expect a vote from Erinn and JT, but never from Stephen" If Taj would expect a vote from JT, why would she promise (in her exit confessional) to vote for Erinn to win if she reached the F2 ? Because she was betrayed by Stephen AND JT. *"Stephen betrayed his two most important allies after JT at F5"* JT betrayed his two most important allies after Stephen at F5.
BlakeB717		#724	[-]
Posts: 1781 (09/27/09 01:30 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Big error in ratings that a lot of people are making (regarding Liz's rating): Strategy does not equal CP. If the strategy related to Liz personally or development of her character, then give her a CP. Did you learn anything about Liz or did you just learn about the strategy going on in the tribe? If it's the latter, rate her MOR.
Oowatanite		#725	[-]
Posts: 8710 (09/27/09 01:36 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Ashley - MOR4 Ben - OTTNN5 Betsy - OTTP4 Elizabeth - MOR4 Jaison - CPP4 Mick - MOR4 Mike - OTT3 Natalie - INV Evil Russell - CPN5 Brett - INV Dave - INV Erik - INV John - INV Kelly - INV Laura - UTR1 Monica - UTR1 Good Russell - INV Shambo - MORN2 Yasmin - OTTN5
Jedijake		#726	[-]
Posts: 5832 (09/27/09 01:36 PM) MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Part of me wonders if we shouldn't compare Russell's targeting Ashley next to Fairplay's statement to the effect of: I have a million dollars saying she does NOT win., regarding Sandra. I'm torn between Liz and Ashley right now. Mick and Jaison are both contenders as well but Mick seems boring to me and Jaison almost seems TOO good right now, especially with the coming episode showcasing his coup, which is VERY early.
Niczez.votefortheworst		#727	[-]
Posts: 11 (09/27/09 02:04 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	BlakeB717 wrote: Big error in ratings that a lot of people are making (regarding Liz's rating): Strategy does not equal CP. If the strategy related to Liz personally or development of her character, then give her a CP. Did you learn anything about Liz or did you just learn about the strategy going on in the tribe? If it's the latter, rate her MOR. Okay, but I think you could argue that her strategy talking was personal. When she assess Betsy vs. Ben, she's very clear on her take and then we see her discussing it with Evil Russell. I read that as "here's what I'm going to do and why, and here I am doing it." I have her as CP and Jaison as MOR because of this . . . I feel like her actions were explained to us and his were not. It's also interesting that she was included in the discussion---why is her vote important to the tribe? I could see the argument that Mick's assessment was thrown in there because he is the leader and understandably speaks for the tribe, but what value did Liz's assessment add? I read it as a conscious attempt on the editors part to show us that she is thinking and "playing the game" and therefore complex. On a different note, I forget who mentioned this earlier, but I also caught the interesting reaction shots from Liz and Mick when Ben said his chances of winning a million were as good as anyone else's. I think this is foreshadowing Ben as the next boot and possibly the emergence of Liz and Mick as the controlling force on Foa Foa.
goohst		#728	[-]
Posts: 1113 (09/27/09 05:49 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Niczez wrote: BlakeB717 wrote: Big error in ratings that a lot of people are making (regarding Liz's rating): Strategy does not equal CP. If the strategy related to Liz personally or development of her character, then give her a CP. Did you learn anything about Liz or did you just learn about the strategy going on in the tribe? If it's the latter, rate her MOR. Okay, but I think you could argue that her strategy talking was personal. When she assess Betsy vs. Ben, she's very clear on her take and then we see her discussing it with Evil Russell. I read that as "here's what I'm going to do and why, and here I am doing it." I have her as CP and Jaison as MOR because of this . . . I feel like her actions were explained to us and his were not. It's also interesting that she was included in the discussion---why is her vote important to the tribe? I could see the argument that Mick's assessment was thrown in there because he is the leader and understandably speaks for the tribe, but what value did Liz's assessment add? I read it as a conscious attempt on the editors part to show us that she is thinking and "playing the game" and therefore complex. On a different note, I forget who mentioned this earlier, but I also caught the interesting reaction shots from Liz and Mick when Ben said his chances of winning a million were as good as anyone else's. I think this is foreshadowing Ben as the next boot and possibly the emergence of Liz and Mick as the controlling force on Foa Foa. Especially if you have Russell alienating Jaison and Ashley.
wallduck		#729	[-]
Posts: 552 (09/27/09 06:03 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Brett INV Dave UTR1 Erik INV John INV Kelly INV Laura UTR1 Monika UTR1: had some presence in both of first two episodes, which means a lot on this tribe goodRussell UTR1: good move sending Yasmin! Shambo CPN3: nothing wrong with CPN at this stage; the N may be setting her up (see preview) as next week's decoy boot Yasmin OTTN5: INV followed by OTTN is the recipe for early boot Ashley MOR3: memorable quote: "we're going to be picked off 1 by 1" Ben OTTN5: it's tough to sustain two villains, but Ben and Russell are a bit reminiscent of Jamie and Judd in S11, and they lasted quite awhile, providing some of the (many) distractions from the UTRP winner Jaison CPP3: great episode for Jaison Betsy CPP4 Liz MOR3: mostly narration, but there was an interesting sequence where Russell says that Marissa had to go because she was a strong woman, and that's immediately followed by Liz squealing in fear at the breaking of a tree limb; what with all the smug reaction shots, I'm still predicting an N arc for Liz Mick UTR3: For the leader, Mick is getting little emphasis. But he wasn't ignored the way the other leader, goodRussell was. Good for Mick. Mike OTT4 Natalie INV badRussell CPN5 Likely: Mick, Jaison, goodRussell, Shambo Maybe: Ashley, Liz, Monika To watch: the fates of Ben and badRussell. I think one will go soon, but if they both last awhile it suggests a UTRP winner.
unduli clone		#730	[-]
Posts: 7478 (09/27/09 07:43 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Ads no mass Remove this ad Jedijake wrote: Part of me wonders if we shouldn't compare Russell's targeting Ashley next to Fairplay's statement to the effect of: I have a million dollars saying she does NOT win., regarding Sandra. Exactly. (: I think Ashley's been thrown a lot of unnecessary footage and a ton of heavy manipulation, so my eyes are both all over her.
Oowatanite		#731	[-]
Posts: 8712 (09/27/09 08:28 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	wallduck wrote: Shambo CPN3 Wallduck, what was CP about Shambo in Ep2 ? Losing some fishing gear ? Goofing off in the water ? Coming back with no fish and no "good news" ?
SFC		#732	[-]
Posts: 717 (09/27/09 09:54 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	unduli clone wrote: Jedijake wrote: Part of me wonders if we shouldn't compare Russell's targeting Ashley next to Fairplay's statement to the effect of: I have a million dollars saying she does NOT win., regarding Sandra. Exactly. (: I think Ashley's been thrown a lot of unnecessary footage and a ton of heavy manipulation, so my eyes are both all over her. Ashley is manipulated . But I doubt she is the winner. One thing alot of people (And myself) have been tricked by is you need to check for the winners quote which usually happens in Episode 1 that tells you who they are. I dont see Probst reading Ashley the winner, coming back from commercial break and talking about liking dogs. I've narrowed it down to Mick, Shambo, and Ben for that reason.
Die Apokalyptischen Reiter		#733	[-]
Posts: 1637 (09/27/09 10:23 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Oowatanite wrote: JT knew Coach was being booted and just threw him a vote for jury purposes. You said it yourself. He never voted against him for jury purposes. Oowatanite wrote: If Taj would expect a vote from JT, why would she promise (in her exit confessional) to vote for Erinn to win if she reached the F2 ? Because JT was Jalapao, Erinnnn Timbira. However, Stephen was Jalapao, Exile Alliance, idol keeper and main confidant. Stephen lost Taj's vote all by himself when he voted against her. Oowatanite wrote: JT betrayed his two most important allies after Stephen at F5. No, he didn't. JT voted Erinnnnn at F5 when Coach left, and never voted against Coach. Stephen voted against Taj and HE was Taj's most important ally, NOT JT. JT never voted against his most important ally: Stephen.
Joaqenix		#734	[-]
Posts: 4589 (09/28/09 10:28 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	unduli clone wrote: Jedijake wrote: Part of me wonders if we shouldn't compare Russell's targeting Ashley next to Fairplay's statement to the effect of: I have a million dollars saying she does NOT win., regarding Sandra. Exactly. (: I think Ashley's been thrown a lot of unnecessary footage and a ton of heavy manipulation, so my eyes are both all over her. Yep. tbh, I was thinking her for the winner after just the first episode. Whenever a younger girl gets a lot of random screentime for no real reason, you have to pay attention to that. I thought her first episode was very Parvati-esque, both targeted, etc. and then her second one she was shown being the audience's ally in "hey wait, Betsy shouldn't go, shes nice".
SFC		#735	[-]
Posts: 720 (09/28/09 11:51 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Joaqenix wrote: unduli clone wrote: Jedijake wrote: Part of me wonders if we shouldn't compare Russell's targeting Ashley next to Fairplay's statement to the effect of: I have a million dollars saying she does NOT win., regarding Sandra. Exactly. (: I think Ashley's been thrown a lot of unnecessary footage and a ton of heavy manipulation, so my eyes are both all over her. Yep. tbh, I was thinking her for the winner after just the first episode. Whenever a younger girl gets a lot of random screentime for no real reason, you have to pay attention to that. I thought her first episode was very Parvati-esque, both targeted, etc. and then her second one she was shown being the audience's ally in "hey wait, Betsy shouldn't go, shes nice". Episode 1: Boot target, had to be shown. Episode 2: Was spearheading the Keep Betsy campaign. We dont know who else on Foad Foad was trying to keep her, so Ashley may have been the only one, thus making her the one shown trying to keep her.
wallduck		#736	[-]
Posts: 553 (09/28/09 11:53 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Oowatanite wrote: wallduck wrote: Shambo CPN3 Wallduck, what was CP about Shambo in Ep2 ? Losing some fishing gear ? Goofing off in the water ? Coming back with no fish and no "good news" ? Complexity is character development beyond the one-dimensional. It doesn't have to involve strategy or drama, and it doesn't require that the person herself be particularly complex or subtle. In episode 1--at the very outset of episode 1--we learned about Shambo's self-image. How everybody who meets her says, "This chick rocks: we LOVE her!" But there were signs that her tribemates weren't on that wavelength: Shambo was left sitting on land, isolated and alienated, while the others played in the water. Now it's episode 2. Shambo screws up and goofs off, and yet thinks everything's cool. The reaction of her tribemates to her lame "good news/bad news" routine is understandable. We get it, but Shambo doesn't seem to. We are getting a portrait of a person who is deeply out of touch with the world. Do the people who know her back home really think she rocks? Or are they treating her the way people treat borderline personalities? Is Shambo about to flame out and be booted? Or is she going to turn it around and show everyone that she really is special? We don't know, but we're going to find out. That's character development, AKA "good editing." It may not be a lot compared to some characters in some seasons. But given how low the bar has been set this season, it's complex enough for me.
troynuncdicit		#737	[-]
Posts: 441 (09/28/09 12:47 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Foa Foa: Ashley - CPP4 Ben - OTTNN5 Betsy - OTT4 Elizabeth - CP4 Jaison - CP4 Mick - MORP4 Mike - OTTP3 Natalie - INV1 - sorry people, 1 sentence=/=UTR. Russell H - CPN5 Galu: Brett - INV1 Dave - INV1 - 2 sentences=/=UTR. Erik - INV1 John - INV1 - No, he's not UTR, get over it. Kelly - INV1, deal with it Laura - UTR1 Monica - UTR1 Russell S - INV1, he had 1 sentence that was FORCED since he was the leader. That does not automatically make him UTR. Shannon - MORN2 Yasmin - OTTN5 Probable winners: Ashley, Elizabeth, Jaison, Mick Possible, but not probable winners: Russell H, Monica, Shambo
Brazil Luvs Ami		#738	[-]
Posts: 341 (09/28/09 12:54 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Final ratings for episode 2: Notes: * I can understand a MOR for Liz, but I still think she was CP, since she explained why she wants to boot Betsy instead of Ben I think that choosing Yasmin to go to Foa Foa does not make Russell S UTR, imo he was INV * Monica's edition is really weird, she was shown singing "Quero Coco, Porto Rico" or something like that out of nowhere, I think there was a lot of manipulation in this scene, I don't know if she'll be the last Galu standing or, maybe she'll be the winner.. It's really random all the attention she gets Contenders: 1. Mick - he got the best edition on the first episode out of the group left.. 2. Jaison 3. Liz 4. Ashley 5. Russell H 6. Monica 7. Shambo
BigJohn043		#739	[-]
Posts: 1 (09/28/09 02:32 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	astroline wrote: So everyone pretty much seems to be on the same page as far as winners are concerned, we've all posted varying degrees of the same lists... everyone eliminated except the top 4 (Jaison, Liz, Mick, Ashley), the "alternate" edits (Russell H., Monica), and in between both (Shambo). That's only 7 out of the 17 left, and 4 of those are women too. I would be completely shocked if the winner doesn't come from this group of 7, cos everyone else has either been INV or OTTNN. Russell H. & Monica are stretches enough as it is, but their edits at least could somehow make a little bit of sense. The other 10... no chance at all, which is a shame. However, my winner list still only consists of Liz. I'm just too confused about this season, but it's fun. As a long time Edgic reader I have been surprised by the winner picks thus far. I agree with your core group of 7 but would order them in a very different way: Mick - Has to be the clear front runner at this point. He was clearly introduced to us in the first episode as a doctor who could bring some of his skills to the game of survivor. He then fades into the background despite being picked as the tribal leader. He is surrounded by all of the distractions but is still kept in the picture. If Mick was going to win this is clearly an edit that he could have been given. Shambo & Bad Russell - Both were introduced to us clearly in the first episode. They both have an OTT edit, but frankly I think they are both OTT personality types and I actually think the editors have done as much as they could to make them real characters. For Shambo, they had to show the picks for the tribal leader and the first challenge and there is no doubt she came off as OTT in those. However, they have spent a bunch of time helping us understand her Marine background and how she views the other players. If Shambo was going to win this is an edit they could have given her. The same is true for Bad Russell. After all, he is burning socks, dumping canteens, finding idols and strategizing like a mad man. He also gives a great evil, condescending and obnoxious confessional. How can the editors ignore a classic character like him? Both of these characters need to continue to show depth and Bad Russell needs a cool down (for instance when the other tribe goes to TC). But if either Shambo or Bad Russell was going to win I can clearly see the editors giving them this type of edit. Both of these characters seem to be dismissed by other posters and I would ask how anyone thinks they would be edited differently if either found a way to win. Jaison, Liz & Ashley - All three have gotten some solid air-time while remaining neither too P or N. But I don't really know any of these three. Jaison is the black guy who can swim, but who is he and what is his strategy in the game? We know that Liz doesn't mind being thought of as smart beause she is Asian, but what else do we know about her? All we really know about Ashley is that some think she is physically weak and she says that she has good cardio. What do these people do in the real world and how does that impact their surivor game? What is their strategy? What kind of people are they? In the first episode we were introduced to Mick, Betsey, Bad Russell, Ben, Shambo and Good Russell (to a certain extent). If one of these three had won don't you think we might have gotten a one or two sentence confessional setting up their story a bit more? I am sure that they have hours on the cutting room floor that would have done the trick. That being said, you can't fully eliminate them because they did get some intro but I would put them clearly below the three above. Monica - I can't actually believe anyone is picking her. We know nothing about Monica at all. If she was going to win we would have at least gotten a sentence or two about her. She is totally eliminated in my book. Ben and Good Russell have a better shot than her and they have both been eliminated in my book. A lot can change through the rest of the game. Ns can become Ps. Characters can cool down. After two episodes I think the key question to ask is if each character found a way to win would they have been edited this way. Last Edited By: BigJohn043 09/28/09 03:47 PM. Edited 1 times.
scepticA		#740	[-]
Posts: 1693 (09/28/09 04:47 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Ads no mass Remove this ad BigJohn043 wrote: Shambo & Bad Russell - Both were introduced to us clearly in the first episode. They both have an OTT edit, but frankly I think they are both OTT personality types and I actually think the editors have done as much as they could to make them real characters. For Shambo, they had to show the picks for the tribal leader and the first challenge and there is no doubt she came off as OTT in those. However, they have spent a bunch of time helping us understand her Marine background and how she views the other players. If Shambo was going to win this is an edit they could have given her. The same is true for Bad Russell. After all, he is burning socks, dumping canteens, finding idols and strategizing like a mad man. He also gives a great evil, condescending and obnoxious confessional. How can the editors ignore a classic character like him? Both of these characters need to continue to show depth and Bad Russell needs a cool down (for instance when the other tribe goes to TC). But if either Shambo or Bad Russell was going to win I can clearly see the editors giving them this type of edit. Both of these characters seem to be dismissed by other posters and I would ask how anyone thinks they would be edited differently if either found a way to win. They also showed Shambo as somewhat lazy (swimming/bathing in the gooey swamp water when the tribe thought she was fishing - you even got an SPV contradicted "somewhat P" from one of the tribespeople that Shambo said she was a fisher, and she hopes Shambo comes back with tons o' fish - - only to have the edit cut to Shambo lollygagging in the swamp water. Not a good editing trick for a winner, ever. Then Shambo loses part of the snorkel where it can't be found and announces she didn't catch fish but there are tons of 'em out there on the reef. All of her "ex-Marine" personna in the first episode vanished. She didn't act like an ex-marine but like a hick who's also something of a ditz. This is NOT the edit you give to a winner. She is right now #1 on the Galu Hit Parade (in which the defintion of "hit" is derived from The Sopranos.) Your statement about Russell and his edit ("I would ask how anyone thinks they would be edited differently if either found a way to win") has been stated by several others here. The problem is that this edit is not in keeping with an edgic winner. That's all. If he does win it will be a "type 2" win (which I define as "edgic screwed up") If edgic is to mean anything in the edgic thread then I'd say that he is a distraction, probably the biggest distraction in Survivor history. If he wins, tally him next to Bob and Danni, albeit on the Evil side of the ledger. I have nothing wrong with people wondering if Russell could win. Sure he could. But how about people who posit this to describe how it relates to edgic? Regarding your Mick analysis, I think it's spot on. I think you're being a little harsh on the "other 3" - Jaison, Liz, and Ashley. We know something about them. In fact, I think Jaison has gotten a good and subtle edit. We see of him as breaking through stereotypes, thoughtful, well-spoken. He is the only person that Russell seems to be willing to break one of his "rules" for: I'm not going to tell anyone about the HII, followed shortly by .... I told Jaison because I trust him... he's the sort of guy you want to take with you... He's the only person that Russell has given P SPVs to without qualifiers. Liz isn't as strong as Jaison, but still easily within a good edgic edit. We know she is smart, perceptive about stereotypes and not wanting to get button-holed by it, and a good player. She's also a rarity - a female that Russell hasn't dissed. I'm not as keen on Ashley's edit as other people, in fact she could go soon. But she certainly isn't the stretch for edgic as one of the INV people on Galu. One thing about Russell - as evil, smart, cunning, blah blah blah as he is, isn't he also perhaps the best narrator in the history of the game? To me, the poster child for narrators was Austin, but everything Russell says or observes seems to be bolstered by the edit. That is also excellent narration, aside from evil, smart, cunning.... Narrators don't win.

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S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)