Out of the all the challenge whores...

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ilovekelly752		#21	[-]
Posts: 254 (11/05/09 9:05 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Thailandsurvivor wrote: Someone called Ozzy a good strategist in Cook Islands? A man with one of the worst social games ever has a great one? I don't see how anyone can say he didn't play a good social game. He got along with Nate, Parvati, Jonathan, and Adam better than any of his allies after the merge. I know I'm not being biased with this opinion because I can't stand him. He put himself in a position where, more often than not, people were coming to him to try to go against Yul. That way he had an omniscient view of whose side was better, and what would be the best way for him to win. Since Yul is an even better strategist, he trumped that strategy of Ozzy's by one vote, Adam's.
Thailandsurvivor		#22	[-]
Posts: 8564 (11/05/09 9:09 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	You don't see how a man that would rather gather coconuts than talk to people has a poor social game? People in Cook Islands went to Ozzy because Yul was obviously in control, and Ozzy was obviously on the outside. That's like saying Denise had a great social game because Erik and PG tried to get her vote. And the term "strategist" can not even be used to describe Yul. The HII won Cook Islands.
ilovekelly752		#23	[-]
Posts: 257 (11/05/09 9:26 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Thailandsurvivor wrote: You don't see how a man that would rather gather coconuts than talk to people has a poor social game? People in Cook Islands went to Ozzy because Yul was obviously in control, and Ozzy was obviously on the outside. That's like saying Denise had a great social game because Erik and PG tried to get her vote. And the term "strategist" can not even be used to describe Yul. The HII won Cook Islands. I think the difference between Ozzy and Denise is that Ozzy went around to the other players and talked to them. Gathering coconuts is also smart because people saw him as a provider and they knew that they needed him. You could argue that all of that stuff is just him, and he wasn't thinking strategically with any of it, but the way I view it, it's a big part of what got him to the end, besides just winning challenges.
Thailandsurvivor		#24	[-]
Posts: 8570 (11/05/09 9:26 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Winning challenges is the only thing that got Ozzy to the end. No one wanted him around, even pre mutiny.
ilovekelly752		#25	[-]
Posts: 258 (11/05/09 9:35 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Thailandsurvivor wrote: Winning challenges is the only thing that got Ozzy to the end. No one wanted him around, even pre mutiny. Then he would've been voted out a long time before that, and it's the same case in Micronesia. The fact that he was good in challenges was what got him out there.
sddorme.idolnoise		#26	[-]
Posts: 296 (11/05/09 9:45 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Rob C. Parvati
Thailandsurvivor		#27	[-]
Posts: 8572 (11/05/09 9:47 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	In Micronesia, I hated Ozzy even more, but he brought at least some game. Still, Ozzy was not a challenge whore in Micronesia, and his efforts there have no relation to his lack of game in Cook Islands. Yes, JP was in the majority alliance on his original tribe. He also made the moronic decision to throw a challenge. Then, he didn't gather the votes after the swap, and he found himself in the minority. While Sundra worked her way into the group, Ozzy's only case to stay was that he was a good competitor in challenges. He was going to leave if Aitu lost again after Flicka left. He was going to leave if Aitu lost post mutiny. He was going to leave if he lost any immunity challenge after Jonathan (or maybe even Candice) left.
sddorme.idolnoise	OZZY SUCKS!	#28	[-]
Posts: 297 (11/05/09 9:50 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Ozzy sucked as a social and strategic player. He sucked as a Survivor. The only Survivor-related thing he was good at was challenges. He was an arrogant ass who didn't even deserve to be in the final 3, not even the jury. He was a terrible strategist and arrogant ass in Cook Islands and a bigger one in Micronesia
ilovekelly752		#29	[-]
Posts: 262 (11/05/09 10:05 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Out of all the tribal councils he attended, he was immune in only half of them, but he survived all of them. If he sucked as a social and strategic player, he would've been out in one of the five tribal councils where he was vulnerable. Most of the times where he was immune, he wasn't in a position where he was going home anyway. Two of the five times were when Aitu needed him as a number, so he wouldn't have gone then, and everybody agreed to make it a tie in the final four, so if Ozzy would've won the fire challenge (and he was good at that, and the two girls couldn't do it) he would've been safe there too. The only times where he could've gone home if he didn't win immunity were in the top 5 and 6, and the reason they considerd getting him out was because of his ability in the challenges.
ilovekelly752		#30	[-]
Posts: 263 (11/05/09 10:07 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	sddorme wrote: Rob C. Parvati Yes, they were amazing strategists, but they weren't really amazing in the challenges.
Thailandsurvivor		#31	[-]
Posts: 8575 (11/05/09 10:16 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	ilovekelly752 wrote: Out of all the tribal councils he attended, he was immune in only half of them, but he survived all of them. If he sucked as a social and strategic player, he would've been out in one of the five tribal councils where he was vulnerable. Most of the times where he was immune, he wasn't in a position where he was going home anyway. Two of the five times were when Aitu needed him as a number, so he wouldn't have gone then, and everybody agreed to make it a tie in the final four, so if Ozzy would've won the fire challenge (and he was good at that, and the two girls couldn't do it) he would've been safe there too. The only times where he could've gone home if he didn't win immunity were in the top 5 and 6, and the reason they considerd getting him out was because of his ability in the challenges. Wow. You don't think Ozzy would have left had he lost the final 4 IC? Delusional much?
PrettyGoodYear1988		#32	[-]
Posts: 2876 (11/05/09 10:18 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	ilovekelly752 wrote: Out of all the tribal councils he attended, he was immune in only half of them, but he survived all of them. If he sucked as a social and strategic player, he would've been out in one of the five tribal councils where he was vulnerable. Most of the times where he was immune, he wasn't in a position where he was going home anyway. Two of the five times were when Aitu needed him as a number, so he wouldn't have gone then, and everybody agreed to make it a tie in the final four, so if Ozzy would've won the fire challenge (and he was good at that, and the two girls couldn't do it) he would've been safe there too. The only times where he could've gone home if he didn't win immunity were in the top 5 and 6, and the reason they considerd getting him out was because of his ability in the challenges. A strong guy like Ozzy was never going to be a pre-merge boot, especially since Aitu and Raro were going tit for tat with Immunity wins before the mutiny, so that doesn't really say anything about his social game. Yes, Aitu needed him for the first two post-merge rounds, but if he hadn't kept winning Immunity after that, his butt was gone. End of story. Also, Ozzy would have so been gone had he lost the F4 Immunity (which he almost did, considering Sundra's amazing performance).
Thailandsurvivor		#33	[-]
Posts: 8577 (02/09/80 2:57 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	No. They didn't. They agreed after Sundra's performance.
ilovekelly752		#34	[-]
Posts: 264 (02/09/83 2:57 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Thailandsurvivor wrote: ilovekelly752 wrote: Out of all the tribal councils he attended, he was immune in only half of them, but he survived all of them. If he sucked as a social and strategic player, he would've been out in one of the five tribal councils where he was vulnerable. Most of the times where he was immune, he wasn't in a position where he was going home anyway. Two of the five times were when Aitu needed him as a number, so he wouldn't have gone then, and everybody agreed to make it a tie in the final four, so if Ozzy would've won the fire challenge (and he was good at that, and the two girls couldn't do it) he would've been safe there too. The only times where he could've gone home if he didn't win immunity were in the top 5 and 6, and the reason they considerd getting him out was because of his ability in the challenges. Wow. You don't think Ozzy would have left had he lost the final 4 IC? Delusional much? They all agreed before he even won to make it a tie. I don't believe coming from that group of people that they would've gone against that.
ilovekelly752		#35	[-]
Posts: 265 (11/05/09 10:35 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	PrettyGoodYear1988 wrote: ilovekelly752 wrote: Out of all the tribal councils he attended, he was immune in only half of them, but he survived all of them. If he sucked as a social and strategic player, he would've been out in one of the five tribal councils where he was vulnerable. Most of the times where he was immune, he wasn't in a position where he was going home anyway. Two of the five times were when Aitu needed him as a number, so he wouldn't have gone then, and everybody agreed to make it a tie in the final four, so if Ozzy would've won the fire challenge (and he was good at that, and the two girls couldn't do it) he would've been safe there too. The only times where he could've gone home if he didn't win immunity were in the top 5 and 6, and the reason they considerd getting him out was because of his ability in the challenges. A strong guy like Ozzy was never going to be a pre-merge boot, especially since Aitu and Raro were going tit for tat with Immunity wins before the mutiny, so that doesn't really say anything about his social game. Yes, Aitu needed him for the first two post-merge rounds, but if he hadn't kept winning Immunity after that, his butt was gone. End of story. Also, Ozzy would have so been gone had he lost the F4 Immunity (which he almost did, considering Sundra's amazing performance). I really think he only needed immunity twice, and that was only because he was so good at it before then. If he was decent at challenges the whole time, and didn't win a single individual one, he would've had the same exact fate, imo.
Thailandsurvivor		#36	[-]
Posts: 8578 (11/05/09 10:36 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Thailandsurvivor wrote: No. They didn't. They agreed after Sundra's performance. Weird. It posted before what it was responding to. Either way, I'm done. 99% sure I'm right, but I'm not rewatching CI to check my facts.
ilovekelly752		#37	[-]
Posts: 266 (11/05/09 10:51 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Thailandsurvivor wrote: Thailandsurvivor wrote: No. They didn't. They agreed after Sundra's performance. Weird. It posted before what it was responding to. Either way, I'm done. 99% sure I'm right, but I'm not rewatching CI to check my facts. lol, that is wierd
ilovekelly752		#38	[-]
Posts: 267 (11/05/09 10:56 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Thailandsurvivor wrote: Thailandsurvivor wrote: No. They didn't. They agreed after Sundra's performance. Weird. It posted before what it was responding to. Either way, I'm done. 99% sure I'm right, but I'm not rewatching CI to check my facts. Okay, I just checked it. You're right, but it was Ozzy's idea, so maybe he would've come up with that to save himself if he didn't win. Last Edited By: ilovekelly752 11/05/09 11:23 PM. Edited 1 times.
Cyberball2072		#39	[-]
Posts: 547 (11/05/09 11:05 PM) I love ShiiAnn Reply Quote More Recent Posts	The truth is, from a strategic standpoint a lot of times a strategic "mastermind" success is less due to his own strategic oversight as it was to his opponents lack of it. Too often clueless, hapless, stupid players (like Shii Ann) are there that allow real players to manipulate, but it is less their own talent and more the lack of it on the opposition side.
ilovekelly752		#40	[-]
Posts: 269 (11/05/09 11:21 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Cyberball2072 wrote: The truth is, from a strategic standpoint a lot of times a strategic "mastermind" success is less due to his own strategic oversight as it was to his opponents lack of it. Too often clueless, hapless, stupid players (like Shii Ann) are there that allow real players to manipulate, but it is less their own talent and more the lack of it on the opposition side. I think that's the case of winners like Brian and Richard, but I think in some cases, (like Todd, Parvati, and Rob) the mastermind can convince good players that the deals they want to make with them are really in their own best interest, like Todd convincing Jean-Robert that it was in Todd's best interest to go to the final three with Jean-Robert, Parvati convincing Natalie and Alexis that she needed them to get to the final four, or Rob M. convincing Rob C. that they both needed each other to go to the final three. In reality, none of them intended to go that far with those players, and all of those players were thinking strategically. I think if you can really convince people that you're on their side, you can get them to do what you want, whether they're smart or not.

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Out of the all the challenge whores...