Strategy VS Suffering

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Utopian		#21	[-]
Posts: 6490 (10/28/09 9:13 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Yeah, it looks like the constant rain has affected the contestants so much that all their energy is spent defending against the rain rather than each other. Which is a nice change of pace. I continue to be amazed at how little the players know about Survival. Speaking of which, I'm amazed no one, after 20 seasons, has built a teepee as a shelter. It's not that difficult if you know what you're doing and the advantage is that you can build a fire inside the shelter so that you can stay warm even when it rains.
Roasted Samoas		#22	[-]
Posts: 39 (10/28/09 9:21 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	without the survival aspect, it's big brother, and that show is shit
Mypoody2		#23	[-]
Posts: 10552 (10/28/09 10:34 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Strategy is fucking boring. It's the personal relationships that make a television show interesting. If you want strategy go watch a chess game. It's fucking boring. Strategy only helps with your discussion and thought process after the show is over. If you don't care about the people, it doesn't matter how many blindsides or how strategic they are.
CoconutPhone		#24	[-]
Posts: 17420 (10/28/09 11:01 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I like a good mix of both. Heavy emphasis on one or the other hurts the season. Right now I think the divide is good but not great. There's a still a lot unseen just because the majority of the strategy talk happens after the IC and we haven't seen Galu have to go nearly as much. Unfortunately it means a lot of people over there are getting the shaft in screen time. I prefer when the suffering is storyline dictated like this season with the non-stop rain and Outback with the floor and fire. I think it's easier to sympahtize and relate to the suffering when it comes off as unusal in terms of the show. Every season has some suffering but the extreme stuff is when it's interesting. And with strategy too much is just that too much. I want to get to know the people wheeling and dealing. China's a good example of that done well. I liked all the people making those strategic moves to varying degrees. Fans vs Faves was another great example of some great strategy and well examined players.
PrettyGoodYear1988		#25	[-]
Posts: 2802 (10/28/09 11:09 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	BortBort wrote: token lunatic wrote: I think they already have a show like that. It's called Big Brother, and it too is on CBS! I think the US Big Brother is different from the Australian one. The Aussie BB was completely devoid of strategy, so much so that you were penalised and threatened with removal from the game if you even spoke about who you nominated for eviction... Thankfully that shit is no longer being produced in Australia... I take it US BB actually involves some strategy...? US BB is basically Survivor in a house.
gibson97		#26	[-]
Posts: 682 (10/28/09 12:27 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	i don't think it has to be an either / or scenario and there are many more things that editing should be focusing on instead of just strategy and suffering. they need to go back to what survivor is all about - different people thrown together, a character study - and focus on character development development development true strategy talk doesn't develop a character - it's really just a chess board with no emotion.
SuperJude		#27	[-]
Posts: 14813 (10/28/09 1:07 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Yes and no. Like Spunkee said, there can be too much strategizing which becomes boring. This is why I could never watch the BB live feeds, it's all whispering, plotting, running scenarios. That's fine during the edited shows since they show very little but can get grating when watching on youtube. Survivor...I guess it's a mix of strategy, the elements, challenges, personalities, Probst, Tribal Council that makes for a good formula. I just gotta say I wish there were more moments like Fans vs Faves and "tell Erik to give you the Immunity Idol" then watching it happen. The only strategy we've really seen this season is Russell getting rid of people he found threatening to his position. Unless we cound the incredibly painful yet amusing Galu Boys plus Shamu sequence. Poody, you look retarded trying to be all badass and curse like a big boy. Chill out man! -SJ™
Mypoody2		#28	[-]
Posts: 10559 (10/28/09 1:41 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	SuperJude wrote: Yes and no. Like Spunkee said, there can be too much strategizing which becomes boring. This is why I could never watch the BB live feeds, it's all whispering, plotting, running scenarios. That's fine during the edited shows since they show very little but can get grating when watching on youtube. Survivor...I guess it's a mix of strategy, the elements, challenges, personalities, Probst, Tribal Council that makes for a good formula. I just gotta say I wish there were more moments like Fans vs Faves and "tell Erik to give you the Immunity Idol" then watching it happen. The only strategy we've really seen this season is Russell getting rid of people he found threatening to his position. Unless we cound the incredibly painful yet amusing Galu Boys plus Shamu sequence. Poody, you look retarded trying to be all badass and curse like a big boy. Chill out man! -SJ™ This from the 50 year old bald man throwing up gang signs in his avatar... riiiiight.
ThrowMeGabon		#29	[-]
Posts: 799 (10/28/09 1:53 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Strategy is more integral to the game, but suffering is important for a good Survivor. There's nothing worse than a tribe earning a house-shelter or winning every luxury like Moto. I want to see them cry. In recent years, bloated casts and challenges led to cuts in character development (which includes suffering IMO) and they use the only 10 minutes left on vague strategy. There's also been a general lack of suffering as the series progressed...in season 1, everyone competed for a slice of pizza. Nowadays you can be guaranteed a bi-weekly feast. I say fuck the challenges and show me people doing interesting shit...or MAKE THE DAMN THING 2 HOURS LONG. <3 ETA: I've found the last few rain episodes of Samoa refreshing and reminiscent of Australia. The strategic storyline always gets so convoluted, it's nice to take a break. Last Edited By: ThrowMeGabon 10/28/09 1:57 PM. Edited 1 times.
Rusty22		#30	[-]
Posts: 14 (10/28/09 7:20 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	SuperJude wrote: Yes and no. Like Spunkee said, there can be too much strategizing which becomes boring. This is why I could never watch the BB live feeds, it's all whispering, plotting, running scenarios. That's fine during the edited shows since they show very little but can get grating when watching on youtube. Survivor...I guess it's a mix of strategy, the elements, challenges, personalities, Probst, Tribal Council that makes for a good formula. I just gotta say I wish there were more moments like Fans vs Faves and "tell Erik to give you the Immunity Idol" then watching it happen. The only strategy we've really seen this season is Russell getting rid of people he found threatening to his position. Unless we cound the incredibly painful yet amusing Galu Boys plus Shamu sequence. Poody, you look retarded trying to be all badass and curse like a big boy. Chill out man! -SJ™ Agreed!
Apprentice Talker		#31	[-]
Posts: 10877 (10/28/09 10:31 PM) WRP Official Spokesperson Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I think its suffering. Some Survivors suffer minor pains or itching.
JLK Name		#32	[-]
Posts: 2137 (10/29/09 1:47 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	token lunatic wrote: Izzat Carrie Underwood?! Shakira baby
SuperJude		#33	[-]
Posts: 14819 (10/29/09 4:11 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I suppose the bigger question is what makes for a great season? They cast pretty much the same character types season after season after season, some with better quotes than others, but it's still pretty much the same gig, same challenges, same quotes from Probst. Editing has a LOT to do with how we perceive a season. Samoa is interesting because I've never seen so many people STILL on the fence about a season being good or bad this late in. Interesting because, due to the rain, they HAD to take a different approach in editing. We got to see misery, sleep deprivation and how somebody can become dehydrated while sitting in the middle of a rain storm. Too much time dedicated to Russell, but it was still interesting to watch and think about "would I push myself that hard?" Well no, I wouldn't. The trick, I believe, is to help enough around camp as to not be seen as lazy but to store your energy for the challenges. -SJ™
airshowpilot		#34	[-]
Posts: 1788 (10/29/09 3:03 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I like the realization or wake up moments. Like when the Survivors begin to tap dance and understand shit is about to happen unless they make a sudden change. Example: Marquesas was a ho-hum season up until the time when they were at the coconut cut-down challenge when Sean mentioned the boot order even though it was telegraphed over and over by Rob and Kathy. I tend to like personal struggles and achievement over strategy. For example: Steph. in Palau - that was an amazing and humanistic experience. She earned every penny. ..or very cool unlikely experiences: Sean and Pasquale reward feast.
Olmec Donald		#35	[-]
Posts: 919 (10/29/09 4:35 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	One of the reasons I really liked Guatemala was that there was ample suffehring, strategy, heated rivalries and some great characters. A great season needs all of the above, though strategy is more important than suffering. Someone earlier made a good point, who wants to see a bunch of people whine about the weather for half an episode?
Penthesilea		#36	[-]
Posts: 233 (10/29/09 4:42 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	SuperJude wrote: Every season somebody will tell you how "hard" it is but to the audience, it's hard to see. Of course, there are seasons like Outback (flood, starvation) where the suffering is palpable. The wind storm in Palau. Last ep of Samoa...wow, everybody's hands and feet looks so screwed up. How DO you sleep when you have no cover and it's raining for 48 hours? Curious what others thoughts are on these viewing experiences? Australia and Palau were 2 of the easiest and least harsh seasons for the contestants to be in too. You can just imagine how hard all the other seasons were. I think they only show the tough conditions if there isn't enough entertainment going on to show.
watchinuall		#37	[-]
Posts: 1240 (10/29/09 5:21 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Strategy and interpersonal interactions are what it's all about for me, and I love the surprise takedowns of arrogant and smug players who think they have it in the bag. I hate the suffering part, especially when someone really gets hurt, someone who would never have voluntarily otherwise left the show (such as Mike Skupin, for instance)--that's like seeing a great racehorse break a leg and have to be destroyed! Watching Survivor Africa and Australia, even though most of the people were so much fun to watch was excruciating at times, because of the extreme conditions and TRUE suffering. Seeing whiny bitches who had no business even GOING on Survivor in the first place is a pain. Quitters and whiners are a slap in the face to the die-hard players and the die-hard fans! Last Edited By: watchinuall 10/29/09 5:25 PM. Edited 1 times.
watchinuall		#38	[-]
Posts: 1241 (10/29/09 5:32 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	airshowpilot wrote: I like the realization or wake up moments. Like when the Survivors begin to tap dance and understand shit is about to happen unless they make a sudden change. Example: Marquesas was a ho-hum season up until the time when they were at the coconut cut-down challenge when Sean mentioned the boot order even though it was telegraphed over and over by Rob and Kathy. I tend to like personal struggles and achievement over strategy. For example: Steph. in Palau - that was an amazing and humanistic experience. She earned every penny. ..or very cool unlikely experiences: Sean and Pasquale reward feast. I think you pegged a big part of why I love Survivor: the personal struggles and achievement. I'm also big on the "good" guys/gals triumphing over the "bad" ones (although I guess it would be boring after awhile if only the Tom Westmans won, as much as I adored and admired him). And the unlikely and fascinating interaction between those two disparate men (Sean and Pas) was wonderful TV for me, as well!
Beefcake		#39	[-]
Posts: 4480 (10/29/09 5:40 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	To me, the point of starving/suffering is HOW it affects strategy. First, it affects who you vote out. In a season of deprivation, you can protect yourself by being a provider and working hard around camp, which I like because it allows players to have some more control over their fate by stepping up. If food is plentiful, it allows more people to coast UTR. Second, deprivation and physical hardships mean that people aren't always thinking clearly and aren't always mentally at their best, which also makes the game more challenging -- you have to think strategically while your belly is rumbling. What I DON'T like is the increased emphasis on physically painful and dangerous challenges -- the ones where players are forced to beat each other up. Those are the challenges in which people get hurt and sometimes medevaced, and I don't want to see that kind of suffering. I'd rather see challenge based on teamwork and strategy, so the best TEAM wins, not the one that gets lucky, has the biggest guy or the best swimmer, etc. Again, that allows bad players to coast if they happen to be on team with a challenge beast. (And it's really fun to watch the tribes of washed up jocks fail miserably at challenges because they refuse to work together).
watchinuall		#40	[-]
Posts: 1242 (10/29/09 5:46 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I agree--the increased use of barbaric challenges is troubling. I wonder why they're doing this--do they think they need to show this kind of thing to retain viewers? True, I don't want to watch them sit around playing word games every week, but watching people being required to beat the crap out of each other is not what I want to see, either.

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