S-19 Edgic (editing and logic) in Survivor Speculation Forum

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S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)

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getting real

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Posts: 1979

(12/15/09 04:12 PM)

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If at first you don't succeed; call it version 1.0
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By my math that means we have 4 Mick supporters, 4 Russell supporters, 3 Natalie supporters, and 3 Jaison supporters.

I'd love to make the acquaintance of the other two as sometimes I feel I'm up against the world around here!

Mypoody said:

Rewatching some episodes something stuck out at me. Episode 9's recap at the beginning of the episode, jeff made sure to point out that Natalie was the one to get Erik out. He mentioned it twice that Natalie successfully helped Foa Foa overtake Galu. Just something I thought I'd mention. =)

Yes, Mypoody, there's been enough manipulation over that to suggest that it's the key moment of the season. We are likely meant to remember it as:

Natalie being more strategic than Mick or Jaison (whose idea it apparently was in real life) at the turning point of the game.
Natalie working the women to her immediate and long-term (jury vote) advantage)
Russell foolishly delegating the social interaction work to her, leading to his eventual downfall.
a microcosmic representation of Russell not believing she could do it ('I don't think you did it. I know you think you did it.'). But he turns out to underestimate her and the women he has dis-respected from the beginning.

McPhever224

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(12/15/09 04:12 PM)

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I personally think that we were supposed to be rooting for Monica to stay, hence my vote for as P. She was shown as being on the same level strategically as the "mastermind" of the season, Russell. And only got negative SPV from Russell. None of the people who have said she was N, have given real reasons, other than her bitchiness? Which in my opinion wasn't even there, she was just happy about playing the game...

HagridOfTheDeep

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Posts: 7

(12/15/09 05:21 PM)

I would call her N, because this whole season we've been meant to root for FF (+Shambo) and especially Russell. He's supposed to be the favourite... The guy you love to hate. The guy who's evil. The guy who makes you hope "wow - I wonder if such an assy bastard could actually win this? Let's cheer for him." Galu is a threat to Russell, so if you stir up shit to piss Russell off, you piss the fanbase off... Which in here might be pretty small... But out there, most people love Russell. Fact of the matter is, Monica stirring up shit was not positive. We expected Russell to go crazy when Monica spilled the beans, and so did she. She knew exactly what she was doing. She did it just to cause shit and jeopardize the prospects of the Foa Foa four. She's N.

Last Edited By: HagridOfTheDeep 12/15/09 05:30 PM. Edited 1 times.

chapera rocks

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(12/15/09 06:16 PM)

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HagridOfTheDeep wrote:
I would call her N, because this whole season we've been meant to root for FF (+Shambo) and especially Russell. He's supposed to be the favourite... The guy you love to hate. The guy who's evil. The guy who makes you hope "wow - I wonder if such an assy bastard could actually win this? Let's cheer for him." Galu is a threat to Russell, so if you stir up shit to piss Russell off, you piss the fanbase off... Which in here might be pretty small... But out there, most people love Russell. Fact of the matter is, Monica stirring up shit was not positive. We expected Russell to go crazy when Monica spilled the beans, and so did she. She knew exactly what she was doing. She did it just to cause shit and jeopardize the prospects of the Foa Foa four. She's N.

x 1,000,000

McPhever224

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Posts: 480

(12/15/09 06:51 PM)

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HagridOfTheDeep wrote:
I would call her N, because this whole season we've been meant to root for FF (+Shambo) and especially Russell. He's supposed to be the favourite... The guy you love to hate. The guy who's evil. The guy who makes you hope "wow - I wonder if such an assy bastard could actually win this? Let's cheer for him." Galu is a threat to Russell, so if you stir up shit to piss Russell off, you piss the fanbase off... Which in here might be pretty small... But out there, most people love Russell. Fact of the matter is, Monica stirring up shit was not positive. We expected Russell to go crazy when Monica spilled the beans, and so did she. She knew exactly what she was doing. She did it just to cause shit and jeopardize the prospects of the Foa Foa four. She's N.

Wait, do you actually watch survivor? Yes, Foa Foa are the underdogs, but this episode we were NOT supposed to be rooting for Russell. We were supposed to be behind Monica 100% and hoping for Russell and his cockiness to be sent to the jury. Oh and I guess that would make anyone who struggles to stay in the game negative too.

Riliss

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Posts: 6461

(12/15/09 07:02 PM)

Ugly on the inside

You are one of the people who is responsible for, ultimately, the failure of edgic. Democracy doesn't work when your public is uneducated. Please kill yourself.

BlakeB717

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(12/15/09 07:26 PM)

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getting real wrote:

BlakeB717 wrote:
It's striking that Natalie has been UTR for 8/12 episodes and has 21%!

You're doing that ad hominem thing again, Blake. I, for one, have tried to explain Natalie's UTRness many times.

Once again, in essence, being UTR in this season of off-the-charts Russellness, is a GOOD thing. Much in the same way that not being strategic in Gabon was the ideal edit.
On the other hand, Natalie has it all over Mick in several respects. She has tone, she has an established story, she has more jury ties, more threads leading into FTC and more manipulation. She is more UTR than Mick but not at the extreme end, and for the reasons stated, this is a season for being deliberately edited UTR.

You might not agree but sneering at the opinions of others doesn't do your arguments any favors.

Also, in my view, re. Monica's tone: Although she obviously had P aspects to her edit, there were enough whining-like moments and hints that she was going about things in a counter-productive way to warrant M.

I think that the strategy of looking for a very UTR winner when we have such an high-visibility character is a mistake. I really don't understand the inverted edit theory. There shouldn't be a direct correlation between the winner and a high-visibility loser; rather, the presence of a 'visibility hog' should result in lower visibilities for everybody else--it should not result in an ignored winner.

BlakeB717

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(12/15/09 07:30 PM)

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SuperSmizeMe wrote:
I thought Blake was gone for the rest of the season? That didn't last long

Two weeks isn't long? Lol.

getting real

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(12/15/09 07:38 PM)

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Riliss wrote:
You are one of the people who is responsible for, ultimately, the failure of edgic. Democracy doesn't work when your public is uneducated. Please kill yourself.

Your post only contains two lines but carries more substance than reams and reams of verbose text. Here are some of the things I learned just by reading those two lines:

Failure of edgic is the failure of democracy.

Democracy is entirely dependent on education.

(According to the 2009 UN Development Programme Report, Cuba, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Azerbaizan, Russia, Kyrgyztan and Tonga all had higher literacy levels than the USA. According to your theory, that must make them all better functioning democracies).

Individuals are responsible for the failure of Edgic.

Educated, democratically-minded people have the right to order executions, provided they do it politely.

SuperSmizeMe

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Posts: 29

(12/15/09 08:00 PM)

If at first you don't succeed; call it version 1.0
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BlakeB717 wrote:

SuperSmizeMe wrote:
I thought Blake was gone for the rest of the season? That didn't last long

Two weeks isn't long? Lol.

Considering a whole season of Survivor is 14ish episodes... yeah not so long.

And of course the first thing you do is blast Natalie fans again because that's all that functions in your stupid head. I won't make any more remarks on Natalie, but yeah you need to keep it mute.

wallduck

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Posts: 574

(12/15/09 08:15 PM)

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scepticA wrote:
Phoeniz, please explain exactly what MOR Differential is tallying. It says, "sum difference from middle of the road." And the edgic guidelins are somewhat contradictory. they say: "Over the course of the game the winner's presence and visibility should end up closer to the average of all the players. (The winner typically gravitates to near the top in MOR differential, which calculates the closeness to average in presence, tone and ratings)." The latter should actually say, "the low number in MOR differential," because the lower the number the closer the person is to the average. See Yul as an example. Yet the first part of that statement seems to mislead people: "closer to the average of all players" is what MOR Diff is itself measuring! So someone halfway up this list is actually farther away from the average.

Like I said, Phoenix, my head is swimming, especially because we have completely change what is important about MOR diff in the last few years.

You're right that page 1 is ambiguously worded, but there's nothing wrong with your head. Lowest MORD = good.

Phoenix has a theory about the median--rather than the lowest--MORD being the best score for a winner. But it's strictly empirical, based on observations of some MORDs in some seasons. It doesn't make any sense, but since it's empirical it doesn't need to.

Pastordice invented the MORD, placed a lot of faith in it, and used to say, "Trust the numbers." There are two likely reasons why the lowest MORD doesn't always predict the winner anymore. One is garbage in/ garbage out, as in bad ratings. I suspect it's that. But a more interesting possibility is that winners are trending more towards MOR and UTR, which would imply that 1.0, rather than 0, is the ideal MORD for a winner.

But of course if, as expected, Mick or Jaison wins, then the MORD is redeemed (by my definition of redemption, anyway).

Hippochinfat

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Posts: 465

(12/15/09 08:16 PM)

McPhever224 wrote:

HagridOfTheDeep wrote:
I would call her N, because this whole season we've been meant to root for FF (+Shambo) and especially Russell. He's supposed to be the favourite... The guy you love to hate. The guy who's evil. The guy who makes you hope "wow - I wonder if such an assy bastard could actually win this? Let's cheer for him." Galu is a threat to Russell, so if you stir up shit to piss Russell off, you piss the fanbase off... Which in here might be pretty small... But out there, most people love Russell. Fact of the matter is, Monica stirring up shit was not positive. We expected Russell to go crazy when Monica spilled the beans, and so did she. She knew exactly what she was doing. She did it just to cause shit and jeopardize the prospects of the Foa Foa four. She's N.

Wait, do you actually watch survivor? Yes, Foa Foa are the underdogs, but this episode we were NOT supposed to be rooting for Russell. We were supposed to be behind Monica 100% and hoping for Russell and his cockiness to be sent to the jury. Oh and I guess that would make anyone who struggles to stay in the game negative too.

I think we were supposed to see Russell as a cocky douche, AS WELL as see Monica as bitch. I brought this up earlier, but giving Monica P would be like giving Yasmin OTTM (She had some negative SPV that episode) or OTTP, just because she fought against Ben who we were supposed to dislike, but we were supposed to dislike both when they were fighting.

McPhever224

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Posts: 482

(12/15/09 08:33 PM)

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Hippochinfat wrote:

McPhever224 wrote:

HagridOfTheDeep wrote:
I would call her N, because this whole season we've been meant to root for FF (+Shambo) and especially Russell. He's supposed to be the favourite... The guy you love to hate. The guy who's evil. The guy who makes you hope "wow - I wonder if such an assy bastard could actually win this? Let's cheer for him." Galu is a threat to Russell, so if you stir up shit to piss Russell off, you piss the fanbase off... Which in here might be pretty small... But out there, most people love Russell. Fact of the matter is, Monica stirring up shit was not positive. We expected Russell to go crazy when Monica spilled the beans, and so did she. She knew exactly what she was doing. She did it just to cause shit and jeopardize the prospects of the Foa Foa four. She's N.

Wait, do you actually watch survivor? Yes, Foa Foa are the underdogs, but this episode we were NOT supposed to be rooting for Russell. We were supposed to be behind Monica 100% and hoping for Russell and his cockiness to be sent to the jury. Oh and I guess that would make anyone who struggles to stay in the game negative too.
I think we were supposed to see Russell as a cocky douche, AS WELL as see Monica as bitch. I brought this up earlier, but giving Monica P would be like giving Yasmin OTTM (She had some negative SPV that episode) or OTTP, just because she fought against Ben who we were supposed to dislike, but we were supposed to dislike both when they were fighting.

No, because what redeeming qualities did Yasmin have? Monica actually had positivity to her edit. Just because you're at the opposite end of the villain's fight, you're right you shouldn't get a P. Monica's struggle for survival and positive attitude towards the game gives her a P in my book.

cantthinkofaname

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(12/15/09 09:48 PM)

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Although I didn't vote M for Monica (I almost did though), I'm really starting to think that is the appropriate rating due to the disagreement of her tone. I mean, isn't that a new part of the M tone description. But I guess we'll have to find out what Craig, OTH, and flf voted and if they're staying with that vote.

Riliss

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Posts: 6463

(12/15/09 09:48 PM)

Ugly on the inside

and now McGenius here is arguing with a ghostie troll. yay.

SuperSmizeMe

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Posts: 31

(12/15/09 09:55 PM)

I'm not a ghostie. kay? good.

This thread is such a trainwreck... oh and I'm not a troll either.

BlakeB717

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(12/15/09 09:58 PM)

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SuperSmizeMe wrote:
I'm not a ghostie. kay? good.

This thread is such a trainwreck... oh and I'm not a troll either.

He wasn't talking about you, troll.

cantthinkofaname

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Posts: 1633

(12/15/09 10:34 PM)

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cantthinkofaname wrote:
Although I didn't vote M for Monica (I almost did though), I'm really starting to think that is the appropriate rating due to the disagreement of her tone. I mean, isn't that a new part of the M tone description. But I guess we'll have to find out what Craig, OTH, and flf voted and if they're staying with that vote.

Also, how can someone receive a P when their tone average for the episode is only 0.25?

SuperSmizeMe

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Posts: 32

(12/15/09 10:46 PM)

Seriously Blake get over yourself, I knew it was too good to be true that you would stay out of edgic for the rest of the season.

And whatever, my bad.

BlakeB717

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(12/15/09 11:04 PM)

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If at first you don't succeed; call it version 1.0
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cantthinkofaname wrote:

cantthinkofaname wrote:
Although I didn't vote M for Monica (I almost did though), I'm really starting to think that is the appropriate rating due to the disagreement of her tone. I mean, isn't that a new part of the M tone description. But I guess we'll have to find out what Craig, OTH, and flf voted and if they're staying with that vote.

Also, how can someone receive a P when their tone average for the episode is only 0.25?

Yeah I agree. Close calls are meant to be made not soley for the opinion of the watchdog, but rather to give consideration to what everyone else is saying. For example, I thought (and still think) Laura was INV in Episode 5. However, many saw more to her edit and gave UTR. Since I agree that close-calls between INV and UTR1 should result in UTR1, I voted that way.

I hope both OTH and flf take into consideration the tone average before casting their votes.

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S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)