S-19 Edgic (editing and logic) in Survivor Speculation Forum

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S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)

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Better Than Most		#4721	[-]
Posts: 29 (12/11/09 03:55 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Semi finale: Ads vs. People Remove this ad troynuncdicit wrote: Who said she wouldn't be expected to perform well? Nobody needs to say it because it's common sense. She's a tiny (yes, athletic) woman playing against four athletic guys in a challenge where size is relevant.
troynuncdicit		#4722	[-]
Posts: 714 (12/11/09 04:50 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Size didn't mater in racing out to the bags and Natalie sucked in that part too. Monica who hasn't gotten a P for athletic performance yet was right up there with the guys in racing for the bags. Even Shambo was beating Natalie. If she got a P last week, she should get an N this week, in my books. Last Edited By: troynuncdicit 12/11/09 04:53 PM. Edited 1 times.
cindidindi76		#4723	[-]
Posts: 20882 (12/11/09 05:37 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Better Than Most wrote: unduli clone wrote: Jaison - CPM3 I think the CP is fairly self-explanatory; Jaison outlined his end-game and what he needs to get there and showed that he is truly here to play. I think that the way he approached Monica/Brett was N at first, then I thought it was P, and I couldn't really decide. The whole "Russell is a millionaire" debacle also seemed to be something that was dangled for the audience to dis/approve of, without giving a solid footing as to whether we should appreciate his move or think he is a traitor. I was a bit skeeved out by his tone and think that M fits best, because we were not given clear editorial intent, as far as I could tell. I didn't think he was N at all. They included Jaison saying he honestly didn't remember whether he told Monica about it, so he wasn't portrayed as straight-up lying. What I found interesting about the scene where he was supposed to be telling Monica and Brett how rich Russell was, the part about how much he made was SO obviously edited in from a different time. Kind of odd to me. I LOVED Monica this episode. Too bad they didn't show us more of her fiesty-ness throughout the season.
Better Than Most		#4724	[-]
Posts: 30 (12/11/09 06:00 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	cindidindi76 wrote: What I found interesting about the scene where he was supposed to be telling Monica and Brett how rich Russell was, the part about how much he made was SO obviously edited in from a different time. Kind of odd to me. I agree that that was extremely weird; I wouldn't be surprised if they got that info from Mick or Nat instead. It was strange how Monica first told Russell she heard it from Nat, then said something like, No, I meant Jaison. Who knows why Brett said Jaison's name: could have been honesty; could have been that he didn't want to betray Nat right in front of her; could even have been arranged with Monica. Or maybe Jaison did tell them but he did so in a different location, and they transplanted the audio for a more cohesive visual scene. Peculiar in any case.
BlakeB717		#4725	[-]
Posts: 2552 (12/11/09 06:14 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I promised not to post anything other than ratings or close-calls in this thread for the remainder of the season. I do, however, think I owe it to Edgic to post some thoughts to keep us in the right direction. I'm breaking my promise quickly, then I'll scurry back off! Russell Hantz: Downfall or Winner's Doubt? Jeff Probst: Previously on, Survivor... Russell H: I'm in control of this game. Everything has worked for me so far. I set up my alliance so strong, my people, they come up to me, they tell me everything. [shot of Natalie telling him something in the hammock] Jeff Probst: By Day 30, Russell was driving on cruise control, mowing down anyone anyone who got in his way. Russell H: Now I can comfortable sit on my throne and watch everybody bicker at each other. Jeff Probst: He felt so comfortable that he let his guard down and revealed a secret. Russell H: [subtitled to Mick] Last year I made $1.7 million. I own an oil company in Houston. Monica: I'm surprised that you want to put me on the jury. I can make or break you on the jury. Russell H: [subtitled] I don't think so. Monica: [subtitled] I mean, Natalie already told me that you make lots of money. Not Natalie, but uh... Jaison told me you're a multi-millionaire already. I'm voting based on need. Who needs the money. Jeff Probst: Brett, things have really changed, haven't they? Brett: Yeah I would say that, you know, by his gestures he feels pretty comfortable, and as of right now they do have the numbers, but when you get comfortable in this game, things can come haunt you, so you gotta stay humble in this game. Russell H: [answer to TCQ] And that might be my mistake in the game, but I don't think so. My verdict? Downfall. When completely non-entities who skew positivity, like Brett, say something like that, it's likely to come to fruition. Even more interesting? Russell shows no regret in spilling his secret; rather, he continues his hunt for who betrayed him (remember Lex?). Yet, in the preview, it is shown to be a mistake. It's interesting to see that Mick is the only person who has shown true insight into taking out Russell and has yet to be Russell's target; rather, Jaison got painted as the target. Russell is making a mistake: Mick was shown talking poorly of Russell in the shelter, but didn't get punished like Jaison did for jumping the gun, trying to collect jury votes. Mick is playing under-the-radar, as said in the recap (which was obviously an imporant episode, considering it was shown in the recap), and it's working--he's off Russell's radar. Natalie White: Takes Russell Out or Beats Him In The Jury Vote? There's no denying that Natalie's edit involves beating Russell somehow. Why? Russell: I need somebody that is going to help me to get to the final two. So, I'm going to have to take somebody like Natalie with me. She is going to ride my coat-tails the whole way. She's too stupid to do it by herself, she needs me. So, I can stand up there and say she followed my coat-tails this whole way, she rode me like a horse. Take a look at her first confessional of the season: Natalie: Russell and I talked about, since the first day, being the final two at the end. At this point, I'm like his wingman I guess you can say. I definitely think people underestimate me and I want them to think that it's really smart to take me to the end because they can beat me. You know, use that to my advantage. If it comes down to me or him, I know I can beat Russell at the very end because I would say a lot of other people on the tribe have really been rubbed the wrong way by him. So, I'm just trying to not ruffle feathers, steer clear and build relationships which is what I'm good at. What makes Natalie's statement more important than Russell's is that her confessional came second. If it had been the other way around, it would have left a totally different impression in the minds of the viewers. The possibility of Natalie taking out Russell before the end-game crossed my mind. The fact of the matter is, Natalie continues to be Russell's wingman (as outlined in the recap). She isn't getting confessionals, like Mick or Jaison, of overthrowing him. My verdict? Natalie surprises everyone (including Russell) and gets more votes than him in the end. He counted her out. Her edit has revolved around her relationship with Russell--not winning. There has to be Final 3 this season--not a Final 2, so both of their confessionals discount the presence of a third party. Natalie has a story, Natalie has jury ties, and Natalie has an end-game connection. Some can mistake that for winning, but we know her edit has been poor. If Natalie's story is about beating Russell in jury votes, but only getting 2nd place, having jury ties, and an end-game connection would be necessary anyways. Her not winning would make sense, but her losing to Russell wouldn't make sense--thus, she will beat him. Jaison Robinson: Winner's Story or Personal Growth Story? Jaison: You can talk about kicking somebody out of the house but you have to win the challenges. I was upset when she said it was like taking candy from a baby but you don't prove it here, you don't prove it by yelling at somebody. You prove it by beating the other team, period. Jaison: What happened at Tribal Council was me trying to let Ben know how I felt. I cannot handle people who use phrases that are meant to hurt on a very basic level. I'm hungry and I'm tired. I came here to have an adventure but I, right now, believe that me coming here was the worst decision I have made in my entire life. Jaison: I used to watch this cartoon when I was growing up called Captain Planet (?)… I'm tired, I'm hungry and I'm sitting here in a battle that seems to be a battle that fate just doesn't want us to win." -from panurge's thread: Natalie joined Jaison in the shelter and asked if he thought they would have won that challenge. Jaison answered: "How many of us actually have a shot at getting real far? <note the random shots of Russell and Mick> This whole tribe could be done by day 21 at the rate we're going." Natalie replied: "I don't know about that. I think it can be done. I think it can be done. People could flip over there." Jaison: I have no idea what's going to happen with this vote tonight. I did not perform well on the puzzle…I felt like dead-weight to the team. For all I know, they could be voting me out." Jaison: I feel I have a large responsibility in these losses…If they decide that my performance today warrants me to walk away, I hope that is what is necessary for them to win tomorrow." My verdict? Jaison proves something to himself. Like Crystal said during the Gabon Finale, she wasn't used to losing--it was "humbling". Jaison's story pre-merge was about proving himself via fighting prejudice, but also giving up because he couldn't handle the elements. The water polo story has come up in three different episodes. He's used to dealing with tough conditions, but nothing pails in comparison to SURVIVOR. Even as a competitor, Jaison feels responsible for the losses. Many times we've seen Jaison making mistakes, awknowledging them, and growing as a person. He's referred to his dad a couple of times. To me, his story is about proving something to not only himself, but his father. Kenny and Cirie grew as people, but they lost. Late jurors get this edit. His story continues to be an uphill battle to prove something to himself. Kathy, Cirie, Kenny, and MicroAmanda all turned very CP after the merger. Jaison's mention of jury votes this week would have been golden for his edit if that scene didn't come back to haunt him as a mistake later in the episode. His pre-merge was too volatile for a winner, unfortunately. Redemption, yes, but not for the win. Some confessionals pre-merge just should have been left out. He's way too up and down, and should now be our late-game "Can Jaison make it?" for the viewers. Screams Micronesia Amanda, to me. Shambo Waters: Will She Face The Jury? My verdict? Nope. I thought that Shambo facing the jury was definitely going to happen after the last couple of episodes, but this week confirmed everything but. She's our Courtney Marit to Russell's Shane: too many people see that she'd be a perfect Final 3 goat. Sugar being in the Finals was barely talked about, but it was inevitable. Shambo, if she was in the Finals, wouldn't have so much SPV about being IN the finals and being beatable. Courtney Marit was ridiculously indecisive, and the edit has been everything to that: Shambo is unpredictable and plays personally. Shambo going on the backburner this episode told me she's not in the Finals--if she was, they'd continue with the ridiculous high-visibility overpowering edit of silliness, I think. To me, she settled down this week (I went with MOR3). Could Mick and Jaison be our Aras and Cirie? Natalie our Danielle? With so much concern with Shambo, they may just decide to pull the plug on Russell's puppets, as he slowly loses power... Brett Clouser: ? Radar does not detect this player. My verdict? Editors are meanies. Mick Trimming: China Amanda or Winner? I'll keep this one short, for the sake of sanity. Alright, here's the scenerio: Mick doesn't win. If so, knowing how painfully boring Mick is, why the pre-merge edit? Some say it's because he was elected the leader, alright. Let's forget about Episode 1 then. Why the following ratings? MOR4 - CP4 - MOR3 - MOR3 - MOR3 - MOR2. Why not shaft him? I just wonder, that's all... Here's something that worries me: Amanda got the exact edit in the merge as Mick is now in China. Todd was her ally, as defined early in the season, and she started doubting him a few episodes before the Finale, but never did anything. She never made her move. Will Mick? I doubt he will. Where do their edits differ? The pre-merge: Amanda's was full of UTRs. Mick didn't get a single one. Sure, he got his after the first-ever 12-person merge, but we all know where I stand on that! Do we consider the recap? I'm not sure, now that a scene was in the "Previously On..." section. If we do, Mick had a juicy CP3. Natalie had a UTR1. Russell had an OTTN5. Shambo had an OTTM5. Jaison was probably OTTP2. Mick mentions visualizing the million bucks. Remember when Amber did that exactly ("taste the money") 2 episodes before the Finale? Remember when Parvati mentioned the million bucks 2 episodes before the Finale? We are now 2 episodes from the finale. Pattern? One could argue that Jaison spoke about the jury 2 episodes before the finale, which Parvati did specifically, but Jaison's strategizing backfired. He got caught. Others may think it doesn't matter that he got caught, because he still said it. To each their own. This episode discussed the jury and the win a lot. Monica threatens Russell with jury votes. Jaison says that it's at the point where you need to think about jury votes (perhaps his confessional was more foreshadowing at Russell forgetting that the jury votes for the winner, rather than anything significant for Jaison). Mick mentioned visualizing the million dollars--they're close. My verdict? Mick wins. I've thought so 25 minutes into the first episode, and I've ceased to waver. He's hit all the right notes for me. Consider the circumstance, as I always say. We've got uberpersonality Russell. We've got the fall of Galu. We've got a boring guy who isn't really doing anything. Danni to Stephenie? Aras to Shane? Ethan to Lex? or Amanda to Todd? The ball is in your court. Vote wisely, Edgic. Last Edited By: BlakeB717 12/12/09 12:23 AM. Edited 2 times.
MasterDarkNinja		#4726	[-]
Posts: 2945 (12/11/09 06:47 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	scepticA wrote: Well, J, how big a surprise would it be right now? the whole meme of tonight's episode was: RH is a great player, RH is unstoppable, Wow, is RH amazing. He's so dangerous... Frankly, I saw almost zero doubt this ep. It seemed almost the opposite: His win is inevitable. But that has been the meme the whole season. Which is why he's so anti-edgic. Being a boot target isn't doubt? Having people talk about getting rid of Russell isn't doubt? I thought the second vote was pretty suspenseful when it was being read. But to those who imply that doubt about even making it to the F2/F3 isn't 'edgic' doubt, or doesn't count for Russell, I quote the guidelines. 8) The ending is typically set up to be a somewhat of a 'surprise'. You either don't expect the winner or second place to be there. These two are often manipulated in the editing to make each look like they have a chance to win.
MasterDarkNinja		#4727	[-]
Posts: 2946 (12/11/09 07:06 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	scepticA wrote: And the concept of this being a bad season edit-wise is something a lot of us believe. RH gave them editing gold from the get-go so much so that a huge chunk of the players were not simply edgically eliminated but virtually unknown for many episodes. These people are selected because they're Type-A extroverts for the most part, and admittedly every now and then you get someone who crawls into a shell when they play the game, but I find it ludicrous to think that there were only 3 or 4 interesting people out there. If that's the case, their selection process failed miserably. They have 24/7 records of what they all do, and to think the sole interesting story arc was RH's (and in 2nd place, Shambo) is silly. This was the RH show - not because Jaison or Natalie or Dave are unlikeable or uninteresting, but because of a conscious editing decision to make this OTTN person the sole star of the season. And sorry, but if his final rating is anything but that we're missing something. He has no complexity - despite some good strategic moves - at all. His edit portrays him as a deliberately annoying, cruel person who revels in insulting his fellow players Every Frigging Episode. We aren't supposed to like OTTN. They succeeded. Umm.... yeah, 9 CP's and 2 OTT's as of last episode, and Russell is an OTTN edit and character? The fact is Russell has given them OTTN footage countless times (read exit interviews & watch insider videos), but they've chosen not to use all of it, in order to keep him a CPN character. Also since when has Russell been portrayed as annoying? Maybe some people here are sick of seeing so much of Russell each episode (I've seen quite a few comments saying basically that in edgic this season), but the fact is the editors haven't included a single scene intended to paint Russell as annoying, nor has a single person ever said on the show that Russell is annoying. Also getting back to the difference between OTTN and CPN. The fact is OTTN yes we aren't supposed to like, but CPN characters we're often supposed to respect for their game, even if we don't like them. OTTN characters have never won, but CPN characters have won even though we didn't like them.
GretchenIsMyGod	Oh right	#4728	[-]
Posts: 3182 (12/11/09 07:07 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I haven't read any posts on here this season, and I only watched the 1st episode and the recap this season, so I don't really know what I'm talking about, but I'm just going to go ahead and edgic-guess Jaison, whom I picked after the recap .
craig		#4729	[-]
Posts: 16641 (12/11/09 07:31 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I personally loved Monica this episode, but I think that her confessional right after the second IC solidifies what the editors were presenting to the audience - Monica was upset that Brett (the P character of the episode) won IC because now she's gone. I thought her scrambling was epic and I love that she may the girl who prevented Russell from a million, but all in all it really was N. 'Tis a pity. Weird all the "I liked Monica but" ratings. Liked you've been brainwashed that we're supposed to hate Galu, even when they're the underdog. Reminds of some of the "I hate Steph but she can't be N, she's the heroine" rationaliztion w gotr during S11. Monica strategized unselfishly to save Dave - something we didn't see Brett doing. After Brett won the IC Monica merely recognized that she was the target - wasn't pissed at Brett or anything. Monica had about the perfect attitude for someone leaving. Fighting to save themselves, playing the game, but treating it as a game and enjoying it.
Kitty Pryde1		#4730	[-]
Posts: 11016 (12/11/09 07:34 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Semi finale: Ads vs. People Remove this ad I liked Monica BECAUSE she was a negative bitch. Had she been positive, I wouldn't have given a shit about her this episode.
kishuu		#4731	[-]
Posts: 2850 (12/11/09 08:02 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Kitty Pryde1 wrote: I liked Monica this episode BECAUSE she was a negative bitch. Had she been positive, I wouldn't have given a shit about her this episode. This. She was N. Just like Laura. CPN. The P character of the ep was Brett and not Monica. Natalie was UTR or INV, I don't give a crap about the rating. As for winner pick, I say Russell/Nat (Nat being a very very very distant second). Yes it's not edgic at all but really, nobody left has a good edgic edit.
JaimeCat22		#4732	[-]
Posts: 168 (12/11/09 08:29 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	kishuu wrote: Yes it's not edgic at all but really, nobody left has a good edgic edit. It says a lot about the state of edgic that 90% of the people posting in the thread aren't even pretending to do edgic anymore.
scepticA		#4733	[-]
Posts: 1848 (12/11/09 09:03 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	MDN, because there is no real edgic concept of full-season rating, we can all make a case for what it is. It is not a simple median of the player's single - ep ratings from where I stand. I look on it the way you would create the rating for any given ep, to wit: A single ep rating is our code for the answer to the question you'd ask of a fan of the show - "So, what did you think of Jaison this episode?" They'd talk about how much they saw him, whether he was good or bad or interesting or weird or confused or smart, etc. And we distill that response down to "MORP3" or whatever. I look at the season rating as akin to the same question, but asked of the entire season: "So, what did you think of Jaison on S19?" and listen to the answer. That's why IMO someone can quite easily have a different rating than a simple tally of previous ratings. I truly don't care how many OTTs or CPs or MORs a single player got, especially the consensus. I hope no one else does, either. I ask myself, so what do I think of (enter person who is no longer in the game), and that's it. So I ask - what overall complexity is there to RH's edit? He has sung the same tune the whole season: I'm brilliant, everyone else is a dope, I've got 'em in the palm of my hands, if they cross me they're toast. And when things don't seem to go his way he really doesn't waver much from this tune. There is no depth to his edit. Oh, and when he sabotaged others, how would you describe it? when he says how dumb X is for the nth time, how would you describe it? Perhaps some might call it endearing. I think the editors were going out of their way to make this verse of his tune particularly annoying, and this quality was exacerbated by how frequently he said it. Okay, dude. We get it. I truly think his overall edit so far (and I say - so far... He might give mouth-to-mouth-to a puppy next week) is truly OTT. In fact, he's one of the most OTT players ever. And I fully concede he might win. Heck, his fans on this thread have been saying this as if it was their mantra the whole season: If an OTT (N) player was going to win Survivor, THIS is how he'd be edited! I agree. That's all.
craig		#4734	[-]
Posts: 16646 (12/11/09 09:31 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I liked Monica this episode BECAUSE she was a negative bitch. Had she been positive, I wouldn't have given a shit about her this episode. Trust your own reactions more. It's the same with picling Mick ... most think he'd be a really sucky, bland, flat wnner (just like Marcus when he was considered a shoe in), yet you've convinced yourself that because of some editng formula he ought to win. When the average viewer would probably find him least satisfying of the Foa 4.
JaimeCat22		#4735	[-]
Posts: 171 (12/11/09 09:39 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	If viewer satisfaction was the guideline for picking a winner, Jenna, Vecepia, Aras, and a bunch of other winners would have been out of contention.
SFC		#4736	[-]
Posts: 853 (12/11/09 09:51 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	That was when Survivors ratings were REALLY good. They could pull that stuff off, but now with not that great of numbers. At least for the past 6 seasons. THey want the winner to be liked, if not respected because if they deliver a bad winner they could lose viewers.
Joss Wolfe		#4737	[-]
Posts: 1202 (12/11/09 09:58 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Monica = Coby Archa, on his boot episode. Came off as an extremely sore loser, and when she left it was like, Bitch! Good riddance
Oowatanite		#4738	[-]
Posts: 9691 (12/11/09 11:56 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	JaimeCat22 wrote: kishuu wrote: Yes it's not edgic at all but really, nobody left has a good edgic edit. It says a lot about the state of edgic that 90% of the people posting in the thread aren't even pretending to do edgic anymore. THIS
getting real		#4739	[-]
Posts: 1962 (12/12/09 01:26 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Blake said, among other things: "How many of us actually have a shot at getting real far? Loved your work, Blake. There's a lot of work there. Good luck with the prediction. But you don't have to worry. I don't expect to go very far in any case.
BlakeB717		#4740	[-]
Posts: 2563 (12/12/09 01:30 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Semi finale: Ads vs. People Remove this ad Of course you'll go far, getting real! You're a mastermind! You don't need any idols to help you out... cough Thanks for reading. I figured I'd give it a shot. It's a lot of writing, but hey... may be more useful than the usual "YOU'RE SO FUCKING STUPID I WANNA SMACK YOU" :) Nice to know that someone gave it a read!

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S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)