I'll post the next write-up in about an hour, enough time for you to crack this clue wide open:
Nowhere to go,
Trapped with a foe,
And what do you know?
Your wish made it so!

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Oaf |
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Katy, I agree that it was a great episode, but I also think that the 50 above it are great as well.
I'll post the next write-up in about an hour, enough time for you to crack this clue wide open: Nowhere to go, Trapped with a foe, And what do you know? Your wish made it so! |
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Katy Carney |
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ANDand19 |
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Oaf |
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Yes, ANDand19 is right on this one, I was indeed talking about...
My 50th least favorite Buffy episode of all time:
Season 6, episode 14. Written by Drew Z. Greenberg.
When the entire cast gets trapped inside the Summers house, hilarity ensues. So much that the writers felt like it would be a swell idea to trap them in the house again, this time for the entire duration of season 7.
Like in season 4, season 6 lets each character drown in their own despair, by never letting them rely on one another for moral support. They never share what's going on in their lives nowadays, unless they're singing about it. So what do you do to make them face their issues? Trap them all inside one house, that's what.
And it worked. Sort of.
Let's see exactly what kind of issues we're dealing with here:
Concerning Buffy and Spike, nothing was really achieved here. Tara takes some jabs at Spike, Buffy kinda ignores her date, and they leave the same way they had entered.
Willow's staying away from magic is tested here, in two ways: she got an 'F' in getting rid of all things wicca, but she got an 'A' in restraining herself from using those things. And Tara took notice. Boy would that lead to them living happily ever after. For about two minutes.
Dawn's stealing problem is also taken care of here, but in the most simplistic way. It goes something like this: DAWN: You do not care for me so I shall steal. BUFFY: Dawn, why are you stealing? Bad! DAWN: I am so alone. BUFFY: Do not worry, for I am here for you from now on. DAWN: My issues are all solved. It's good that they've gotten Dawn's problems out in the open, but they shouldn't have solved them in about two seconds. I would've much preferred a slow, painful build toward solving the problem, not an instant solution ("here's some love to replace your urge to steal stuff").
I guess this is where the episode failed me. I love this kind of stories, where everybody's confined to a small space and thus they have no choice but to face what they've been trying to repress, but it shouldn't be a clean solution - it should be rough and complicated and painful and take time.
Oh, but I thought Clem's skin problem was handled really well. This is what the other storylines should've been like. When it was all said and done, I felt like I've been following his struggle for years.
Best parts:Halfrek recognizing William; Halfrek making her big exit, only to find out that she's stuck inside like the rest of them.
Worst parts:once again, the weekly demon is ridiculous looking and acting. And I thought that Anya was acting out of character, being nastier than usual.
Quality quotes:
BUFFY: (spotting the demon's sword) Ooh, shiny!
And later…
And later…
SPIKE (to Buffy): So, you ever think about *not* celebrating a birthday? Just to try it, I mean.
Room for Debate: Read below and answer- whose side were you on - Willow's or Anya's?
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tomash |
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Oaf wrote: I had almost forgotten about this episode, but I thought it was OK. I was glad to see things starting to get better between Willow and Tara, I know a lot of people don't care for her, but I always found her funny in a kind of understated way. Shame she got killed like 4-5(?)ish episodes later. I pretty much find Dawn insufferable around the middle of season 6 though, so any scene she's in kind of drags the whole thing down for me. I usually don't hate Dawn quite as much as most others do, but I feel like she is probably at her worst around this part of the season IIRC. |
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ANDand19 |
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The only thing this episode was good for was HalfrekGoddess <333
I remember Dawn seeing her guidance counselor in the episode and I was like, "That's the lady with the chopsticks in her hair from Meet the Parents!". Then she was on the porch and said "Wish granted" and morphed her face, and I was like "That's Anya's friend from a couple episodes back!" So I kinda liked those twists, it seemed I really couldn't catch on, but in all other aspects this episode was total FAIL. Especially since it revolved around Dawn. And regarding Willow doing a spell while she was magic-sober, she was gonna go off the deep end sooner or later, so I guess Anya could have been right. |
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myopics |
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I was really excited for Older and Far Away (wtf does the title mean anyway?) when I read the synopsis for this episode. Being trapped in a house with nothing
more than their simmering tension and... oh yeah, a demon sounded like an awesome premise. I was quite disappointed though. It wasn't a bad episode, just
that it squandered a promising plot. After all that build-up, I think the Dawn stealing storyline should have been handled better.
50 from the bottom is just the right spot on this list for the episode IMO. |
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Oaf |
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tomash wrote: I'm with you on this one - Dawn's story seems to be the one with the least amount of thought dedicated to its planning. She steals some random things, than is neglect for the second half of the season, then confronts Buffy at the finale on things we didn't know she was holding inside. All it takes for true character development is little snippets ere and there, and we didn't even get that with her. ANDand19 wrote: The concept was definately the best thing about the episode. To be frank with you, I'm not crazy about the episode's writer, Drew Z. Greenberg - he might be the reason it didn't live up to its potential. myopics wrote: Everything you have written is the correct (and only) way to look at things. Clue for the next episode, in rhymes of course: accept loss in your heart, try to not fall apart, Bring her back? You're a tart! playing god - not so smart. |
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Katy Carney |
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Oaf |
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Oaf |
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My 50th favorite Buffy episode of all time:
Season 5, episode 17. Written by Marty Noxon.
Apparently, one episode is not enough time to mourn the death of Joyce Summers. So they settle for two.
This episode's existence is completely understandable: you can't go from "The Body" straight back to normalsville. "The Body" was the initial shock, without the actual mourning. There was some desperate need of reflecting, and absorbing, and grieving. Unfortunately, and this is from someone who had experienced a similar loss, getting "over" the death of someone dear to you doesn't not make for good T.V.
And Indeed, 95% of "Forever" is like this quiet, uneventful phase you go through once the disbelief wears off. There's planning and adjusting to do, and above all, there's a whole lot of nothing. Because after you've gone through one of the most intense emotional experiences of your life, everything seems to start moving in slow motion: the coffin-picking and the funeral; Dawn's stay at Tara and Willow's; Xander and Anya's conversation in bed; Spike bringing flowers in Joyce's memory; and the most distinguished example: the cross-over with Angel, that was the most mellow, easy-going silent cross-over I have ever seen in my lifetime.
And it's nice that the show takes it's time to get the intended "feel" across. But when that intended feel is, as one might call it, "the boring aftermath of death", it does not make for thrilling storytelling. But then something changes, and the episode takes a turn for the scarier: Dawn would not just accept her mother's passing away. She would find a way to bring her back.
I find the concept of the supernatural messing with people's natural emotional struggles fascinating. Instead of working to solve the problem on the inside, Dawn chooses to try and solve it on the outside, because hey, she "grew" in a world where magic exists and everything is possible. Things aren't as simple, though, because: A) In the buffyverse, magic has consequences of its own, and B) It's easy to get confused by what's real and what isn't in this kind of anything-goes world, and thus you must set some boundaries of your own if you wish to remain sane.
So although Dawn is enamored by the possibility of seeing her mom one more time, she backpedals at the very last second. But the twist is, it's Buffy who couldn't remember the two very important magic rules I had mentioned above, and wanted to get another glimpse at her mommy, the price be damned, because her being composed and in charge was just an act and she has no idea what to do and she needs her mommy.
I consider this moment one of the best, most chilling moments in the show's entire run. When you see Joyce, or whatever it was, getting closer and closer to the house, you get caught in the exact same terror mixed with excitement that Buffy and Dawn are feeling at the thought of what's about to enter the door. And when Dawn (and not Buffy) rips the picture in two, you are overwhelmed with genuine relief mixed with grief. At least that's what happened to me.
So the episode as a whole wasn't something special, but its closing minutes really lift it up for me, all the way to the top 50.
Best part:Doc. Endearingly creepy.
Worst part:The dragon with the eggs, A.K.A. the three-headed inanimate doll. You could practically see the person pulling the strings.
Quality Quote:
ANYA: Mmmm... that was different.
Room for Debate: did anyone read "Pet Semetary"? What do you think of the whole "my loss is so great that I'm willingto bring back anything that resembles my loved one, no matter how awful it is"?
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ANDand19 |
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I actually liked Dawn in this episode. By ripping the picture, she was finally showing some growth.
But this was a rough episode, and not in a bad way. It was just hard to see Buffy break down like that and then open the door to find nothing . It was just very powerful and very well done. |
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tomash |
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I think Forever did what it was supposed to do well, as you said they couldn't just jump to a regular episode after "the body".
It's not the most exciting episode, but except for the whole egg-thing I think it was good. Willow helping Dawn to find out about rasing the dead, even if it's against the wicca "code", shows us that she's starting to push the boundaries on the whole magic-thing, something we see more of in the next season. |
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myopics |
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Oaf wrote:This makes me nervous. I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. Lol. Anyway, Forever <3! Pretty good episode. Personally, I would have ranked it a tad higher, maybe 40th. 50th is a good place for it though. The Buffy/Dawn scene at the end MADE the episode. It dealt with exactly what needed to be dealt with while still managing to set up Buffy's final arc of the season so well. Though Buffy has certainly matured a lot since season 1, she wasn't prepared for this yet (could she ever have?). Her desperate "who's going to take care of us?" showed that she still had a little vulnerable girl in her, and who can blame her... she's only in her early twenties. The writers also made a very good choice in introducing the whole resurrection issue with Willow in this episode. This is already quite late into season 5, I don't know if they already planned the storyline for season 6; but I think it is quite likely. It fit in very well with the themes of the episode and laid the foundations for season 6. Im glad this episode did that. Honestly, if they had said that there was much debate about resurrection among witches of the world only after it became a necessary point to be raise in season 6, I would have thought of it as a really contrived attempt to bend the existing universe just to accomodate the plot. Regarding the debate. Have you guys read this short story called The Monkey's Paw? The Joyce ressurection storyline was really really obviously inspired by (ripped-off, heh) The Monkey's Paw. Go read it, its a pretty good story; it's short too so all you'll need is 10 minutes. Umm, I think it's fine for pets but not humans. I mean, barring any movie zombie stuff happening, you pretty much "own" your pet already. I love animals, but I don't see why someone can't bring something similar back since you're the owner anyway and it comes from a place of love in their hearts? For humans, I don't know. I would say no only because it isn't healthy for the psychological growth of the person who resurrects the loved one. They will have to deal with their loss and mourn in their own way,having something around that's the likeness of their departed loved-one will just prolong their grief. I'm assuming that the resurrection was done purely out of grief and lonliness of course. If there are other issues at hand like the resurrected person being the sole-breadwinner or something, it's different; we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. |
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Oaf |
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ANDand19 wrote:
I actually liked Dawn in this episode. By ripping the picture, she was finally showing some growth.Dawn did do the right thing at the end, but it was after doing all the wrong things up until the end. It was heartbreaking to see nothing outside the door, because even if Buffy tries to appear as this all powerful demon fighting badass who keeps it together, by the end of the day, she just want her mommy to be by her side. Don't we all. tomash wrote: It's not the most exciting episode, but except for the whole egg-thing I think it was good. Willow helping Dawn to find out about rasing the dead, even if it's against the wicca "code", shows us that she's starting to push the boundaries on the whole magic-thing, something we see more of in the next season.Willow's growing magic problem is like the textbook definition on how you should develop a storyline that culminates about four years (and 88 episode) after is starts. It's brilliant the whole way through. myopics wrote: No, no, no! Not sarcastic at all, although I could now see how that might come off as sarcastic... I was just trying to say that I completely agre, without righting "I completely agree" for the thousandth time. You are not overbearing in the least, I'm truly thankful for people actually reading what I write and then actually responding to it. Anyway, Forever <3! Pretty good episode. Personally, I would have ranked it a tad higher, maybe 40th. 50th is a good place for it though. The Buffy/Dawn scene at the end MADE the episode. It dealt with exactly what needed to be dealt with while still managing to set up Buffy's final arc of the season so well. Though Buffy has certainly matured a lot since season 1, she wasn't prepared for this yet (could she ever have?). Her desperate "who's going to take care of us?" showed that she still had a little vulnerable girl in her, and who can blame her... she's only in her early twenties.We've touched on this on a previous discussion, but Buffy certainly was driven to her act on "The Gift" by the huge blows she took during season 5, with Joyce's death as the main one, because it meant (to her) that she had to be completely in charge from now on and not ever let her guard down, an impossible task when you're the protector of mankind from all things evil. I forgot to agree with whoever said in the "Into the Woods" duscussion that Riley leaving probably convinced Buffy that on top of it all, she is also never going to have a normal relationship. So when it comes down to it, why not jump off a tower? The writers also made a very good choice in introducing the whole resurrection issue with Willow in this episode. This is already quite late into season 5, I don't know if they already planned the storyline for season 6; but I think it is quite likely. It fit in very well with the themes of the episode and laid the foundations for season 6. Im glad this episode did that. Honestly, if they had said that there was much debate about resurrection among witches of the world only after it became a necessary point to be raise in season 6, I would have thought of it as a really contrived attempt to bend the existing universe just to accomodate the plot.Maybe not all the tiny details were planned ahead of time, but I'm sure Joss and his team had a general idea and wanted it to not come out of nowhere when it comes. Regarding the debate. Have you guys read this short story called The Monkey's Paw? The Joyce ressurection storyline was really really obviously inspired by (ripped-off, heh) The Monkey's Paw. Go read it, its a pretty good story; it's short too so all you'll need is 10 minutes. Umm, I think it's fine for pets but not humans. I mean, barring any movie zombie stuff happening, you pretty much "own" your pet already. I love animals, but I don't see why someone can't bring something similar back since you're the owner anyway and it comes from a place of love in their hearts? For humans, I don't know. I would say no only because it isn't healthy for the psychological growth of the person who resurrects the loved one. They will have to deal with their loss and mourn in their own way,having something around that's the likeness of their departed loved-one will just prolong their grief. I'm assuming that the resurrection was done purely out of grief and lonliness of course. If there are other issues at hand like the resurrected person being the sole-breadwinner or something, it's different; we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.Haven't read the story, but it sounds like I should. I think that it's like in 'Dollhouse' - once the technology (or whatever it is) exists, people are going to use it, 'cause that's just out nature. So you could bet that if it was possible, people would use it in the most harmful and destructive manner possible. Oh, and sadly, no write-up tonight (or I guess to-afternoon, in not-Israel time). I'll let you enjoy the Samoa finale, and we'll get back on schedule starting tommorrow. |
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Oaf |
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Got my new DVD player today, and for some awful reason it doesn't read Buffy until I multizone it, I'll give you the clue for the next episode,which came out sillier than usual: He: "abort the Plan, just kill all men!" She "you think you can? I'll axe you then!" Shit hit the fan and then he ran And she was proud of Buffy Anne. |
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myopics |
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Uhh, yet another one I have no clue about. School Hard?
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Oaf |
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myopics |
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Oaf |
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My 49th least favorite Buffy episode of all time:
Season 2, episode 3. Teleplay by David Greenwalt Story by Joss Whedon and David Greenwalt
Spike and Drusilla make their debut when they join forces with the anointed one and his groupies, and plan on making a move against the slayer. Buffy has bigger problem than a couple of vampires, though, because parent-teacher night is just around the corner.
Wait a second, don't come at me with spears and various other sharp objects just yet. I know that this is a very popular episode, and that its placing in this list might upset more than a few of you, but give me a chance to explain. O.K., here goes:
I just didn't like it all that much.
What do you mean, "not good enough of an explanation"? What more do you need? Fine, I'll try to elaborate a bit more:
Yeah, Spike and Drusilla are fantastic characters and villains, but after watching (more than once) all the episodes they had ever appeared in, I can't favor this episode over others just because it's the first time we see them. They were just as great in a lot of other episodes as well.
So aside from their spectacular entrance, I didn't feel like this episode was anything special, it suffered from the first few seasons' habit of telling a simplified moral tale ("you might not be the best daughter, but you're very brave") with a convenient joining of circumstances (Buffy's natural and supernatural world collide as she's in charge of both killing invading vampires and making parent-teacher night punch), and stopping at that, without any subtlety or delicacy. It's a after-school special in many ways.
But in many ways, it's not. The little things that weren't in the center made this episode for me:
So while I agree that it had its moments, I don't understand the uncompromising love for "School hard", nor do I share it. It wasn't the early classic people make it out to be.
Best parts:Xander looking through Buffy's bag for the stake; everyone making weapons while Buffy makes salad; Drusilla stealing the show in general.
Worst parts:Sheila who had decent airtime but no purpose; Joyce telling Buffy that she doesn't want to be disappointed in her again (what the fuck?); Angel having no problem testing Spike with Xander's neck - completely out of character (although I guess he had no character at that point).
Quality Quotes:
BUFFY: La vache... doit me... touche... de la... jeudi. Was it wrong? Should I use the plural?
GILES: Angel, do you know if this Spike fellow goes under any other name?
WILLOW: What kinda punch did you make?
CORDELIA: You're starting to look a little slagged. What, are you just skipping foundation entirely now?
Room for Debate: say you're in Joyce's shoes, and you sort-of see a vampire's face in the dark. Do you write this off as a bad case of skin trouble mixed with horrible lightening, or do you start to question what you know about the supposedly normal world you live in?
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