S19 - Finale - Play By Play/Post Show Analysis/Reunion W00t Party in MESS Hall Tribal Council Forum

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S19 - Finale - Play By Play/Post Show Analysis/Reunion W00t Party

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crocophile

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Posts: 11165

(12/21/09 06:32 AM)

MESS Moderator

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Natalie carried out the most strategic move in the game, dump Erik, even though she was not an overtly strategic player. She played the social game well, infiltrating Galu and in fact was a spy. She played a key role. How ironic is it Erik's speech explained exactly why he lost. Playing the social game is necessary for a win. That was totally lost on FatRuss, as it was by Rob M. It was not lost on Brian or Hatch, or even Chris. Mick did make one very good point....It took all of F-F to overtake Galu, not just Russ as he believes. The jury punished Russell for being a jackass and forgetting 19 others were there.

I still have to say S19 was my least favorite by far...I agree with az get BETTER casting.

We know the answer to Trix's two questions on who cleaned up and who packed on the most in this pic.

Final 2

Some one's done nothing but eat and blab since he got home.

Last Edited By: crocophile 12/21/09 07:28 AM. Edited 1 times.

Sam Buru

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Posts: 1640

(12/21/09 08:12 AM)

MESS member

When Russ stopped Natalie and corrected her... "No the most stratigic move of the game was alligning with me."

Natalie corrected herself and said "Second most.."

I was yelling at the TV, dammit Natalie ask how many others there alligned with Russ! After 75% raised their hand, turn to Russ and "say nope, that must not be it!"

Jedijake

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Posts: 6048

(12/21/09 08:24 AM)

MESS member

Russ got where he got for two reasons.
(1) Hidden idols grow on trees, or at least under them (for Russell)
(2) Bullying and intimidation. Seriously, why would anyone follow Russell as much as they would follow someone like Tina.

I think that people have become sick of the "corporate" type that makes people follow them due to fear.

What a far cry from the "corporate vs. blue collar" question that was raised in Borneo.

All in all, Natalie won because she was the "little person"-the underdog of the final 3 and that's what people want most to see.

Think about it though-NOBODY was asked at the reunion exactly why they voted for Natalie. The only two people who gave us reasons were Jaison and Erik. Hell, do we even know who voted for her?

Coachocd

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Posts: 7981

(12/21/09 09:16 AM)

MESS member

azcanadienne wrote:

The jury didn't reward Natalie - they punished Russell for being the only one to go out there and actually play the game

I don't disagree with you that this vote was more about punishing Russell than rewarding Natalie. However, there is nothing "wrong" with a juror choosing to use their vote to reward or punish. Even Rich received votes because the jury wanted to punish their opponent, more than reward his great game.

-----------------

That pic of the Roadrunner and the Coyote is spot on, Sunsawed.

I can hear him now. My name is "Russell H. Coyote, Super Genius..."

SEGScapegoat

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Posts: 138

(12/21/09 09:45 AM)

I don't get
most of the jokes

azcanadienne wrote:
I take issue with comparisons of Natalie to Sandra or Danni or others considered somewhat "under the radar." She didn't win challenges, she made zero strategic moves, she didn't own any influence over the strategist...I don't even see anything justifiable in her social game. If she had stepped up tonight and said "I got to know each one of you - I know what you do, I know your children's names, I know where you went to school...." - I could absolutely accept the "better social game" reasoning

She didn't even do that much - she pretty much said "I showed up....y'all;" then the jury went off on ethics and morality and the "least deserving" being the "most deserving" and it ended up with a great big "WTF!?!?!!?" She rode Russell's coattails the whole game - and then Eric made her FTC speech for her. I'm stymied as to what she actually contributed to her win

All spoilers said Natalie was the most likely winner - it really didn't bother me, until I saw the FTC performance

The jury didn't reward Natalie - they punished Russell for being the only one to go out there and actually play the game

If this is what it takes to win Survivor - somebody should've written a $1 million check to Melissa McNulty

Fire Spillman!

^^^^ I agree 100%. Add Erica Shay to the firing list, too. Russell walked onto S20 as a stranger. No one knew anything about him except for one, Erica's bff Parvati. We'll see how that turned out. Survivor needs to go back to it's roots - 16 strangers.

CFmomma

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Posts: 3394

(12/21/09 10:48 AM)

MESS member

Not too sure how I feel about the wind up. A Natalie win was not surprising given the circumstances. I was a bit taken aback that Mick got no votes at all. He was no less deserving than Natalie and seemed a decent guy. I guess the Dr thing was the sticking point, that and Eric hated him for not being a great leader (in his opinion). I was also surprised that Jaison had such bitter feelings towards Mick, since he wrote Mick's name down. Both were on the chopping block and the vote could have gone either way, so *shrugs* evs.

I knew Russell would be pissed but I had no idea just how pissed! Wowsers. This guy has got to learn to lose with some grace. Yikes.

Jedijake

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Posts: 6055

(12/21/09 11:28 AM)

MESS member

What was so strange (I always tend to rephrase my previous posts lol) is that the jury seemed to be voting based on what WE the viewers saw and what was shown on the show that the players themselves NEVER saw until they watched.

Off screen, Russell was insulting, chauvinistic, and self-entitled not to mention sabotaged everyone out there. However, NOBODY saw this so how could they have known he was as much of a snake he was when they actually voted.

Schadenfreude

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Posts: 812

(12/21/09 12:23 PM)

MESS member

It has always been about voting people off in away that still enables them to vote for you at least as the lesser of evils by a jury that makes its own criteria.

Bingo. I feel like this season... did not really end in a satisfying way. On the one hand, I agree with Russell that, voting on the criteria of voting for the best strategist, he should have won. But, seriously, Russell, have you watched the first eighteen seasons of this show and the dumbass reasons that contestants use for justifying voting for the person that makes them able to save face? The fact is that Galu was not run strategically, it was run by Laura who was running the camp like the meanest girl in the eighth grade, who wanted to vote on the criteria of popularity alone rather than anything strategic... which explains exactly why John and Shambo were the two renegade votes for Russell. Natalie was absolutely inoffensive and had some work ethic and I'm sure was easier to like than Russell or Mick. The other thing Russell severely miscalculated: that if you're going to play the game as the cold-as-ice strategist, you HAVE to, HAVE to take someone that the jury doesn't even like to the final. Richard and Brian I think are our best examples: had Richard taken Rudy, to the final, he'd have lost big time despite the fact that Richard was the better player, but up against Kelly, anyone that is voting on strategy is voting for Rich. Brian just narrowly escaped having the same fate as Russell did... but the fact that he did apologize to Helen managed to salvage her vote (she was ready to vote for Clay despite the fact he despised her.) Remember, Brian would have lost to Jan 5-2 with that jury. JAN, people! Russell really needed one of Jaison or Shambo in the final instead of Natalie, but it's his own damned fault for not believing that anyone would vote for a woman over him.

erickman

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Posts: 21356

(12/21/09 02:11 PM)

MESS member

i am not pissed off at a nat win, i am pissed off at mb's edit of her. whats a matter with his edit of women from tina the dog that did not bark to dani, ok men are better tv on survivor but come on. if it was'nt for missy everyone would be suprised at her win. i kind of like to see how russ changes his game in ass2.

Cheyenie

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Posts: 1289

(12/21/09 02:22 PM)

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azcanadienne wrote:

The jury didn't reward Natalie - they punished Russell for being the only one to go out there and actually play the game

Survivor isn't chess or poker. When you play Survivor you're not playing with cards or game pieces. You are playing with people. So yeah, you can deceive, backstab, and lie but chances are it's going to come back to haunt you. The jury decides the rules of the game really. They define what kind of behavior you can get away with. For some reason, Russell thought playing the game means willing to do anything to win. I think it's more of a challenge to vote people out and still have their respect. He thought he controlled the game, but with the way he played he never had a chance at controlling the jury. That's how you win Survivor. You find a way to control the jury.

azcanadienne

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Posts: 3236

(12/21/09 02:42 PM)

MESS member

After now having seen the videos of the jury as they headed into FTC - I'm thinking maybe most of them did employ some sort of rock/paper/scissors mechanism

Shambo - explains Russell vote (oddly enough - her over-enthusiasm for Russell makes me want to cancel out her vote)
John - explains Russell vote
Dave - explains Natalie vote
Brett - wishy-washy, but attempts to make some sort of reason-based decision

The rest....I don't get. John says he thinks maybe several of the jurors are going to throw away their vote in some sort lottery ticket deal, and Eric mentions lottery tickets too

Maybe that Ponderosa shot of him sitting at the table with a pen and paper - was him actually scratching to come up with his vote, and then he just defended it at FTC

I just don't understand their reasoning - and maybe it's because there was no reasoning. Maybe they played beer pong with three cups and whoever's cup the ball landed in, that's where five votes went

GrenadeJumper85

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Posts: 14969

(12/21/09 02:43 PM)

Off screen, Russell was insulting, chauvinistic, and self-entitled not to mention sabotaged everyone out there. However, NOBODY saw this so how could they have known he was as much of a snake he was when they actually voted.

Remember, we were never there with them 24/7 for 39 days, so Russell very well could have been the same to everyone else as he was to the camera's.

Of course, the editing was so lopsided and biased that we for sure weren't shown what actually went on out there. I feel bad for Natalie, she's getting unnecessarily trashed and called a horrible winner even though (in my opinion) she played a better game then Russhole.

The editors should be ashamed of themselves. They've proved once again that they have no freakin idea how to edit a successful female winner.

crocophile

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Posts: 11171

(12/21/09 03:30 PM)

MESS Moderator

Erik...I don't think he's capable of changing his spots. I'm thinking the same, just less with him since they've got a crew of A-S.

Backupforgrabs

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Posts: 455

(12/21/09 03:38 PM)

MESS member

I think that Natalie will join the list of forgotten winners (quick, name the 18 previous winners), but Russell will be the first truly memorable runner-up.

WildCard88

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Posts: 4

(12/21/09 03:55 PM)

Registered user

Why should it matter if Natalie is forgotten? She has the one thing that Russell wanted the most and that is the title of Sole Survivor of Survivor: Samoa.

crocophile

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Posts: 11173

(12/21/09 04:03 PM)

MESS Moderator

He just earned a different title "A-hole Survivor". BUFG I think Steph and Colby also rank among the remebered second place finishers.

GrenadeJumper85

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Posts: 14974

(12/21/09 04:11 PM)

WildCard88 wrote:
Why should it matter if Natalie is forgotten? She has the one thing that Russell wanted the most and that is the title of Sole Survivor of Survivor: Samoa.

Exactly! Russell can piss and moan and say he was robbed all he wants and the fans cry like babies yelling robbed too, but who will get to keep the title of Sole Survivor of Samoa? Natalie.

Wezzie

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Posts: 5448

(12/21/09 04:15 PM)

MESS member

Trixie, you are a treasure. I don't know if you look at this thread after your fingers have stopped typing, but if you do please know how much we appreciate you. You have made your mark in Survivor History.

they say

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Posts: 788

(12/21/09 04:34 PM)

MESS member

^ Very TRUE! And also Romona when she can get out of her meetings.

I thought it was a pretty decent season, although I wish they hadn't hidden the winner like that.

Congrats on the game win Wezzie!

Here's to a short off-season. See everybody for HvF in February.

cymbals

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Posts: 421

(12/21/09 05:11 PM)

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Sam Buru wrote:
When Russ stopped Natalie and corrected her... "No the most stratigic move of the game was alligning with me."

Natalie corrected herself and said "Second most.."

I was yelling at the TV, dammit Natalie ask how many others there alligned with Russ! After 75% raised their hand, turn to Russ and "say nope, that must not be it!"

all the way through the game she patiently told russ what russ wanted to here. I thought it was striking that she did it again at the finale and irony being she has the million dollars and the title. Telling him what he wanted to hear was a good strategy for that character.

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S19 - Finale - Play By Play/Post Show Analysis/Reunion W00t Party