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ShanesThinkingSeat wrote:

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ilovekelly752 wrote:

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ShanesThinkingSeat wrote:

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ilovekelly752 wrote:

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ShanesThinkingSeat wrote:

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ilovekelly752 wrote:

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I agree with the OP. Todd would've won with the Samoa jury, because they would've at least liked him. Russell only really got along with Shambo and John, and look what votes he got. Todd made friends with every single person he played the game with, and to this day is friends with all of the Zhan Hu he played with.

Also, Brian got lucky that Clay and Ted hated each other.

I honestly think Brian had all 4 of his FTC votes locked up. IMO, there is no way any of Jake/Jan/Helen/Ted weren't gonna give Brian their votes, and he knew that. Clay's idiotic responses to Jake/Helen/Ted definitely didn't hurt Brian, but I seriously doubt any of the 3 of them would've voted for Clay had he given a different answer.

Another thing about Brian is that his strategy with the jury was to concentrate on getting just the four votes he needed to win. That's why I don't feel like his one-vote win over Clay should be viewed as a reason why he is not quite as good as winners like Tom.

Brian planned to take Clay to the end before Clay and Jake started disliking each other, and before Clay and Ted started disliking each other, so if that didn't happen, and Brian had no way to know it was going to happen, Clay could've gotten their votes. I swear I'm not just saing this for the argument, but when I rewatched Thailand and Jake asked his question to Clay, I was thinking, "He could get this vote with a Todd-JR answer." Brian was a great player, because he won, but I think comparing him to someone like Todd who played a brilliant social game, and got along with every player isn't really accurate. Brian was also assuming like Shii Ann. What if the first final three was in Thailand? Who would Shii Ann have voted for, the person who got along with her, or the person who didn't know her name?

Even though Brian's plan all along was to have Clay be his F2 goat, he could've changed this at any time if he felt Clay would be able to beat him in jury votes. He could've selected anyone out of CG. If he was threatened by Clay, he could've made Jan the new goat. No matter what anyone says, I REFUSE to believe that Jan would've beaten Brian. I think it would go:

Erin: Jan
Ken: Jan
Penny: Jan
Jake: Brian
Ted: Brian
Helen: Brian
Clay: Brian

As far as if there was an F3 in Thailand, I could see Brian winning the votes of Helen, Ted, Jake. I think Ken and Penny would vote Clay, and Erin would vote for Jan. Shii Ann's vote would be a toss up, but IIRC she got along w/ Brian just fine and she wasn't there when he forgot what her name was.

Brian and Todd both adapted well to the situations they were in. It benefited Todd to befriend everyone, whereas that could've hurt Brian, so it wasn't worth the risk for him to bond w/ SJ. Both of them won getting 4 of the 7 jury votes. I just think Brian's complete game control puts him above Todd as far as how good of a game they played. At no point pre-merge in his own tribe, or post-merge, was Brian not deciding who was leaving the game.

Brian actually wanted Jake out instead of Penny, so it's not like he was in complete control with every elimination. The first couple of eliminations were consensi, and Ghandia's was orchestrated by Ted. I think Todd and Brian had about equal control, but in Thailand, it wasn't like where Todd had to turn his allies against each other to blindside them. The Thailand elimination order might as well have been on autopilot. Also, I don't think Helen would've hesitated to write down Jan's name in the final three, or in the final two over Brian. She hated Brian at the time. She called him te epitome of a trashy used car salesman, and she was crying. I think Ted might've done the same thing, although I'm less sure about that one.

I can't see that happening, but there's no way to know for sure. But with Brian wanting Jake out over Penny, he still realized Penny was just as much of a threat and that's why he agreed to vote her out. If he really wanted Jake out that badly, it would've happened. Either way, the 3 SJ's were going to be the first to go once the merge hit, so I don't think it should matter that much. Brian was also the person who convinced Helen to vote w/ the men to oust Ghandia.

Right, but that's no more control than Todd had. Also, like you said, the 3 SJ's would be first anyway, so it's not like he had to do that much convincing. Let's say Jan and Helen were as close as Courtney and Frosti were. It's not like Brian would've been able to convince everybody to vote out Jan with Jake and Penny still in. The China order was much more elaborate than the Thailand order. The Thailand order for Brian went, the guy who drove everybody crazy, the girl who was sick, one of the two people causing the tribe division, the physical threat, the last two SJ left, then the other three. The only ones I think he should really get that much credit for were Ghandia, Ted, and Helen, and I guess you can also count Jan. He has multiple deals going which was the glue that kept them to the final five, and let him have his pick of what happened from there, but Todd did at least that with a social game, and had more twists, and more strategic players like Jaime, PG, and Amanda.

Paparazzi wrote:

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I think Todd was definitely top 4 winners ever, but he did have a lot of help from Amanda. In episode 6 Todd wanted to vote out Jean-Robert over Sherea, but Amanda convinced him not to. Maybe it was just editting that made it look like this though. If Jean-Robert had been voted out that night, the tribes merge 5-5, so even considering voting for Jean-Robert was a stupid move on Todd's part. Fortunately, he didn't go through with it, and won :)

Sherea and Frosti were a lot closer to Todd than they were with Jaime, Erik, and PG, especially Frosti. They were at 7-3 whether Sherea or JR went home.