S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)

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LKMOSCAR		#1101	[-]
Posts: 7946 (10/04/09 10:05 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Oowatanite wrote: Wow LKMOSCAR, you do realize that's an awful lot of editing intent for Liz in Ep3, when she's still gonna get UTR1 rating ? Doesn't change the fact that I thought of those things.
astroline		#1102	[-]
Posts: 2643 (10/04/09 10:21 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Final ratings. Thanks to immunityidol.net for these screencaps that I'm using for this. EPISODE 3 FOA FOA Ashley -- MOR4 What a weird edit. Her visibility seems to be have been pretty much the same for every episode, with the same hints of tone and hints of complexity but not really. It's like her edit is a season-long one instead of going episode by episode. That being said, is she only being shown so much because she has to be? We might find out someday. Ben -- OTTNN5 Later. Jaison -- OTTP5 The hero of the episode for sure, but done in unconventional methods. I know my stock in him rose as a person after this episode, but as a winner? Threatening to quit if Ben doesn't get voted out? The editors could have left that out if Jaison won and we wouldn't have known the difference. He's off my winner's list but he's one of my favorites now. Liz -- UTRP1 Still my #1 winner pick, but when Natalie has a bigger role than you during the episode, problems might be ahead. Although she did get some P SPV, and was shown in some important discussions, but no confessionals or TCQ's for the first time. She was shown in the challenges too in a good light, but she needs a bigger role next episode. Mick -- CP4 Holy shit this guy is boring. But his edit is pretty good and definitely fits the guidelines. However... no. Not falling for another Marcus or Stephen or Brendan or whoever with this dude. His edit is good, but it could be even better. Natalie -- MOR2 This girl is afraid to have an opinion. About anything. She's lost in the shuffle. Russell H. -- CPN5 I actually considered not giving him an N this time, but I went back and saw his conversations with Ben, the gloating, the arrogance, all over again. It's a weaker N than the previous episodes, but it's still there and probably will be for a long time. GALU Brett -- INV1 He seems really cool. Oh well. Dave -- UTR1 I don't like him. Luckily he's not visible at all. Erik -- UTR1 Bummer too because I still like him and this is all he'll get. John -- UTR1 Eh. Kelly -- UTR1 Why is she on this show? Complete cannon fodder, useless and she'll be inconsequential. Laura -- UTR2 Laura's biggest episode so far! Definitely seen as the silent leader of Galu, it's only implied but you can tell because of the yoga crew (Erik, Brett, Kelly) and then her scenes Monica as well. I'm not giving tone because I saw some slight P for the challenge and some slight N for the yoga and being possibly overconfident, but none of it was actually stated so I don't think there was an intent for her edit. Monica -- UTR2 Another fluff confessional, and her friendship with Laura is highlighted. That's it. Russell S. -- MORM2 Good guy, but you can't just please the women, you have to please all of them. Shambo -- CPP4 She really should have been on Foa Foa from the start. But then could you imagine how ignored Galu would be? Well, actually yeah I can imagine it, cos it's happening that way anyway. Nevermind. Good, positive, reflective edit. She's trying to build relationships on the other tribe because she knows she could be screwed on Galu first. Yasmin -- INV1 I forgot about her. I knew she'd go right back to INV/UTR. Winners list... 1. Liz 2. Russell H. 3. Mick 4. Ashley
fat little fingers		#1103	[-]
Posts: 6240 (10/04/09 10:42 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Feel free to give Liz a P this episode. It would be the same formula that I used to give nearly all the Galu women an N. There is so little edit content that any tone influence can indicate intent. I see Liz as a definite part of the post-merge story. But her role has been as a secondary support character. This is shown by all the opportunities missed for her to comment on those around her and how she sees her world. Her one strong comment was her opening confessional on wanting not to be seen as "sneaky or conniving". I suspect that this may be exactly what she tries to do in the future. Great post, Warrior. (Not that I'm biased or anything.) But, I'm going to rewatch ep1 today, since I've still got the Gabon willies. For what it's worth, my official Casual Viewer (aka, Mrs.lf) says that she can still only remember the two Russels, Mick, Jaison, Ben, Yasmin, Shambo, and "that little blond girl" who was worried about TC. She can see Jaison winning and she likes Shambo. She has no belief that Evil Russ could win and has little opinion on the rest.
Oowatanite		#1104	[-]
Posts: 8831 (10/04/09 10:53 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	astroline wrote: Russell S. -- MORM2 Good guy, but you can't just please the women, you have to please all of them. I think you got that lyric wrong. It's "you can't please ev'ryone, so you got to please yourself".
guatemala fanfic	EPISODE 3 FINAL RATINGS	#1105	[-]
Posts: 5282 (10/04/09 10:54 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Survivor: Samoa - Episode 3 (Ratings Watchdog) Here are my final ratings for this week: Foa Foa Tribe Ashley - MOR4 - Defends herself to Ben about her vote - [1] Never been so confused in my entire life; someone said I was the one who brought up Ben's name so I do not feel safe; I wanna know who told him - [2] Don't know what to think anymore; Ben has some personal thing against me, trying to not be eliminated but it's hard - [A] Not the weakest, not having a negative attitude around the tribe - [B] Known the last couple days that Ben is gonna vote for me, but I packed my bags * Not quite CP this time, leaning P again but not quite enough this week; she was very narrative not insightful Ben - OTTNN5 - Highlighted in the recap for being a negative force at camp - [1] Almost out of flint cause these people don't know anything, I'm the only one who knows what I'm doing; Mick's not outdoorsy like me; - [2] Without my help, these people will die - Tells the girls that they won't be able to start the fire on their own - Confronts Ashley about backstabbing him - [3] Ashley stabbed me in the back the other day so she's gonna get cut (complete with scissors motion) - [A] Ashley is weakest link, voting her out - Gets into an extended argument with Jaison at Tribal Council over Ben's negative comments towards Yasmin - Says that there's nothing he can think of that he regrets Jaison - OTTP5 - Talks to Mick about strategy; says that Ben has to be the next to go - [1] Ben was this close to saying something to Yasmin that would have made me fly off the handle, he's a mental plague on the tribe - Talks with Ashley and says he might quit if Ben stays - [2] Might just walk out of the game if Ben is still here, but have no intention of actually quitting - Insists on voting out Ben - [A] Think Shambo is amazing, would love to trade Shambo for Ben; incredibly negative force around camp - Gets into a confrontation - [B] No one million dollars that is worth me sitting here with Ben any more - Gets into an extended argument with Ben at Tribal Council over Ben's negative comments towards Yasmin Liz - UTRP2 - Challenge visibility, reaction shots, background role to everyone else on Foa Foa but she was around enough to earn her a 2, I think * Thanks to those who answered my question about her; I definitely can see the P intent, and I thought it was too minor to justify me giving her the P, but I just did not feel right about neutral; call it a gut feeling if you want, it just didn't sit well with me Mick - CP4 - Talking about voting out Ben if they lose another challenge - Ben instructs him on how to make fire but he doesn't succeed at making fire - [1] Winning tribe got to choose someone & Russell chose Shambo; totally different than Yasmin, we'd like to adopt her - [2] Here to find the Immunity Idol and get information to take back to her tribe - [3] Russell and Liz are adamant about voting Ashley out, but I'm definitely loyal to Jaison - Has a strategic talk with Russell about voting out Ben vs. Ashley - Russell shows him the hidden Immunity Idol to earn his trust Natalie - UTR2 - A brief conversation with Russell about Betsy's Tribal Council and the next vote - [A] (in between the Jaison/ Ben fight) Leaning back incase fists go flying so she doesn't get hit - I initially had her as MOR, but I'm downgrading her to UTR after several rewatches Russell H. - CPN5 - Highlighted in the recap for being responsible for being responsible for Betsy's ouster - A brief conversation with Natalie about Betsy's Tribal Council and the next vote - [1] Nobody's playing the game on my tribe except me and it's crazy; - [2] This might be the worst group in history & I might be the best - [3] Ben's trying to tell everybody they can't survive without him, which I applaud but that's not how you do it - [4] As long as Ben keeps his crazy antics going, he's getting a target; he's strong in the challenges - Tells Ben that Ashley was trying to get rid of him & they're all gonna vote Ashley - [5] Gonna get rid of every person that tries to get rid of Ben; I need Ben - [6] Plant that seed in their head, it grows, it's called a Russell seed; it takes over their whole mind; makes it easy for me to manipulate every single one of them - [7] How can they not even think it was me [that told Ben about Ashley?] Shocking that these people trust me so much; they're idiots - [8] I'm the boss; I found the Immunity Idol without any clues; running this whole show - Has a strategic talk with Mick about voting out Ben vs. Ashley - [9] Want Mick to trust me and know how important it is for this to work; show him hidden Immunity Idol because it's a powerful tool; my alliance with Mick is solid so that's just another vote for me to get Ashley out - [10] Gotta put a squash on the all-girl thing and take control - [11] I want to keep Ben around but I don't want them not to trust me - [A] Ben said negative things that might have been racial that affected how Jaison thought about him Galu Tribe Brett - INV1 Dave - UTR1 - [1] Danger Dave would have taken the function in 0 seconds, but it was Russell's choice, we weren't allowed to make the decision Erik - UTR1 - Gets treemail with Kelly - [1] Would have sacrificed everything for the tarp; the minute it rains those comfort items are going to be soaked; people think it's Club Med out here; it's not - Almost a P for being sensible, whereas his confessional (combined with Shambo's) almost made me hand out some Ns to the girls John - UTR1 - [1] After we arrived back, there was a little monologue by Russell; felt obliged to justify his decision; you're still going to be uncomfortable even with a few pillows and beach towels Kelly - UTR1 - Gets treemail with Erik - Called "unstoppable" during the challenge by Jeff * Her airtime in this scene is enough for her to get UTR1; it puts her on par with the other Galu members who had confessionals (reading treemail was equivalent) Laura - UTRN2 - [1] Winning, feeling good, all pitching in at camp, all doing stuff; we don't have to always be in game mode and that's a huge advantage that we have over Foa Foa - Strong challenge performance * I realize it might seem like she's being unfairly targeted of the women, but I'm giving her an N for leading the yoga scene and getting a lazy portrayal Monica - UTR1 - [1] Got treemail today which came with nice, comfy sac of clothing which was our swimsuits, it feels awesome - Minor negativity due to being in the "Club Med" group Russell S. - MORM3 - As leader, gets to decide on Comfort vs. Function for Reward and send Shannon over to Foa Foa's tribe - Describes his decision to the group - [1] Towels? What the hell do we need towels for? Know the guys are going to be all over me, but if I make the women happy, we'll be happy - Borderline CP but I don't think it's enough * M because his decision to take the Comfort was questioned, but he was also trying to look out for the women and take care of them, which leans P; I think we were meant to side with Erik, but I still don't see it as a clear N for Russell * A 3 seems more reasonable for his visibility due to his confessional, explaining his decision twice (at length), and getting multiple SPVs; he had more airtime than people like Laura and Liz who were 2s Shannon - CPP4 - Highlighted in the recap for not fitting in with the tribe - [1] Are you kidding me? Got four people doing yoga this morning; alienated because I'm not in the 90210 clique; I'm in the provider role; do we have food? Water? No. Screw yoga. - Makes a humorous comment about wearing a jogger bra - Gets sent over to Foa Foa by Russell - [2] Wanted to create interpersonal relationships with everybody, so was tickled pick to head over & check out Foa Foa - [3] Thought the note was the hidden Immunity Idol clue & I was right - [4] Tribe is probably gonna try to vote me out sooner or later anyway, so this clue totally rocks - [5] Taught them a few new tricks they didn't know, trying to be helpful and make new relationships - Positive SPV from Mick, Ashley, Jaison Yasmin - UTR1 - Things are going good at camp, we need comfort; that's the way to go - Lots of SPV at Tribal Council * I changed Liz to UTRP
guatemala fanfic	WINNER SPECULATION	#1106	[-]
Posts: 5283 (10/04/09 10:56 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Potential Winners "Best" Contenders This is getting to become really difficult because I think just about everybody has some major flaws in their edits. Mick - I do think that a lot of his Episode 1 airtime was because he was selected as leader; however, he was shown early on in the premiere which is good. In Episodes 2 and 3, he continued to get a lot of content and airtime, and even his first true CP this episode. The only problem is that he's been to Tribal Council in all three episodes, so of course he's going to be shown. It will be interesting to see what his edit is like the first time he does NOT go to Tribal Council. Yes, there is a degree of him being a "Marcus" pick, but Marcus really had no doubt at all and he was completely toneless all the time, which isn't a good thing. Mick has already had more tone and, with so much uncertainty about the editing this season, he isn't necessarily an "obvious" pick. I will be cautious of him if he starts getting a string of boring, neutral CPs. Jaison - I rated him MORP in Episode 1 and officially he's only an UTR2, so that's something to keep in mind. He did get a confessional talking about himself, but he probably needs something more significant than just talking about water polo. Still, his Episode 2 edit was very strong and the positivity is a good thing also. After Episode 3, he might be running the risk of being too positive and going OTTP in a crucial vote isn't really the best for him. On top of that, next week, it looks like he might be considering quitting the game or something like that, so really, I don't think he'll win, but there isn't anyone else whose edit is strong enough to go as my #2 right now. Ashley - Overall, she has a good edit but she's in the same boat as Mick in that she's gone to Tribal Council three times (and been a target at 2 of them). I think this is a primary reason for her being shown as much as she is, and I'm interested to see what she gets when she doesn't go to TC. Her first confessional was about feeling sad over Russell's dog. I would expect something a little more significant earlier on if she was the winner. Other than that, her edit was fairly good on the amount of content, but the negative tone is puzzling. Her Episode 2, like Jaison's, was VERY strong though. It would be a little strange for her to go from MORN to CPP though if she was the winner. This week she was a target again and they could have given her a bit more CP, but instead she was just MOR. Again, I like her edit, but I don't know that she'll win with it. Liz - She got a confessional commenting on herself in Episode 1 and she had some narration in Episode 2 that also provided a bit of insight and strategy, so she isn't looking bad right now just if you look at her edit. Episode 3 might be a bit problematic though; she got no confessionals or TCQs, but she did have some SPV and she was definitely around. The biggest problem, though, is that she doesn't seem to have any long-term story going. She's just commenting on what's going on right now or playing a background role. I don't think she'll win, but edit-wise, she's one of the best, despite the flaws. Second Best Monica - my Type-2 winner choice - I see she's starting to get noticed by more people now. I am cautious about how much I push for her because I frequently get annoyed by the people who support the young pretty girls for no reason, but I still think she's one of the strongest choices. I realize some people disagree, but I have my reasons for keeping an eye on her edit. See below: Episode 1: Galu was so ignored due to everything revolving around Russell that the fact that she was given the 6^th confessional and commented on the leadership theme seems really significant. There was seemingly no need to put her in there, yet she was. Consider that someone like Monica won. She played no part in the main story of what was going on, she's not the chief like Russell S., and she's not the star like Shannon, so what would the editors do with her? I would say they'd give her a confessional like this. It's only been one episode so I can't build a strong case and I don't want her to be the next Amanda/Alexis/Erinn, but I'll be watching her very closely. Episode 2: Once again, Monica was put into the episode when she had no part in the story and didn't really have to be shown. It was another Foa Foa dominated episode so the fact that she was one of only 3 Galu members to get a confessional has to mean something. I am not concerned yet by her lack of visibility as there are logical reasons to explain why other characters are being shown as much as they are. Still, the first episode that she goes to Tribal Council will be very significant. Episode 3: Monica gets a confessional put into the episode again, and it really could have gone to anyone on the tribe (especially Kelly, who read treemail) but Monica was chosen anyway. Like the first two episodes, there wasn't much going on at Galu and really the only story they got involved the yoga, which Monica wasn't a part of and Russell's leadership call, both of which kindof had to be shown. I will definitely admit that the fact that the Galu women, as a whole, were portrayed as lazy and thinking the game was like "Club Med" is not a good thing, but I maintain that we have to see her edit when she goes to Tribal Council, so we'll see… Unsure What to Think Russell H. - Edgically, he should definitely be eliminated because he doesn't fit the established guidelines but I'm just really unsure what to think about him. Some of his lines, like "I want to show how easy it is to win the game" make me think there might be something there but then again, he's so unconventional. I think that if he was the winner, they would not try to tone down his edit. Having the "biggest villain ever" as the winner would only be more promotable and get more people talking. Still, I acknowledge it doesn't fit "Edgic" which is why I'm keeping him down here. Almost Eliminated Shannon - I think she'll be a big character this season, but not the winner. This scene she got in Episode 2 did not seem winner-ish to me at all, and the CPP to MORN transition is weird. Her Episode 3 was better but I just don't see the winner being edited the way she was in Episode 2, so I'm not moving her up at all. I think she's a big character this season who might jump ship to Foa Foa, but I don't think she'll win. Eliminated I worry that this is going to be a season where someone who was eliminated early on ends up as the winner (ie. someone random from Galu wins). If the INV1 rule survives this, then I think it is a very solid indicator from now on: Brett Dave Erik John Kelly Laura Natalie Russell S. Yasmin - These are the people who are eliminated by INV1.
Oowatanite		#1107	[-]
Posts: 8833 (10/04/09 11:13 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	INV0
getting real		#1108	[-]
Posts: 1815 (10/04/09 11:15 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	To all who are still upbeat about evil Russell's chances, please don't forget that probably the most fundamental tenet of Edgic is that the winner is typically hidden by distractions. Unfortunately, it's pretty hard to find distractions to hide you when you yourself are the greatest distraction in Survivor history... A couple of things from a few pages back: Jedijake said: Something going against Ashley's chances: no winner has ever been seriously targeted more than once before the merge. The only sort of exception MIGHT be Chris from Vanuatu, but it wasn't the same. Wasn't Parvati the alternative boot target on more than one occasion in Micronesia? Blake asked: but has any Survivor winner hidden their profession? Don't forget Brian James Barber observed: The editors will always make fun of people who do yoga, and they love people like Shambo who are supposedly more down to earth, This is a very interesting observation. Editing bias certainly makes for very interesting analysis. I've seen a Survivor series from another culture were people doing yoga was edited in a very positive way, as if the practitioners were readying themselves for the battle. Needless to say this group produced the eventual winner - something which is unlikely to happen with the Galus.
BlakeB717		#1109	[-]
Posts: 1814 (10/04/09 12:10 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	LKMOSCAR wrote: guatemala fanfic wrote: LKMOSCAR wrote: Hate to disagree with you Warrior, and the others, but Elizabeth should really get a positive rating this episode. I'm doing my final ratings now. Can someone please give a specific reason why they think she is positive? I would appreciate it. Thanks. I REALLY believe that she was given a positive edit. I know that we can only include so much challenge SPV, but the fact is that our hero, Shambo, backed it up entirely when first meeting her. Liz was the only girl, and maybe person, on Foa Foa edited as really working hard and doing well in the challenge. We also got to see her working in camp but that's kind of beside the point. You do realize that Shambo said something nice to each person and then got a confessional saying she wants to make personal relationships aka she probably wasn't being completely sincere and wanted them to like her. Her comments had nothing to do with Liz and had everything to do with emphasizing Shambo's ability to effectively pursue her strategy. I have to rewatch, still, but I'm doubtful on a P for Liz.
scepticA		#1110	[-]
Posts: 1703 (10/04/09 12:10 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Brian H announced when he introduced himself that he came from the "fast-paced world of used car sales" or something like that. Unless he's really a crack dealer he told people what he was.
GoHomeAndEatYoRice		#1111	[-]
Posts: 2130 (10/04/09 12:13 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Final Ratings. FOA FOA Ashley- MOR4 Jaison- OTTP5 Liz- UTRP1 Ben- OTTNN5 Mick- CP4 Natalie- UTRP2 Russell H.- CPN4 Galu Brett- INV0 Dave- UTR1 Erik- UTR1 John- UTR1 Kelly- UTR1 Laura- UTRM2 Monica- UTRM2 Russell S.- MOR2 Shannon- CPP4 Yasmin- INV0 Winners Pick- 1. Ashley 2. Mick 3. Jaison 4. Liz Type 2 Winner- 1. Monica I'll add comments to next episode.
goohst		#1112	[-]
Posts: 1184 (10/04/09 1:06 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Oowatanite wrote: If we're gonna give Liz a P for "huge positive SPV" from the almighty ~~Shupert~~ Shambo, where's Laura's P and Kelly's P for "huge positive SPV" from the almighty Probst ? Except Liz got the same "huge positive SPV" from Probst and Shambo. She gets a P.
Joss Wolfe		#1113	[-]
Posts: 1189 (10/04/09 1:31 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	so when coomes the twist that kicks all of galu off the island at once as the usual inv0>5 spike that we are used to seeing this early in the season?
getting real		#1114	[-]
Posts: 1816 (10/04/09 1:35 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	scepticA wrote: Brian H announced when he introduced himself that he came from the "fast-paced world of used car sales" or something like that. Unless he's really a crack dealer he told people what he was. His real 'profession' was, ahem, much more exotic, lol...
scepticA		#1115	[-]
Posts: 1704 (10/04/09 1:40 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Geez, getting real, just cuz he did a few exotic films doesn't mean he's an exotic film actor. I mean, all those bartenders and waiters in LA who got on one commercial for Miller Lite three years ago don't call themselves actors, do they? Oh, wait... I'm waiting for the Type 3 winner to be defined.
getting real		#1116	[-]
Posts: 1817 (10/04/09 3:02 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	scepticA wrote: I'm waiting for the Type 3 winner to be defined. Type 3 winner profile: Over-exposed distractions with thespian tendencies.
astroline		#1117	[-]
Posts: 2644 (10/04/09 3:08 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	getting real wrote: scepticA wrote: I'm waiting for the Type 3 winner to be defined. Type 3 winner profile: Over-exposed distractions with thespian tendencies. Sierra? We picked her last season for 3 of the first 4 weeks. Others would be Sugar, Coach, now Russell H.?
Edinboro		#1118	[-]
Posts: 5110 (10/04/09 3:27 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I am absolutely baffled that so many people have Liz as one of their winner picks. I remember next to nothing about her. She's not even on my radar...
Oowatanite		#1119	[-]
Posts: 8834 (10/04/09 3:43 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	goohst wrote: Oowatanite wrote: If we're gonna give Liz a P for "huge positive SPV" from the almighty ~~Shupert~~ Shambo, where's Laura's P and Kelly's P for "huge positive SPV" from the almighty Probst ? Except Liz got the same "huge positive SPV" from Probst and Shambo. She gets a P. Okay. P for Liz. P for Kelly. P for Laura. P for Monica for Laura's "huge positive SPV" while they were cuddling at camp. P for Mickdreamy. P for smileyface. P for EVERYBODY. Wait a minute. Monica got the happy treemail confessional. Monica was part of GRuss' Angels. Monica is the cheerleader and sweetheart of Galu. So Monica gets PP. YAY !!
getting real		#1120	[-]
Posts: 1818 (10/04/09 3:45 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I am absolutely baffled that so many people have Liz as one of their winner picks. I remember next to nothing about her. She's not even on my radar... Still spending time being baffled, Lyn?

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S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)