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Sshaaz |
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Before I respond, is this the respectable flame-free SJ, or the one who came in a few posts back?
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SuperJude |
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Sshaaz wrote:It's all pretty arbitrary this week to be honest. I'm not pulling your chain either, this is the most random I've seen this place thus I'm adapting. I won't flame your response though, you seem to be trying to make logical points and not do the whole Angry Russtard bit. -SJ™ |
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FishNChips |
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To Sum it up Quickly, No.
Russell Lost. Natalie Won The Game, She was the better Strategist in the Game. She used Russell the way Russell used her, with Russell thinking the Jury would not vote for a Coat-Tails Player, And Natalie knew most of the Jury did not care for Russell to win. Nat may have thought the game was between her and Mick. She was smart enough to know at least 4 people would not vote for Russell right off the bat. Bottom Line: Russell Got H'Owhened by "The Cat in The Nat." |
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Sshaaz |
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Lol, ok I'll roll the dice.
I'm glad you said *really* good, because a good attempt that doesn't work is respected more than no attempt at all. The only loudmouth girl he could have taken was Shambo, and we all know he's regretting that right now anyway. That Final 3 had to be all Foa Foa to give himself a chance. We all know that, right? I know he was prepared for people to like Natalie, HE liked Natalie, so how could he not know? He made a promise to the Foa Foas that they'd get to the end, and if it wasn't for that pesky Brett, he'd have made good on that promise. At the point where someone *had* to go, he was true to Natalie, who had less of a shot at beating Brett than Jaison did. He protected her throughout. He's not getting much credit for that, since it seems to be a bad decision, but taking the end result out of the equation, it should show the difference between "Camp Russell" and "Confessional Russell." He thought he could beat her based on overall gameplay. We all agree he was wrong, theres just a few of us who thinks he may have had a point. Russtards, I think we're referred as? :)
Last Edited By: Sshaaz
12/23/09 11:37 AM.
Edited 1 times.
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JPOz |
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Re #35 - not talking to Brett, Jaison, Erik at FTC. The actual FTC took over an hour. We saw less than 15 minutes of it. We saw portions of each juror's
dialogue which showed us a key point of the story - e.g. the Brett-Mick exchange showed Mick did not relate to Galu. That part was aired because it was the
best example of that point or the most important story piece which came out of the questions Brett asked each of them.
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Sshaaz |
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That begs the question: Why show Russell all season long, then fail to show his FTC performance? It seems they picked the weakest of his responses to bolster
the epic downfall to come... Agreed?
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FourDozenEggs |
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Russel seems like a good strategist and knows how to play the game in that aspect. He just has a poor social game. If he realized this, he would have taken
someone less likable to the finals and probably would have won. But he was too caught up with himself and believed that everyone was like him and would vote
for the best strategist even if he is a jerk and a millionaire.
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MacKosNak |
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susieq wrote: I don't complain because of the time that has elapsed. I just totally believe Kelly was robbed and Sue was a bitter juror who had she had time to cool off would have voted for Kelly instead of voting with spite. Regarding Russ, if the majority of Galu were playing the same game as Russ he would have won. I think the majority of Galu were the touchy feely type of people that put more in 'lets take a moment to center ourselves at the start of the day' than physical work of surviving. They are the ones who prefer 'Chicken Soup for the Soul' than 'The Official Urban and Wilderness Emergency Survival Guide'. Shambo was more like Russ than any of the others on Galu. She had the same mind set as he did and respected similar things. (Mind you I am not saying Shambo ever came close to be like Russ in actuality, but that they seemed to respect the same things.) The jury was just composed of people that were not like Russ or Shambo. The game they were playing was different from Shambo's or Russ's because they really have different outlooks. Russ blew it in understanding this. But in my opinion I think he played the better game even if he only came in second. I think he won America's vote because the majority of Americans voting were not bitter jurors and respected the game Russ was shown to have played. The editing of this season was either out of whack and/or the producers really misread who the jury would vote for.
Last Edited By: MacKosNak
12/23/09 12:54 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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pinknailpolish |
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He is an awesome strategist but just should have been nicer. It doesn't seem like it's in his character but it's obviously what he should have
done. Natalie just did not have a strategy. She just skated by and unfortuantely Russell overestimated the intelligence of the jury. Her stategy was blah,
blah, blah. No it was nada. That's why she had to desperatley make one up for the meet and greet the jury. I mean he did create a sucessful company.
He obviously is pretty smart.
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MacKosNak |
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Russell underestimated how bitter people would act and vote.
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Sshaaz |
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Nat had a strategy, it was what you saw. Yeah, Russ gave credit where credit wasn't due and he paid for it. No matter what you read here, I'll tell you
that Russell isn't dumb at all, and he is a nice guy...its just a hard conclusion to come to based on what you see.
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Bobby Jon goes apeshit |
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Well geewiz, maybe if he stopped being a bitch about the whole thing, people would stop laughing at his shortcomings.
I wouldn't, but some people might. |
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Venatrix Avia |
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Regarding Russ, if the majority of Galu were playing the same game as Russ he would have won. Yes, yes. If Galu had known how to play the game, Russell would have won. How could he possibly have lost had he entered the merge with a huge numerical disadvantage and inferior challenge skills in comparison to a much smarter Galu tribe? |
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Sshaaz |
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Try seeing where he's coming from, which is difficult, I know... Its linear thinking. Imagine you were out there for 39 days and really put your heart and
soul into playing your game (don't judge the type of game, just make it "your" game.) Imagine taking stock into what you've accomplished
(you've overcome a lot of stuff, just make it a general impression, nothing specific to this particular season.) Then imagine that you've honestly
believed you have done everything you could have done (you don't know the outcome yet, so don't let that skew your line of thinking.) Then let the rest
play out like it did... Are you disappointed? If so, does anything you've just imagined raise or lower the level of disappointment? I know taking the moral
high road leads to a sever amount of disgust for the guy. But if you've imagined everything as it occurred, the laughing may be reduced to a chuckle or a
giggle.
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MacKosNak |
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Bobby Jon goes apeshit wrote:From his edit on the show, I did not like him. I did expect him to win if he got to the finals though. Right now I feel just very sad for him as it is obvious how much this meant to him. In a bit he might get perspective and see where he failed. I hope people don't think I was saying only Russell played the game or the game Russ was playing was the right one. It's not a matter of there being "a particular way" to play the game, but rather that different people were playing different games. I do think Galu's method (or the majority of Galu) was playing a touchy feely sort of game rather than the outright bad to the bone game Russ played. I do think that Shambo respected Russell's approach to the game over the rest of her tribemate's approach to the game. I think she felt more comfortable with Fao Fao than with Galu. Survivor like BB and others are |
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xoDC3xo |
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Sshaaz wrote:That's the thing. I do understand where he's coming from. I understand part of it may be his character he created. The whole planning of the socks at the finale shows me this. He planned to do it and get a rise from everyone. It was calculated. It doesn't excuse it and I thought his mis-directed anger at Natalie should have been aimed at himself, but anyway... I don't have anything against Russell, but why he's angry is why he lost out there on the island. He's refusing to acknowledge he lost and still doesn't see anything wrong with what he did out on the island. I've said on multiple occasions that I think he could be an amazing player. He did bulldoze to the final three but obviously in retrospect he had no chance at winning. I give him credit for getting two votes. He played decently but the show editing him like he did nothing wrong screws HIM over. Do you understand what I'm saying? Not only did Natalie get screwed, so did Russell.
Last Edited By: xoDC3xo
12/23/09 01:32 PM.
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Venatrix Avia |
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Of course I understand why Russell's disappointed. I think that he's handling that disappointment extremely poorly, but I'm not at all surprised
that he's upset. People always are, when they think they have the game in the bag and then it turns out that they didn't. Remember John Carroll? He
cried, too. Totally understandable.
It's more the reactions of his fans which lead to strange statements like the one I responded to above that amuse me, because...come on. If Galu hadn't been morons, Russell still wouldn't have won. Neither would Natalie. Instead, we would now all probably be debating whether the jury was being bittercakes in rewarding Brett over Laura, or whether Kelly really had game or was just a damn coattail rider, or something like that. |
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chidelta |
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It may not have been Prayer Warrior style, but I saw Russell sitting down with Brett and having a conversation that was 180 degrees opposite of how he is being portrayed now. He sat with Dave and offered an olive branch, even offered to move him up a notch. I agree it doesn't match anything Natalie got to do, but I don't think it was as non-existent as everyone here believes. . . . Sshaaz, you've made some credible points in this thread, but in some ways you are providing evidence for the opposition's argument. If he has the capacity to be a nice guy, why didn't he employ that strategy effectively when it counted, in the latter part of the game? He may have extended an olive branch to Dave and to Brett, but then he turned around and reneged on his promises, once again. Why make those promises to the low man on the totem pole if they were empty and unnecessary? If your argument is that he was trying to score points with a jury member by being "social", it was a weak effort much too late. For that very reason, I think Russell is a good strategist, but would never call him a great strategist. His ego was too big to be great. Think of it this way, let's say Russell played the same, balls-to-the-wall aggressive strategy in the first half of the game, and then injected a little humility in the later stages of the game when the jury members were watching, especially after Foa Foa began to get control of the numbers. For example, let's say his overall attitude around camp was to declare how lucky he was, or how blessed he was to have such loyal tribe mates, or how amazing it was that the underdogs managed to squeak by and survive in the face of a huge deficit in the numbers. Let's say for the sake of argument that he kept his mouth shut about finding idols, and never wore one around his neck, and generally held back with the gloating. Let's say he made it very clear to Dave, Brett and Monica that he was not going to entertain the thought of keeping them around because they were too dangerous in front of an all-Galu jury, and then proceeded to get them firewood and make them dinner while asking about their families. Let's say he never made up the story about being a firefighter and just said he owned a barge business. If he followed that strategy, and tapped into his inner nice guy, he would be cashing a check about now instead of griping about the bitch who stole his money. He was as self-centered as most of the jury members, and it cost him the game. |
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Sshaaz |
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About the socks...how would you have felt about Russell had he handed Jaison the socks? Jaison's bitterness led to them ending up in the fire. It was a
downward spiral since that moment... Not blaming Russell's behavior on Jaison by any means. But that was a defining moment in the post-show shenanigans.
Imagine the interview questions had Jaison had a new pair of socks. Perceptions would change, you have to admit
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Sshaaz |
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You make incredible points chi, and I agree with the majority of them. He put all of his eggs in the strategy basket. Nat put hers in the social basket. It was
a coinflip as to which would be rewarded. I think Russell had a harder time defending his lack of a social game than Nat had at defending her strategic game.
Because Nat's strat is a valid one, it was easy to beat Russell's social game, because there's no defending that. I want to believe that had
Russell changed his game and become the social butterfly, he wouldn't pull that off either. As dumb as Galu was, they wouldn't fall for that no matter
how sincere Russell would have been.
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