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Onesearch |
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In previous seasons, I've argued (on another board) that it's best to go ahead and chance the odd colored rock. It gives your tribe a 50 50 chance of
winning. But that's a black and white argument that assumes playing with your tribe is important because everyone in your tribe is inclined to stick
together and Pagong the other tribe after the win. There are so many factors that make this not a black and white situation. First, John's tribe is not
united and regardless of who he sides with in this vote, his name is going to start coming up in a lot of mouths in a couple of weeks, anyway, as he is several
kinds of threat. Second, with Laura gone, he has a reasonable chance of winning Shambo back to reformed Galu. Third, in a Galu with Laura still in it, he's
probably the first of the Galutian five to go, anyway, after a Foa Foa+ Shambo pagonging.
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GrenadeJumper85 |
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The simple fact of the matter is - John is there for another three days, Laura isn't. John wins.
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grodney |
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1. In the rules Krazy Kathy posted: If it's a tie after the 2nd vote, EVERYONE except the 2 people with votes then draw rocks. That includes the person
with individual immunity. So it would have been 8 people drawing. (There's actually a "discussion" session first to see if they can work it out
verbally, but this is never mentioned.)
2. In the rules Krazy Kathy posted: There was no mention of the HII, so it's unclear how it would be handled. Probably however the producers want to handle it. Although if it went to rocks, I sincerely doubt you could play the HII to save yourself. |
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GrenadeJumper85 |
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The HII can't be played to save yourself from the purple rock.
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Beefcake |
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1. It is never smart to pick the PROD. You are giving up control of your fate and risking your "life" on luck. It's stupid. (And this TC showed
just how stupid Dave is. He's the kind of guy who will never be a good gambler, because he thinks taking stupid risks is somehow manly).
2. Galu telegraphed to John that he is No. 5 in their pecking order. He knows a tight alliance like Laura and Monica is dangerous, which is why he wanted one of them gone, and I'm sure he suspects/knows Laura is the one who wants him gone. Why should he take a 1/7 chance of getting booted to protect Laura, of all people? 3. Alliances are fluid in Survivor. You never know who is going to side with whom, especially at the end of the game. Like GreJu said, John is still playing and Laura isn't. John wins. 4. John isn't playing for 5th or 6th place; he's playing for first. If he votes for Natalie on the re-vote, he (1) has a chance of being voted out and (2) knows he is in 5th place on his alliance. Siding with Foa Foa, he has a chance to move up in the pecking order. On Galu, the pecking order has been set -- by Laura. 5. Everyone seems to be glossing over one major point: John's vote wasn't free. Russell made a deal that if John went along with Foa Foa's plan, the next boot would be a Foa Foa. Now we'll see whether Russell lives up to that. |
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GrenadeJumper85 |
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Exactly. There was absolutely NO reason or incentive for John to force another tie and go to purple rock. No player trying to win the game is going to risk a
1/8 chance of getting sent home by a fucking rock.
There are times when taking risks in Survivor are necessary - taking a chance with the PROD is never one of them because you have absolutely no control over it. Besides, what was the incentive for John to try and save that old, haggard bitch anyway?! She already clearly had the pecking order setup and John was right at the bottom of it. They didn't even talk to him about the plan in the first place, showing him that he had absolutely no value to them at all. Idiots. |
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shollia |
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I hope Russ doesn't keep his word to him. It would be stupid right now to get rid of their own when the numbers are still close. They'd be pulling a
Galu move if they got rid of a FoaFoa next.
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pinkbug8u |
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OMG John was never 5th on that pecking order! MONICA was. It's 3 Galu guys (Dave, Brett, John) who has been plotting Monica's exit since before the
merge, to 2 Galu women (Laura and Monica). Even Shambo the clueless one knew that. That's why she suggested that Russell get rid of Kelly instead of
Monica who is less of a threat since all the guys will vote her out in a second. And "the guys have nothing against Kelly so she's a bigger
threat" says Shambo. Once Monica is gone Laura is left to herself which will be an easy vote off since Shambo will still be out for blood. Leaving the
guys to fight for 1st. Could've had a shot for at least top 3.
The argument that it was a good plan because he would be at the bottom with Galu, just because they weren't PROMPT in telling him about Monica's half baked plan (that let's face it, had no chance in working) is retarted. They DID tell him about it, meaning they didn't plan to blindside him with it and that he wasn't out of the loop. The guys that told him probably didn't know that Monica has jumped the gun and set the plan in motion already when they told him the idea which Dave expressed when he said "it's not in motion yet". They (meaning the guys) were still tight enough to discuss strategy together which is what they've been doing since voting for Shambo as leader. Meaning he was never 5th! I'll condede though that yes there is a chance they wouldn't stick together and pagong the other tribe, but I think the remaining Galu were pretty much in concensus that there are threats on that tribe. Not the least of which is RUssell, (which if Laura had stayed will still be gung-ho to getting rid of which Monica will follow) and the challenge threats that are Jaison and Mick. |
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Miles Edgeworth |
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natalie was immune from the purple rock as was laura. the onlu way he would have been helped was if either russel or jaison drew the rock. Dems bad odds esp
for someone whose alliance just tried to throw them under the bus.
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GrenadeJumper85 |
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OMG John was never 5th on that pecking order! MONICA was. It's 3 Galu guys (Dave, Brett, John) Reading post show interviews can open up your eyes to many things that were hidden in the game. Brett was never 100% with the guys, he was closer to the girls, especially so Laura. Kelly revealed as much in her day after and post show interviews. So realistically it was Dave/John and Laura/Monica/Brett as the breakdown in Galu at that point. |
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Beefcake |
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And I'm not sure how tight Dave was with John, either. Dave seemed to mostly plot with Laura and Monica, too. Why else would Monica immediately come up
with "I want John gone" when talking with Jaison and Mick?
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7o62x39 |
John's Play was Idiotic | ||
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PLAY
In John's lame negotiation with Russell, several basics of Survivor 101 are violated by John. #1 A deal in which I give you something now in exchange for future considerations is desperate and generally very poor play. Any benefit in the future must be discounted when compared to value in the present being exchanged. This discount rate is equal to risk and this deal with Russ should have a very high discount rate, to the point that what Russ agreed to has basically no value. #2 A deal isn't worth anything unless it is in the self-interest of both parties. John asks for the absurd as if he is negotiating from strength. "If I am your sixth vote, you must give up a Foa next." This is laughable it is so idiotic. No doubt Johnis going to get his ass voted off next when he tries to collect on Russ and Russ laughs in his face. John will pout and try to out Russ by telling the Foas that Russ agreed to vote off one of them. RUSS READS JOHN THE RIOT ACT, E11 John starts pouting and demanding that Russ fulfil his obligation to vote Foa. Russ tells him to fuck off. He pouts some more and outs Russ. Russ at the TC, "First John, only a moron would honor such a deal and only a super moron would expect me too. You came to me and offered up your friends to save your sorry ass from the stupidity of Galu since the merge. Basically you said to me, 'I have no honor or balls. I am a little pussy scared of rocks. So Russ would you make a stupid deal with me and betray your friends?' At that point I am negotiating with a man with no honor and no brain. You insult me with a stupid and dishonorable offer. Therefore I am under no obligation to return any honor to you in doing anything other than lying to your Judas face. At least the other Galus, although they have played stupidly, have honor and the balls to face the rocks. Now you try to fuck with me and divide me against my firends by accusing me of conspiring to betray my friends. My accuser has pleaded guity to the crime he accuses me of and for that, you dick, we're voting you off tonight." Well if Lynne had cast me that's what I would do in Russ' shoes. FLIPPING There was a 57% chance of Galu leaving the TC as the minority if they pulled rocks. Clearly the HII IS NOT under the rules in play after the votes. That is, only an immunity "won at a challenge" protects you from the rocks. Russ knows this (it may have been explained at the TC since Jeff obviously knew the tie was in play). If the HII DID protect you against rocks, then Russ would have played it protecting himself against rocks, refecting him if he was in fact the target, and most importantly changing the odd of Galu drawing a rock to 4 in 6 (75%) at which case a flip would be almost a certainty. In addition to the rock draw odds you also have to weigh the probabilities that someone else will flip too. JOHN'S CORRECT PLAY IF YOU HE IS WILLING TO FLIP If I were John the last person you make a deal with is Russ. He is at the center of power and doesn't need you. The best he can offer you is 5th (ahead of Shambo, and he really should offer nothing more than 6th). John should go to the Foa's 4th (Jaison) and cut a deal. The "deal" obligates nothing because these are not fricking contracts that you can sue over - good god this country is so legalistic. You deliver the sixth to someone other than Russ and create more power to them (Jaison). You must fracture Foa before they get to you. You ask nothing of Jaison, but it is now in Jaison's interest to make sure you do not go first. What the fuck is Russell going to say E11? I think we should vote Jaison's pet John?
Last Edited By: 7o62x39
11/20/09 11:52 AM.
Edited 2 times.
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LOLABINGO |
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John was smart. Why put his ass on the line for Laura, for bad odds that someone "loyal" to him wouldn't pick the purple rock, or the 1/7 that he
wouldn't? Laura's interview shows that the two female Galus and Brett DID plan to vote him out anyway as soon as they got the chance.
I think the ones acting all "ballsy" and willing to choose a fucking rock were the dim ones. He is there, he has immunity challenges he can win, idols he can find, deals he can make, and Shambo could easily flip things, and she likes him. It's not over until the fat lady sings, or some idiot pulls a purple rock in a bullshit show of solidarity in a single-winner game. Had he pulled the rock, how "smart" would people be saying he was? |
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Beefcake |
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Exactly. People who are arguing about the odds of a Galu or Foa Foa going home are missing the point. If John's goal was to have a Galu win, then there
might be some merit to the argument. But why should John care whether a Galu or Foa Foa wins the game? All he should care about is whether HE wins the game,
and drawing the purple rock means you have a 100% chance of going home. And Galu had already telegraphed to him that he was expendable by making him the decoy
target. Drawing rocks was a great deal for Laura -- she was immune. It was a shitty deal for John, and he was smart to realize it.
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Outback |
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If John can convince Shambo to take Foa Foa member next so to prevent from Foa Foa member gaining majority. John move to flip was smart. But if Shambo decides
to stick with Foa Foa and Galu are all eliminated including John. John will goes down as the player that was main reason why Galu exploded.
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cabanachat |
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Beefcake wrote: THIS. |
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MidnightPrince69 |
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Hi, cabana <3 xoxoxo
The REASON why GALU went to hell is because a producer led Russ. H. to the second hidden idol. YWIA. |
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Beefcake |
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Outback wrote: Galu exploded when they voted out Erik -- and that was Laura's doing. |
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MidnightPrince69 |
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Of course. And so was the rigged hidden 2. :)
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chad6 |
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Ok, Stop saying John shouldn't have risked the PROD to save Laura. It wasn't Laura he was saving, it was an ally that he needed to have a shot at
winning. FF is not breaking up, period. With Galu, he had a chance with the guys, or he could make a switch later on. With FF + Shambo he is 6th no matter what
and they can dump him before that b/c with them he has no say whatsoever. His only move now would be to get Shambo to switch back at the F9, but Shambo is kind
of an idiot so good luck with that.
He made the stupid move. Sticking with FF pretty much ensured he cannot win. |
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