The Russell Disconnect

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Mateui		#21	[-]
Posts: 2739 (11/18/09 10:43 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Yeah, historically goats have been players that really didn't do anything during the game. Perhaps Russell is trying to make himself into a goat by doing the complete opposite - playing the game too hard. Someone on Galu may be dumb enough to think he would be a viable F3 opponent.
BortBort		#22	[-]
Posts: 1518 (11/19/09 2:37 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Piranhahaha wrote: I see the point on playing the idol not being exactly genius. Of course, when he played it, it was the obvious thing to do. What I think rises to the genius level is the set up -- not only having the canniness to suspect that there'd be a 2nd HII, but go out and find it, and then let Galu fatten themselves up for the kill. In a game where the HII usually winds up being a dud, he simply could not have played that TC cycle any better. That, folks, was the masterstroke. And again I bump into the self-sabotaging disconnect. Anyhow, John & Dave haven't done anything, true, but they have shown that they understand the game. Maybe now that a concrete threat has emerged, we'll see something from them. Then again I still can't get past John doing that swimming leg of the first challenge while wearing jeans. I totally agree that it was a good move and he played the whole thing well, I just think its premature to call him a genius when actually using the idol was really just common sense (that alot of other contestants have failed to use. ALOT). I guess I see the real geniuses as those that turned things around and shifted the entire direction of the game, for example Chris/Twila in vanuatu (depending on who you give credit to), Fairplay, Rob C (with the Alex boot), Parvati, Cirie etc. Or people that completely control the game like Heidik. I don't think Russel is in their league, not to say he wont make moves that put him in that league in the remainder of the season. Now things are tied at 5-5 he has a chance to change the game. And I agree: what the fuck was with John swimming in the jeans? He doesnt really seem like the shy type...
ncassaro		#23	[-]
Posts: 1708 (11/19/09 12:09 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	You know what the really "devil's advocate" thing to say would be? Russell never would have kept finding idols if only they had kept Exile Island this season. lol.
JT4ever		#24	[-]
Posts: 464 (11/19/09 12:29 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	ncassaro wrote: Russell never would have kept finding idols if only they had kept Exile Island this season. lol. What you wanted to say was "if only they had kept hiding the idols at Exile Island." The idols were also hidden at camp on Tocantins (and China, and Fiji, etc.) If they had buried the idols at camp, that would have foiled Russell, too. But obviously, the show wants idols found and played. Russell has been more than happy to help them out with that.
WillyEx		#25	[-]
Posts: 73 (11/19/09 1:40 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	IMO Russell is not a smart player, yea he found two idols and used it omg best move ever in the history of survivor this guy is a master pro not. When I saw he was sabotaging his own tribe is when i realized the dude wasn't so smart after all.
susieq		#26	[-]
Posts: 3543 (11/19/09 1:42 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Piranhahaha wrote: His means of doing this? By sabotaging his own tribe. This was idiotic. No excuses whatsoever. Weakening your own tribe pre-merge weakens you -- lose an IC, and expose yourself to an early boot, not to mention going into the merge in danger of being Pagonged. I still can't get over him sabotaging his own tribe. That WAS the most idiotic thing that I have ever seen on Survivor. I still wonder just how much better FF could have done if not for his stupidity. I'm willing to say that he got his ass chewed out for destroying Jaison's socks. Destroying another players property is against the rules. IMO, he should have been booted then and there. He is playing a fairly decent game now that his back is against the wall, but the arrogance is still there. My personal hope is that he makes it to the end and doesn't get a single vote. And yes that is purely emotional without considering his late game strategy.
susieq		#27	[-]
Posts: 3544 (11/19/09 1:44 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Piranhahaha wrote: His means of doing this? By sabotaging his own tribe. This was idiotic. No excuses whatsoever. Weakening your own tribe pre-merge weakens you -- lose an IC, and expose yourself to an early boot, not to mention going into the merge in danger of being Pagonged. I still can't get over him sabotaging his own tribe. That WAS the most idiotic thing that I have ever seen on Survivor. I still wonder just how much better FF could have done if not for his stupidity. I'm willing to say that he got his ass chewed out for destroying Jaison's socks. Destroying another players property is against the rules. IMO, he should have been booted then and there. He is playing a fairly decent game now that his back is against the wall, but the arrogance is still there. My personal hope is that he makes it to the end and doesn't get a single vote. And yes that is purely emotional without considering his late game strategy.
Mateui		#28	[-]
Posts: 2740 (11/19/09 2:01 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I like the theory that Russell sabotaged his tribe early game to root out the physically and mentally weak players. Because Foa Foa was put at a disadvantage (whether this was indirectly caused by Russell or not), the people who survived to merge from that tribe have forged tight bonds that will likely not be severed. Compare that to Galu who haven't had to do much scheming and trusting of one another - they were more than willingly to turn on each other so quickly, to their collective detriment.
aboutbreakingrules		#29	[-]
Posts: 823 (11/19/09 4:35 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Piranhahaha wrote: And actually I could see him up there in the F3 arguing that yeah you hate me, but I played hard, and then he gets enough votes to win a fractured jury. Plus nobody from FF knows yet that he was a saboteur. Dayum. This idea makes the disconnect connect. Folks, we may be witnessing an entirely new, highwire strategy to win. At this point, it's pretty much even money. It might not even matter that anyone knows he was a saboteur of sorts. He just needs to watch his step like never before. Chaos he wants to cause, chaos he's getting. Oh, and jurors do compare notes back at the Ponderosa.
GoHomeAndEatYoRice		#30	[-]
Posts: 2615 (11/19/09 4:37 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	This thread has TOO MANY WORDS.
Fart Party		#31	[-]
Posts: 316 (11/19/09 5:04 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Piranhahaha wrote: How and why can a guy go from idiot suicide bomber to an evil genius like this? Because he takes the big risks either way. It's one way to get through a reality game, probably not as easy as floating or a gender alliance, but sometimes people can pull it off on sheer ballsy manipulating. Of course if they don't win then they disappear from the game's history and everyone calls them an idiot, which is the downside of taking big risks.
Maximus20		#32	[-]
Posts: 283 (11/19/09 5:30 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Pulau Tiga wrote: Russell's vulnerable now, and he knows it. He's fighting for his life, and he's going to do everything he can to prolong his stay in the game. He's going to try to play smart, to try to make the right moves, to try to sacrifice airtime if it means sticking around for another episode. Going into the game, Russell wasn't in any such position. He was free to establish himself as top dog, and his ridiculous antics to guarantee screen time weren't truly detrimental to his game. He wasn't at risk, so he could do what he pleased. Nothing's changed about Russell. The situation he's in has. Agreed. Hes actually worried now, and being very careful. And I personally think this Russel, is way smarter, and WAY more fun to watch, Then the "Im gonna dump water outta their canteins" Russel. So..hopfully he stays paranoid for the rest of the game and doesnt go back to being "All talk no game"
Sshaaz		#33	[-]
Posts: 443 (11/19/09 5:59 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	You people talk like Jaison not having his socks caused Mike to have a heart attack and empty canteens caused Foa Foa to lose every damn challenge. Waking up to empty canteens sucks, but overcoming that might have either shown Russell who was out there to survive and who was out there to complain, or given him an opportunity to show he was a provider...they didn't really show the effect, just the cause. Russell didn't make it rain for 2 days straight. Russell didn't give up like Jaison did at a few challenges. Russell fed the tribe a load of bullshit and they've seen to have fallen for it. That's just the way he is. He also made the same deal with every chick out there. Every move he made at the beginning was a risk, counteracted by moves to lower the risk. I don't see how him sabotaging his tribe with the two things he did caused anything that occurred after. Betsy was a liability, Mike was a liability, Jaison was and is a failure. It was established that Ashley was useless and Ben was a social cancer. Marisa and Liz shot themselves in the face. Apparently, there's a guy out there named Mick. Russell S interrupted a possible Foa Foa victory. Foa Foa isn't in the position they are in because of Russell or anything he's done. As a matter of fact, they are in a much better position because of him. Two HIIs, Shambo... He's not doing anything more than backing up his boasting that he's 'controlling this game.' If he leaves tonight, he won't be just forgotten about... Not after the FTC, not after the Reunion... There will be people talking, good or bad, about Russell here at sucks until the board goes away.
Piranhahaha		#34	[-]
Posts: 13263 (11/30/09 12:02 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	On the recap, we see Russell footage of him sabotaging his own tribe. All for the purpose of making them his puppets? Fine, we've seen that, and it still makes no sense. Did it even affect FF's losing streak? Then, post-merge, we hear Jiffy intoning that Russell "was up to his old tricks." Except this time, it was a brilliant idea: after Erik expended all the energy capturing the escaped chicken, and he and Shambo bonded upon the bird's return, Russell sabotaged the cage door. Terrific if it worked, and maybe it did, but I suspect it didn't. EPMB would've edited out a reward challenge for footage of the new tribe blaming each other for the mistake. The disconnect remains. If you sabotage your tribe and nobody notices it, does that make you a saboteur?
BortBort		#35	[-]
Posts: 1587 (11/30/09 5:17 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Piranhahaha wrote: If you sabotage your tribe and nobody notices it, does that make you a saboteur? I dunno, ask him:
spiritstlou	Not a Disconnect at All	#36	[-]
Posts: 6 (11/30/09 9:37 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Suvivor is an individual game--not group 90210 feel-goodness. Unlike the more popular strategies, Russell made it an individual game right from the beginning. He wasn't there so others in his tribe could "survive". He wasn't there to win challenges. He was there to win the whole game and the million dollars. It is a refreshing strategy after a run of survivor seasons full of social 90210ers.
OrsNaz		#37	[-]
Posts: 412 (11/30/09 11:34 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	spiritstlou wrote: Suvivor is an individual game--not group 90210 feel-goodness. Unlike the more popular strategies, Russell made it an individual game right from the beginning. He wasn't there so others in his tribe could "survive". He wasn't there to win challenges. He was there to win the whole game and the million dollars. It is a refreshing strategy after a run of survivor seasons full of social 90210ers. No... Had Russell not found 2 idols his tribe would have been pagonged. It isn't a good strategy to sabotage your tribe. Going into the merge with the numbers > Getting incredibly lucky or love from the producers. Russell is actually playing more of a team game than he likes to admit. Had Natalie not got the girls to switch, there tribe would have been fucked. You always rely on your alliance members not to switch and to make decent moves to push you further in the game.
watchinuall		#38	[-]
Posts: 1279 (11/30/09 4:33 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I agree with your post, Piranhahaha, there has been no real "explanation" of why Russell has done the sabotage, nor any sign of repercussions. I don't get that part at all--why have these people been so apparently complacent toward this kind of behavior? So, it just comes across as mean, and I just don't get "mean for the sake of being mean." I think that (well, that and the overabundance of Russell face time and Russell-love on the part of production) is why I despise him so.
goohst		#39	[-]
Posts: 1399 (11/30/09 5:18 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Russell day one doesn't have to be the same as Russell day ten or day thirty. Think about it this way: Lillian played badly. She was voted out. She learned, and she played very solidly her second chance. Sometimes you get a second chance to come back from a mistake. Russell learned playing sabotage didn't work to keep his allies close, but his enemies did suffer. Russell stopped the sabotage and became a lowkey player once his tribal phase didn't work out, and although he was very uppity in confessionals, he voted out Ben AND Ashley, two people he'd have liked to keep, at his tribe's request. He swore he would win the challenge for his tribe, encouraged Jaison in the water, and pushed his tribe to live. He learned what his strategy did, and he pushed it at once the merge hit. I would also like to randomly add Joe was in a good position in Tocantins if it weren't for his knee and it was mistakenly stumbled upon.

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The Russell Disconnect