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Phoenix1269 |
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MasterDarkNinja |
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cindidindi76 wrote:The last episode that totals were posted for Mick and Russell were tied for the lead, but both were under 30% of the vote. Natalie and Jaison were tied for second. The math worked out to 4 Mick votes, 4 Russell v votes, 3 Jaison votes, and 3 Natalie votes. Of course that could change when the results are in for Thursday night's episode. |
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Phoenix1269 |
MOR Differential Analysis (pre finale) | ||
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So - here it is.... Phoenix's pre-finale MOR Differential Winner's Analysis.
I'll warn you now, it's long, it contains charts & stats, and it's messy!!! feel free to scroll past, but it is interesting if you are into that kind of thing... -- Charts S10-S18
S10S10S10S10S10S10S10S10S1010S1 Sx10S10S110 S11S11S11S11S11S11S11S11S11S11S11S10S110S1S1 S12S12S12S1xx2S12S12S12S12S12S12S 12S12
S13S10S10S10S10S10S10S10S1010S1 Sx10S10S110 S14S11S11S11S11S11S11S11S11S11S11S10S110S1S1 S15S12S12S1xx2S12S12S12S12S12S12S 12S12
S16S10S10S10S10S10S10S10S1010S1 Sx10S10S110 S17S11S11S11S11S11S11S11S11S11S11S10S110S1S1 S18S12S12S1xx2S12S12S12S12S12S12S 12S12 FINAL MORDIFF WINNERS RANKINGS (S10 to S18) from highest to lowest 1.64 Tom (1 above midpoint) 1.53 JT (on midpoint / topside) 1.48 Bob (on midpoint / topside) 1.20 Todd (1 below midpoint) 1.03 Danni (on midpoint / topside) 1.02 Earl (3 below midpoint) 0.64 Parvati (6 below midpoint) 0.55 Yul (10 below midpoint) 0.47 Aras (8 below midpoint) Winner's Median: 1.025 Winner's Average: 1.06 (indicated with a dark blue line on the charts) If you are interested... See original post from Gabon here Trends & Observations Out of 9 Completed Seasons (assuming that the Target of the MORD is closest to Zero) A. 9 out of 9 winners are BELOW the mid-range value for their season. (dark orange line; highest MORD / 2) B. 9 out of 9 winners are not the HIGHEST MORD of their season.... the closest we've ever gotten was with JT, who was still a full HALF of the highest MORD (Coach), and was 6 full positions off of the top of the scale. C. 7 / 9 (78%) of Winners are NOT the LOWEST MORD in their season. (Only 2 Winners (22%) were the LOWEST MORD of their season) D. 8 / 9 (89%) Winners' are OVER 0.5 MORD E. 6 / 9 (67%) Winners are OVER 1.0 MORD (including the LOW VISIBILITY winners Danni & Bob) F. 6 / 9 (67%) of Winners are closer to the midpoint for their season than to 0 (light orange line; highest - lowest / 2) G. 5 / 9 Winners (55.5%) are lower than the midpoint for their season H. The RANGE for a Winner's MORD has held for 7 seasons now 0.47 on the low end (Aras) and 1.64 oh the high end (Tom). I. Out of the 10 edits over all 9 seasons to receive less than 0.5 MORD... only 1 was a winner (12.5%), 4 (37.5%) finished in the F5. J. Only Once has the Final 1 & 2 players' MORDs been side by side... Aras and Danielle. Also the only time the the 2 Lowest MORDs lined up to the Winner & 2nd place. K. The LOWEST MORD ever is a tie between Peih-Gee (S15) and Cirie (S16) at 0.40. The HIGHEST MORD Ever belongs to Chicken (S15) at 3.77. L. VERY EARLY boots (up to 3rd boot) USUALLY have the highest or 2nd highest MORD (or both). (8 / 9 seasons) M. 8 / 9 seasons the second lowest MORD belongs to a very early Jury member OR the F2 loser AND/OR a major decoy winner (like Eliza S16 or Marcus S17 or Stephen S18) N. No switches (or a very LATE, pre-merge switch) in a season = a higher MORD winner (Tom, Bob, JT). A very EARLY switch (within the first 3 episodes) = a LOW MORD winner (Aras, Yul). A swap that occurs in the mid-preseason = a Mid-range winner (Danni E4, Earl E6, Todd E5). The only exception to this is Parvati who at 0.64 I would consider to be a LOW MORD winner, but her swap was E5....which means her MORD should have been a bit higher. O. 4 / 9 winners fall within a small range defined by the Midpoint - Median - Mid-range values. 1 other falls JUST outside of the range (by only a few decimal points Todd .05 ) MORDiff - Analysis S19 to end of E12 Sum difference from middle of road for total season
4.59 - Ben Browning 3.06 - Brett Clouser 2.79 - Kelly Sharbaugh 2.75 - Russell Hantz ------------------------------------- MID-RANGE VALUE (2.3) (highest /2) ------------------------------------- MID-POINT (2.2) (highest - lowest /2) 1.89 - Betsy Bolan 1.89 - Marisa Calihan 1.86 - Shannon Waters 1.74 - Mike Borassi 1.69 - Natalie White 1.40 - John Fincher ------------------------------------- MEDIAN (1.36) 1.32 - Laura Morett 1.17 - Yasmin Giles 1.12 - Monica Padilla 1.00 - Dave Ball 0.90 - Jaison Robinson 0.86 - Russell Swan 0.67 - Mick Trimming 0.65 - Ashley Trainer 0.53 - Elizabeth Kim 0.20 - Erik Cardona Current midpoint: 2.20 Current mid-range value: 2.30 Current Median: 1.36 According to the MORD TRENDS outlined above... And taking into consideration that I suspect that this is a F3 season, due to the 12 person merge and the very big jury.... RUSSELL & BRETT Russell & Brett's MORDs are ridiculously high for a winner. The highest MORD winner we have ever had was Tom, with JT & Bob close on his heels... Just on the MORD value alone, if either Brett or Russell won, that would BEAT OUT Tom's by over a full point!!! I mean...seriously... these MORDs are higher than Susie (S17) & Becky (S13)!!! Even Coach!!! If either of these guys wins, it contradicts observations A, B, G, H, L. The big ones here are A & B. I speculate that the MORD numbers suggest Brett in at F4 (his number pattern - though high - matches more closely to people like Jenn Lyon S10, Lydia S11, Becky S13, Cassandra S14, Natalie S16). BRETT = NOT WINNING Russell's MORD numbers suggest either he is next to go ( 2 off of the Final pair/trio... a la Coach, Shane S12, even Natalie S16) or possibly he is an F2-F3 loser (like similar MORDs Becky, Susie, etc). The concern i have about Russell being the F2-F3 loser spot is that players with those MORD numbers are generally quieter. I would love to have access to the MORD numbers for S8 & S9 to see what Boston Rob's and Twila's numbers were... if you scale the math, StepheME from S11 & Courtney from S15 are probably the most similar... even though she is a 1.41 and 1.52 respectively, the scale for those years are tighter, where this year the scale is really wide. Regardless, i can't see Russell getting his numbers down far enough to be within range of Tom, Bob & JT. All three winners were criticised for having too much of something (ie positive tone, too MOR and too OTT, too quiet, too popular, etc). Visibility was generally consistent with the exception of Bob's early UTR streak, and JT's back-to-back 5s. Russell has been generally too negative and too visible, something that the other 3 high MORD winners do not have. RUSSELL = NOT WINNING -- NATALIE Natalie's MORD at 1.69 is also higher than any other winner... BUT is not out of contention. Tom's final MORD was 1.64. There is the potential that between the numbers from Thursday's episode and the finale it could bring her in line with Tom, JT & Bob (which is exactly what happened with Bob!). Additionally, Observation N would indicate that a higher MORD winner is likely as this season had no swap. On the down side... I have noticed that over the last couple of weeks, Natalie's MORD is not coming down, it has been going up! Natalie is most similar to other Quiet MORDs like Susie S17, Alexis S16, Cassandra S14, Sundra S13, Lydia S11. I would speculate that like most of them, she will probably be an F2-F3 loser. The MORD does suggest that like Bob, she has a decent chance of winning with her quiet edit, depending on who she is sitting with and whether or not they split the vote. Although from an editing & logic stand point, her early season was abysmal. Natalie winning does not contradict any of the observations with the possible exception of H.... hmmm... that's a surprise. The MORD Numbers suggest to me that Natalie is either our winner or F2 loser. NATALIE = DECENT TO GOOD CHANCE OF WINNING -- JAISON Jaison's MORD at 0.90 is the closest to the WINNER'S AVERAGE (1.06). On the downside, no winner has won with their MORD stuck in the 90s (sounds like a pop song...) BUT....depending on Thursday's episode, and the Finale, his MORD has the potential to move into a common zone for a winner (just over 1.0 and as high as 1.20). Jaison winning contradicts N & O...and potentially E & F. His MORD currently falls in the same range like Yau-man S14, Sugar S17, Erinn S18, Ozzy S13, Earl S14, Danni S11. My feeling is that the MORD says that Jaison is either next to go, or he wins. Since - unlike the first 4 mentioned - Jaison has not done something spectacular to change the game nor has been edited as a fan favorite... i feel like he has more in common with the 2 winners in this range. JAISON = DECENT to GOOD CHANCE OF WINNING -- MICK Mick's MORD at 0.67 is on the low end of the MORD winners. He is almost in the same range as Aras, Yul & Parvati. His MORD has the potential to move both up or down. If he moves up the scale too much (ie closer to 1.0) this is actually not good for him. No winner has ever won with a MORD between 0.7 & 0.99. If he drops down the scale, it would bode better for him. However, Mick winning would contradict observations E, F, N & O (no matter which way his MORD travels). His MORD values are most in common with Taj S18, Marcus S17, Parvati, Jason & Amanda S16, Aaron & Amanda S15, Nick & Sally S12, Rafe & BobbyJon S11. Looking at the 3 LOW MORD winners, I noticed that they all have a pretty tight range for their MORD. Yul's season has an E1 anomaly in Sekou at 3.7.... but the next MORD number is a full point less (Billy at 2.65). Aras and Parv's years are very tight in the range. The top MORD in each year isn't close to 3.0. Taking this into consideration, I feel that while it is not impossible for Mick to win....his win is less in line with the MORD trends that either Natalie or Jaison. MICK = SLIGHT CHANCE OF WINNING -- So, based on the MORD History Trends, Natalie, Jaison & Mick all have a shot at winning... in that order. All three of them have problems with their edits... if I look at only the MORD numbers, then Natalie stands the best chance. If i consider the edit and other edgic information and story... I think Jaison stands the best chance. Mick is a long shot. Russell & Brett are out of the running. ETA: 3 things... 1. spelling 2. I just wanted to note that even though i haven't had time this year to participate in edgic (I've been very very busy...lots going on in my personal life....the dating thing is going well...I'm going to England with him over Christmas, so i guess that means it's going well), renos are getting there, work is busy, curling is great! it's all good....wish i had more time to participate right now. I've missed you too Blake & Oo (and everyone!!) 3. I picked Jaison at the merge, and even though I haven't been doing really indepth stats,i will be sticking with him. I still think that if this truly is the story of why Russell loses and a big part of that is because he thinks "Survivor is easy", then the editors will want to show us that Survivor is not easy to win, and Jaison is the only one who can really fill that bill.
Last Edited By: Phoenix1269
12/20/09 04:45 PM.
Edited 2 times.
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getting real |
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Phoenix, I wish I hadn't wasted my 2000th post in praise of FLF instead of posting that I'm in awe of your mathematical and analytical abilities.
Hope everything turns out exactly as you want it in your personal life. You're like a breath of fresh air in here! |
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Phoenix1269 |
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getting real wrote: LOL! thank you gr.... i'm in awe of your linguistiic abilities.... so i guess we are even! thanks !!! |
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chapera rocks |
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Best of luck to everyone on their picks tonight!
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Findan |
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I choose Jaison at the merge and plan to stick to him. I have not been spoiled and I appreaciate the warnings posted as I was catching up on this thread.
Although I can agree with Kittypride (sp?) that Jaison being happy with finally winning something may be it for him, but as I have posted earlier, I can see his story being bigger than that. This has been Russell's season, but he is not the winner. Whoever is has to have their story tied into Russell's somehow. Of course, by this time all 3 FF have ties to him. Jaison's story is good v. evil. He was the hero that caused Ben's boot. He was the hero that instigated Eric's boot. It was his say to boot Shambo, thereby remaining good and loyal to FF & his buddy Mick. We know that Russell burned at least Jaison's socks in Ep1. Karma anyone? His whining was over in the "man test". Jaison has spoken at TC about his struggles in life and he was very revealing in the recap about how the story of his life where he is tired of seeing the guys breaking the rules win and the 'good guys' falling beind. He has won each time he has stood up for himself and what he wants. As far as jury ties etc. I was cheered at first to see Jaison working Monica and Brett for the jury votes, I was very worried later in the ep when it appeared to backfire on him with Russell discovery. However, maybe that revelation doesn't backfire at the end of the day on Jaison. That ep seemed to me to the story of how important positioning yourself for the jury votes is, but not only who you are sitting besides, but to continue to cultivate relationships and work the jury in order better position yourself against more of the remaining players. This is what Russell seems to be missing, whereas the other 3 FF have a good grasp of. I too have spoken before about the producers not want Survivor looking like a cakewalk, but something very difficult, both physically & mentally. It's not just getting to the end, but how did you get there and who is sitting on the jury? Btw, I can see Russell being so full of himself at FTC that he slips up, just like he has during the game with his $ and HIIs, and boasts and brags too much. It has been pointed out (by Brett I believe) that you have to stay humble, that it is when you are too comfortable, you're in trouble. I could see a Mick win. What was shown of him throughout the season would entirely make sense if he were to win. I could see a Natalie win. What was shown of her throughout the season would entirely make sense if she were to win. I could see a Russell win. What was shown of him througout the season would entirely make sense if he were to win. I could not see a Brett win. He would have been shown. |
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Jedijake |
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Jaison winning makes the most sense. Actually, he's the only one making any sense.
His suggesting quitting is NOTHING compared to the lack of story for Natalie and Mick (and lack of valuable airtime) and Russell's ridiculous dominance. However, we know how MB drools over people like Russell. Therefore, based on Edgic, the winner chances are: 1. Jaison <big gap> 2. Russell 3. Mick <Grand Canyon gap> 4. Brett, Natalie...pretty much non-existent chances. If Jaison wins, the story makes sense. If Russell wins, it's obvious MB was trying to repeat Borneo without showing anyone else If Mick wins, the producers just hated Mick. If Natalie wins, it's proof that the producers hate women. If Brett wins, Survivor needs to end ASAP. NATALIE = DECENT TO GOOD CHANCE OF WINNINGThat's a joke, right?
Last Edited By: Jedijake
12/20/09 05:41 PM.
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Werwanderflugen |
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It's great to see you back around here, Phoenix. That was a fascinating post and a great tool for tonight's episode and future seasons!
Here's where I stand tonight: I SAW two ways to "do edgic" this season: follow traditional numbers, ratings, and guidelines without as much concern for the story being told, or forgive certain (but not too many!) 'non-edgic' aspects to accomodate the story that I felt was being told. I WISH that I had more faith in the raw numbers, as Mick would be my choice to win. After a great first three or four episodes, however, his story began to flounder, flopping helplessly on the deck of the merge, and even a late-game CP couldn't redeem him in my eyes. Half of my brain feels that Mick is the best choice in this lopsidedly-edited season, and yet I can't shake the feeling that his edit has been flat for reasons other than his real-life persona. But just by the numbers, he's great: a memorable premiere, signs of complexity throughout the season, and involvement in a larger story. The lack of personalization, however, is what ultimately (and, fortunately or unfortunately) keeps me from making him my #1 pick. I HOPE that sticking to my gut will edgically pay off this time around: my winner choice at this point is Russell. In my eyes, his abnormally-high visibility is the only traditional-edgic eyesore than deters his winning chances. People continue to throw out the "excessive tone/negativity" argument, completely forgetting the Richards/Ambers/Bobs of seasons past (who are just as guilty, by the numbers). Still, the lack of precedence regarding his visibility throws a red flag, and whether that's a good red flag or a bad red flag is your call. In many ways, I feel like how you rated him in episode one determined your views of him throughout: if you saw him as CPNN, you see a character and potential winner that the editors crafted despite the extreme visibility. If you saw him as OTTNN, he was immediately eliminated and probably never played a role in your winner radar. Here's what makes me pick Russell: 1) he has the most consistent, personalized edit of the season 2) he is a CP character that could easily have been edited as constantly OTT 3) he edit of late has had plenty of winner's doubt 4) as some have said, "he is his own distraction," which gives him a proper dose of 'edgic doubt' as well 5) Jury connections like you wouldn't believe I FEAR that I may not have learned my lesson from Gabon, when at some point in mid-season I casually eliminated Bob. Since then, I tried to keep as many people in contention as possible until they had a string of episodes (or episode) that completely eliminated their chances. So my fear is: I should not have eliminated Jaison. Yes, looking back, his pre-merge was quite possibly un-winner-like, but his post-merge redemption continues his upward-looking roller coaster of an edit. His is a story that faces obstacles and then overcomes them: he takes on racism, and wins that battle. He fights for immunity, and wins that battle. Could his season-stretching story consist of a wimpy premerge followed by a redemption through ultimate victory? It's a very Cirie story, but I can't deny the possibility. I THINK, though, that edgic may not do us well at all this season, and Natalie will win. Her INV episode (well, episodes, if you ask me and some others) is a cause for potentially immediate elimination, and her lack of presence in the season seals the deal. I can't deny, though, that logically and story-wise, it appears that the jury vote will easily go her way. It's funny how I'm eager to eliminate Natalie because of a lack in visibility, while I forgive Russell's visibility issues. If so, and Natalie wins, I'll learn my lesson. If neither of them win, I'll learn my lesson. Either way, I'll be back next season trying to figure it out all over again. (and... wouldn't it have been nice for Brett to have gotten more of an edit early on? He's got such an epic endgame story going on right now!) |
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Jedijake |
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I can't believe anyone is actually stating any sort of case for a Natalie win. That seems rather absurd in an Edgic forum.
What's even sillier is the fact that some are coming up with strange formulas that even remotely dictate a Natalie win. |
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getting real |
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WWF, very well articulated post. Hopefully there'll be some kind of conquest at the end to go with your 'I Came,
Saw, Wished, Hoped, Feared and Thought' post.
Jedi, I fear you're laughing in all the wrong places... |
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JaimeCat22 |
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Jedijake wrote: X |
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fat little fingers |
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What's even sillier is the fact that some are coming up with strange formulas that even remotely dictate a Natalie win. The "strange formulas" are just the stats from past seasons. Don't shoot the mathematics messenger. ;-) |
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SFC |
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Like Phoenix did that to showcase "Natalie's Superior Edgic Stats."
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BlakeB717 |
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I think right now the most significant edit went to Mick. One scene that I found particularly interesting was a clip of him "watching" during Russell H and Marisa's conversation. He didn't vote with his tribe but we didn't see that. He doesn't appear to be on the outs, but observant. Everyone praised his leadership abilities and he mentioned that he was a doctor and was able to parallel his profession to this situation he was in, and strategically placed the leadership role (which everyone was saying all episode was a death note) onto Ben. Remember when Todd did that to Aaron?My first post after Episode 1. I have to stick with it. The consistency in his edit as a quiet observer, to me, is significant. Every confessional has spoke of questioning whether someone was lying. He was spared of any negativity for his leadership of the failing FoaFoa tribe. Mick is aware. Mick is humble. Mick's no fool. Crossing my fingers, but my track record for Fall seasons has been 0 for 2. I wish everyone the best with their picks tonight! Seems the odds are stacked against me with all this Natalie appreciation, but I had it with JT. Maybe I'll have the same luck with Mick tonight. Be very cautious tonight: spoiler attack may be imminent with the anticipated Edgic activity after tonight. I'm keeping my piece of paper handy. Thanks to those who posted who the second attack was from: I had a lovely inbox message from them that I was happy to delete before opening. :) Gotta' keep hope alive... |
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Jedijake |
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Natalie cannot be in the middle of the "differential" or whatever it is if she only has about 10 confessionals and has the airtime comparable to
Susie, Becky, and Cassandra.
Denise had a MUCH better shot of winning at this point in her season than Nat. |
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getting real |
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I wish everyone the best with their picks tonight! Seems the odds are stacked against me with all this Natalie appreciation, but I had it with JT. Maybe I'll have the same luck with Mick tonight. Good on you, Blake. Seemed like everyone had jumped off the Natalie bandwagon before the last episode. With me, it's the opposite. Before her pernultimate episode rise, the only question in my mind was whether they'd include the rag-slaying as part of the package to kick off the reunion, along with her Russell alliance Episode 4 confessional and footage of her working the Galu women. After, the strength of her last episode, however, I'm not so confident. But I still think it's the season of the non-Russell. With Natalie being that non-Russell winner. Especially with the MORD stats Phoenix came up with. I'll now sign off for several hours until I can see the finale. Good luck to everyone. And enjoy it! |
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astroline |
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I really think what I said about the recap holds true. The only 3 people mentioned specifically by name in the recap FOR the recap were Russell, Natalie and
Shambo. We'll see, but I still think Russell wins, and if not him, it's an anti-Russell win for Natalie. Good luck guys.
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SFC |
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Lets see which of our
Good Luck With Your Picks! |
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fsmdud |
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If Edgic were to be upheld tonight, Jaison or Mick will be winning. In fact, if anyone but Jaison or Mick wins, the rules/expectations/norms of Edgic need to
be changed a little for sure.
Natalie winning will be an anomaly, but can be somewhat salvaged if some big things happen tonight and she gets >8 confessionals tonight. Russell winning will be an even bigger anomaly, but still potentially explainable if he truly is the breakout evil star of the season and of possibly the past 12 seasons. Brett winning? Fire the editing staff. |
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