S-19 Edgic (editing and logic) in Survivor Speculation Forum

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S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)

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Oowatanite		#1901	[-]
Posts: 9073 (10/24/09 09:41 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Proofread carefully to see if you any words out. Remove this ad McPhever224 wrote: BlakeB717 wrote: McPhever224 wrote: goohst wrote: I do think that the scene with the clique girls (Kelly, Laura, Monica) coming in talking about booting Shambo, then changing it abruptly has to be considered. Full N for all? Probably not. The question is, who gets associated with that? If it's Monica, then Monica is N, whether you like it or not. How is that N, they're strategizing, and don't want Shambo to hear, please enlighten me. You're not looking at the editting intent. I completely agree with what they're doing: they don't want Shambo to hear, they're playing a game. I would have done the same; but the editors put that in there to make them look fake (notice how none of them got confessionals saying "We were strategizing and then we saw Shambo so we had to put it on hold") there was no narration about it--it was simply them walking, talking about how Sham needs to go and then being all like "SHHH SHHH.... Oh hey what're you doing ^_^" and Shambo didn't get a confessional about it, which made it look like she probably fell for their fakeness. Anyways, I don't want to analyze a little scene, but it looked bad on the girls. The editors didn't put that scene of them saying SHH SHH before their confrontation with Shambo to make it look like "Oh they're strategizing, they're doing what they have to". No, it was to look like they were being nasty--ESPECIALLY when Shambo asked them to be honest and tell her if they're putting her name down, Kelly and Monica said "It's so hard, I don't know what I'm going to do" when 5 seconds earlier they all decided for sure what they were doing. Maybe this makes all 3 women N, I'm not sure. Maybe. You're probably right. No, he's not right. So the girls were plotting against Shambo and then kept their intentions hidden from her, even when she asked them to be honest ? BIG DEAL. Not tipping off your target is negative ? Then where are the Ns for John and Erik and Dave for their intentions to blindside Monica ?
cantthinkofaname		#1902	[-]
Posts: 1507 (10/24/09 09:52 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	John Erik and Dave targeted Monica for reasons that made her negative. She doesn't help in challenges etc. Monica's just being "you voted for me, I vote for you" without any real reason or logic, then she also lies about it.
Oowatanite		#1903	[-]
Posts: 9077 (10/24/09 10:06 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	cantthinkofaname wrote: John Erik and Dave targeted Monica for reasons that made her negative. She doesn't help in challenges etc. Monica's just being "you voted for me, I vote for you" without any real reason or logic, then she also lies about it. Good one .... Oh, you're being serious ? Then ...... I think being voted to leave the game IS A PRETTY DAMN GOOD REASON for the intended target to go after the voter. Jeez, c'mon now.
McPhever224		#1904	[-]
Posts: 359 (10/24/09 10:20 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Oowatanite wrote: McPhever224 wrote: BlakeB717 wrote: McPhever224 wrote: goohst wrote: I do think that the scene with the clique girls (Kelly, Laura, Monica) coming in talking about booting Shambo, then changing it abruptly has to be considered. Full N for all? Probably not. The question is, who gets associated with that? If it's Monica, then Monica is N, whether you like it or not. How is that N, they're strategizing, and don't want Shambo to hear, please enlighten me. You're not looking at the editting intent. I completely agree with what they're doing: they don't want Shambo to hear, they're playing a game. I would have done the same; but the editors put that in there to make them look fake (notice how none of them got confessionals saying "We were strategizing and then we saw Shambo so we had to put it on hold") there was no narration about it--it was simply them walking, talking about how Sham needs to go and then being all like "SHHH SHHH.... Oh hey what're you doing ^_^" and Shambo didn't get a confessional about it, which made it look like she probably fell for their fakeness. Anyways, I don't want to analyze a little scene, but it looked bad on the girls. The editors didn't put that scene of them saying SHH SHH before their confrontation with Shambo to make it look like "Oh they're strategizing, they're doing what they have to". No, it was to look like they were being nasty--ESPECIALLY when Shambo asked them to be honest and tell her if they're putting her name down, Kelly and Monica said "It's so hard, I don't know what I'm going to do" when 5 seconds earlier they all decided for sure what they were doing. Maybe this makes all 3 women N, I'm not sure. Maybe. You're probably right. No, he's not right. So the girls were plotting against Shambo and then kept their intentions hidden from her, even when she asked them to be honest ? BIG DEAL. Not tipping off your target is negative ? Then where are the Ns for John and Erik and Dave for their intentions to blindside Monica ? That's what I was thinking, and I'm definitely sticking with my neutrals for all 3 of the girls.
goohst		#1905	[-]
Posts: 1317 (10/24/09 11:06 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Oowatanite wrote: cantthinkofaname wrote: John Erik and Dave targeted Monica for reasons that made her negative. She doesn't help in challenges etc. Monica's just being "you voted for me, I vote for you" without any real reason or logic, then she also lies about it. Good one .... Oh, you're being serious ? Then ...... I think being voted to leave the game IS A PRETTY DAMN GOOD REASON for the intended target to go after the voter. Jeez, c'mon now. If I USE LOTS OF CAPS and my point is stronger!!! ... What you think isn't important. If the editors had had Monica come on the screen and say "I wish we could tell Shambo what we are planning on doing, but that's not how the game works." it'd be different. But they didn't. What the editors showed was Monica, Kelly, and Laura lying for the sake of lying. They were editted heavily as cliquish. This isn't debatable. All were definitely negatively tinged... whether one or all of them got enough N is debatable. Monica would be the one most likely to be N because we watched the guys immediately trash on her after the fact.
BlakeB717		#1906	[-]
Posts: 1962 (10/24/09 11:32 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Oowatanite wrote: McPhever224 wrote: BlakeB717 wrote: McPhever224 wrote: goohst wrote: I do think that the scene with the clique girls (Kelly, Laura, Monica) coming in talking about booting Shambo, then changing it abruptly has to be considered. Full N for all? Probably not. The question is, who gets associated with that? If it's Monica, then Monica is N, whether you like it or not. How is that N, they're strategizing, and don't want Shambo to hear, please enlighten me. You're not looking at the editting intent. I completely agree with what they're doing: they don't want Shambo to hear, they're playing a game. I would have done the same; but the editors put that in there to make them look fake (notice how none of them got confessionals saying "We were strategizing and then we saw Shambo so we had to put it on hold") there was no narration about it--it was simply them walking, talking about how Sham needs to go and then being all like "SHHH SHHH.... Oh hey what're you doing ^_^" and Shambo didn't get a confessional about it, which made it look like she probably fell for their fakeness. Anyways, I don't want to analyze a little scene, but it looked bad on the girls. The editors didn't put that scene of them saying SHH SHH before their confrontation with Shambo to make it look like "Oh they're strategizing, they're doing what they have to". No, it was to look like they were being nasty--ESPECIALLY when Shambo asked them to be honest and tell her if they're putting her name down, Kelly and Monica said "It's so hard, I don't know what I'm going to do" when 5 seconds earlier they all decided for sure what they were doing. Maybe this makes all 3 women N, I'm not sure. Maybe. You're probably right. No, he's not right. So the girls were plotting against Shambo and then kept their intentions hidden from her, even when she asked them to be honest ? BIG DEAL. Not tipping off your target is negative ? Then where are the Ns for John and Erik and Dave for their intentions to blindside Monica ? Again, I think there's a little bit of confusion between editing intent and reality. The editors are trying really hard to make something normal seem bad. Just because Monica's actions are understandable (in reality) doesn't mean on the chart she's free of getting an N--the chart is intended to reflect what the editors want, not what we want.
Katy Carney		#1907	[-]
Posts: 9100 (10/25/09 12:38 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Meh, I agreed with Monica and co's N last week but this week...not so much. Their inclusion really seemed kind of matter of fact, like "oh and here these girls are...I guess...yawn hey do you think we could find a reason to get an eeeevil Russell soundbite in this convo?...no? too much?".
cyclehausen		#1908	[-]
Posts: 4572 (10/25/09 09:42 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	This season is an edgic anomaly, just like Guatemala and Gabon. It's all because Edgic only works when the editing is about how the winner wins. The other two seasons, and this one, are about how the loser loses. Russell goats himself, and that's the story. The winner is a sidebar.
Warrior		#1909	[-]
Posts: 2960 (10/25/09 09:54 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	EPISODE SIX FOA FOA Elizabeth - MOR2 She was a decoy bootee… Visibility - Strong 2 Jaison - MORN3 We are still seeing a gloomy Jaison. Visibility - Medium 3 Mick - MOR3 His edit needs to turn complex very soon! I hope he is not another…Scout. Visibility - Medium 3 Natalie - UTR2 She did say that someone from Glue could flip. Visibility - Solid 2 Russell - OTTM4 He gets a P for his positive attitude and his outstanding work ethic. Visibility - Strong 4 GLUE Brett - UTR1 Where is his beard? Total visibility after 6 episodes is 6! Visibility - 1 Dave - MOR3 Did some narration regarding Russell's situation. Visibility - Weak 3 Eric - MOR5 Odd edit…he may be MOR5…Tree prayer. Visibility Minimal 5 John - CP4 We got some insight from John in this episode. Visibility - Medium 4 Kelly - UTR1 Completely irreverent. Visibility 1 Laura - MOR2 She did some narration. Visibility - Medium 2 Monica - MOR2 She is still after Shambo for trying to vote her out and was the decoy bootee. Visibility - Solid 2. Russell S - OTTPP5 So sad… Visibility - The 3 evacuation scenes push him up to a 5. Shannon - MORP3 We are still supposed to be rooting for her. Visibility - Strong 3 Edited to change Eric to MOR from OTT Edited to give Jaison a N. Edited to change Russell H. from P to M. Last Edited By: Warrior 10/26/09 06:44 AM. Edited 1 times.
NickF227		#1910	[-]
Posts: 12318 (10/25/09 10:50 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Proofread carefully to see if you any words out. Remove this ad Mick is so disgustingly MOR.
Brazil Luvs Ami		#1911	[-]
Posts: 345 (10/25/09 11:03 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Warrior, I counted 2 confessionals for Laura qhat would bump her visibility to three.. The first one she talked about Russ S and the need to keep playing the game, and in the second one she explained why booting Shambo was the better option...
astroline		#1912	[-]
Posts: 2695 (10/25/09 02:26 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Haven't had a chance to post anything yet -- have been way busy and out of state and still am, so I'm just going to post my ratings, update my chart and then vote on the site. That being said, I can now rule out Natalie 100% as actually winning. She was my #4 on a "not impossible" list, but her edit seems to be right back where it was during the first 3 episodes. I would not be surprised if she fades out again for a long time. FOA FOA Jaison -- MORP3 Liz -- MOR2 Mick -- MOR3 Natalie -- UTR2 Russell H. -- OTT4 GALU Brett -- UTR1 Dave -- MOR3 Erik -- OTTP5 John -- CP4 Kelly -- UTR1 Laura -- MOR2 Monica -- UTRN2 Russell S. -- OTTP5 Shambo -- MORP3 Winner's list... 1. Mick 2. Shambo 3. Russell H. Our next Becky/Cassie/Susie... 1. Natalie
BlakeB717		#1913	[-]
Posts: 1964 (10/25/09 03:37 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	This is where I'm at right now. I still have rewatches to do on many episodes, but they're fairly good rough estimates of where my head's at I guess. Totally unsure of Jaison, RussH, and Erik's tone.
Riliss		#1914	[-]
Posts: 5788 (10/25/09 04:47 PM) Ugly on the inside Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Omg cute young things not getting the N that the editors clearly tried to drop in? It's a brand new day!
Phoenix1269		#1915	[-]
Posts: 728 (10/25/09 05:14 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	VOTING REMINDER Please get your votes in. I am going curling tomorrow night, so i am not sure what time i'll be processing the votes, so please vote early. Thanks. -- AND voting numbers are WAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY down right now. I know a lot of people are feeling meh because they think it's Mick, but I would like to remind you that the last time this happened, Marcus got voted off. If there was ever a season where we have a Type B winner, or an "This is how X loses" it is this season. I am strongly reminded of a strange hybrid between Guatamala and Fiji. Guatamala becuase of the "X Loses" story and Fiji for the absolute horrid conditions that brought about so much suffering. Both becuase the majority of the cast is pretty much unlikable (Personally, can't stand Shambo, i find her irritating, and no i am not a 90210 kinda girl)... Point being, we still need to evaluate everyone properly and consistently, just in case we lose Mick.
cindidindi76		#1916	[-]
Posts: 20238 (10/25/09 07:28 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I would vote, but I'm not allowed. : b I think OTTP for Russell H. is the most ridiculous rating I've seen since...well, last week, lol.
OnlyTheHunter		#1917	[-]
Posts: 2030 (10/25/09 09:30 PM) Edgician Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Here are my rankings for the week. Jaison - MORN2 - MOR seems right. Not CP, not UTR. I don't think it'll be a majority opinion, but he was N in my view. He's the complaining, frustrated embodiment that Russell harped on. If the finale is Jaison "overcoming" everything, I can tell you a few fans I know are already hoping he goes immeidately as he is, basically, turning into Osten. The editors either set up his boot, or overdid it. Liz - MOR3 - I debated CP, I'd revisit it. She did discuss her position, but was it in depth enough? Was it superficial, "It's me or Natalie." I went with that. Mick - MOR3 - I compared him to Alexis. Warrior is concerned he's Scout. In the early years, who'd care? But now, with even Bob being a definable character by the merge, I'm concerned about this. I'll admit it. Why not define his game, even, like Bob, if it's a "nongame" game plan? Natalie - UTR2 - Shown less than Liz, less time on saving herself, she followed Russell's lead, and then no vote. Did get the nice line about Foa surviving, the anti-Jaison. Russell - OTTM5 - OTT? Yeah. Not really CP. And Mixed, that was an easy call. He's not P, as he overdid his disdain at gloated about himself too much. But his reasoning was not only smart, but given screen time for the viewer to realize that the Foas do need to step it up. His hope at TC was admirable. That's Mixed. I feel the editors threw up his words, good and bad, and just wanted fans to pay attention to him without concern how it came off. Brett - UTR1 - Maybe a 2? Hard to say, he just isn't important. Dave - MOR3 - Reacted to Russell going down. Eric - OTT5 - Much like Mick, his tree scene wasn't really provoking Tone but unlike Mick, he was in the viewer's face, OTT territory. Interesting that he boasted at TC. I debated Tone, he seemed smug, or confident. He was right, or wrong. Much like Evil Russell, the editors threw that out, and just wanted the audience to take note of him. John - CPP4 - I thought about this. But it fits. He got the internal struggle of Galu, the exposition of where they were. He delivered the obvious first, Russell wasn't coming back, but it came off less sad than thoughtful. (See Jaison for the sad, sickly confessionals.) Kelly - UTR1 - Pretty small tummy for someone who's just a spare tire. Laura - MOR3 - She's the toneless one compared to Monica, and it's the right call. She's the dangerous one the Galu men want to weaken. She's not useless, like Monica, but they need to limit her power. She doesn't get to explain her Shambo vote, and we know the guys are going to defeat her. We're expecting it, and to be happy Shambo will escape the vote. Monica - MORN3 - Monica, though, did head into N terrioty. Negative SPV galore from the Galu men is enough by itself, She got no confessionals explaining her merit, or the fact the wool was going to pulled over her eyes. Russell - OTTPP5 - Wow. The opening fishing shot, a loooooooooooooong shot before any dialogue started, any viewer knew something was up. You admired his spirit, and anyone, anyone will admire him pushing himself "too" hard. You tell yourself you'd do the same thing. The !*+$, the fight, the acknowledged leadership, this was an occurrance the audience saw coming, and yet didn't want to accept at first. Wow. People will recall this pre-merge episode more than most. Shambo - MOR3 - She was targeted by the women, given credit by the men as better to keep than Monica, but that's it. We are clealy supposed to hope she makes it, but are supposed to think she can't. Could she? Wink wink. WINNER - Guess this is my chance to repeat the Exile Island travesty and stick with Shambo ahead of Mick. I don't feel any weight with any of Mick's decisions, even when it's called for. I get all the weight of Shambo's Maybe she is just Cirie, or PG, etc. If so, I see Mick, I'm not that stupid. But looking at seasons 9 and on, every one, even Guat, defined the winner better than Mick has been to this point. Mick certainly is second on my list. You technically can't eliminate Jaison. He got the "CP with high V" in episode two, like many false winners get, but it's not lethal. The continued quitter in him, why beat it in that* much? But he doesn't break anything Edgically. Shambo is a big character. But like Tom Westman and Steph, she's got an uber visible character in Russell always keeping focus from her. Her story has places to go. Mick has higher V than I realized, which is actually good, but not that good considering how little is personalized to him. I know more about Jaison, I just question the presentation of what I know in his case. The rest should all be eliminated. Brett - INV, UTR1 episode 1 (tm Pastordice) Dave - see Brett Liz - INV Erik - INV John - INV Kelly - INV Laura - INV Monica - UTR1 episode 1, UTRN character overall (tm Wallduck) Natalie - see Brett Russell H - excessive visibility numbers That leaves = Shambo, Mick, Jaison. To date, I take Shambo. Michael
fat little fingers		#1918	[-]
Posts: 6293 (10/25/09 10:14 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Episode Sicks - Ratings Foamania Liz MOR2 A holding edit for Liz. She is part of RusselH's big put-down, but Jeff tells us that her big effort at IC saved her last time. She tells us that FoaFoa is a tight family at this point. Jaison MORN3 "Every time we get close to something good, it gets taken away... They would have had to watch us [eat] and seen how it felt... disheartening..." "This whole tribe could be done by day 21 ... at the rate we're going..." All this "wanting heart", "disheartening.." is not good for Jaison's edit. Needing Natalie to build up his resolve doesn't look good. Mick MOR3 The bland edit continues. But he got a big confessional in the middle of Russel's trashing of the tribe. He was allowed to tell his view of their situation, which was reasonable and sympathetic. At TC he "welcomes" Eric's challenge. Low-key moxie. I'll take it. Natalie UTR2 Natalie's response to Jaison's disheartened statement: "I think it can be done... I think it can be done..[if] some of the people flip over there." Russel OTT4M Russel had all the signs that he was being his OTTN asshole self at the start. We even got a reminder of how he'd sabotaged his own tribe to make it "a living hell". The water canteen: But, mixed into his trashing his tribe are speeches about needing to prepare to fight back. He is also given a kind word for RusselS. All of FoaFoa was meant to start looking ready/worthy to take the game. Galuvia Brett UTR1 A confessional about RusselS's camp efforts. Dave MOR3 Relentlessly narrating. It's Dave's big job, after starting fires. Eric MOR5 The King is dead. Long live the new King! Guess who's gonna be chosen leader. Maybe they'll be clever enough to give it to Sham. A replay of Eric's clothesline scene is not good for his future. John CP4 John gets a CP for being the instigator of the ShamWow Maneuver. He explains to us the problem of letting others make his decisions for him, so he grabs the reins, when the chief goes down. Kelly UTR1 Part of the girls' clique. Laura MOR2 (Close to CP) Like the other Galus, she is shaken by Russel's injury: "...We're still playing the game. We're still thinking about who is the next to go, but I know my heart is really heavy for Russel.." She and others admit that they relied on Russel to do the strategy and organizing. Laura is the clear-eyed Galuian about where Shambo fits in: "...Shambo...she could very easily flop sides." And we know she's right. Monica MOR2 She showed real concern for RusselS. And she was given a reasonable confessional about her thoughts on Shambo: "The #1 reason for voting off Shambo, for me, is the fact that she wrote my name down last time. And you gotta take your enemy out he minute you can. And right now seems like an opportune moment." She gets negative SPV from the men that she's the weakest by far and is a threat to work against them with Laura. RusselS OTTPP5 Russel, "...My family depends on me to be the strong one!" Jeff, "You pushed and pushed your body until your body said, 'Enough!'. There's nothing about that that says you're a quitter!" Shambo MORP3 Shown always watching the others. Recap: "The one storm Galu couldn't weather was Shmbo." She's rebuffed by the women, but the men call her their "leader" and agree to protect her while targeting Monica. At TC, Shambo says, "I feel really sad that that's how he went out, 'cause you see this guy with this amazing heart and spirit bigger than life, so, I mean, it's terribly sad." That combined with her last speech pushed her in to P territory: "I'm the 45 year old lady here that will not quit..." Winner Pick Mick Yes, he's been given good vis. He's been protected from any negativity, especially as the leader of the losing tribe. He is totally non-committal about any strategy at this point. This damn well better lead to his end-game story really effin quick! Other choices They all have big problems. I'll post more tomorrow. Gotta stop here.
AbbyGirl		#1919	[-]
Posts: 68 (10/26/09 12:21 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Thanks Warrior and FLF, I always enjoy your posts...and I agree with most of your ratings. To me the Galu girls seem more on the negative side, I think that is the editing intent. Especially Monica, they're not hitting us over the head that she is negative, but it's there. Evil Russell is definitely mixed. I would love to say just negative because I do not like him, but there was some good things in his edit that we can't ignore. He's a jerk that will be there on finale night, but who is with him? Natalie is UTR, but she did have that telling line about how Foa Foa can make it to the end. There is hope at the end of the tunnel, and Natalie is telling us some of Foa Foa will survive and be there until the end. Mick is more visible than Bob was, could it be he is a laid back sort of guy so that's why he is shown the way he is? Why push him in our faces until after merge? There are so many distractions around him to fill the time, the editors don't need to put the mild mannered doctor front and center just yet. Watch him go soon, but I still think he has a good edit considering the season is a strange one. Shambo was UTR the first half, was there more the second half, then she had some great lines at TC. I liked her the last episode, I think most people will be hoping she makes it far and helps Foa Foa get to the end. Galu looked too cocky at TC (except Shambo of course), not just Erik. Did you see the faces they made when anyone on Foa Foa spoke? Go back and look at those face shots, I was really hoping for a Foa Foa comeback after that! Mick's saying to Erik at the end "We welcome it" after Erik said what he did, really sets us up for the next half of the season. Foa Foa will make a comeback, most of Galu will be sitting there on the jury. At least I hope that's what happens! I think John came off really well, too. Not cocky or over confident like the rest of his tribe. Too bad he was so UTR the first four weeks. I don't know how Jaison and Liz fit in, but I don't think they are winning. Jaison keeps wanting to quit and whines a little too much, Liz isn't there enough. I do not think anyone else on Foa Foa was whiny or weak like Jaison, Evil Russell was not right about that. He is getting too one note, I hope we see LESS of ER soon because I am tired of the villain act. My winner picks are still Mick and Shambo, they both have stories that can go somewhere. Does anyone know when the merge is? And will there be twelve on the jury this season? Just wondering.... Last Edited By: AbbyGirl 10/26/09 01:21 AM. Edited 1 times.
BigJohn043		#1920	[-]
Posts: 10 (10/26/09 11:00 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Proofread carefully to see if you any words out. Remove this ad Some thoughts on potential winners: Mick - For the only person that really fits edgic I am surprised that even his supporters seem to be holding back. There is still plenty of time for his story to evolve, but it had better start soon. I also thought the quote where he admitted to be being jealous of Ashley who got to leave wasn't great for his chances. Overall, arrow down for this episode. Shambo - My key take-away was that this was the Shambo redemption episode. Viewers got reminded of the good with the bad. However, she is clearly the big swing vote at some point so this focus could all be about that rather than the winner. Overall, arrow up for this episode. Evil Russel - One part of Survivor is outlast and we got to see Russell really embodying that quality. This was a new dimension for him and a good thing for his edit. We also get reminded once again that he is essentially making the decisions on FF. This is likely the story of why Russell loses, but with limited other good choices he could always win. Overall, arrow up for this episode. Jaison - More wining about how awful it is. Arrow down for this episode. I would eliminate him.

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S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)