S-19 Edgic (editing and logic) in Survivor Speculation Forum

0 Points

S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)

Started By	Comment
Mega64		#5761	[-]
Posts: 11939 (12/21/09 01:26 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Do you believe in love at first sight or should I walk by again ? Remove this ad I also find it hilarious how many people are defending Blake when he was the one starting most of this shit. But then again you morons live for this type of drama, so I shouldn't be surprised.
Kirblar		#5762	[-]
Posts: 8610 (12/21/09 01:37 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	. It's starting to look like you had a lucky streak with Aras, Yul, and Earl Because they were boring Alphas. And that's who they keep picking regardless of whether they're contextually correct.
craig		#5763	[-]
Posts: 16741 (12/21/09 01:45 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Edgic is like a religious denomination, with the guidelines as our bible. Trying to reform them would be messy. They haven't changed in ages, despite many good criticisms.. People go on interpreting them selectiively and calling out others as heretics. "That's not edgic" - even if it helped you pick the winner. "We're proud to say our Mick pick was based on sound orthodox principles, even if it was wrong." If you disagree, you're an unbeleiver, biased, or a spoiler cheat. Boundaries get more rigid, more dogmatic . "That's story or thematic analysis - get out of here!" We quantify visibility by sentences spoken - and act like this is ALL there is to visibility. Last Edited By: craig 12/21/09 01:48 PM. Edited 1 times.
unduli clone		#5764	[-]
Posts: 8056 (12/21/09 01:47 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I do agree that the rules and guidelines need a major overhaul. Edgic in general does. We haven't done very well predicting winners lately, and I think a lot of it may have to do with the infusion of spoilers and an attempt to use those spoilers to work backwards and find the winner, instead of how it used to be done once upon a time. Obviously not all are spoiled, but when a strong and loud majority are, the whole suffers. Especially considering how heavily spoiled next season is, I think creating a separate Edgic (w/ Spoilers) thread would make a whole lot of sense.
scepticA		#5765	[-]
Posts: 1868 (12/21/09 02:00 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Kitty Pryde1 wrote: Mick's leadership abilities and the fact that he was a shitty leader compared to Russell S. should've been a tip-off to him not winning. It was like the sacred stone ceremony in S9. The very early stuff disappeared, and then reappeared in the finale. Mick's constant narrative confessionals, when we all know that narrators don't win should've been a tip-off to him not winning. He wasn't much of a narrator at all. He rarely gave generic confessionals on the state of the game. There was no true narrator this season, who's typically a nice MORP person. In fact, the primary "narrator" for the Russelseason was the person who came in 2nd. Mick's complete lack of tone, aside from positive SPV in episode 1 when he made good choices based on first impressions should've been a tip-off to him not winning. He was reasonably P up to the merge and then became utterly toneless. See later point about when to pick the winner. Mick's complete lack of any kind of merge edit for the Liz boot to the Laura boot should've been a tip-off to him not winning. Agreed. His post merge edit stunk. Mick's lack of confessional when he won immunity (something that should've spelled disaster for Peih-Gee, edgically) should've been a tip-off to him not winning. Too elastic, but fit in perfectly with his basic mor/utr post merge edit. Mick's complete lack of ANY story whatsoever compared to Russell, Natalie, Jaison, Shambo, and even Brett in those last few episodes should've been a tip-off to him not winning. Agreed. Post merge mor/utr. Mick was never a good Edgic choice, and I think after this season, people really need to re-evaluate that whole "don't change your winner pick after the merge" mantra, because the winner can have a shitty pre-merge, as Natalie, Bob, and Parvati showed us, but their story generally picks up after.Disagree. He was the best edgic fit up to the merge. Please don't use Nat, because her entire edit, both pre and post merge, stunk in terms of edgic. Edgically, many of us chose Parv before the merge. She was fine. Bob's edit was much better than Nat's but that is a low bar. Nevertheless, I agree if your general suggestion is to try and reach a consensus on when we should cement our picks. I have no problem in non-spoiled seasons of people making their picks much later in the season, and I was stung by my own "pick at merge" with Amanda - the very next episode I went - oops, Todd is a much better choice, so let's figure out a general timeframe when we can say, "Changed my mind... I now think it's Y instead of X."
GrenadeJumper85		#5766	[-]
Posts: 14966 (12/21/09 02:13 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I really simply think the problem is that too many people forget the "Logic" part in Edgic. Logic would have told you all that there was no way Russell or Mick were winning over Natalie. There was just no possible way, even if you didn't read spoilers. Russell pissed off way too many people and Mick had absolutely no story, tone, or endgame ties to the jury whatsoever. Do we also agree that The Merge Episode >>>>>>> The First Episode. The merge has been a solid winner indicator season after season. Even moreso than the premiere episode.
unduli clone		#5767	[-]
Posts: 8060 (12/21/09 02:26 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Edgic is not Editing + Logic, it is the Logic of Editing. Using "logic," we would never have called Parvati beating Amanda, Cirie or Natalie in a jury vote, but using the logic of editing the majority chose Parvati as the winner in FvF. Just like storylines and reaction shots are outside the scope of Edgic, using traditional logic is as well.
GrenadeJumper85		#5768	[-]
Posts: 14968 (12/21/09 02:31 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	That's what I mean! The editing logic clearly told us there was no way anyone other than Natalie had at chance at the win.
Trixiego		#5769	[-]
Posts: 19092 (12/21/09 02:32 PM) Kiss me, I'm Adminish Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I really simply think the problem is that too many people forget the "Logic" part in Edgic. GJ is dead on with this statement. The final three was spoiled almost immediately. However, spoilers are not, of those three, it wasn't a stretch to pick Natalie using the logic part. Mick would not have received the edit he got if he won; Edgic has always known a young male would not be presented that way but a young female COULD be presented how Natalie was presented. Russell was clearly the character they threw around which they usually have one every season. He was television gold. As far as the nitpicking that since a winner wasn't spoiled (only a final three) then Natalie picks can't be stated to have been spoiled. I strongly disagree. One instance that would clear up who picked Natalie after spoilers came out would be someone who did a 180 on her after poo pooing her completely in the first couple of episodes. Should someone had said they were not sure but can't rule it out at that time, fine. Read around; it's the people who magically decided her edit was full of substance after the final three were spoiled are the ones that smell.
SurvivorFanGP		#5770	[-]
Posts: 11969 (12/21/09 02:38 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Do you believe in love at first sight or should I walk by again ? Remove this ad Just chiming in as a loyal reader of Edgic, I definitely think it should continue and that maybe it just needs some tweaking. Natalie's edit does fit in line with Becky, Cassandra, Susie - but I don't think anyone can deny there was a lot more content and story in her edit when you compare them. Her edit was definitely a little strange, and when looking at UTR players in the future, perhaps story can be taken into account. I don't think it means you can no longer eliminate UTR/INV players entirely. This season was truly a unique season, and Russell's edit definitely contributed to the downplaying of everyone's edits. In the three seasons where an UTRP winner won, the seasons were heavily "story-based" or had some ties to the themes. Gabon, especially. Those seasons had more to do with explaining why a certain player lost, it seems.
FallenTorch.fantasygamescen...		#5771	[-]
Posts: 240 (12/21/09 02:40 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	A lot of the analysis going on following Nat's win has been spot on. One thing I am disappointed in upon reading this thread are the many posters who find it necessary to simply pop in in in order to proclaim the demise of Edgic or to insult Blake. We got it. Blake was wrong. I don't know the guy at all, but come on. People who are just attacking him need to realize that you just all look like a bunch of hypocrites for ganging up on a guy who made a decision and stood by it. If he read spoilers, great for him. For those of you who don't read spoilers, if his sudden interest in Mick didn't make sense, then ignore it. I didn't read spoilers, but clearly Natalie and Russell had the most ties to the endgame. And premerge Mick's edit was by far the most typical of previous winners. Therefore support for these three players has nothing to do with so and so being spoiled, but rather the fact that they did look like they had a shot in such a bizarre season as this one. For the Jaison supporters, his redemption arc is the reason I discounted him. He was our Cirie or our Kathy V, or even our Erinn. He wasn't going to win but was rather going through personal growth. And we picked up on that. That's why he wasn't supported. Looking at the simple ratings and nothing beyond that, he might've had a shot, but his tone was all over the place, and logically it made NO sense for him to win. Where were his ties to the end? He had none. That along with the stubborness of most people to retain their origanal pick long after that pick's lost all viability is why he wasn't chosen (heck I'm guilty of it after Mick's UTR merge episodes). Not because of spoilers. As for the downfall of Edgic, anyone proclaiming this, why don't you just kindly remove yourself from this thread? If you don't have anything constructive, don't say it at all. Although some of you like Jamiecat seem to believe the whole of Sucks and edgic revolves around your opinions, it doesn't. Why this thread has to be shut down because you see no need for it makes no sense. If you don't agree with it, just don't post here. I'm not sure why that's too hard to understand. Still, what I am in agreement with is the idea that we need to consider Editing with the Story. Which we have been. There's no one here who looks directly at the numbers and not at the story. To do that would not only be dumb, it would go against Edgic to begin with. Although this thread isn't entirely thematic like panurge's, the combination of such would have predicted our winner this season. So rather then lose hope, let's just keep at it. What have we got to lose? Nothing. It's not like we're getting graded or paid for our work here. We do this for fun, and if people can't deal with being a little wrong sometimes, then this isn't the place for them. Edgic never said it was perfect. And that's what makes it fun to take part in. Because of the debates and arguments for one player over one another. So despite the spoilage next season, Edgic is not over with. If people only do this to get a pick right and shove it in someone's face, then this isn't the place for them. I'm fine with being wrong. I was wrong this seasons, and I'll likely be wrong in the future. But I'd like to try to figure it out. It's all a puzzle. And that's what we do in Edgic. We solve the editing puzzle- no matter how twisted and contorted and unorthodox it may seem.
Werwanderflugen		#5772	[-]
Posts: 305 (12/21/09 02:44 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Well said, FallenTorch.
guatemala fanfic		#5773	[-]
Posts: 5536 (12/21/09 02:45 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Great post, FallenTorch! Very well put. :)
BlakeB717		#5774	[-]
Posts: 2786 (12/21/09 02:56 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Thanks Fallen Torch :) I just want to point out that there was never a "sudden interest in Mick" for me. He was my one and only pick after 20 minutes into the first episode, before any spoilers were out. I don't read spoilers. It's the same people every season who say this because they hate the way I "treat" people in here, and want to get rid of me (it all started back in China, even though my pick was Peih-Gee and none of the spoiled F3). Can we really be surprised? Last Edited By: BlakeB717 12/21/09 02:58 PM. Edited 1 times.
craig		#5775	[-]
Posts: 16743 (12/21/09 02:56 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	As far as the nitpicking that since a winner wasn't spoiled (only a final three) then Natalie picks can't be stated to have been spoiled. I strongly disagree. One instance that would clear up who picked Natalie after spoilers came out would be someone who did a 180 on her after poo pooing her completely in the first couple of episodes. Just prior to spoilers, I argued Russell\Ashley > Mick because of the "dumb girl alliance" ep.1 and Mick's lack of substance. I figured Russ would boot Mick as a threat. The spoiler threw me off track. It resigned me to thinking Mick probably wins from about ep.4 to merge (even though he gave me Marcus vibes). Then when Natalie's edit pickled up and Mick went UTR around the merge, I went back to my original view (with the suggestion of Ashley\Natalie collective editing). The juror interviews really made me sure Natalie wins.
Jedijake		#5776	[-]
Posts: 6061 (12/21/09 03:02 PM) MESS member Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Edgic is like a religious denomination, with the guidelines as our bible. Trying to reform them would be messy. They haven't changed in ages, despite many good criticisms.. People go on interpreting them selectiively and calling out others as heretics. "That's not edgic" - even if it helped you pick the winner. "We're proud to say our Mick pick was based on sound orthodox principles, even if it was wrong." If you disagree, you're an unbeleiver, biased, or a spoiler cheat. Boundaries get more rigid, more dogmatic . "That's story or thematic analysis - get out of here!" We quantify visibility by sentences spoken - and act like this is ALL there is to visibility. But even Atheists should know that while they are in church, the guidelines of religion are what need to be followed.
rioothello		#5777	[-]
Posts: 107 (12/21/09 03:04 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	JaimeCat22 wrote: rioothello is one of the drive-by Natalie spoiler readers, by the way. In case it wasn't already obvious. Find me rioothello posts in edgic before the F3 spoiler came out if you want to prove me wrong on that count. Yeah right, I hate spoilers. I started my support of her at the merge. Nice try loser.
guatemala fanfic		#5778	[-]
Posts: 5537 (12/21/09 03:04 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	craig wrote: As far as the nitpicking that since a winner wasn't spoiled (only a final three) then Natalie picks can't be stated to have been spoiled. I strongly disagree. One instance that would clear up who picked Natalie after spoilers came out would be someone who did a 180 on her after poo pooing her completely in the first couple of episodes. Just prior to spoilers, I argued Russell\Ashley > Mick because of the "dumb girl alliance" ep.1 and Mick's lack of substance. I figured Russ would boot Mick as a threat. The spoiler threw me off track. It resigned me to thinking Mick probably wins from about ep.4 to merge (even though he gave me Marcus vibes). Then when Natalie's edit pickled up and Mick went UTR around the merge, I went back to my original view (with the suggestion of Ashley\Natalie collective editing). The juror interviews really made me sure Natalie wins. I don't know if you openly supported Natalie in this thread, but even juror interviews should NOT be brought in here at all (and obviously the spoiler, since you clearly read it). If the point is to make a pick on Edgic, interviews shouldn't be swaying the decision.
gretchensucks		#5779	[-]
Posts: 958 (12/21/09 03:10 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	BlakeB717 wrote: gretchensucks wrote: BlakeB717 wrote: Jaison, in my opinion, edgically, should have been the picks of people who didn't think it was Mick. However, most of them picked Russell or Natalie AND MICK (hmm) Fixed...which is exactly my point. There really wasn't any final 3 winner spoiler. Just spec. Originally the spec pointed to Mick, then switched to Natalie. But never included Jaison. (hmmm) Once again, unless you can say that anyone CHANGED their picks to Mick AFTER the spoilers came out, then you have no argument. I'm aware that you aren't speaking to me, but to say the Mick-pick was run by spoilers is ridiculous IMO. He lost support as the season went on, not the other way around. At minimum Mick was spoiled final three before most people picked him (first couple of episodes), and Jaison wasn't. If you didn't place any importance on his placement as first among the three until the nasty food challenge, at least that much is true. Nuff said. "It's not rocket science." Last Edited By: gretchensucks 12/21/09 03:13 PM. Edited 1 times.
BlakeB717		#5780	[-]
Posts: 2787 (12/21/09 03:24 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Do you believe in love at first sight or should I walk by again ? Remove this ad cr said Mick was spoiled after Episode 4. Let's take a look: Mick's winner percentages (at this point you had to fill in 3 slots): E1: 45% E2: 61% E3: 73% E4: 98% < spoilers hit, interesting surge.. but it doesn't mean everyone was his top pick, only that he was in 98% of Edgic's top 3 contenders (which, based on the first few episodes, is pretty fair since everyone else had at least an INV at this point.. we had just lost Ashley and Liz, so only 5 people left didn't have an INV: Russ, Sham, Jaison, Mick, and Monica) Sham: Just got her OTTN episode Jaison: Got his quit episode Monica: 3 UTR1s and now an N episode at TC Russ: Self-explanitory So spoilers could have "confirmed" people's suspicious, but as of E4, Mick was our best pick, so I'm not sure we can really attribute spoilers to him. His stock slowly dropped form there, and Jaison's slowly grew. I think the real problem isn't the Mick supporters, rather the Russ and Natalie votes being the same as Jaison and Mick.. that, to me, comes across more spoiler-y than any Mick votes.

<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>

Yuku free message boards

S-19 Edgic (editing and logic)