ElisabethNelehHeidiRok wrote:No, actually she did not have a choice. That was the only way any of them were going to get to the finals was to allign with Russell. She was just lucky that the jury members were all weak and disgruntled that Russell outplayed all of them and weren't going to vote for him out of spite. She won because of the juries spite, not because she was the best player. She did nothing to keep herself there, Russell decided that she would be kept around.
reddawg wrote:Actually she did. She didnt have to align with him just because he asked.
First of all, Natalie didn't choose to allign with Russell, Russell chose her. She could have very easily been the 1st to go if Russell decided it. Russell definately played the best game and deserved to win.
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Congratulations Natalie White, winner of Survivor Samoa!!!
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 reddawg |
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Posts: 5 (12/21/09 11:49 PM) |
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roxbury123 |
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Posts: 683 (12/22/09 03:09 AM) |
I really have to disagree that as Jeff put it "The Jury didn't vote for Natalie they voted against Russell". I dont believe that at all. The fact
is aside from John EVERYONE voted FOR who they liked better. I dont think we had a Boston Rob situation where jurors (Alicia Big Tom) voted against Rob. The
fact is even Shambo her vote went to Russell because she liked him better. Had Sham been buddy buddy with Natalie, i'm sure she would have voted Nat. It
just happens Sham was buddy buddy with Russell. I really found no evidence in the jury question were people were bitter toward Russell. Steph, Boston Rob, Lil,
Twila, heck even Parv, all face much more bitter juries than Russell did.
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 crocophile |
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Posts: 11175 (12/22/09 03:18 AM) MESS Moderator |
You left out Shambo's "feckless."
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crocophile |
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Posts: 11177 (12/22/09 06:29 AM) MESS Moderator |
reddawg wrote: We don't know the only way to get to the F3 was with Russ, we know it was one way. F-F all worked together post merge to pull it off. The F-F were lucky that Galu imploded. Russell did not decide to keep Natalie along, the whole tribe did. Russell totally ignored the social aspect of the game. He blew it. |
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reddawg |
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Posts: 6 (12/22/09 10:05 AM) |
The jury blew it!! They voted against Russell, bottom line. You know it but just won't admit it because you hate Russell too!!! Much like the jury!!!
Natalie didn't have a clue, much like everyone in the game except Russell!! And yes, the ONLY way to the final 3 was with Russell. He CHOSE to keep
Natalie around. She could have very easily been gone instead of Jaison but Russell DECIDED to keep her around.
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GrenadeJumper85 |
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Posts: 15005 (12/22/09 10:19 AM) |
Oh my word! |
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crocophile |
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Posts: 11178 (12/22/09 10:24 AM) MESS Moderator |
I have no respect for Russell. He stupidly disregarded the social aspect of the game, unlike other anti-heros like Hatch, Brian and Chris who knew that how
they interacted did matter. He's a bully who thinks he can bluster his way into winning anything, and thinks people respect that. It may work when
someone is pushing around little people who have no recourse...Well the jurists didn't appreciate his crap, had recourse and Natalie knew just how to
handle his bull (and she's still doing it). And he keeps handing out his pitiful whining crap in every interview, what a loser.
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The Heartbreak Yid |
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Posts: 6846 (12/22/09 10:45 AM) Registered user |
JaimeCat22 wrote: The only Survivors who havnt ultimately faded into obscurity are Liz and Rich, and thats just because of his legal issues. Sure, Jenna pops up here and there, as will Colby. Other than that, Heidi married Cole Hamels, and thats about it. |
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Carol of the Bells Palsy |
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Posts: 166 (12/22/09 11:15 AM) |
No matter how arrogant, crass, rude, or a blowhard Russell was on camera (and towards his fellow tribemates off camera) he was clearly the better player this
season over Natalie.
His hard-nosed tactics and ability to talk others into doing his bidding and thinking the way he wanted them to, coupled with some original thinking on his part (i.e., looking for idols where they could logically be placed without the need of clues, and FINDING THEM) is what makes him one of the best players of Survivor to never win the game. Fans and supporters of Natalie can praise her "social" game all they want, the fact is she did nothing more than hide behind Russell and follow his directions the entire game, and then when the smoke cleared she came out from behind him with a big smile and absolutely no way of explaining her strategy logically to the jury besides using the old stand-by "I was nice to people and stayed out of everyone's way." The way the jury voted for Natalie (sans Shambo and John) was with a bitter heart and not a care about actual game play. |
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GrenadeJumper85 |
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Posts: 15007 (12/22/09 11:31 AM) |
Russell lost because of respect. That's the thing that gave Richard, Todd, Tom, JT, and Brian - people who played similar games to Russhole - the win.
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Jedijake |
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Posts: 6074 (12/22/09 11:42 AM) MESS member |
I don't know how people group JT with Tom, Todd, Brian, and Rich. JT never dominated the game. He is a great guy and a likeable winner underdog, but we
forget who really won it for him.
Coach took down his whole tribe. |
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Coachocd |
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Posts: 7984 (12/22/09 12:12 PM) MESS member |
reddawg wrote: Nonsense. I like Russell in the same way Dr. Sean liked Rich even though he was a scoundrel. Juries DON'T blow it. Each juror votes on their own criteria. When you are on a Survivor Jury, you can vote with the criteria that matters to you. Not one single jury or jury objectively decides anything even if they think they do. The audience didn't blow it when they picked Russell either. They voted for the person they wanted to get that $100,000. Accept the game for what it is instead of resenting that it is something that it is not. Being the "better player" means being aware enough of the jury and each juror to be able to win their vote. Remember, game masters like Rich and Brian also barely won their jury votes. Winning a jury vote is a whole different set of skills than scheming and plotting one's way to the top. Rich and Brian showed the most skill in getting to the finals, but Chris and Jenna M. showed the most skill in how to win a jury vote. |
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JaimeCat22 |
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Posts: 524 (12/22/09 12:20 PM) |
My rule of thumb has always been that every season they should at least make viewers understand why someone wins, even if we don't like that
person.
They did that with Parvati. Like her or hate her, we saw her game and understood it. They obviously did not do it with Natalie, hence the dozens of articles from both sides either railing against her win or attempting to justify it. I don't remember those articles being written in Parvati's season. Hopefully the fan reaction will be a lesson to the editors that they have to give people a reason to care about the winner, even if the winner isn't the star of the season. We know nothing about Natalie even though she was on our TV screens all season long. They could have replaced her with a mannequin and the viewer response to her win would have been nearly the same. |
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crocophile |
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Posts: 11179 (12/22/09 12:28 PM) MESS Moderator |
Better strategist? As GJ above....He disrespected everyone.You reap what you sew. Very few people are going to vote for someone who disrespects them.
Personal interactions are a MAIN part of startegy. His contained too much bluster and lies. He did not touch them at all, nor did he read them properly. Also
related he did not thing around camp.....And this is very bad: He totally underestimated his main competition. In fact he had no idea who
his main competition was.
Mick Trimming apparently wasn't much better at strategy. |
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reddawg |
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Posts: 7 (12/22/09 12:31 PM) |
The jury members even admitted to Russell after the reunion show that they made a mistake. Dave is the only one that didn't admit it.
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JaimeCat22 |
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Posts: 526 (12/22/09 12:33 PM) |
reddawg wrote: Obviously. Voting Natalie over Russell is almost as egregious as Shakespeare in Love beating Saving Private Ryan. It will be looked back on in disbelief years later. |
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BillGuido |
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Posts: 3512 (12/22/09 12:39 PM) |
JaimeCat22 wrote:Brilliant analogy. May I also add Gwyneth winning over Cate? |
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crocophile |
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Posts: 11180 (12/22/09 12:45 PM) MESS Moderator |
reddawg wrote:Who's the source....Russell? |
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GrenadeJumper85 |
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Posts: 15011 (12/22/09 12:51 PM) |
 @ Russell
Russell said in his post show interview that three of the people on the jury came up to him and told him they made the wrong choice. That was from Russell's mouth - NONE of those three people he listed said that in any of their post show or finale interviews. In fact, one of them was Kelly and in her post-show interview she was asked if he regretted her final vote after seeing to show. Her reply - Not at all. |
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IndyMom78 |
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Posts: 1 (12/22/09 01:25 PM) |
The premise of Survivor is to OUTWIT, OUTLAST, AND OUTPLAY. Natalie did not outwit Russell she just did everything he said. Since both were at the end she
didn't outlast him. And she didn't win anything so she didn't outplay him. The person who played the best game was hands down Russell. I
didn't and don't like him (I rank him down there with Johnny Fairplay) and personally I could not play the game with absolutely NO morals, but you have
to admit that Russell did play the best strategic game. I think the only reason Russell lost was because of his crassness and arrognace not necessarily
because he backstabbed people. Natalie would make an excellent doormat. Find someone to latch onto then let them walk all over her. I guess you could say
Natalie was the best direction follower. Because when they merged Russell told her, Mick, and Jaison to find the cracks. Russell was the mastermind and the
rest his followers. Congrats to Natalie on the win. I don't dislike her I just don't think she played the better game. But then again the person I
want to win never wins, lmao.
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