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token lunatic |
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In terms of strategy, John >>>>>>>>Dave(but not in the sexy bubble tub action)
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TheWizard |
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token lunatic wrote: I don't know. The only strategic things we've seen from Dave have been pretty dead on. He was surprised and dismayed that the vote had turned away from a Foa Foa "turkey shoot." He's been disciplined around camp, and had the sense in his dispute with the Predator to cool down and offer a handshake. He seems to have made a lot of friends without being too manipulative. Granted we haven't seen much from him, but I think a couple of positive things vastly outweigh John's strategic fuckup. |
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SPunKeeMonKee |
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Stephen, I think she means rocket scientist Dave from Survivor Amazon.
I agree with you though, Danger Dave > John (in terms of strategy). As long as he can keep his massive ego in check |
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TheWizard |
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SPunKeeMonKee wrote:Ahhhh...my bad. I need to read up. |
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smokiedokie |
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I think Danger Dave >>>>> John also, because John thinks he should only make big huge game-changing moves, which is usually a huge mistake. For
the most part you're only allowed one. Dave's staying chill, which is the best move to make when you've got the numbers.
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cateiz |
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sddorme wrote: X He'll end up being his own worst enemy. |
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Beefcake |
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I think John was smart to want to break up Laura and Monica. Galu isn't a tribe; it's 3 women in a tight alliance, 4 men is an alliance (how tight it
is and who is allied with whom isn't clear), plus Shambo. So taking out Laura or Monica isn't a bad idea, though I agree that it would probably be
smarter to take our 2 or 3 Foa Foans first.
My impression of John and Erik is that John perceived himself as the strategist calling the shots and using Erik to execute the strategy, thus making Erik look like the bad guy to everyone who gets booted. So Erik getting the blame for organizing the Monica boot was smart on John's part -- Erik was his shield -- it just wasn't supposed to happen so soon. I'm not sure whether Dave is any master strategist or just playing mechanically. He's a challenge threat, so his plan may be just to make it as far as possible and then go on a challenge run. John has to know that long-term, he's probably no competition for Erik, Dave and Brett in late game challenges, so he can't wait too long to take out some of the other men. If he goes along with a Pagonging, he's playing for 4th place. So I can't blame him for wanting to come up with some other alliances, like the one with Russell. |
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Chinchilla23 |
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I love the relaxed way Danger Dave is currently playing the game. He has positioned himself right in the middle of the Galu tribe where he can work with the
remaining men and shambo or align with the women who seem to like him more than either Brett or John. Dave was right to question Erik and John for wanting to
get rid of Monica so soon, and he did not hesitate to calmly stab Erik in the back to keep Galu in a position to pagong Foa foa.
Dave's best move going forward will be to keep Galu together and get to final 7, promising both alliances of three that he is with them. Right now Dave should push to get rid of Natalie/Russell/Mick/Jaison in that order so when it gets to final 8 Jaison will just role over and die. When your tribe is in a position of power such as Galu the biggest threats are the social players who can manipulate, so Natalie is a major threat that needs to go next. Then once it gets to final 7 Laura, Monica and Kelly are out in that order. At final four knock out John and you've made final three with Brett and Shambo. Brett rode your coattails and Shambo is a nut no one likes or respects. Easy win at final tribal. Dave is actually in such a good spot right now he'd have to be a brutal player to fuck it up. So I'm guessing when it's all said and done he will be remembered as a brutal player. |
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Mister Plum |
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I don't like when he said "they're like playing Junior varsity Survivor" when he's the one who's scrambling things up that won't
benefit himself.
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BortBort |
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I agree with what most of you have already said. Its almost like its a problem to win too much not only because you dont get a chance to strategise, but also
because you go into the tribe with too many numbers. There are too many options available and everyone is just itching to jump ship. If they leave it too late,
they may have missed out or someone else may have jumped ship.
Honestly, I think if they had of gone into merge with one extra member instead of four, the first couple of votes would have without a doubt been Foa Foans (unless the HII gets in the way, but given how stupid Russhole has been Galu could have manuevered around that). With four extra votes, it is easier to rationalise taking out one of your own, as Kelly I think said "even if we take out Eric we still have a three man advantage". I like the fact that they are actaully attempting to strategise and jump ship when they think they may be on the bottom of the totem pole (unlike sooo many before them), but agree it was probably not the right time to do it. It certainly wasnt the right way to do it. |
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Baby VOX |
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Once Galu crumbles and you know they will I want Jeff to ask John what it feels like to come up with the plan ever that destroyed them all.
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SuperJude |
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Mister Plum wrote: That was the quote which finally got my attention. I thought "good quote from bad player?" Now, it's too early to tell of course and I by no means consider "keeping Galu together" the right strategy vs breaking them up and allying with the Foa Foa's. The only time this becomes a retard move is if you let 4 Foa Foa's into the F9. That, boys and girls, would be stupidity. This is where I wonder what John's strategy is. I'd have thought, for certain, that you would dump a Foa Foa and put FEAR into them, then use them as a 3 person voting block. John has thus far shown a pattern of wanting to ally with those who don't have the numbers, such as Shamu and the Foa Foa's. The way he does it is like...does he think he's really that guy or is this some persona he's feeling out? Stephen...erm...I mean Fishfuck - I thought about the Tyson comparison but that isn't it. Tyson, while sharing the same wannabe strategist persona, also played to the cameras a whole lot, creating this sarcastic, mean guy persona where John seems to lack that flair. I can't tell if it's his strategy, or if it's that he looks like Bobby Jesus with a tan. -SJ™ |
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Beefcake |
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It's easy to sit back and say the "smart" thing to do is Pagong the FoaFoans, but the problem for us is that we know so little about Galu's
tribe dynamics.
John (and the other men) have to know that Laura has Monica and Kelly wrapped around her fingers and that voting bloc has to be a huge concern. Remember when Russell S chose the blankets over the tarp? His rationale was that he had to keep the women happy. So even back then, there was fear (or at least a need to appease) Laura/Monica/Kelly. So if I were John at the merge, my biggest fear would be an alliance between the 4 FoaFoans and the 3 Galu grrrls, who could then pick off the Galu men. So an alliance with Russell, the presumed leader of Foa Foa, would make sense for John. And the first step in that alliance would be to take out Laura (with Monica as the fallback when Laura won immunity). I think that a "keep Galu together" strategy works in the short-term for John, but not the long-term. He's playing for 4th place if he just sticks to a Galu men alliance (and Brett seems to be pretty friendly with the girls, so how big and tight was that alliance anyways?) That's probably what he meant by "junior varsity Survivor". And whoever (Stephen?) made the comment about tribes that haven't been to TC wanting to strategize makes a lot of sense. Generally, the early boots in any tribe are not particularly strategic -- they vote out the people they don't like. Laura comes across as such a bitch during the few seconds we see her on TV, can you imagine what it's like to be around her 24/7? I'd just want her away from me!!!! So I guess my answer to SJ's original question is that I think John certainly thinks of himself as a strategic player. But since his tribe has only had one TC, there hasn't been much strategy to execute. So when the merge came, it's logical for him to try and form some kind of connection with the FoaFoans. He already knows he can't trust/work with the Galu Girls. I think he was trying to position himself as a swing player, bringing together FoaFoa, Shambo and the Galu men. And the first thing you want to do if you're trying to control votes is to eliminate your competition, hence Laura becomes his first target. |
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JLK Name |
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I really think John's strategy is really stupid! he underestimates Shambo, she wants Monica out so it will weaken Laura... how stupid is that! Laura
won't be depressed and weak when Monica gets voted out. He doesn't want the people from Foa Foa to be out first.
John is stupid. |
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SuperJude |
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Here is the biggest thing: you stick with your tribe after merge not because of numbers, though that's part of it, but because you have a better read on
people. You are better able to predict their actions based on what you've seen over the course of 3 weeks vs. the unknown factor of allying with people you
don't really know.
"Pull the idol from Russell, vote out Jaison" was a much better plan than considering it wouldn't offend anybody on the former Galu. Getting Monica took tact which Erik lacked. I wonder had it been John spreading the word if it would have happened or would he have gone home instead? Also, did he know Erik had the Idol? -SJ™ |
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token lunatic |
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Chinchilla23 wrote: |
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Mister Plum |
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SuperJude wrote:All your arguments in this thread are exactly what I feel from John and I don't think that John knows that Erik has the idol. |
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SuperJude |
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So the shot of John fake sleeping in the hammock and noticing Erik going through the tree was misdirection then?
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Mister Plum |
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I thought it wasn't fake sleeping. I thought that he's really asleep. He woke up then looked around, then he slept again. I dunno. That's my
interpretation of that scene.
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SuperJude |
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Mister Plum wrote:Yeah I probably read too much into it, have to go back and check this out when I get home since it will now fuck with me if I don't. -SJ™ |
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