S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)

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getting real		#4201	[-]
Posts: 1934 (11/29/09 3:51 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Can I also repeat that during the entire opening sequence of the recap, highlighting the past 27 days, ONLY Russell, Natalie and Shambo were specifically mentioned by name in the Probst voiceover? Go right ahead. It's worth repeating.
BlakeB717		#4202	[-]
Posts: 2482 (11/29/09 3:51 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	0.737 - Mick Trimming 0.278 - Mick Trimming* 0.167 - Mick Trimming 0.170 - Mick Trimming 0.000 - Mick Trimming 0.000 - Mick Trimming 0.071 - Mick Trimming* 0.053 - Mick Trimming* -0.063 - Mick Trimming 0.000 - Mick Trimming *episodes I voted P Overall: 0.142 - Mick Trimming To say that Mick has been toneless is a shame. Jaison is at 0.101, should we say that he's toneless too? Last Edited By: BlakeB717 11/29/09 7:18 PM. Edited 1 times.
BlakeB717		#4203	[-]
Posts: 2483 (11/29/09 3:56 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	If we're going to make a big deal about Mick not getting the "right edit at the right time" in the mid-latter half of the season, then what about these instances?: Danni - UTR1 - her last ally gets the boot and gets no explanation for it until the recap the following episode saying "even Danni, Gary's only ally, voted for him" Bob - UTR1 - loses his ally Marcus and all he gets is telling Marcus that he's loyal to him Why weren't they showing doing anything to save their ally? A winner must be shown doing important things!! My point? A winner doesn't have to be shown doing anything, as long as they aren't shafted in editing for long stretches or are completely irrelevent/INV in one particular episode--then it's OK for them not to be "doing" anything.
Kitty Pryde1		#4204	[-]
Posts: 10943 (11/29/09 3:57 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Danni and Bob were both underdog winners who won after ALL their allies were voted out before them. Pretty sure that Russell, Jaison and Natalie are still in the game, so comparing Mick to Bob or Dani is utter bullshit. This season's winner is more like Yul or J.T. in terms of tone or visibility.
BlakeB717		#4205	[-]
Posts: 2484 (11/29/09 4:21 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Seasonal Averages as of Episode 10: Yul Tone- 0.44 Visibility- 2.99 JT Tone- 0.421 Visibility- 3.40 -- Mick Tone- 0.142 Visiblity- 2.66 Jaison Tone- 0.101 Visibility- 3.11 Natalie Tone- 0.322 Visibility- 2.23 Russell H Tone- -0.584 Visibility- 4.68 There will be no Yul or JT winner this season.
getting real		#4206	[-]
Posts: 1935 (11/29/09 4:34 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Please don't support her, it's driving me bananas! Opinions drive you bananas? That's a lot of time in your life to spend driven to fruit!
BlakeB717		#4207	[-]
Posts: 2486 (11/29/09 4:40 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Averages as of Episode 10 Danni Tone- 0.328 Visibility- 2.18 Natalie may be your Danni winner, gr--not Mick. =P But Danni also didn't go to as many TCs or get an INV...
panurge46		#4208	[-]
Posts: 1564 (11/29/09 4:48 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Kitty Pryde1 wrote: The problem with comparing Mick to Danni is that Danni was the last one standing. Her entire tribe got picked off, one after another... Can I also add that Stephenie's axis of evil was portrayed as the Mayan Empire? Just like we don't know what caused that empire's collapse, we didn't see exactly how Danni operated. I believe her edit was built around that storyline. Here, we know why Galu collapsed: They were no match for a battle-tested tribe with a plan. That plan was credited to Russell and executed by Natalie. It HAS to come down to one of those two.
chapera rocks		#4209	[-]
Posts: 12104 (11/29/09 5:52 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	BlakeB717 wrote: chapera rocks wrote: BlakeB717 wrote: May be useless stats, but I thought they were interesting-- Winners edits in the first episode they went to TC: Richard- CP5 (ep1) Tina- MOR3 Ethan- CPP4 (ep1) Vecepia- UTR2 (ep1) Brian- MOR2 (ep1) Jenna M- MORN3 Sandra- UTR2 Amber- MOR4/CP4 Chris- CPN4 (ep1) Tom- MOR3 Danni- UTR2 (ep1) Aras- MORN3 Yul- CP4 Earl- CP4 (ep1) Todd- CP4 Parvati- CP4 (ep1) Bob- MOR2 JT- MOR2 (ep1) Mick- MORP3 (ep1) Jaison- UTR2 (ep1) Natalie- UTR1 (ep1) Russell H- OTTNN5 (ep1) Winners edits in all pre-merge episodes they went to TC: Richard- CP5, CP4, MORN3 Tina- MOR3, MOR3, CPP4 Ethan- CPP4, MOR2, CPP3 Vecepia- UTR2, MOR4, CPP4, UTRP2 Brian- MOR2, UTRP3, UTRN2 Jenna M- MORN3, UTRN2, UTR2 Sandra- UTR2, MORP3, MOR3, MORP3* Amber- MOR4/CP4, CPP5 Chris- CPN4, MOR2, UTR2, CP3 Tom- MOR3 Danni- UTR2, MOR3, UTR1, CPP3 Aras- MORN3, CP4 Yul- CP4, CP4, CP4 Earl- CP4, CPP4, UTR2, CPP4 Todd- CP4, CP5 Parvati- CP4, MOR3 Bob- MOR2, OTTP2, UTR1 JT- MOR2, MORP3, OTT3, CP5 Mick- MORP3, MOR4, CP4, MOR3, MOR3, MOR2 Jaison- UTR2, CP4, OTTP5, MOR4, MORN3, OTTN3 Natalie- UTR1, INV1, UTR2, MORP3, UTR2, UTR2 Russell H- OTTNN5, CPN5, CPN5, CPN5, OTTM4, CPN5 --stars indicate double-boot or double TC (shared time) no winner has ever received an 1 visibility in the first TC they attended no winner has ever attended TC pre-merge and been INV no winner has ever been OTTN in a pre-merge TC most winners do not get OTT or receive any 1 visibilities in these TCs most winners receive at least 1 tone rating, if they receive more it isn't a lot nor is it both N and P--they either stay P or stay N in these episodes most winners average out to MOR or CP and have few UTRs visibility averages out to be around 3 Personal analysis: Russell H- too much tone, too high visibility Jaison- too much tone, too much fluctuation in tone, has OTTN, visibility may be a little high Natalie- multiple 1 visibilities, INV, too many UTRs, low visibility Mick- no real issues *note: if the winner is from Foa Foa, they will have gone to the most TCs of any winner These aren't edgic guidelines, so they can't be used at all (according to you). Why can't stats post-merge be used? Post merge is when the winner's story usually picks up anyway. Those stats would NOT present Mick in a great light. How about this stat? Ratings in episodes that the winner won immunity (non-finale): Richard - CP4 Ethan - OTTP5 Vecepia - MORP3 Brian - CPN3 Jenna M. - MORN3, OTT3 Chris - CPP4 Tom - MOR4, CP3, CPN4 Danni - CPP4 Aras - CPP4 Parvati - CP4 Bob - MORP4, CPP3 J.T. - MOR3 I don't see a UTR. I don't even see anything below vis 3. Are you kidding me? I posted something and admittedly said it's may not be useful. It was interesting to me, it wasn't a "pro-person X" or "anti-person X" campaign. You really need to lighten up. And Edgic is about focusing on the pre-merge ;-) 1. Any pattern you post is great for Mick. 2. Any pattern posted that detracts from Mick is "not an edgic guideline". 3. I'm not the one trying so hard to make X player look good, so I think I'm pretty relaxed right now.
BlakeB717		#4210	[-]
Posts: 2487 (11/29/09 5:58 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I posted that because we now have information on Amber's first TC, which was plenty telling in comparison to the rest of her edit. I was looking for a trend for myself and put this in MS Word, noticed a trend, and posted my open analysis of it. I would rather you discuss what was posted rather than be a troll and flip out because "everything and anything I post has some mysterious connotation about Mick and others". I can't make up the facts! Last Edited By: BlakeB717 11/29/09 6:02 PM. Edited 1 times.
chapera rocks		#4211	[-]
Posts: 12105 (11/29/09 6:07 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Wasting my time arguing something is moot with you since you come up with any and every rationalization until you can't and then you give up. The point is, this analysis helps Mick and so you posted it and said how it may be something important. Yet when trends are posted that detract from Mick are posted, "they're not edgic guidelines" or "they're just not important [to you]".
Jedijake		#4212	[-]
Posts: 6009 (11/29/09 6:08 PM) MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Danni and Bob were both underdog winners who won after ALL their allies were voted out before them. Pretty sure that Russell, Jaison and Natalie are still in the game, so comparing Mick to Bob or Dani is utter bullshit. Well now the statement sure wasn't meant to elicit that much emotion lol. Sorry 'bout that. It was more about the tone than about visibility or tribal position.
chapera rocks		#4213	[-]
Posts: 12107 (11/29/09 6:21 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Jedijake wrote: Danni and Bob were both underdog winners who won after ALL their allies were voted out before them. Pretty sure that Russell, Jaison and Natalie are still in the game, so comparing Mick to Bob or Dani is utter bullshit. Well now the statement sure wasn't meant to elicit that much emotion lol. Sorry 'bout that. It was more about the tone than about visibility or tribal position. I can see both your points. I have to agree with kitty though ... that kind of edit has been reserved for the comeback winner, and they are very UTRP. Winners who are in the majority like Mick is right now typically have at least some complex component to them. The argument I've heard is that Mick is too boring to be a CP winner. But as the recap showed, he's capable of articulating a cohesive strategy and yet we've heard nothing from him in the main episodes. By my count, this is his fourth UTR in a row. Officially, 3 UTRs. All after the merge. Even Bob and Danni didn't have that. Typically, the UTR winner has UTR ratings pre-merge. Not post-merge.
BlakeB717		#4214	[-]
Posts: 2488 (11/29/09 6:24 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	chapera rocks wrote: Wasting my time arguing something is moot with you since you come up with any and every rationalization until you can't and then you give up. The point is, this analysis helps Mick and so you posted it and said how it may be something important. Yet when trends are posted that detract from Mick are posted, "they're not edgic guidelines" or "they're just not important [to you]". I don't think there is any problems with Mick's edit besides his merge being UTR; but like I've said, I've rationalized (to myself) why that is, and I'm satisified. You don't see me fighting Jaison supporters all that much, because edgically he's fine for the most part. Natalie and Russell are completely off and I have an issue with support for either of them. I just don't like Jaison's content and I think he's more of Cirie/Stephen "proving/overcoming something about themself" than a winner. I don't like his low visibility E1 followed by high visibility in episodes 2 and 3... very reminiscent of Micro Cirie, Brendan, and Taj.
chapera rocks		#4215	[-]
Posts: 12109 (11/29/09 6:34 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	BlakeB717 wrote: chapera rocks wrote: Wasting my time arguing something is moot with you since you come up with any and every rationalization until you can't and then you give up. The point is, this analysis helps Mick and so you posted it and said how it may be something important. Yet when trends are posted that detract from Mick are posted, "they're not edgic guidelines" or "they're just not important [to you]". I don't think there is any problems with Mick's edit besides his merge being UTR; but like I've said, I've rationalized (to myself) why that is, and I'm satisified. You don't see me fighting Jaison supporters all that much, because edgically he's fine for the most part. Natalie and Russell are completely off and I have an issue with support for either of them. I just don't like Jaison's content and I think he's more of Cirie/Stephen "proving/overcoming something about themself" than a winner. I don't like his low visibility E1 followed by high visibility in episodes 2 and 3... very reminiscent of Micro Cirie, Brendan, and Taj. Edgically, a string of UTR's post merge is just as much, if nor more of a death sentence than and INV1. From and edgic pattern stand point, Mick is just as inviable as Russ or Natalie, no matter what your rationalizations are; rationalizations are subjective, patterns are objective. So if you support Mick, that's fine. But those who support Russ or Natalie aren't any more out of line by edgic standards than you are.
SFC		#4216	[-]
Posts: 817 (11/29/09 6:51 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	On top of that, the highest number of UTR's a winner has had in the pre merge portion was 2 (Vee and Danni), and those were spread out. In the first 3 episodes since the merge Mick has been UTR. I know I may get called a dumbass for this, but this reminds me of the Aitu 4 Post Merge. Russell is Yul, the one making all the plans, and getting rid of the Raro's/Galu's Natalie is Ozzy based on the fact of she is the non strategic one, but still has their recognition. Both Ozzy and Yul were the key Aitu players, and so are Russell and Natalie Mick is Becky, both are in the alliance, and have ties to the other players, but are not important to the story at all. Jaison is Sundra, the one not in the action, but still having positive bits. Waits for the :"Lol you're nuts Mick is Yul, Natalie is Becky"
AveryC		#4217	[-]
Posts: 60 (11/29/09 7:05 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Mick is now one of only six contestants to have recieved three consectutive UTR's straight after the merge. He is the only person in that group to have never had a similar UTR streak earlier in the season, and the only person who will not be UTR overall most likely. Other people who have done this are Butch, Darrah, Lydia, Susie and now Brett as well. It's odd to me that he's had this given his prior edit compared to the other five. ETA: Removed Natalie from the list. Last Edited By: AveryC 11/29/09 7:08 PM. Edited 1 times.
BlakeB717		#4218	[-]
Posts: 2489 (11/29/09 7:19 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	chapera rocks wrote: BlakeB717 wrote: chapera rocks wrote: Wasting my time arguing something is moot with you since you come up with any and every rationalization until you can't and then you give up. The point is, this analysis helps Mick and so you posted it and said how it may be something important. Yet when trends are posted that detract from Mick are posted, "they're not edgic guidelines" or "they're just not important [to you]". I don't think there is any problems with Mick's edit besides his merge being UTR; but like I've said, I've rationalized (to myself) why that is, and I'm satisified. You don't see me fighting Jaison supporters all that much, because edgically he's fine for the most part. Natalie and Russell are completely off and I have an issue with support for either of them. I just don't like Jaison's content and I think he's more of Cirie/Stephen "proving/overcoming something about themself" than a winner. I don't like his low visibility E1 followed by high visibility in episodes 2 and 3... very reminiscent of Micro Cirie, Brendan, and Taj. Edgically, a string of UTR's post merge is just as much, if nor more of a death sentence than and INV1. From and edgic pattern stand point, Mick is just as inviable as Russ or Natalie, no matter what your rationalizations are; rationalizations are subjective, patterns are objective. So if you support Mick, that's fine. But those who support Russ or Natalie aren't any more out of line by edgic standards than you are. According to my chart, Mick's edit since the merge is nearly identical to Vecepia's, so I can't complain about patterns.
SFC		#4219	[-]
Posts: 818 (11/29/09 8:03 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Now you're at the Vecepia comparison. However one thing she beats Mick at: V's Merge episode - MOR2 Micks Merge episode- UTR1
BlakeB717		#4220	[-]
Posts: 2490 (11/29/09 8:10 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I like cantthinkofaname's updated charts of older seasons because they use the visibility charts. I've rewatched some episodes of some seasons to check and see if they match up, and for the most part I really agree. Don't be thrown off by Vecepia's INV, cantthinkofaname agrees that she was UTR1. Merge starts at E7. Regardless, I'm not a fan of comparing people's edits from other seasons in different situations. No winner has ever been in a 12-person merge. With Russell H playing his idol and Natalie being the sole reason they got Erik out, I can't have expected much from Mick that week.

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S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)