S-19 Edgic (editing and logic) in Survivor Speculation Forum

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S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)

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Werwanderflugen		#4921	[-]
Posts: 300 (12/15/09 11:08 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Click here to break the ad gravity rule. Remove this ad I'm sorry if this is an obvious question, but how would the MORD change if Russell's ratings were taken out of the equation?
scepticA		#4922	[-]
Posts: 1853 (12/15/09 11:08 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	My gosh, I looked again at Blake's posts since his sabbatical (I believe he was on St. Lucia, snorkeling and having a grand old time -- at least, I thought I recognized him climbing one of the Pitons...) and for the life of me didn't see anything remotely harsh or ad hominem. Get a grip, folks. Wallduck, thanks for the stuff about MORD. That's what I recall, and Pastordice was quite smug (in a good, non-blake way) about that number, until one winner had a really mediocre MORD. Then a "good" MORD switched to the middling numbers, and now that is supposed to be the key. Right now, the best (i.e. lowest) MORDs are Mick and Jaison. WHich means MORD is either right or wrong. Which means it's probably not too useful. But those numbers sure are cool! Oh, I thought the whole Monica/Russell thing wasn't necessarily good v. evil. I think the key to the reading of the votes (and probably what the editing was supposed to give us) was when Dave muttered, "... Awesome..." when it looked like RH might have enough votes to do the blue-light shuffle. Does that mean that his adversary was necessarily good or P? Of course not! You can edit so the fight is between an OTTN jerk and a CPneutral-to-N person and root for the lesser of two evils. I wasn't all that much of a fan of Monica, but the editing got me rooting that maybe she got RH gone, simply because I respect good game play. That indicated to me one thing more than any other: the editors did a great job. There was tension and hope/worry to what was essentially the next Pagong. I'd have given her a neutral. Her spunk was driven by frustration and a bit of anger, albeit deserved. The fact that she was just the latest victim of N SPV from RH is meaningless. RH would give N SPV about Moses or Mother Teresa. That's his schtick, and the fact that Monica was the latest to get the taste of his SPVs is almost boring.
Hippochinfat		#4923	[-]
Posts: 466 (12/15/09 11:35 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	McPhever224 wrote: Hippochinfat wrote: McPhever224 wrote: HagridOfTheDeep wrote: I would call her N, because this whole season we've been meant to root for FF (+Shambo) and especially Russell. He's supposed to be the favourite... The guy you love to hate. The guy who's evil. The guy who makes you hope "wow - I wonder if such an assy bastard could actually win this? Let's cheer for him." Galu is a threat to Russell, so if you stir up shit to piss Russell off, you piss the fanbase off... Which in here might be pretty small... But out there, most people love Russell. Fact of the matter is, Monica stirring up shit was not positive. We expected Russell to go crazy when Monica spilled the beans, and so did she. She knew exactly what she was doing. She did it just to cause shit and jeopardize the prospects of the Foa Foa four. She's N. Wait, do you actually watch survivor? Yes, Foa Foa are the underdogs, but this episode we were NOT supposed to be rooting for Russell. We were supposed to be behind Monica 100% and hoping for Russell and his cockiness to be sent to the jury. Oh and I guess that would make anyone who struggles to stay in the game negative too. I think we were supposed to see Russell as a cocky douche, AS WELL as see Monica as bitch. I brought this up earlier, but giving Monica P would be like giving Yasmin OTTM (She had some negative SPV that episode) or OTTP, just because she fought against Ben who we were supposed to dislike, but we were supposed to dislike both when they were fighting. No, because what redeeming qualities did Yasmin have? Monica actually had positivity to her edit. Just because you're at the opposite end of the villain's fight, you're right you shouldn't get a P. Monica's struggle for survival and positive attitude towards the game gives her a P in my book. So anyone who tried to stay in the game gets a P? Let's give Coach a P for trying to get JT and Stephen to vote Erinn on his boot. And what positive attitude towards the game?
BlakeB717		#4924	[-]
Posts: 2634 (12/15/09 11:52 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	My gosh, I looked again at Blake's posts since his sabbatical (I believe he was on St. Lucia, snorkeling and having a grand old time -- at least, I thought I recognized him climbing one of the Pitons...) and for the life of me didn't see anything remotely harsh or ad hominem. Get a grip, folks. Wallduck, thanks for the stuff about MORD. That's what I recall, and Pastordice was quite smug (in a good, non-blake way) about that number, until one winner had a really mediocre MORD. Then a "good" MORD switched to the middling numbers, and now that is supposed to be the key. Lol thanks scep. Lifted my heart with that one... until you said "non-blake way" and swatted it back down. That's the power of a woman for ya! They toy with you
astroline		#4925	[-]
Posts: 2931 (12/15/09 11:54 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Don't remind me about women or men or anything. Myself & my boyfriend just broke up yesterday morning and I've spent the past 2 days moping around and avoiding all humans and I still can't even think of anything worthwhile to add to the discussions in here. It'll probably be the same for the two final episodes this week so I apologize in advance for being useless. Sometimes life just sucks.
Riliss		#4926	[-]
Posts: 6466 (12/16/09 12:26 AM) Ugly on the inside Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Laura is very glad you broke up, and she wants to know if you plan on attending one of her church's programs to help out you confused straight guys.
astroline		#4927	[-]
Posts: 2932 (12/16/09 12:42 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Thanks for the sympathy. And yeah at this point I don't know what to think anymore so sure I'll do it.
gretchensucks		#4928	[-]
Posts: 938 (12/16/09 01:49 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Riliss wrote: Laura is very glad you broke up, and she wants to know if you plan on attending one of her church's programs to help out you confused straight guys. That one made me giggle.
JaMalle		#4929	[-]
Posts: 4847 (12/16/09 02:26 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	awww Astro <3. Don't worry, I LOVE YOU! hahah
craig		#4930	[-]
Posts: 16662 (12/16/09 03:31 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Click here to break the ad gravity rule. Remove this ad Still no strong arguments against Monica being P. (1) "That's a good point by Kitty, that she was an underdog by circumstance and not by edit." Ciricumstance is the biggest determinent of edit. Russell was an OTTN villian at the start, but the circustance of him playing valiantly as an underdog at the merge made him P for awhile. Hell, Steph was P in S10 largely because of the cicumstancxe of being the last Ulong. (2) "I would call her N, because this whole season we've been meant to root for FF (+Shambo) and especially Russell." It's silly to give episode ratings a priori, based on who you think we're supposed to root for overall. Just because we learned to dislike Russ at the start of the game, doesn't mean he can't be P in the Kelly boot episode. (3) "I hope both OTH and flf take into consideration the tone average before casting their votes." Likewise, they should recall that premerge she received several Ns based on flimsy arguments and a flisy majority.
BlakeB717		#4931	[-]
Posts: 2638 (12/16/09 03:32 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	In edgic we don't "hand out" tones to "make up" for previous ones. Thus, my statement still stands: they should look at the 0.25.
Dictatorship		#4932	[-]
Posts: 14098 (12/16/09 05:51 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	astroline wrote: Don't remind me about women or men or anything. Myself & my boyfriend just broke up yesterday morning and I've spent the past 2 days moping around and avoiding all humans and I still can't even think of anything worthwhile to add to the discussions in here. It'll probably be the same for the two final episodes this week so I apologize in advance for being useless. Sometimes life just sucks.
Mypoody2		#4933	[-]
Posts: 10768 (12/16/09 06:20 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I wouldn't laugh Dictator, at least he/she had a relationship which is more than I can say for you.
RobVanStratus		#4934	[-]
Posts: 9592 (12/16/09 06:27 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	craig wrote: Still no strong arguments against Monica being P. (1) "That's a good point by Kitty, that she was an underdog by circumstance and not by edit." Ciricumstance is the biggest determinent of edit. Russell was an OTTN villian at the start, but the circustance of him playing valiantly as an underdog at the merge made him P for awhile. Hell, Steph was P in S10 largely because of the cicumstancxe of being the last Ulong. (2) "I would call her N, because this whole season we've been meant to root for FF (+Shambo) and especially Russell." It's silly to give episode ratings a priori, based on who you think we're supposed to root for overall. Just because we learned to dislike Russ at the start of the game, doesn't mean he can't be P in the Kelly boot episode. (3) "I hope both OTH and flf take into consideration the tone average before casting their votes." Likewise, they should recall that premerge she received several Ns based on flimsy arguments and a flisy majority. Sorry craig but the arguments for her being positive are flimsy. She is simply the token pretty white girl of the season for you to cream your panties over and she acts like a raging bitch in her final episode. It doesn't matter that Russell was negative in the last episode, she still got TONS of negative SPV from him. If in the past negative SPV from hugely negative villains can give someone a negative rating, like Sugar in the Randy boot, that shouldn't change from season to season when you like different pretty young white women. It also seems odd to me that Shambo gets rated OTTN undeservingly but her SPV on Monica helped give her MORN episode 4, but now all of a sudden it doesn't matter that she got negative SPV because it was from the big villain of the season. They should NOT consider old tone that you still disagree with as to why she deserves a P rating. She got negative SPV from people in the past and earned her old negatives. Like you said about giving tone based on old episodes, why should you be giving P ratings to justify old ratings that you disagree with? Look at the intention of the edit, not what you want to see. Monica was labeled a bitch = negative SPV Monica says she just plans on fucking with Russell and Foa Foa = negative Monica admits openly to the other players at TC that she was just fucking with them and knew she was toast = negative Monica cackles openly at TC in an evil manner because she was able to have them running around in chaos = negative Her intentions were all negative, to stir up drama for no reason when she knew she was toast. She also had zero complexity, she was just stirring shit up for fun. That is the definition of OTT, a one note character. If she had said what she said at TC in a confessional and not said she was just stirring up shit for fun, she'd have been CP, but definitely not positive. But once she blatantly tells everyone at TC that she was happy with herself for being able to fuck with everyone's heads in the game, she turned herself completely into a negative bitch.
kishuu		#4935	[-]
Posts: 2871 (12/16/09 07:03 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I thought Kitty nailed it when it came to talking about Monica's tone this episode but whatever, Craig, you need to get over your love of Monica and think as a neutral party. The main impact was that she was negative (the main scene for her was TC). But if you think the bits of positivity is enough to counter that, she had a Mixed tone. In no way was she positive throughout the whole ep. That was Brett's edit and not Monica's. Brett was the P underdog. Monica was the N underdog. I thought it was pretty obvious when they emphasized Laura's 'Stay strong' comment to Brett.
Better Than Most		#4936	[-]
Posts: 39 (12/16/09 09:52 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	RobVanStratus wrote: If in the past negative SPV from hugely negative villains can give someone a negative rating, like Sugar in the Randy boot, that shouldn't change from season to season when you like different pretty young white women. I don't think anyone disagrees with that principle, but this is not analogous to Sugar/Randy. There, Randy was the underdog on his way out, and Sugar needlessly kicked him while he was down. Here, Monica is the underdog trying to scramble. Monica admits openly to the other players at TC that she was just fucking with them and knew she was toast = negative She said no such thing. Her intentions were all negative, to stir up drama for no reason when she knew she was toast. She also had zero complexity, she was just stirring shit up for fun. She said that she was doing whatever she could to avoid getting voted out. She did not say she was doing it just for kicks.
chapera rocks		#4937	[-]
Posts: 12246 (12/16/09 10:34 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I have no problem with the arguments Kitty made, let's get that clear before I post the following. I have a problem with arguments made from a biased source that just make no sense: Monica was labeled a bitch = negative SPV Labeled by an OTTN player. Makes a big difference. Monica says she just plans on fucking with Russell and Foa Foa = negative Nice spin. She said she was going to try and stir it up before she left to have any chance at staying. Monica admits openly to the other players at TC that she was just fucking with them and knew she was toast = negative Again, nice spin. She tried her best to stay, and if she had put a doubt in their heads about trust, she accomplished her goal. What's wrong with instilling doubt? Monica cackles openly at TC in an evil manner because she was able to have them running around in chaos = negative Having Russell run around in chaos, which was giving him a taste of his own medicine. It showed he could dish it out but couldn't take it. Why the neutral when Shambo cackled? That is the most clear cut N there could ever be; it was a manipulated cackle that was totally out of context to make Shambo look bad. Monica very well could be M or even N (I still think P), but not for these reasons stated which are twisted and don't make any sense.
Hippochinfat		#4938	[-]
Posts: 468 (12/16/09 11:34 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Shambo didn't get a neutral when she cackled, she got an N, so that was detrimental to your argument. At least change your avatar before arguing to give Monica a P tone, lol.
chapera rocks		#4939	[-]
Posts: 12248 (12/16/09 11:46 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Hippochinfat wrote: Shambo didn't get a neutral when she cackled, she got an N, so that was detrimental to your argument. At least change your avatar before arguing to give Monica a P tone, lol. 1. RVS was arguing that Shambo deserved a neutral that episode. Using that argument was meant to showcase his bias. 2. Everyone has their favourites, whether or not they have them in their avatar. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. 3. I've given Monica three N's and a UTR when the majority gave MOR. 4. Try again.
scepticA		#4940	[-]
Posts: 1854 (12/16/09 01:30 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Click here to break the ad gravity rule. Remove this ad I think Monica was most likely mixed. She was quite emotional, frustrated that she knew the target was on her back, got the OTTN dude scared and flustered, and tried to break up the Foas with some pretty good arguments. I was never a fan of hers, but totally respected what she was trying to do. Even at TC Russell basically said he respected what she was doing also. M doesn't necessarily mean a bunch of N and a bunch of P. It can also mean playing emotionally throughout, not hiding how you're feeling. When she lost the TC she was pissed and upset because she knew she was the likely boot. Face it - if that happened to you, you'd also probably feel pissed and upset. The difference was, she showed it. She smiled and cackled (sort of!) at TC, and when she was trying to convince Jaison/Mick she was sober and rational. Basically, she was a person who simply displayed her feelings with no pretense of hiding them. Whether this is P or N is almost irrelevant (heck, she was booted), but she was also not hiding a damn thing. This full-bore display of good, bad, anger, glee, frustration, and hope seems somewhat disconcerting to us on this board. I simply saw it as a person with no defenses or barriers left. Definitely M.

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S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)