I agree, the Angel crossover was the best part of the episode! After three season of the Buffy/Angel melodramatic bullshit, I think this episode is exactly what their relationship needed to remain endearing to viewers.

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myopics |
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Ooo... Pangs! I can't remember much about it. Except that it left me with the impression that it was a very light-hearted, fun episode. Haha, by edgic,
this episode would be straight up MORP. Fairly straightforward story, no real exploration of deep themes and a more humourous atmosphere.
I agree, the Angel crossover was the best part of the episode! After three season of the Buffy/Angel melodramatic bullshit, I think this episode is exactly what their relationship needed to remain endearing to viewers. |
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Oaf |
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I think Pangs did deal with some important issues, it was just more political than about the characters, and was handled in a what-the-hell manner instead of
in a serious one.
And the usual subtle metaphor was substituted for the actual thing, which was unique. Next episode: Another loved interest leaves the show, and once again, it's in a rush. Oh, and I forgot to mention, more than a third of the list is over! That means we're now left with the best third and the worst third, and the episodes start to become really crappy and really good, accordingly. |
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CatLurvesDorothy |
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Oaf |
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Yep! Welcome to the thread. :)
My 46th least favorite Buffy episode of all time:
Title in Italian: "Lupi mannari". Season 4, episode 6. Written by Marty Noxon.
Oz's furry little problem is not so little anymore, as he gives in more and more to his wolf side and in the process, breaks Willow's heart.
'BtVS' has a bad habit of breaking up very solid couples over the course of one episode. "Lover's Walk", "The Prom", "Into the Woods", "Hell's Bells", and "Seeing Red" are just a few examples. But never has there been a couple so solid and dependable on the show as Willow and Oz. They were inseparable, and adorable, and right for each other, and, by the end of the episode, broken up.
Why did they do it is the easy question. Seth Green wanted out, in hopes of nurturing his promising movie career. Oops. But how did they go about it is the more important question, and the answer to which is the more complicated one. In short, they went about it the right way, but timed it horribly.
Basically, I loved the idea of the animal side of a werewolf taking over, even outside of those three nights a month. Almost always, werewolfness is featured as an "outside" problem - something that happens to you in a limited time each month and that the solution for it is pretty easy - lock yourself up in a cage. That's the way it is in "Harry Potter", and I haven't seen the "Twilight" saga and doesn't plan on doing so, but I guess it's that way in there as well. It's also that way with Angel\us, even though he's always agonizing as if it isn't. That way of looking at things SUCKS, and I'm so glad they've decided to insert some depth into the werewolf concept and make it more complicated than just Oz being able to enjoy 28 nights a month instead of 31.
What I hated is that they presented that concept in the same episode that Oz left the show. I understand that time restraints were probably involved in the decision making, but by golly, they could've at least turn it into a multi-episode arc, instead of just planting minor clues in "Living Conditions", "Fear, Itself" and "Beer Bad". Oz made the complete 180 degree change from being the most decent guy in the world to being the least, and it's understandable due to his "disease", but from a story point of view, it was very careless to introduce the problem a few minutes before deeming the problem unsolvable.
I tell you, everyone on the show is so lucky they have Alyson Hannigan on board, because she salvaged the episode from total failure. Or to be more precise, Alyson's big, expressive eyes saved it. No matter how contrived Oz's transformation was, and it was pretty contrived, you couldn't help but look into Alyson's adorable sad puppy face and feel that it's all so very real and terrible. She was so cute when she put on "sexy" clothes after Veruca insulted her birthday cake shirt; she was heartbreaking when she found the two of them together in the cage, dropping the things she was carrying in the process; and she was captivating when she finally broke down at the end of the episode, making Oz leave the room in the quickest way possible just to avoid the guilt and the pain. Alyson single-handedly saved the episode, as everything is much more acceptable and understandable through those big, big doe eyes of hers.
I get it: there are limitations and Joss and his stuff can't help but try to work around them. I truly get it. But this is not how you work around an actor's departure from the show. This is how you make an actor's departure worse, because you compromise the show's integrity in the process.
Best parts: Spike getting ridiculed, like in the first scene of the episode, is always nice to watch (except in the 7th season where he's never not ridiculed), and Giles being pathetic in the Bronze and while watching a quiz show on TV was hilarious.
Worst part: why would Professor Walsh, the secret leader of the secret military operation, voluntarily tell Buffy about the two "rabid dogs" that attacked her the night before? She's either to stupid to see, with all of her experience in the supernatural world, that these were, in fact, not rabid dogs, or she's stupid enough to tell someone else about the of her own accord. Either way, she's stupid. Or, much more likely, the writers got sloppy on this one. Why couldn't Buffy just overhear the conversation?
Quality Quotes:
(Giles is watching Jeapordy.)
OZ: Look, Buffy, you should know that--
Oh, and Oz, a word of advice: when you want to win your girl back, and she asks you: "But you wanted her... Like in an animal way? Like...More than you
wanted me?", your immediate answer should be: "NO, NO, NO!!!", instead of meaningful silence. Just something to think about in the future.
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CatLurvesDorothy |
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Oh, I've been reading. Just nothing to comment on. ^_^;
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myopics |
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Hmm... second episode in a row I don't have a strong impression of. For what it's worth, though Oz's departure wasn't handled well, I
didn't feel that it was contrived when watching this episode. Without reading that, I would not have guessed that the writers had to bend the storyline to
accommodate Seth leaving. The downfall of Willow/Oz perfection felt like it was *meant* to happen. However, for the life of me, I couldn't figure out what
this episode was supposed to be a metaphor for either.Was Veruca just meant to be someone a nice guy like Oz found extremely irresistible on a purely physical
level?
Can I ask you guys, what do you feel Oz brought to the show? I do like his character, thought he was a decent guy (I didn't think the business in this episode was his fault either), but I don't feel strongly about him. I know he was the launching pad for the initial stages of Willow's development, but what else? I know Oz has a pretty decent fanbase. So I'm asking cuz I do like his character and would like to develop a deeper appreciation for his character. Are there other elements to Oz that I'm missing here? |
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Oaf |
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I think it was supposed to be a tale about the men having this beast inside of them that can't be control by love or devotion - kinda like "Beauty and
the Beasts", when you come to think about it.
And I agree that Oz's character didn't bring much to the table besides a little dry humor and being a big part in Willow's character development, but it's not like he was hogging the airtime, so I enjoyed him as a minor character. |
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tomash |
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The Willow/OZ breakup stuff -> Willow suddenly "becoming" a lesbian not far after was always one of the weaker story lines in the series IMO. Yes
there was some foreshadowing in S3, but I think it would have made much more sense to just make Willow a bisexual.
I don't really have anything else to add, I just wanted to say I'm still reading and enjoying your rankings^^ |
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Oaf |
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thanks for the comment, tomash, it's nice to know that you're reading even without always commenting.
same to you, CatLurvesDorothy. And I agree that Willow's "transformation" into a lesbian was a little too sudden, it would've made more sense if she had explained that her love is adressed not towards a gender but towards a person, but I guess that explanation went out the window when she started snuggling with Kennedy. Clue for the next episode: it's tipe to play the pusic, it's tipe to light the lights. |
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myopics |
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Lol, whhhaaaat? I don't get it. The Prom?
Lol, so true. I guess there's nothing to gripe about regarding Oz since he didn't have the airtime to develop in the first place. |
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Katy Carney |
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Pangs <3333 One of the best holiday episodes of any show ever.
Wild At Heart meh. I never really cared for Oz. |
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Oaf |
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It's tipe to play the pusic
It's tipe to light the lights t's tipe to peet the Puppets on the Puppet Show tonight... My 46th favorite Buffy episode of all time:
Title in German: "Buffy lässt die Puppen tanzen" ("Buffy Makes the Puppets Dance") Season 1, episode 9. Written by Rob Des Hotel and Dean Batali.
Someone pulls organs out of the talent show participants. Could it be that freakish dummy that seems to have a life of its own?
Let's talk a little about the show's growth over the first season: The first step was, of course, in the first episode, where the show established itself as unique yet raw. On the fifth episode we learned that the show wouldn't rely solely on the "monster of the weak" format, and instead we'd sometimes get episodes that are connected to the seasonal arc. On the seventh episode, the show enriched its mythology and showed us that it had more to offer than what it initially looked like. And then, on the ninth episode (which we're here to discuss), the show proved that it could kick ass on a weekly basis, and pull off stuff that no other show on TV could at the time (and to this day).
Yes, there has been misdirection before (the witch is Amy's mom! The anointed one is that kid!). Yes, there has been humor before. Yes, there has been a spin on traditional horror clichés before. But never before has there been such a combination of those ingredients, mixed together to put on a final crazy, bizarre, unexpected completely entertaining freak show. Just watch the episode and tell me if you've seen anything like that. Just watch it and tell me that you could have thought up this one yourself if you had wanted to. Well, you're lying, you couldn't have, because this episode's insane. In a very good way.
I didn't see the twist coming, because I didn't expect there to be one. I thought a malicious talking dummy was more than enough. But they fooled me, and there's nothing more endearing than a though-to-be malicious talking dummy that turns out to be a heroic demon hunter, who's also incredibly horny. Angel's fifth season gets all the credit for utilizing the awesomeness and creepiness of dummies, but it was done, like, seven years before that, and it was just as effective.
And let's just say it like that: Snyder joining the cast didn't hurt. He's a great addition to the series, and the scene in which he catches the Scoobies making fun of Giles, and makes them take part in the talentless show, proves it.
This is the first time we got damning proof that 'Buffy the Vampire Show' could make for one hour of endless fun and hilarity and wackiness, but the kind of wackiness that knows it's wacky and makes wacky jokes about it. And what more could you ask for from an episode about dummies?
Best part: don't you think that I forgot the greatest thing about this episode: Buffy, Xander and Willow's reenactment of Oedipus. Wow, so much greatness in such a short time. From the mechanic way Buffy and Xander perform their lines, to Willow running away and the other two closing the gap she had left behind. It's so good, and probably still holds up as one of the best comedy bits the show has ever done.
Worst part: There's a scene when Snyder wanders alone in the basement-like area of the school that I never really got. It was long and pointless. Maybe it was to throw us off and make us suspect Snyder of all the bad deeds being done? If so, than it wasn't clear at all from that scene.
Quality Quotes:
CORDELIA: I don't understand why I... why I have to follow Brett and his stupid band.
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Paparazzi |
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Ugh, Oz's departure from the show was so
And I also enjoyed The Puppet Show. It definitely was the first really great episode of the show, IMO. It's been a while since I've seen all of the episodes (I feel a Buffy Marathon coming up) but weren't they always throwing in red-herrings about Snyder being evil like the one you mentioned? |
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myopics |
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Lol, I don't get the riddle. How come the m's were replaced with p's? Anyway, I love The Puppet Show too!
Yeah, I did not see the twist coming at all. I thought it was going to be a straightforward but fun episode about an evil dummy. All the Cordelia gags in this episode were awesome! It is a really good example of a strong episode from back when the series was still innocent, well as innocent as BTVS can get at least. Come to think of it, I think the series really grew up with its original audience. Season 1 would have been enjoyable to someone in their mid-teens, and as the series progressed... the issues portrayed remained relevant to that audience and their age group. Snyder was a good addition to the show, but I wished they had used him a little more. He was basically just a one-note foil for the main characters the whole time. His appearance in Xander's dream in Restless was so random that it was kinda awesome. |
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Oaf |
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paparazzi wrote:
Ugh, Oz's departure from the show was soLike I've said, I'm not to angry at the writers for not developing Oz as a character because he worked really well as a low-key feel-good comic relief. and I guess they wanted us to suspect Snyder of up-to-no-goodness, but it would've been nice had they given us reason to suspect so, instead of a few shots of him standing in dark corridors looking sinister. myopics wrote: The clue was supposed to be a play on the muppet show song, with M's replaced by P's because that was the case in the title: "The Puppet Show" instead of "The Muppet show". Kinda lame, I know. I think you're right in that the show has grown along with the fans, but it was also the case of the writers realizing slowly what they could actually do within the limits and wanting to challenge themselves. I don't think it was ever a straight-up case of "let's make this show intentionally childish so that we could let it grow up over time". |
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Oaf |
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Happy new year, and an even happier new decade!
I'm crushed and devastated to say that the next write-up will be posted tomorrow afternoon. And the clue? In the words of Jeff Probst in S12, "I've already given it to you". |
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myopics |
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Yay, Happy New Year! Woo!
Haha, next episode: Crush? |
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Oaf |
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My 45th least favorite Buffy episode of all time:
Season 5, episode 14. Written by David Fury.
Willow has a crush on Tara, Tara has a crush on Willow, Xander has a crush on Anya, Anya has a crush on Xander, Dawn had a crush on Xander, Dawn has a crush on Spike, Drusilla has a crush on Spike, Harmony has a crush on Spike, Spike has a crush on Buffy, Buffy has a crush on herself, Giles has a crush on Joyce, Joyce has a brain tumor.
I've decided to add a little segment for those of you who have forgotten what exactly happened in the featured episode, called In short:
SPIKE: Buffy, I will act awkwardly around you for no apparent reason. BUFFY: Okay, I will read that as Spike just being Spike DAWN: It's obvious that he has a crush on you, though. BUFFY: That cannot be. SPIKE: Dawn's right, I'm desperately in love with you and am willing to go good for you, and for proof I will now kill the former love of my life, Drusilla. BUFFY: Eww.
This is an episode that I'm supposed to really like, in theory. It's extremely focused on explaining the characters' motives and pushing them forward: Spike finally confesses his love for\obsession with Buffy, considers going rogue but decides against that because it would squash the little chance he has with Buffy.
For that purpose, Drusilla is brought in, to show what Spike is letting go of, the huge sacrifice he is making. Harmony is also thrown in for the "so many love interests!" affect and for comic relief.
But I think that's what ended up hurting the episode: everything is so out in the open, that it leaves nothing to your imagination. They literally put the three women in Spike's life (if you don't count dawn) together in a room and made him choose. Spike's dark "period" was literally two seconds of him dancing in the bronze and drinking a dead woman's blood. The scenes in the entire episode could easily be labeled as "Spike contemplates going evil again", "Spike proves Buffy he loves her", "Buffy letting Spike know it ain't happening", etc. and that's not a good sign at all.
And if that's not enough, the emotions the characters are experiencing are not that complex like they would have you think. Spike is just madly in love with Buffy, doing everything to win her over, and Buffy is disgusted with the idea. That's it. Later on, these feelings will change and become entangled, but for now, they're not worth wasting an entire episode over, from beginning to end, without any subplots to break the monotony.
What more, Drusilla, who's easily one of the better characters in the Buffyverse, and maybe in the world, was a huge disappointment in this cameo. Instead of the charmingly-psychotic, amusingly-cryptic, subtly-evil character we've come to know and love and be afraid of, all we got here was a blatantly-psychotic, slutty, blunt buffoon who is nothing like the original Drusilla. I don't know what it is - perhaps it's because this time she comes with an agenda that doesn't suit her easy-going evil ways, perhaps it's because David Fury just doesn't know how to write for her - but it was sad to see the once-amazing character go to waste here.
The episode is not all bad, because James Marsters is awesome even when his scripted character is one-dimensional, and there are a lot of comedy gems spread around, but all in all, I don't like it when they tell me what the story is, instead of letting it unfold naturally.
Best part: definitely Buffy in the train, sinking into the chair with the dead man's mark on it. Perfect piece of improvised directing that probably wasn't in the script. Also, Spike acting evil by stealing Xander's change. And the end of the episode, in which Spike is dis-invited into the house, was also very poignant.
Worst part: Buffy's one-note reaction to Spike's show of affection ("Yuck!"). Quality Quotes:
BUFFY: She thinks that ... she said that ... Spike's in love with me.
BUFFY: Is this a date?
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thehalford |
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Aww nuts. I'm watching S5 for the first time at the moment (yes I know, I'm a bad person) and was going to get up to Crush probably this weekend (just
finished Into the Woods). I'll keep my expectations low accordingly.
Other episodes I have not commented on as yet: Pangs - I enjoyed it, especially the bear bit. And you missed the quote where Buffy is taking Giles to task about calling them Indians: Buffy: They like to be called Native Americans now. Giles: All this new terminology is confusing me, I'm still trying to not call you lot bloody colonials. Something like that anyway. Wild at Heart - It's the same sort of thing as Buffy/Angel, what Willow/Oz had, except in this case when Oz is bad he seemingly has no control over what he does and doesn't remember what he did as the wolf, is that right? In that case I would have expected Willow to be a little more forgiving of Oz when Ozwolf slept with Verucawolf. But yeah, it's all a very sudden "OMG I can't handle this anymore even though we've managed fine for two years" episode. |
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myopics |
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^^^^^^
Heya! Welcome. What do ya think of season 5 so far? Have you completed seasons 6 and 7? |
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