I'd argue that its impossible to wind up in a power position without a social game
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Is Russell really a good strategist?
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 Sshaaz |
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Posts: 648 (12/23/09 09:52 AM) |
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Yeaster |
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Posts: 7736 (12/23/09 09:56 AM) Registered User |
Russell got lucky.
He was making a million different moves each round---statistically speaking, at least one of them was bound to work. He had potential, but he played way, way too hard, showed everyone his cards and was incredibly transparent. In short: No. |
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Sshaaz |
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Posts: 649 (12/23/09 10:11 AM) |
Examining the outcome, I'd say Russell was categorically UNlucky.
Making a million moves shows me he was playing the game. Having one work shows me he was playing it pretty well. He did have potential. He was punished for playing way too hard. The way he played got him to the Final 3 (I'd argue Final 2, based on Mick) and had to pay the piper. He paid. |
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Lake Like The Ocean |
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Posts: 751 (12/23/09 10:13 AM) Registered user |
You people are ridiculous... imagine if this board had existed during Borneo and if Kelly had won by one vote. We'd have this same exact topic about Hatch,
with the same retards downplaying Hatch's excellent strategic game.
Russell played an amazing game and had the jury been fans of the show rather than Lynne Spillman's recruits who had never seen the show before, he would have won. That said, Russell should have accounted for the fact that the jury would be a bunch of bitter recruits who would be upset they got cheated out of more screen time and play accordingly. He didn't play a perfect game, but he played a good game. Mick may have had the leadership necklace, but Russell is the one who saved Foa Foa and don't forget it. Russell getting close to Shambo, finding the Hidden Idols, and winning the clutch challenge away from Brett is what won Natalie the game. |
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Yeaster |
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Posts: 7739 (12/23/09 10:17 AM) Registered User |
Sshaaz wrote: Good for you. But that shows me he's an overconfident dumbass (the worst kind). If any of the women approached each other and mentioned their alliances with Russell---he could've been the first one out. But he lucked out on their stupidity. Just like he lucked out on the stupidity of Galu. |
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MacKosNak |
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Posts: 277 (12/23/09 10:21 AM) |
The jury was dominated by Galu (?). I remember what Shambo said when she went to Fao Fao, that she was on a tribe who was more interested in stretching and
yoga (I'm paraphrasing here) than doing necessary chores to survive. Russell, like Shambo, was playing a different game than the majority of Galu people.
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Sshaaz |
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Posts: 650 (12/23/09 10:36 AM) |
How can you call Galu stupid then agree they made the right decision? It isn't mutually exclusive. You can't respect anything Galu did during the game,
then suddenly respect the outcome. You just can't. This has been my argument all along. I've put aside the fact that Russ and I are old friends when
formulating every opinion about the show. I'm praying that everyone else would just make the slightest attempt at putting their opinions about what he said
in confessionals, what he's done at the finale, etc. and just concentrate on what he did to accomplish what he did. I'm not saying he didn't make
mistakes or didn't overplay, I simply want to see logical reasoning as to why things happen like they did. I see several posts with lots of intelligent
arguments, and Yeaster, yours included, but the majority generally devolve into how fat Russell is, or how mean Russell is, or some other disparaging remark
about his heritage (which is mine, as well, but I've yet to get offended and go off on anyone...) Either way, lets keep going, because arguing is fun.
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susieq |
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Posts: 3606 (12/23/09 10:39 AM) Registered user |
Lake Like The Ocean wrote: So you're saying that the jury had ESP and knew how the season was going to be edited?!? I don't think so. I doubt that anyone there at the time said to himself "oh wow! Russell's going to get 90% of the screen time for our season. Let's screw him over because it's unfair." Survivor does include a social game. Always has and always will. Sue voted for Rich simply because she did not lke Kelly anymore. Nobody complains about her being bitter because most people think that Rich was the right winner. Jury members have been bitter since S1. |
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JPOz |
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Posts: 680 (12/23/09 10:42 AM) |
Russell had some great strategy and some not so great. The good pieces served him very well and his actions showing a desire to take the game seriously, pursue it as vigorously as he did, do not let weather/hunger beat you, be involved with everyone in the tribe and work like hell to get HII are good examples for anyone to follow. So yes, in many regards he is a good straegist. But he made some huge mistakes and it cost him the game. He says he loves and respects the game, seems like he believes he is and would want to be a role model for how to play the game - but if he would acknowledge that he did make some major blunders he could be a more powerful and better role model because then he could truly help future gamers understand and avoid pitfalls that led to him falling short of the title. |
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Sshaaz |
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Posts: 651 (12/23/09 10:49 AM) |
JPOz, I couldn't agree more. Russell said in a confessional "I should be out here with Superstars." I once thought this board was filled with
people who agreed with that sentiment. So, its sad that he wasn't out there with the kind of people who held the same passion for the game that he did. Its
almost as sad that this place doesn't have that same passion for it either.
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 PrettyGoodYear1988 |
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Posts: 3094 (12/23/09 10:50 AM) Registered user |
Sshaaz wrote: I didn't say that Russell didn't have a social game. He said at the finale that his social game consisted of building a strong alliance with Natalie, Mick, Jaison, and Shambo. But creating the majority alliance and putting yourself in the power position is only one half of the social game. Two of Russell's core alliance ended up in the finals with him, and only Jaison and Shambo were on the Jury. Even if they had both voted for Russell (which only Shambo did), that's still only two locked votes out of nine. The key to winning this season was winning over the Galu members who would make up the Jury, just like JT had to butter up the Timbira members last season (which, granted, was easy since people like Sierra, Debbie and Coach actively played for him to win). |
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Apprentice Talker |
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Posts: 11785 (12/23/09 10:53 AM) WRP Official Spokesperson |
Russhole is the best strategic person who founds the HII.
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Bobby Jon goes apeshit |
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Posts: 1545 (12/23/09 10:54 AM) |
Sshaaz wrote:Would you have some violin with that? |
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Sshaaz |
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Posts: 652 (12/23/09 10:58 AM) |
Yeah, Russell counted on Jaison's vote, which in all actuality, he should have gotten... He couldn't do much more than assume Erik was going to vote
for him considering the reactions he saw at Tribal Council. Then I'm almost 100% positive that the conversation with Brett about wanting to go up against
the strongest competitor was a social move. Russell was smart enough to know that Brett would have won hands down, so Brett was someone that had to go, and it
seemed like he knew why. I'd venture to guess that Russ was hoping for something more from Brett at FTC. Had he been able to answer anything from Brett, it
would have had the chance to swing that vote to him. He just didn't get the chance. Jaison, Brett, Erik...all he needed to win. But didn't get to say a
word to a single one of them.
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SuperJude |
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Posts: 16282 (12/23/09 10:58 AM) Registered user |
Let the overvaluing of Russell's game by the delusional Russtards CONTINUE!
-SJ™ |
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Greenkiwi |
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Posts: 94 (12/23/09 11:02 AM) |
Sshaaz wrote: Jenna Lewis. |
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Sshaaz |
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Posts: 653 (12/23/09 11:08 AM) |
See what I mean JPOz? Great point, kiwi
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khnum |
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Posts: 25833 (12/23/09 11:08 AM) dimply pooh bear |
Russell had a social game with the Foas, not with the Galus (save Shambo and John who hated their tribe). So yeah, he had a social game, he just overlooked
that he needed one with more people.
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Sshaaz |
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Posts: 654 (12/23/09 11:14 AM) |
It may not have been Prayer Warrior style, but I saw Russell sitting down with Brett and having a conversation that was 180 degrees opposite of how he is being
portrayed now. He sat with Dave and offered an olive branch, even offered to move him up a notch. I agree it doesn't match anything Natalie got to do, but
I don't think it was as non-existent as everyone here believes.
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SuperJude |
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Posts: 16286 (12/23/09 11:17 AM) Registered user |
Sshaaz wrote: They still didn't vote for him to win so...I guess those weren't really good social OR strategic moves. Not to mention maybe he should have kept one of the loud mouthed girls around for the endgame instead of the one person everybody was sure to like. -SJ™ |
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