Erinnloveee wrote:UTR? 2?
Rob C: UTR2
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cantthinkofaname |
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Erinnloveee wrote:UTR? 2? |
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Pulau Tiga |
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Chapera
Alicia - OTTN3 She whines and bitches, and her tribe mates comment on how much she whines and bitches. She's certainly negative because the one scene she had to focus on her presented her in an argumentative negative light. She had no positive attitude to balance it out (besides some bland, neutral opening narration) and confirmation from other players that she was acting in a negative manner (as if seemingly unjustified yelling and arguing about sleeping arrangements wasn't enough to tell us that). We don't get into her head, we just hear the expletives that emerge from it. It's not possible to simplify and caricaturize (I know, it's not a word) her any more than she is. I think the feeling of MOR stems from a fairly condensed and limited visibility, but it's not an accurate representation of her portrayal. Her character is simplified as bitchy, with no depth, and she's stretched into a gross caricature because she's shown to be so absurd. We have no understanding of where she's coming from and a complete simplification of where she stands on her tribe. As for visibility, I think it's ridiculous to say Alicia left as much of (or more of) an impact in this episode as Rupert or Richard (or even JLew!). It never made sense to me to follow the visibility charts so blindly, because visibility is as subjective and rooted in context as any other element of a character's rating. Alicia had a total of one scene that focused on her. She talked a lot in that scene and she's pretty loud and obnoxious in general so you're always going to hear background statements from her in Chapera scenes. But she wasn't a highly visible character. We note that we're not supposed to like her, but she's not given the attention needed to promote her as having a 4 in visibility. Amber - UTR1 She had possibly the most mundane and fleeting confessional of the whole episode, which pushes her out of INV (and maintains the notion that the editors make sure to introduce their winner in some way in every premiere). But standing around in the background of the most visible tribe isn't enough to bump up her visibility any more, I feel. Any time she was on camera, the attention was on Rob, not her. The alliance proposal centered on Rob, with no insight from Amber whatsoever. I know it's tempting to give her a 2 because we know she wins. But you have to remember Danni. Like it or not, sometimes the winner is just so inconsequential, boring, and uninteresting that the editors give them the minimum possible amount of screen time in the first episode. They might have a couple of standards when it comes to editing a winner, but their primary motivation in the opening of any season is to compel viewers and draw in audiences. Showing Amber wouldn't have done that, so they did it as little as possible. Rob C - MOR3 Rob had a lot of narration scattered throughout the episode, serving as a constant reminder he's present but never developing his character too much. A MOR fits his narrative edit (especially when he tackles such a wide variety of topics and includes a small bit of personal analysis on each subject), and the 3 fits the duration of his screen time. Rob comments on a hell of a lot, and while it doesn't leave much of an impression, it definitely shows us he's there and he's participating. Rob M - CPN5 Rob's probably the biggest character of the episode, and I don't think anyone argues with the visibility or tone. He bashes players and shows insensitivity to other people, and he gets more attention than any other Survivor in the premiere. But it's important to note that his negativity is not simplified. We get into Rob's head more than anyone else's. We know what he's thinking and where he's coming from. He analyzes the game, talks strategy, and explains where things stand. It's the definition of Complex Personality. You can be villainous and nasty and still be a thinker and a schemer and have all your complex ideas presented to the camera. Rob's the epitome of one of those types of characters, and it's shown very well in this episode. Sue - OTTN4 I think people are going to take issue with the visibility and I doubt I'll win this debate, but I do believe Sue deserves a rating of 4 for this episode. She had multiple scenes all about her. She was involved in most of Chapera's moments, and for a tribe that dominates the airtime, that's important. She bitches about the shelter being built and suggests she's too abrasive to ever last in the game. She refuses to help make fire (life in Survivor) because she doesn't want to waste her time. She drinks well water and justifies her actions by explaining she's tough enough to handle it. She doesn't want to hear her tribe's condemnation of her putting her own health at risk. And even during tree mail, she refuses to take part in the group activity and draws attention to herself by staying back in the shelter and requesting it's read aloud to her from a distance. The woman hogs camera time like crazy, and despite the fact that she plays no important part in any of the consequential game developments, she grabs attention constantly throughout the episode and leaves one of the strongest negative impressions in the group. She's certainly a caricature with her refusal to be a part of the team again and again, and her actions are simplified with frequent "I don't wanna" types of explanations. Tom - MORM3 I understand the tone disagreement, because I'm not entirely sure a mixed tone is warranted. I think he has hints of both negativity and positivity throughout his commentary, so I give him the mixed tone that I think is too infrequently handed out. But I can see a refusal to distribute tone in this rating, it's really pretty weak. I do think a 3 visibility makes sense given his mid-range impact on the episode. Like Cesternino, he does a lot of narration that's scattered throughout the 48 minutes. Their edits are actually very similar in that respect. The only difference I see is that while Rob's narration is quite passive, Tom injects a bit more of his own opinions into his comments, and that's where I think the tone comes from. Mogo Mogo Colby - UTR2 He makes a couple of comments about the special nature of an All-Stars game. He gets enough attention to push him up a notch in visibility, but it's not really enough to justify a MOR rating. He doesn't serve much of a purpose beyond providing some filler commentary about the returning-players season. Jenna M - UTR1 She gets an early confessional, but it's much in the same vein as Colby's, and then is ignored from there on out. She's the one highlighted the least in the girl power scene, and no attention is brought to her for the rest of the episode. Kathy - UTR2 Her commentary is a bit more purposeful than Colby's (in terms of personal character development), but it's still just narration of one quick scene. I could see a lower visibility and wouldn't mind seeing her ranked a 1 instead. I just felt she left a bit more of an impact than characters like Jenna M or Shii Ann. Lex - MOR2 His screen time wasn't much more overwhelming than Colby's, but his content was considerably more profound. Whereas Colby made comments on the general state of the season, Lex commented on himself and how he was approaching the game. He served as mediator to the early strategic dispute of his tribe, he analyzed the Richard situation, and most importantly, he introduced his own character and explained his desire to do the game right. That's enough to warrant a MOR rating, even if his impact on the overall episode wasn't huge. His narration was purposeful and meaningful, and that's what makes the difference between UTR and MOR. Richard - CPN4 First of all, I don't care what the Visibility chart says. The guy was one of the stars of the episode. Mogo Mogo didn't get a lot of screen time, but whenever they did, it was eaten up by Richard Hatch. He even dominated the pre-challenge meet-and-greet. Just because his name wasn't at the bottom of the screen that much doesn't mean he wasn't a huge influence in the episode (and if the confessional count rules made more sense, he'd have a much higher number in that category). Second, and perhaps more importantly, he was not OTT. Yeah, he was a huge character and his antics were ridiculous. Sure, he did things that are inherently OTT in nature. But when you have someone who's acting OTT and you let him explain those actions, that's how you create a CP edit. Richard may have done cartoonish things that were of course going to be highlighted because they're the kinds of things that draw in viewers. But every step of the way, we had Rich explaining why he was doing what he was doing, and where he stood in the game because of it. He tells us the target on his back isn't going to go away, so he's got to push his limits and see what he can get away with. That comment precedes his first show of nudity. The guy may be ridiculous, but we're given insight into his thought process and we know where he's coming from, even if we don't agree. Shii Ann - UTR1 I have no idea how her visibility is supposedly so high. I saw nothing substantial from her all episode. Her one confessional was even more pointless than Amber's (and certainly less character-developing than Jenna's). Again, she's an example of somebody pretty obnoxious, so it's impossible to mute all of her background comments. But she is not developed in any way, shape, or form. A MOR rating is just completely unwarranted. Her airtime (if you can even call it that) is the definition of holding time. It doesn't move her further, it doesn't add to the plot, it doesn't do anything. She's there, just barely. Saboga Ethan - MORM3 Like Tom, I'm not sure his tone is really warranted. But if it is, I do think a mixed tone is more justified than a positive one. Sure, we probably come away rooting for him, but that's mainly because Tina, Rupert, and Rudy are all so positive whereas Jenna Lewis is...not. Early on, Ethan's quite positive about his tribe and the people on it. But as the episode progresses, we see him become frustrated with his position, and he doesn't take it well. We might agree with his sentiment about Jenna's mouth (and big, ol' butt), but it doesn't make it any less of a caustic, mean-spirited dig. The guy is fighting a battle and he's not too happy to be fighting it. His tone is by no means negative, but I think there's enough negativity in there to take away from an overall positive feel. As for his rating and visibility, I think we can find some consensus there. He's not as big of a character in this episode as other members of his tribe, but he's present enough to separate himself from the more inconsequential players. And his content certainly has enough depth to warrant a MOR rating, even if it lacks the complexity to push it into CP territory. Jenna L - CPN5 If there's any question about Jenna's tone or visibility, it's driven home at Tribal Council. Throughout the episode, Jenna is shown to be thinking and scheming. She's not a simplified character, nor is she a caricature of the evil strategist. No, she has reasons for her actions and justifications for her thoughts. She's pretty complex, if mean and nasty. But mean and nasty she is, and that tone is strengthened as the episode progresses. She has no tolerance nor sympathy for the victimized winners. She wants them to get the "hell off [her] playing field" and has no intentions of ever rewarding a winner with a jury vote, no matter what the situation is. And when the credits roll, we're left with one overriding impression of Saboga: "Jenna's the HBIC." Her screen time may not have been as plentiful as Rob's, but it leaves just as much (if not more) of an impression. Jerri - MOR3 Jerri's got a pretty bland edit in this first episode, but it's an edit nonetheless. We're not supposed to forget about her. We just also don't really get into her head or have any sort of feelings about her elicited. Textbook MOR3 edit ftw. Rudy - MORP3 Like Jerri, Rudy isn't very complex (they both offer up only a slight bit of analysis about their situation, Jerri in the form her her vulnerabilities due to Tina, Rudy in the form of his approach to Rupert), but he's present and narrates the situations he's involved in. Unlike Jerri, he also carries a certain amount of tone because we're supposed to like him and appreciate his approach to the game. The group laughs at his pre-IC comments and his attempts to drink the water are conveyed in the exact opposite light of Sue's. Whereas she is derided by the tribe and her hydration ostracizes her from the group, Saboga works with Rudy who explains his lack of fear but never lets it separate himself from the rest of the players. At Tribal Council, Rudy elicits more smiles and Jeff even comments on his amazing physical health (saying he's more fit than most men would be at 50). The tone is clear; we're supposed to like Rudy's edit. And he's around just enough to say he's got that mid-level impact that most of Mogo Mogo doesn't have. He gets a couple of brief scenes devoted to him and attention throughout. Rupert - CPP4 In contrast to most of the members of his tribe, we get into Rupert's head considerably more than other players. From the start, we are told Rupert's strategy, and then we see him implement it. He describes his alliance with Rudy and (though improperly) analyzes its chances for success. He decides the boot and explains his strategic dilemma. We follow him throughout Saboga's story, and while he's not quite the impact player that Jenna or Rob is, he's definitely given a lot of attention and is highlighted as one of our characters to watch, just like Richard and Sue (probably due to his popularity, also just like them). We're completely on his side and identify with his situation, which is where the positive tone begins to come from. It's confirmed when we're reminded of what a great guy Rupert is, such as when Rudy mentions his loyalty and honor or when Rupert explains his motivations for putting himself through this suffering at TC (which Survivor has a daughter named Rea?). He's a positive strategist, the kind of good guy we follow and identify with. Tina - MORP2 She doesn't really leave the impression that Ethan (or even Jerri or Rudy) does, probably because her struggle against the odds is so much less consequential. But we do get some insight from her, and it's all delivered in a very positive light. She's here for what she hopes to be a wonderful experience, she's doing her best to keep herself in the game, and she's holding out for the miracle that will save her from Jenna's evil tyranny. We're on her side, but we don't quite connect with her as well as some of the player who will end up lasting longer. The tone is definitely there, because there's not a moment she's on screen where we don't feel she deserves a chance at this game. (Also, most. heartbreaking.first.boot.ever. |
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BlakeB717 |
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cantthinkofaname wrote: Yes :) Chances are I'll make mistakes with my charts (again, I'm worried about how I'm counting the sentences) so it'll definitely be nice to have someone there keeping my data in check! |
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Oowatanite |
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Chapera:
Alicia - OTTN4 Amber - UTR2 RobC - MOR3 RobM - CPN5 Sue - OTTN3 Tom - MORM3 Mogo Mogo: Colby - UTR2 Jenna M - UTR1 Kathy - UTR2 Lex - MOR2 Rich - OTTN3 Shii Ann - UTR2 Saboga: Ethan - MORM3 Jenna L - CPN4 Jerri - MOR3 Rudy - MORP3 Rupert - CPP4 Tina - MOR2 Winner ......... ERINN |
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cantthinkofaname |
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BlakeB717 wrote:You're still doing the charts, I'll just help with close calls or check for errors on your chart (like if someone should be a 3 or a 3-4 for example). I'm kinda burned out on actually counting the sentences and everything, I did it for 5 seasons. Remember not to count someone saying just one word as a sentence, like Okay or Go. And make sure a response at tribal council was a question from Jeff to put it in the TCQ column. |
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Erinnloveee |
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cantthinkofaname wrote: Maybe this rating warrants a rewatch but I think a 3 visibility is a bit generous. All I remember from him was an early comment about wanting to vote people off and reading treemail. |
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augustus713 |
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Winner: Amber
Write it down, folks! |
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BlakeB717 |
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cantthinkofaname wrote: OK then I'm doing it right! Sweet. I usually made sure the sentence was either grammatically right or at least lasted a 2-3 seconds. |
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scepticA |
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Blake, et al. Great start. I have zero time to devote to the analysis, unfortunately, but if I read of a heated (yet polite!) point of contention I'll
fire up youtube and give my opinion. Just to keep things lively.
Are there spoilers for Season 8??? |
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cindidindi76 |
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There are TONS of spoilers. After the season I'll be sure to let you all know whop I suspect is reading them.
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McPhever224 |
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Posts: 385 (11/15/09 12:24 PM) Registered user |
Chapera:
Alicia - OTTN4 Amber - UTR2 RobC - MOR3 RobM - CPN5 Sue - OTTN3 Tom - MORN3 Mogo Mogo: Colby - UTR2 Jenna M - UTR1 Kathy - MOR2 Lex - MOR2 Rich - CPN3 Shii Ann - UTR2 Saboga: Ethan - MORM3 Jenna L - CPN5 Jerri - MOR3 Rudy - MORP3 Rupert - CPP4 Tina - MORP2 |
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Roasted Samoas |
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i think rupert has a winning edit
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Pulau Tiga |
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Erinnloveee wrote:He had two early confessionals in Chapera's first scene (including the first confessional of the season), and then two more confessionals before the challenge (even if they don't all count under Edgic guidelines. He bookmarked Chapera's airtime in this episode pretty thoroughly. I can see justification for a 2 maybe, but if you're going to do that, I'd like an explanation of how Amber could possibly be a 2 in visibility as well. In fact, I kind of would like that explanation from everyone. |
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cindidindi76 |
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I would kind of like a million dollars.
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NickF227 |
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Are we arguing whether Amber is INV1 in Epi 2 yet?
I already have the popcorn ready. |
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augustus713 |
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CHAPERA
Alicia...OTTN3 Amber...UTR2...I had forgotten just how beautiful she is RobC...MOR2 RobM...CPN5 Sue...OTTN3 Big Tom...MOR3 SABOGA Ethan...MOR3 JennaL...CPN5 Jerri...MOR3 Rudy...MORP3 Rupert...CPP4 Tina...MORP3 MOGO MOGO Colby...UTR2 JennaM...UTR1 Kathy...UTR2 Lex...MOR2 Richard...CPN3 ShiiAnn...MOR2 |
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Oowatanite |
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NickF227 wrote:Unfortunately you'll be disappointed - Amber will get an INV as the deck is stacked against her already. |
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Roasted Samoas |
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Hippochinfat |
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My winner picks as of now are Rudy, Jenna and Rob C.
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Roasted Samoas |
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