S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)

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pushingjate		#2421	[-]
Posts: 6017 (11/05/09 9:54 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I love how people are saying Mick has a shot @ winning this. It just goes to show that most of you look @ "spoiler" information.
astroline		#2422	[-]
Posts: 2731 (11/05/09 9:57 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	BlakeB717 wrote: Blake, I've seen SO MANY POSTS since I've been here (and you too) since Fiji, where everyone talks about the premiere/merge episodes, picking the winner by the merge, and now you're dismissing all of it? Because it's convenient for your Mick selection? Alright, I'm going to say it because you're getting way too excited--watch it, astro. There are NO GUIDELINES or RULES stating that ANY participant in Edgic HAS to stand by ANY player after the merge. None whatsoever. It isn't a rule, it's something that most people back in the day did because they believed the winner's edit would be proved pre-merge and that the merge would tie up loose ends. I understand that you are excited because Mick got a UTR1. I understand that you think Russ H will win. I don't understand, however, why you feel the need to tell anyone else that they cannot pick Russ H because they didn't pick him last week. You aren't the boss, so please don't dictate what everyone else can or can't do. If Russ H wins there will not be a "Hail astro, master edgicer!" thread: many, like myself, will be glad to bring your past winner picks (Cassandra, Corinne, Liz) to remind you how successful you have been in the past. Edgic isn't about credit or track record: it's a hobby for most (at least for me) that enjoys analyzing. If you're not an analytical, in-depth person and rather came here for bragging rights, you've probably come to the wrong place. I know what you're trying to do, even though you aren't being blunt about it. I also do not plan on changing my winner pick, since Mick (according to what I believe and have interpretted) will be winning--so it isn't "convenient" at all. I am reminding you are there are no rules and you are entitled to nothing. Rant over, probably going to get an essay about how I'm a condesending piece of shit--what else is new? First off, don't tell me to 'watch it'. You want an essay about being condescending? Well, you got it, because you ARE condescending. Stop telling me what to fucking do. Sorry if I'm (as usual) the only one who wants to call people out on all the hypocritical bullshit around here. SO MANY OF YOU constantly harp about the importance of the premiere/merge episodes and picking a winner by a merge, but I guess this season it's not the trendy thing to do so I guess you guys won't do it. LOL! Guess I didn't get the memo. Gotta make room for the next MOR male doctor to win! I'm not expecting a "Hail astro, master Edgicer" thread. Not at all. I'm just saying I'm part of the 18% that didn't fall for another Marcus by the merge, since up until now, I had read so many times that we were supposed to have our final winner picks AT the merge. I make plenty of mistakes, I'm no master Edgicer and I have no problem admitting that. But I do learn from my mistakes. Hence why I eliminated Liz as soon as she got her INV (what was wrong with her Episode 1-3 edit?), and I will never pick a Cassie or Corinne again. You say Edgic doesn't matter about track record or credit, even though you just brought up 3 of my past winner picks against me? That's a track record, isn't it? Wow. There is a huge problem with Edgic in that so many of you do not want to think outside the box, yet you never classify what the current rules for thinking IN the box actually are. WHY is Mick your #1 pick? What can possibly justify his win? Russell H. has dominated the season, the strategy, he's talked to pretty much everyone in the game so we know there'd be some sort of familiar interaction between him & everyone if he's at the FTC. Same with Natalie, she's always being shown talking to new people and developing personal relationships and strategy. The merge episode came, the most crucial episode of the series (or so you guys have all been saying, up until now), and Mick gets a fluff confessional and a few sentences? Mick is like a combo of Marcus, Amanda and Stephen, ALL who have been majority Edgic picks.
BlakeB717		#2423	[-]
Posts: 2059 (11/05/09 10:00 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Oo, can you post the violin emoticon please? Thanks in advance!!
TheGupper		#2424	[-]
Posts: 1 (11/05/09 10:04 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Is Laura getting a negative a given? She argued with Shambo, and was backed up by Erik that Shambo is unreasonable. We were given a bunch of nonsensical reasons from Shambo, and a confessional from Laura that defended her side quite well. She was consistently edited as the anti-Russell, his biggest threat, and didn't say anything overtly negative to him. As Russell is arguably a season-long OTTN, Laura being his main opponent is a plus. To add to that, she worked with Natalie who is viewed as a positive force. She also was shown encouraging all the players during the course of the Immunity Challenge, and was shown smiling nearly all the time. I know that's a minute detail, but people notice little things like that. I'm not 100% convinced of her being a negative edit this episode.
YemaGrl1988		#2425	[-]
Posts: 8279 (11/05/09 10:04 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Hail astro, master Edgicer!!
Kitty Pryde1		#2426	[-]
Posts: 10864 (11/05/09 10:06 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Yeah, my BIGGEST problem with Mick's edit is not that he's boring, which he is, but the fact that he has basically been the narrator for Foa Foa, and he's been a doomsayer. Yes, Russell has narrated, but he's narrated his OWN moves. Mick has narrated the Foa Foas as "We cannot win. We're cursed. It's the leadership idol that's cursed, oh no it's not." Mick has basically been the leader who can't get things done. That has been his entire season. Including the fire-starting scene.
Us Kids Know		#2427	[-]
Posts: 11282 (11/05/09 10:08 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	YemaGrl1988 wrote: Hail astro, master Edgicer!!
The Purple Parrot		#2428	[-]
Posts: 11657 (11/05/09 10:12 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	You people are seriously gonna give Natalie a 2 tonight? O_O She was a solid 3. SOLID.
MasterDarkNinja		#2429	[-]
Posts: 2862 (11/05/09 10:13 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	astroline wrote: BlakeB717 wrote: astroline wrote: Blake, are you serious? Mick is not winning. His merge episode was UTR1 at best. The only two people less visible than him were Brett & Kelly, and that's pretty much by default. Haven't we all been saying that the premiere AND the merge are the 2 most important episodes for Edgic and winners? Let's take a look at post-ASS winner merge episodes. Chris -- CP4 Tom -- MOR4 Danni -- MORP2 Aras -- CP3 Yul -- CPP5 Earl -- CP4 Todd -- CPN4 Parvati -- CP4 Bob -- OTTP3 J.T. -- CPP5 / OTTP4 Mick -- UTR1? And yet Edgic has been harping so much the past few seasons that the premiere and merge episode are the 2 most important ones. There has also never been a 12-person merger. Mick was well hidden. Russ and Natalie edgically break more rules. To pick them isn't edgic, it's a gut feeling, which belongs in Brain/Heart/Gut or whatever that thread is called. Where do you get off telling me where I "belong"? And you're going to fall for another Marcus again, just like I've been saying for weeks and nobody wants to hear it because you guys can't think outside the box. Edgic is also not "who breaks the rules the LEAST". I'd argue that an UTR1 merge episode is just as bad as the faults of Russell/Natalie/Jaison. There has never been a post-ASS winner with such an awful merge edit. And who cares if it was 12 person merge? It was still the merge, regardless. Other post-ASS merges have had JUST as much going on, and plus, with Brett & Kelly being INV this entire season and this episode, it was essentially only 10 people in this episode anyway, and out of those 10, Mick would have been #10 in terms of edit. Blake, tell me then, after 8 episodes, what could Mick say at the final TC to make people vote for him over 2 of Russell, Natalie, Shambo and Jaison? What's his strategy? Who does he have personal relationships with? What scenes will the reunion show play back when we're highlighted with his win? Shambo -- "Hey guys, I just wanted to know, since you all betrayed me, why each of you deserves to win." Russell H. -- "I thought of everything that we needed to make happen." Natalie -- "And I executed it due to my well-placed personal relationships." Mick -- "I'm a young male doctor." Mick wins, 9-0-0! Actually Mick would be a Gary at this point if he goes home before the FTC, a decoy winner who fools us into the middle of the merge till he gets axed, and then leaves us with no viable edgic alternatives.
BlakeB717		#2430	[-]
Posts: 2060 (11/05/09 10:16 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Anyone else considering giving Foa Foa Ps? I'm rewatching now and I think Jaison, Mick, and Natalie were all P. RussH was more of the strategical spokesperson--I'm giving him neutral. Laura's the "bitch" -- N. Shambo.. the "bully" stuff and Erik SPV saying she wasn't really the wrong one, also trying to help the P FoaFoas... I'm kind of getting annoyed by Shambo but she may be P.
Green Coffee		#2431	[-]
Posts: 214 (11/05/09 10:16 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I think people might benefit from taking a deeeep breath! There's no clear answer yet so why get all worked up about how wrong each person is? Odd as it is, I think a legitimate argument can be made for lots of people at this point - it just depends on which aspect of edgic you emphasize the most. Then again, the "Edgic Betting Game" is in full swing - who can guess correctly? (and all else being equal, who can guess the earliest?) The stakes are high - "Neener Neener" ammo is very valuable. One thing that interests me with Russell is the "work backwards" idea I think OTH proposes. Given the final TC and who wins, how would they have edited it? If Russell somehow wins, how would they have edited him, logically? "The most evil bastard who ever played somehow outschemes everyone just like he said despite being such a dick" is about all they COULD have done with Russell. Otherwise he would be among the most UTR winners ever - it seems damn near every confessional (and we've seen lots) is strategery with a few hateful barbs thrown in. Besides, he's got all the doubt in the world built in - not only is he without numbers, but COME ON! How could this evil jerk win anyway!? Still, he may go home next week - who knows? Best of luck!
scepticA		#2432	[-]
Posts: 1755 (11/05/09 10:24 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Blake, I can see Jaison with a P. He was so bloody calm that his dislike of Erik seemed like a cool spring breeze. Natalie seemed to smile a few times, Mick was reasonably personable for a UTR1, and the only reason Russell wouldn't get an N is because he's like some ugly dog that barks and growls and snarls hatefully behind a chain link fence every time you walk by. That's just what the mofo does. But anyone else talks about others that way, and it's N city. Foa squared seemed reasonably decent and all (sans RH) but I think the only legitimate P was Jaison. The edit was crafted for us to sort of root for him, see his side, etc. And Green Coffee, just an FYI. Neener-neener rights are the official coin of the realm around here.
BlakeB717		#2433	[-]
Posts: 2061 (11/05/09 10:24 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Rough estimates right now: Jaison- MORP4? Mick- UTRP1? Natalie- CPP2? Russell- CP5? Brett- INV? UTR1? Dave- UTR1? John- MOR3? Kelly- UTR1? Laura- OTTN3? Monica- UTR2? MOR2? Shambo- OTTP4? MORP4? OTT4? MOR4? Pick: Mick
Oowatanite		#2434	[-]
Posts: 9235 (11/05/09 10:25 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	GC : If Russhole somehow wins, they would not edit him : a) being so OTTNN in the premiere episode b) build the ENTIRE season around him with zillions of visibility and zillions of repetitive confessionals bragging how awesome he is and how dumb everyone else is c) screwing with edited scenes so obviously in order to make him appear to be much smarter and much more strategic than he actually is d) hyping him so much as "the most evil villain EVER in Survivor history", when all we get is burning socks, dumping canteens and garden-variety namecalling and bragging in confessionals - he's not even the most evil villain this season since Benhole wrapped up that title in just three episodes
BlakeB717		#2435	[-]
Posts: 2062 (11/05/09 10:26 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	scepticA wrote: Blake, I can see Jaison with a P. He was so bloody calm that his dislike of Erik seemed like a cool spring breeze. Natalie seemed to smile a few times, Mick was reasonably personable for a UTR1, and the only reason Russell wouldn't get an N is because he's like some ugly dog that barks and growls and snarls hatefully behind a chain link fence every time you walk by. That's just what the mofo does. But anyone else talks about others that way, and it's N city. Foa squared seemed reasonably decent and all (sans RH) but I think the only legitimate P was Jaison. The edit was crafted for us to sort of root for him, see his side, etc. And Green Coffee, just an FYI. Neener-neener rights are the official coin of the realm around here. Well as I rewatch now it all seems to be about how FoaFoa keeps getting kicked, kind of like Aitu. Didn't we throw out a ton of association Ps around the merge for all 4? I didn't see it at all at first, but now that I'm watching, you can tell the editors want you to be like Yes! Yes! Come on! That, in my eyes, is P.
cookie		#2436	[-]
Posts: 319 (11/05/09 10:35 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	remember it's editing that is telling a whole story. look at the strongest COmponents. Start with the ending and work backwards to the beginning that wiLL givE the Editors the most baNg for their buck. She's a major long shot based on those first three episodes, but I have to say the strongest manipuLation sO far has been the Russell playing the "dumb girls." V Wasn't hE playing all of them and most likely confessed to playing all of them -oR, well, gloating? The cop woman (don't remember her name- oh wait, Betsy!) had the inserted confessional where she tells Natalie to watch out for Russell. And then we have several instances of Russell telling us Natalie is his puppet- underlining this theme to the viewer. I think the strongest arc (although not the strongest character crafting) has been the set-up of Russell to be trumped by one of the original "dumb girls." Natalie is my long shot. And of course, Jaison has always had legs, as had Russell. Have fun, guys.
Mega64		#2437	[-]
Posts: 11737 (11/05/09 10:38 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	I never really bought Mick as a winner's edit even before this episode. He just seems to miss the depth and constant attention given to winners like Aras, Yul, and Earl. We don't actually know anything about him other than he's the leader, and they didn't actually focus on him being the leader that much. Russell S and hell, even fucking Shambo got a bigger focus on being a leader than Mick, who was a non-entity even in his tribe. Pretty much everyone in Foa Foa got more focus and attention than Mick. He's a narrator, and probably goes in the next several weeks. A winner's story starts from the very beginning. Sure, it may not have anything to talk about hen, but at least we get to know them and learn about them a bit. So what characters have we learned about in the first episode or two? Russell, Jaison, and Shambo. The others didn't really get going until later, and there's still a few whose stories haven't even started. So yeah, I think the winner's one of those three. Which one? Jaison and Shambo look kinda weak, and while Russell looks like he's run into trouble, this is the time for that textbook doubt that edgicers love in their winners. Then again, Jaison's also had his doubt with his quitting, and he's had a decent set-up pre-merge and could be a force the rest of the game. Shambo, well, she's an idiot, but her edit's making her to be an underdog whose doubt was manufactured by cramming down our throats about how much she hates Galu and loves Foa Foa, so as far as I'm concerned she's still viable. All had solid premiere episodes, and I think even Shambo was decent in the merge episode, as stupid as she is. People are supposed to root for her plucky underdog spirit, not her nonexistent strategy that gives the editors nothing viable to work with. Yeah, underdog edit isn't a winner's edit, but I doubt her edit would change whether she won or not, so I'm not going to eliminate her, though she's a distant third. Russell's insanely manufactured, but more as a character than a winner, while Jaison seems to have a good storyline set up for him, so I'll favor his edit over Russell. Jaison Russell Shambo That sounds about right. The rest are dead.
Green Coffee		#2438	[-]
Posts: 215 (11/05/09 10:41 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	If Russhole somehow wins, they would not edit him : a) being so OTTNN in the premiere episode Why not? If what the have to work with is "Constantly hateful and self-praising evil mastermind who never stops strategizing" you have to make the story cohesive. You can't force neutral or P when basically ALL he gives is constant N. b) build the ENTIRE season around him with zillions of visibility and zillions of repetitive confessionals bragging how awesome he is and how dumb everyone else is If he gives you gold, he gives you gold. They may have been hesitant to flush his confessionals for the sake of keeping him hidden. c) screwing with edited scenes so obviously in order to make him appear to be much smarter and much more strategic than he actually is This implies that we have knowledge about the original source (ie: ALL behavior and happenings of the game). How do we KNOW anything about his actual level of strategy or knowledge? All we have is the edit to go off of. d) hyping him so much as "the most evil villain EVER in Survivor history", when all we get is burning socks, dumping canteens and garden-variety namecalling and bragging in confessionals - he's not even the most evil villain this season since Benhole wrapped up that title in just three episodes Fair enough, I can see this one to some degree. Still, it's worth consideration, I think. Then again, NONE of the players left have perfect edits - no one really fits a "Type A" and I'm not so sure about anyone being "Type B" (although this season would be a good candidate for it). Could this be the "Type C" edit I originally thought was totally impossible? They couldn't craft Russel into a typical winner, they couldn't make him generally likable..... so they had to do something else. Either way, I think it's a total crapshoot. Someone's gotta be right but at this point some of that is going to just be picking the right Edgic emphasis - which one is it?
BlakeB717		#2439	[-]
Posts: 2064 (11/05/09 10:44 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	Jaison to Natalie: I'll be OK with leaving as long as I know that that guy left before me. Eek, not very winnery.
Mega64		#2440	[-]
Posts: 11739 (11/05/09 10:48 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts Message Connection Block Invite	BlakeB717 wrote: Jaison to Natalie: I'll be OK with leaving as long as I know that that guy left before me. Eek, not very winnery. Pretty sure a lot of edgicers said the same thing about Parvati's "pee water" quote. Some things can be explained away, and some are just character flaws that stick. They certainly didn't sugercoat Jenna's edit, Chris looked like an idiot after blowing the first challenge, and many other winners have had some N moments. I think it's more important to look for elements that prove a character is winner material than for evidence to prove a winner is not, at least after you eliminate the obvious fodder due to INV's and such.

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S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)

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