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CBRetriever |
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wasn't that after the early christians gave up truly being peaceniks?
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MakePaulaCry |
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Just thought I'd read to some of you fellow OT'ers some of my favorite KORANIC PASSAGES! :D
Gather around by the fire children! Oh we'll have ever so much fun! :D Here are my absolute favs! [4.34] Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great. [5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement. [2.39] And (as to) those who disbelieve in and reject My communications, they are the inmates of the fire, in it they shall abide. [3.4] Surely they who disbelieve in the communications of Allah they shall have a severe chastisement; and Allah is Mighty, the Lord of retribution. [5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people. [2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers. [4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper. [4.15] And as for those who are guilty of an indecency from among your women, call to witnesses against them four(witnesses) from among you; then if they bear witness confine them to the houses until death takes them away or Allah opens some way for them. (* Many women to this very day are executed for being raped because they could not provide four male witnesses to prove a rape existed) There's plenty more but I figured these were revolting enough for a while. :) SUCH A LOVELY RELIGION. And no, none of this is was changed, this is the actual Koran. |
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Licorice |
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CBRetriever wrote:From what I understand, the persecution of Christians was official policy right up to the reign of Constantine, who became a Christian himself and then issued the Edict of Milan in 313, which made Christianity legal, though not official. Then in 380, Theodosius made Christianity the official religion and began persecuting everyone who wasn't! |
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CBRetriever |
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But was that after the christian religion changed from being a turn the other cheek religion (like the Amish) to one that was militant? Or did Constantine
embracing christianity change it to a more militant faith?
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kutabeach |
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Citizen Postal wrote:CP, you are correct. The first 12 or so years when Mohammad proclaimed to be a prophet, he was persecuted. Not many followers. Kicked around from town to town. No one believed him, expect for some relatives and a few others. Mohammad preached a lot of "let's all be friends" stuff. "No compulsion in religion" comes from this time. Then, the small group of muslims started attacking caravans in the desert. murdering people. raping women. Mohammad started ordering assassinations. The muslims started to become wealthy and powerful. Lots of beheadings. This attracted many followers, who wanted in on the spoils of war. Now that Mohammad had power, he started persecuting others. Taking over cities and towns. "Kill the unbelievers" comes from this time, and since it was later, these verses abrogate earlier koranic verses of peacefulness. Mo fucked everything in sight. nine year old girls, when he was 57. nice. (get ready for the "every culture did that back then" excuse in 3..2..1...) But CP, you are correct. When Mohammad preached kum-bay-ya he was persecuted. When he became a warlord and killed at will, he did the persecution. |
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CBRetriever |
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and christians, in their early incursions didn't convert by the sword as well?
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Licorice |
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I'm no expert, but I don't think Christians were all that militant before it became the official religion of Rome. They weren't all laying their heads on the chopping block to be martyred, but it's not like they put up an organized fight against the Romans. I think that is often the case with any mass movement, the Christians just wore the Romans down. |
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Pahrump Mania |
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I don't see the upside to allowing Muslims to immigrate to the US. What do they add to our country that we would see as positive?
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Ogakorbutt |
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Well, they make a pretty good shawama.
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Mister Yuck |
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Pahrump Mania wrote: nomii (pun intended) |
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CBRetriever |
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most of the newly fledged petroleum engineers and geophysicists are either muslim or chinese - we seem to be declining in our ability to produce them (or else
those program are just too much work for most americans)
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B DeBrun |
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Pahrump Mania wrote:
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Buggles73 |
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I worked with a Pakistani muslim a few years ago and every time he took a piss he would bring in a little cup of water to wash his dick afterwards. Then he
would wash his hands all the way up to his elbows, because his muslim hands had touched his dirty little pecker. Say what you will about muslims but
they've probably got the cleanest genitalia of ALL religions worldwide
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CBRetriever |
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and they won't use the hand they eat with or shake hands with to wipe themselves either
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Buggles73 |
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I will say this about him: He was Shia which seems like a more peaceful sect? He always said that the violence and muslim extremism was not true islam.
Although they have some strict rules and customs which seem extreme to us, i do agree that the screm, yell and blow shit up muslims are not a true reflection
of islam as a whole.
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harshaw66 |
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It's always amusing to hear christian apologists talk about the NT like it's the kinder, gentler portion of the bible. In fact, the NT is where we are
introduced to the beautiful concept of torturing people by fire for all of eternity for the mere act of not believing in or "loving" their creator.
Nice.
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TobaccoRhoda |
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I will never understand why the OT religion haters are so quick to defend any religion which is not christian. Shouldn't you be equal opportunity haters?
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ObservingEgo |
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Here's the crux of the entire issue ... the world's most glorious art is a product of THE church. Top that, Evangelicals, Protestants, Judaics, Hindus, Islamics, Bantus and all other mythological belief systems. |
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CBRetriever |
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some of us are not haters - and if someone made a broadbrush statement about christianity, like all christians hate homosexuals, I'd be just as quick to
point out their error
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nomii |
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yea - we already have templates for peaceful chill communities who are at the same time islamically religious - albania, turkey, indonesia and most brown
people in the US. the middle east has their issues, but in time they'll get to the same point also.
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