S-19 Edgic (editing and logic) in Survivor Speculation Forum

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S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)

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chapera rocks		#4881	[-]
Posts: 12233 (12/15/09 02:25 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Fat free Internet Remove this ad Kitty Pryde1 wrote: Monica was by no means positive, given just how hateful most reactions to her in this episode were. No one was cheering for her, and liberal use of the word "bitch" was used. The negative SPV was from Russell and no one else. We were supposed to be cheering for her and hoping she'd take down Russell. How is that in any way N? She was bitchy, but she was bitching at the villain who was OTTN. We were meant to think Russell was a jerk for saying things like "little bitch" and "stupid little girl".
cantthinkofaname		#4882	[-]
Posts: 1631 (12/15/09 02:29 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	chapera rocks wrote: Kitty Pryde1 wrote: Monica was by no means positive, given just how hateful most reactions to her in this episode were. No one was cheering for her, and liberal use of the word "bitch" was used. The negative SPV was from Russell and no one else. We were supposed to be cheering for her and hoping she'd take down Russell. How is that in any way N? She was bitchy, but she was bitching at the villain who was OTTN. We were meant to think Russell was a jerk for saying things like "little bitch" and "stupid little girl". I think you might get taken more seriously if you had a different avatar.
BlakeB717		#4883	[-]
Posts: 2626 (12/15/09 02:36 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I personally thought she was neutral. She was just trying to save her ass, stirred up trouble. No real tone intent, IMHO. I definitely don't see P though, she was overly cackly at TC.. she was labelled as "on par" with Russell's level of strategy, which would be N. I'd go with Mixed or Neutral... preferrably neutral.
craig		#4884	[-]
Posts: 16659 (12/15/09 03:14 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Tone Monica Padilla NN (0%), N (18.8%), neutral (12.5%) mixed (25%) , P (43.8%), PP (0%)(note: 4 out of 6 neutral votes were for dynamic) Close Call Decision I agree with Warrior and FLF here - Monica is P. I gave my reasons Thursday night, and see no rean to change. If Russell is OTTN and Brett is MORP, why shouldn't the main Galu underdog protagonist be P too. It's been siad "she was just trying to save herself" - but actually she was working to save Dave in the first half. Very refreshiong to see somebody play hard and go out with smile. At Sucks, a lot of people who were anti or meh on Monica had a better opinion of her after the episode, but nobody swing the other way.
getting real		#4885	[-]
Posts: 1977 (12/15/09 05:26 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	BlakeB717 wrote: It's striking that Natalie has been UTR for 8/12 episodes and has 21%! You're doing that ad hominem thing again, Blake. I, for one, have tried to explain Natalie's UTRness many times. Once again, in essence, being UTR in this season of off-the-charts Russellness, is a GOOD thing. Much in the same way that not being strategic in Gabon was the ideal edit. On the other hand, Natalie has it all over Mick in several respects. She has tone, she has an established story, she has more jury ties, more threads leading into FTC and more manipulation. She is more UTR than Mick but not at the extreme end, and for the reasons stated, this is a season for being deliberately edited UTR. You might not agree but sneering at the opinions of others doesn't do your arguments any favors. Also, in my view, re. Monica's tone: Although she obviously had P aspects to her edit, there were enough whining-like moments and hints that she was going about things in a counter-productive way to warrant M. Last Edited By: getting real 12/15/09 05:59 AM. Edited 1 times.
AveryC		#4886	[-]
Posts: 125 (12/15/09 06:30 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Episode 3 just aired in Australia so I took the oppurtunity to watch it and noted something in the Mick Fire scene. I don't know how to do screencaps but whilst Mick is striking the flint with help from Ben and Ben's confessional is being said, there's a completely random shot of Natalie inserted which had nothing to do with what was going on at the time. After that, Mick made the fire sucessfully (at least I think so, I got distracted at that point). Plus we hadn't even met Natalie in proper at this point. Could we get a fire tiebreaker at the Final Four with Mick beating Natalie to make the Final Three? ETA: Whoops, turns out that Mick didn't start fire after all. Maybe it's the opposite way round then? That would give us Natalie, Russell and probably Jaison/Shambo. I'm supporting Jaison edgically with Mick second place. Last Edited By: AveryC 12/15/09 06:37 AM. Edited 1 times.
zzzazzzazzz		#4887	[-]
Posts: 1107 (12/15/09 06:36 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	getting real wrote: BlakeB717 wrote: It's striking that Natalie has been UTR for 8/12 episodes and has 21%! Once again, in essence, being UTR in this season of off-the-charts Russellness, is a GOOD thing. Much in the same way that not being strategic in Gabon was the ideal edit. On the other hand, Natalie has it all over Mick in several respects. She has tone, she has an established story, she has more jury ties, more threads leading into FTC and more manipulation. She is more UTR than Mick but not at the extreme end, and for the reasons stated, this is a season for being deliberately edited UTR. So, different rules (will have to be/are now being) created for each season to whether a person's edit is favorable or not?
getting real		#4888	[-]
Posts: 1978 (12/15/09 07:05 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	zzzazzzazzz wrote: getting real wrote: BlakeB717 wrote: It's striking that Natalie has been UTR for 8/12 episodes and has 21%! Once again, in essence, being UTR in this season of off-the-charts Russellness, is a GOOD thing. Much in the same way that not being strategic in Gabon was the ideal edit. On the other hand, Natalie has it all over Mick in several respects. She has tone, she has an established story, she has more jury ties, more threads leading into FTC and more manipulation. She is more UTR than Mick but not at the extreme end, and for the reasons stated, this is a season for being deliberately edited UTR. So, different rules (will have to be/are now being) created for each season to whether a person's edit is favorable or not? Sigh... as long as the basic philosophy of edgic is adhered to (trending towards the middle on all indicators), the guidelines are flexible enough to use all the analytical tools at your disposal. Basically, I see Edgic as a tool of elimination. The way I see it, Edgic's philosophy has eliminated all but Natalie, Mick and Jaison. I would personally also eliminate Jaison for reasons stated earlier. That leaves Natalie and Mick. Natalie has by far the more meat in her edit. It doesn't take rocket surgery to see where I'm coming from. You mightn't agree with it, which is fine also.
Kitty Pryde1		#4889	[-]
Posts: 11071 (12/15/09 07:16 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I'm talking about the viewer reaction to Monica. No one thought she was positive except her pre-existing fanbase. She came off as extremely smug and naive at tribal council, and overall, was bitchy.
Better Than Most		#4890	[-]
Posts: 37 (12/15/09 08:23 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Fat free Internet Remove this ad Kitty Pryde1 wrote: I'm talking about the viewer reaction to Monica. No one thought she was positive except her pre-existing fanbase. She came off as extremely smug and naive at tribal council, and overall, was bitchy. How are you measuring viewer reaction? Anyway, this is about editing intent, right? Had they wanted to make her look naive, they could have told the audience she was going home and had no chance to boot Russell, so that she would look like someone pissing everyone off for no reason; instead they made it look like she had a fighting chance, so she was simply going down swinging. Had they wanted to make her look bitchy, they could have included eye rolls, exasperated looks, etc. from the other castaways; instead we get knowing glances between Mick and Jaison that say, Hey, maybe Monica's right. Maybe you had a negative reaction, but I don't see any evidence that this was the editor's intent.
Kitty Pryde1		#4891	[-]
Posts: 11072 (12/15/09 08:36 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Better Than Most wrote: Kitty Pryde1 wrote: I'm talking about the viewer reaction to Monica. No one thought she was positive except her pre-existing fanbase. She came off as extremely smug and naive at tribal council, and overall, was bitchy. How are you measuring viewer reaction? Anyway, this is about editing intent, right? Had they wanted to make her look naive, they could have told the audience she was going home and had no chance to boot Russell, so that she would look like someone pissing everyone off for no reason; instead they made it look like she had a fighting chance, so she was simply going down swinging. Had they wanted to make her look bitchy, they could have included eye rolls, exasperated looks, etc. from the other castaways; instead we get knowing glances between Mick and Jaison that say, Hey, maybe Monica's right. Maybe you had a negative reaction, but I don't see any evidence that this was the editor's intent. I'm talking about my family's reaction, the reactions of pretty much anyone reviewing the episode, and the fact that I only liked Monica this episode BECAUSE she was being a negative bitch.
Mypoody2		#4892	[-]
Posts: 10761 (12/15/09 10:21 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Rewatching some episodes something stuck out at me. Episode 9's recap at the beginning of the episode, jeff made sure to point out that Natalie was the one to get Erik out. He mentioned it twice that Natalie successfully helped Foa Foa overtake Galu. Just something I thought I'd mention. =)
RobVanStratus		#4893	[-]
Posts: 9586 (12/15/09 10:25 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I personally thought Monica was OTTN. One note negative tone, all about stirring up the drama in camp. She might have been complex if she kept her thoughts from TC in a confessional, but instead she spilled everything at TC that she was stirring things up just to stir them up. She was labeled a bitch several times and while Russell is a N character, that does not mean he cannot give N SPV. Randy was a hugely negative character yet he was able to have his SPV on Sugar count for a N against her in his boot episode. I think it's funny that Russell does the same thing Monica does but keeps it to himself so no one figures out his strategy and he's OTTN in the premiere, but Monica stirs up the shit and tells everyone she is doing it just to ruffle feathers before she leaves and she is CPP. No one was rooting for her except delusional fantards of Monica. Until I read here that people thought she was positive, I was under the impression that she was thought as a raging bitch for the last episode.
Kitty Pryde1		#4894	[-]
Posts: 11075 (12/15/09 10:31 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	RobVanStratus wrote: I personally thought Monica was OTTN. One note negative tone, all about stirring up the drama in camp. She might have been complex if she kept her thoughts from TC in a confessional, but instead she spilled everything at TC that she was stirring things up just to stir them up. She was labeled a bitch several times and while Russell is a N character, that does not mean he cannot give N SPV. Randy was a hugely negative character yet he was able to have his SPV on Sugar count for a N against her in his boot episode. I think it's funny that Russell does the same thing Monica does but keeps it to himself so no one figures out his strategy and he's OTTN in the premiere, but Monica stirs up the shit and tells everyone she is doing it just to ruffle feathers before she leaves and she is CPP. No one was rooting for her except delusional fantards of Monica. Until I read here that people thought she was positive, I was under the impression that she was thought as a raging bitch for the last episode. Exactly. She's an underdog bby circumstance, not by edit. What in the edit were we supposed to root for her for? Her cackling and giggling at tribal council, where she was getting voted out?
Werwanderflugen		#4895	[-]
Posts: 299 (12/15/09 12:15 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I'm definitely on the "Monica is Neutral" train. While yes, I appreciate her valiant effort things up, that enforces the CP more than any P. Yes, Russell was N this episode, but it's still an N that people across the nation are rooting for to make it to the end. Had Monica's plan worked, people would respect her, but they wouldn't have liked her. I think her edit could be seen as either P or N depending on how you look at it, but it definitely wasn't both. Neutral, please?
chapera rocks		#4896	[-]
Posts: 12234 (12/15/09 12:40 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	cantthinkofaname wrote: chapera rocks wrote: Kitty Pryde1 wrote: Monica was by no means positive, given just how hateful most reactions to her in this episode were. No one was cheering for her, and liberal use of the word "bitch" was used. The negative SPV was from Russell and no one else. We were supposed to be cheering for her and hoping she'd take down Russell. How is that in any way N? She was bitchy, but she was bitching at the villain who was OTTN. We were meant to think Russell was a jerk for saying things like "little bitch" and "stupid little girl". I think you might get taken more seriously if you had a different avatar. Please, I've given Monica three N's and a UTR when the consensus was MOR. I'm talking about my family's reaction, the reactions of pretty much anyone reviewing the episode, and the fact that I only liked Monica this episode BECAUSE she was being a negative bitch. This varies quite a bit. The three people I was watching with did not like Monica before this episode but became minor fans for going down swinging and giving Russell crap (and they're even starting to like Russell). Last Edited By: chapera rocks 12/15/09 12:46 PM. Edited 1 times.
Us Kids Know		#4897	[-]
Posts: 11567 (12/15/09 12:42 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I hated Monica before this episode and now she's my 3rd favorite of the season ~
SuperSmizeMe		#4898	[-]
Posts: 28 (12/15/09 12:46 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I thought Blake was gone for the rest of the season? That didn't last long
astroline		#4899	[-]
Posts: 2929 (12/15/09 12:50 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	That's a good point by Kitty, that she was an underdog by circumstance and not by edit. We knew she was fighting hard to survive and we respect that, but it wasn't effective and she wasn't even shown any sympathy. She's essentially P in our minds because of the N actions that we enjoyed watching. I had voted CPP4, but out of the close call options, I have to go with M because based on how we felt and what the edit actually intended, it could go either way, but she sure as hell was NOT toneless.
MasterDarkNinja		#4900	[-]
Posts: 2956 (12/15/09 02:00 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Fat free Internet Remove this ad Phoenix1269 wrote: Edgic Winners Percentage of winner votes received 28.57% - Mick Trimming 28.57% - Russell Hantz 21.43% - Jaison Robinson 21.43% - Natalie White 0.00% - Brett Clouser 0.00% - Shannon Waters For a second when I saw those numbers and was recording them on my edgic chart I thought you were reposting last week's numbers by mistake Phoenix. I've never seen not one, but THREE people get the exact same percentage of the winner vote that they did last week. The only numbers to change are Jaison's and Brett's, with the Brett voter switching to Jaison. By my math that means we have 4 Mick supporters, 4 Russell supporters, 3 Natalie supporters, and 3 Jaison supporters. Maybe we should make the edgic chart start reflecting vote ties better, like put #1 in blue, #2 in red, #3 in green, #4 in MORPish pink, I mean it's very misleading to say for 2 weeks in a row that Mick is still Edgic's #1 pick when he was tied with Russell, yet it's also misleading to say Russell is edgic's #1 pick. Those edgic loser votes sure show reactionary some people are to eliminating Foa Foa's based on the latest episode, I mean Russell had the fewest people eliminating him last week (in the high 20's percent), now he has just over 50% eliminating him. Last Edited By: MasterDarkNinja 12/15/09 02:04 PM. Edited 1 times.

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S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)