S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)

0 Kudos

Started By	Comment
guatemala fanfic	Laura = OTT	#3441	[-]
Posts: 5437 (11/18/09 1:43 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Okay, I just finally rewatched the episode and I firmly change my rating to OTT for Laura. There was no complexity to her. She was cocky about thinking Russell was going to be voted off, thinking Galu would stick together, and she was simplified through her Immunity win which made her an immediate obstacle to the success of Foa Foa's plan, which was supposed to make us dislike her. She was very one-note, in my opinion.
CrystalOwnage		#3442	[-]
Posts: 5414 (11/18/09 2:35 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Um...I might be a bit late, but Natalie was clearly INV in episode 2. I do agree that having one INV shouldn't automatically knock you out, but it's pointless to argue about that episode. It was clear as day, imo.
9RedWing19		#3443	[-]
Posts: 2680 (11/18/09 3:34 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	CrystalOwnage wrote: It was clear as day, imo. Clear as day, Edgically ? Hmmm ...
jimmyj		#3444	[-]
Posts: 16 (11/18/09 3:41 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	ncassaro wrote: rioothello wrote: But then Betsy was pointing the stick to Natalie telling her "what about woman's intuition?" Then Natalie responded. Oh well. I don't care if you guys want to use the INV on her, there are still other people who would agree with me. And even if she truly did get an INV(IMO she didn't), that shouldn't rule her out. Tina had one and now Amber has had a debatable one. Even Bob has a debatable one(he had no speaking parts on episode 2). Natalie didn't even have her name subtitled in that scene. She was definitely INV. Didn't she also have the scene with Ashley in the middle of the night (with Ben chopping something) where Ashley said: Natalie. Don't you think we should have some sort of rule thing when it comes to respecting others... (it was a weird sentence too, cause it wasn't clear and concise on ashely's part. Natalie responded : Good luck. No idea if she was INV or UTR, but i was lurking during the Parvati episode (spoiled S16) and it was a pretty big stretch to show the busted lip comment as UTR. Guess its selective.
getting real		#3445	[-]
Posts: 1901 (11/18/09 3:47 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	CrystalOwnage wrote: It was clear as day, imo.
SurvivorGuy24		#3446	[-]
Posts: 1197 (11/18/09 3:51 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	You do know that 3 UTR episodes to start the season (with no confessionals) is just as bad as 2 UTR's and an INV, right? Let's see, who didn't get an INV (or early UTRs), did get an intro confessional, did get confessionals in the first 3 episodes, and didn't have a crappy merge episode? Oh yeah...some guy named Russell.
astroline		#3447	[-]
Posts: 2788 (11/18/09 4:01 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	SurvivorGuy is right, Russell actually fits Edgic guidelines the most. He's like a monster pumped up version of the Todd/Parvati/Brian/Rich types. We've seen that type of winner before, and Russell is even more visible and was even more negative at the beginning. Mick has been quiet for 3 episodes now, 2 of them as the merge and after the merge, and it doesn't look like his story is picking up anytime soon. The only winner that resembles him is Ethan, and Ethan was back on track right after the weak merge. Mick still isn't. Natalie could logically win, but Edgically it's hard to see just because of her INV and her very weak first 3 episodes. The good news for her is that casual viewers definitely know who she is and they have since Episode 4, but is that too late? Who else better to win Survivor: Russell than Russell himself!
MasterDarkNinja		#3448	[-]
Posts: 2890 (11/18/09 4:13 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	getting real wrote: Interesting exercise, MDN. I think the editing has pre-conditioned us for Eric, Shambo & Jaison to vote for Russell - unless Russell betrays Shambo. I also think that we have been shown that all of the women except Shambo (Laura, Monica & Kelly) are likely to vote for Natalie (Natalie was singled out to be 'working the women'). We have many tie-ins to Mick's vote, if he's on the jury, with the scales leaning towards Natalie. If Shambo is betrayed by Russell, she might well complete the women's voting bloc. We have not as yet been shown any clues in relation to how the Galu men might vote. Yeah Russel gets Shambo's vote unless he betrays her, she'd probably take it badly. While I'll give you that we were shown Natalie having some kind of a relationship with the women, I don't think it's really been strong enough to show jury vote potential, none of the Gelu women have had a confessional about Natalie yet, though the recap did say she was 'working' the Gelu women, yes. A Gelu men/women split on how they vote on the jury would certainly help explain Gelu's edit of being divided by gender actually, even though the men + Shambo alliance didn't even last one vote in the merge. I mean what was the point of it? It sounds like that wasn't that the case at all based on insider videos and exit interviews, so what's the payoff to it? If you want to get really lax on what qualifies for a jury connection then Russel kind of has one with John, with the scene of Russel getting John to agree to vote out Laura (giving him 6 votes), they seemed to get along pretty well in that scene. But it wasn't mentioned in the recap the next episode, so that's a strike against it, and it probably was just to carry the story forward that episode by showing that Russel had the votes to get rid of Laura. What tie ins does Natalie have to Mick to show how that she'd get his vote? I ran my head through everything, and could only remember he was shown having an alliance with Russel, and Russel showed him his HII, but I didn't consider that significant enough to show us a jury connection. Also keep in mind, of Mick, Jaison, and Shambo, I think it's likely that one of the 3 will sit in the F3 facing the jury to. I don't really think it'll be Jaison, he just doesn't feel like a typical edit to make it to the F2/F3 facing the jury and lose, it could be Shambo (she'd probably get no votes, and we all know why), but I'm also wondering about it potentially being Mick, as a more UTR F2/F3 loser kind of like Susie, only problem is he's been too visible early on the season for this, even if he wasn't very memorable when he was visible then. Last Edited By: MasterDarkNinja 11/18/09 4:18 PM. Edited 1 times.
Warrior		#3449	[-]
Posts: 2988 (11/18/09 4:25 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts
fat little fingers		#3450	[-]
Posts: 6352 (11/18/09 4:41 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	What if in Samoa, those who can't overcome their initial stereotypes (Ashley, Liz, etc.) fail, while Natalie overcomes the stereotype of being a 'dumb blonde' and succeeds? Okies you can go back to regular edgic discussion now <3 No, that's a perfectly good point to take into account. There's no doubt that Natalie has a story and that, so far, she's right on track to follow through and best Russell (at least by the edited story's version). I haven't said that there's no way she wins. (My winner choice usually guarantees someone else winning.) My point is that there is nothing that says she goes beyond besting Russell (unless they are the F-2). Edgic just says that, so far, no winner has had as weak a beginning season as Natalie. If she wins, it's unprecedented, and we take a hard look at her edit again. For those arguing for a Natalie win, it's interesting that the last time there was a similar argument (and actual winner) was Vanuatu's Chris, the season responsible for Watchdogs, so as not to overlook low-vis edits. :-P
rioothello		#3451	[-]
Posts: 43 (11/18/09 4:45 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	chapera rocks wrote: Yeah, and Dave was talking directly to Brett and actually received a clear response. But you still think he should be INV1? Betsy pointing a stick at Natalie ...? The entire scene was about Betsy and Ashley. Natalie was just there. Natalie responded to Betsy, but it was off camera AND indecipherable. And Betsy was talking over her. By edgic standards, she deserved INV1. By YOUR standards, INV1 doesn't even exist. Or it's extremely hard to get. From your statement it sounds like your motivation for having her as UTR1 is so that she's not eliminated edgically. But that shouldn't factor in. Either she's INV1 or not, and that shouldn't be affected by whether you want her to be a candidate or not. Like you said, other winners have had INV1 (although rare), so if you want to argue that, go ahead. But making weak arguments about how she wasn't INV1 in episode 2 just makes you appear desperate. That's not to say you are, but it's how it is coming across to me. Sorry if that sounded harsh, just trying to be objective. Uh, you did sound harsh. I am not desperate either. That is also the episode we learned her name when Ashley said "Natalie" and it was subtitled. Like someone else here said, if Parvati's lip could save her from INV, then why can't Natalie's women's intuition and good luck comment save her?
rioothello		#3452	[-]
Posts: 44 (11/18/09 4:46 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	BlakeB717 wrote: Have fun cr. I guess it's your turn with it! Oh shut-up, at least she is attempting to talk like an adult. You on the other hand, are really annoying and you call anybody an idiot who doesn't think Mick will win. (He has had 2 UTR merge episodes, just to remind you).
gretchensucks		#3453	[-]
Posts: 880 (11/18/09 4:50 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	jimmyj wrote: ncassaro wrote: rioothello wrote: But then Betsy was pointing the stick to Natalie telling her "what about woman's intuition?" Then Natalie responded. Oh well. I don't care if you guys want to use the INV on her, there are still other people who would agree with me. And even if she truly did get an INV(IMO she didn't), that shouldn't rule her out. Tina had one and now Amber has had a debatable one. Even Bob has a debatable one(he had no speaking parts on episode 2). Natalie didn't even have her name subtitled in that scene. She was definitely INV. Didn't she also have the scene with Ashley in the middle of the night (with Ben chopping something) where Ashley said: Natalie. Don't you think we should have some sort of rule thing when it comes to respecting others... (it was a weird sentence too, cause it wasn't clear and concise on ashely's part. Natalie responded : Good luck. No idea if she was INV or UTR, but i was lurking during the Parvati episode (spoiled S16) and it was a pretty big stretch to show the busted lip comment as UTR. Guess its selective. Agreed. Since when is a subtitle required? If that's the standard you can throw out most of the UTRs over the years. Parvati wasn't subtitled in the mixup episode either. And her one line was "Parvati"...that's all she said the whole episode. I'm only using that as an example because it's recent memory and she was a winner.
gretchensucks		#3454	[-]
Posts: 881 (11/18/09 4:53 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	SurvivorGuy24 wrote: You do know that 3 UTR episodes to start the season (with no confessionals) is just as bad as 2 UTR's and an INV, right? Let's see, who didn't get an INV (or early UTRs), did get an intro confessional, did get confessionals in the first 3 episodes, and didn't have a crappy merge episode? Oh yeah...some guy named Russell. Sorry for the double post. Like I said, I'm on board with the Russell pick...but Natalie didn't have a shitty merge episode. She had a great merge episode. In fact, I think she was edited to play a larger part than she probably did in real life. And the recap of the merge made it seem like the credit for Erik's boot should be given completely to her. I'm gunna back off now because I think I've made most of my points. But I do have one further observation. Natalie has become this year's edgic Erinn.
OnlyTheHunter		#3455	[-]
Posts: 2069 (11/18/09 5:03 PM) Edgician Reply Quote More Recent Posts	gretchensucks, recall about the Parvati episode, she gets mentioned by name from Amanda as part of the 4 clique, how secure they are, then the focus on her getting separated, then the famous fat lip, when her injury is mentioned and Ami's was not reiterated. Sorry, it's a fair UTR1, in my unimportant opinion. And having picked Alexis, I stand by her INV being a call I didn't agree with. But what do I know? Michael
McPhever224		#3456	[-]
Posts: 393 (11/18/09 5:07 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	MasterDarkNinja wrote: Also keep in mind, of Mick, Jaison, and Shambo, I think it's likely that one of the 3 will sit in the F3 facing the jury to. I don't really think it'll be Jaison, he just doesn't feel like a typical edit to make it to the F2/F3 facing the jury and lose, it could be Shambo (she'd probably get no votes, and we all know why), but I'm also wondering about it potentially being Mick, as a more UTR F2/F3 loser kind of like Susie, only problem is he's been too visible early on the season for this, even if he wasn't very memorable when he was visible then. About Mick facing the jury and losing, it's kinda like an Amanda loss.
panurge46		#3457	[-]
Posts: 1537 (11/18/09 5:16 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	chapera rocks wrote: The casual audience doesn't make that connection. I mean, if that scene makes Natalie non-INV, then again, it'd be very hard for an INV1 rating to exist in the first place. And we weren't given Natalie's thoughts on it. We could have at least heard her say that she didn't want to rock the boat. The audience isn't going to infer that she was implementing a strategy. Not everything is done for the casual audience and I don't really care about ratings so I was certainly not pointlessly arguing for a UTR instead of an INV. I've read many books where the hero isn't introduced in Chapter 1, where we first see the villain set his plan in motion. Certainly, we could have heard Natalie's thoughts at the time but we did finally hear them. Only the finale will tell us if it was too little too late.
SurvivorGuy24		#3458	[-]
Posts: 1199 (11/18/09 5:24 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	The whole point of edgic is "too little too late". It's why some of us weren't fooled by Amanda's late season surge in Micronesia and insisted that Parvati was the winner.
chapera rocks		#3459	[-]
Posts: 11996 (11/18/09 5:25 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	panurge46 wrote: chapera rocks wrote: The casual audience doesn't make that connection. I mean, if that scene makes Natalie non-INV, then again, it'd be very hard for an INV1 rating to exist in the first place. And we weren't given Natalie's thoughts on it. We could have at least heard her say that she didn't want to rock the boat. The audience isn't going to infer that she was implementing a strategy. Not everything is done for the casual audience and I don't really care about ratings so I was certainly not pointlessly arguing for a UTR instead of an INV. I've read many books where the hero isn't introduced in Chapter 1, where we first see the villain set his plan in motion. Certainly, we could have heard Natalie's thoughts at the time but we did finally hear them. Only the finale will tell us if it was too little too late. This I can agree with. But ratings wise, she'd still be INV1. Natalie would be an unprecedented edgic win. But the storyline of her win makes sense. What people are neglecting is that Mick would also be an unprecedented win. This is becoming the edgic season of who breaks the least rules. Right now that is Jaison. Russell also is breaking rules, but I'd say he's the second best pick. Because we do have a hell of a lot of doubt with him.
gretchensucks		#3460	[-]
Posts: 882 (11/18/09 5:26 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	OnlyTheHunter wrote: gretchensucks, recall about the Parvati episode, she gets mentioned by name from Amanda as part of the 4 clique, how secure they are, then the focus on her getting separated, then the famous fat lip, when her injury is mentioned and Ami's was not reiterated. Sorry, it's a fair UTR1, in my unimportant opinion. And having picked Alexis, I stand by her INV being a call I didn't agree with. But what do I know? Michael Just to clarify, Ami's knee injury was reiterated. Parvati's was only mentioned once. The only time Parvati's was mentioned is when Jeff was running down the injury count. If I recall the line went "Parvati with a fat lip, Ami with a busted up knee, and Jonathan with a hurt knee." The camera flashed to Parvati finishing up her round on the course, to Ami on the ground with Amanda holding her knee looking at it, and Jonathan looking at his knee. The only dialogue of Parvati in that episide was her properly pronouncing her name. I don't recall Amanda mentioning her, but I remember her talking about the "couples click" that episode. Even if all of those things are true, that doesn't make her any more visible than Natalie was in episode 2. It means she was a spoiled winner that edgic people, who were spoiled, didn't want eliminated from consideration.

<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>

Yuku free message boards

S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)