astroline wrote:
Candace is so overrated. She's bland, snobby and sucks at the game. If Sierra had accepted the offer we would have had a REAL hero instead.
Um? which one?
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CR ranks Survivor's 371 Survivor Characters - FINISHED!!!
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 SirCrocodilep |
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Posts: 2157 (01/31/10 02:17 PM)
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Um? which one? |
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LaurenTheLush |
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Posts: 5361 (01/31/10 03:11 PM) |
astroline wrote:Ummmm, no. |
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The Purple Parrot |
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Posts: 12135 (01/31/10 05:08 PM) Registered user |
Candice shot her own game in the foot. She could have swallowed her pride and gone to the final 5/4 with Aitu OR she could have waited until the merge to opportunistically flip on the Aitus and then she probably really would have gone far. Mutinying was an awful awful decision and only painted her as public enemy number one to the Aitus.
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Rafting Persona Queen |
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Posts: 113 (01/31/10 05:12 PM) |
People over simplify. One thing is, she only had ten seconds to decide. Another is that she didn't want to be perceived as a follower or too UTR in case she did get in front of a jury. Also she was a big fan of the show and probably a part of her just wanted to make a big move and be controversial. Also, there's no way she could have foreseen all of the twists it would take to neutralize the advantage in mutinying.
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Thailandsurvivor |
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Posts: 9700 (01/31/10 05:39 PM) |
People are saying Candice is overrated when Sandra is still on this list? Rob's social game wasn't great, but it was no worse than Sandra's. He at least played a great strategic game.
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Mikester |
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Posts: 8547 (01/31/10 06:32 PM) |
LaurenTheLush wrote:Well put.astroline wrote:Ummmm, no. |
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kenc333 |
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Posts: 10316 (01/31/10 06:52 PM) |
I think what astro is trying to say isn't that Candice doesn't deserve to be cast (although I'm sure he thinks that too =P), but that she's not a Hero and doesn't belong on the Heroes tribe. Probst's explanation of why she's there is the most ridiculous back-pedalling on a full season's worth of editing ever. The mutiny was seen as traitorous, the 'white alliance' was edited to be villainous, lazy and undeserving and Candice was edited to be evil and cold so we wouldn't feel bad for her when she was exiled repeatedly.
Sierra, on the other hand, while you may not have liked her, came across heroically, or at least as the 'anti-Coach' (no, that wasn't Erinn  ), and she was the underdog from the first few minutes. She was given a very positive edit, and that's what the Heroes vs. Villains sorting was going by. |
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FarnsworthFan |
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Posts: 261 (01/31/10 07:11 PM) |
Candice SHOULD get an A+ in every section of everyone's writeup (including a new section entiled "Producer's Jealousy")
Anyway I really hope the next person out is Sugar because her endgame lacked common sense. |
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FarnsworthFan |
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Posts: 262 (01/31/10 07:23 PM) |
JackSparrowBauer wrote:I disagree: Brendan was a bigger threat and was targeting JT just 3 days earlier while Coach was bffing him/ less of a threat. If Tyson didn't have immunity that round then I would agree but he did and taking out Coach would have made zero sense. JT did everything right during Coach's boot and STEPHEN was stupid for letting JT get away with not voting Coach out. Debbie's boot wasn't a mistake...she was unstable and could change her loyalty @ any second. You should know that from our discovery of her conflicting interviews. His only wrong move was voting out Taj which I will say was extremely stupid on his part. All of the other moves he made makes some sense. |
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JackSparrowBauer |
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Posts: 4730 (01/31/10 07:26 PM) |
kenc333 wrote:Yes, Erinn was the anti-Coach. "Dragonslayed." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "wah wah Coach hates me Tyson is so mean I have strep throat but omg don't vote me out just because I'm sick o wait Jerry's sick let's vote him out wah wah everyone hates me again because I'm a pathetic leech who lacks a spine and I'm basically a 5 year old." Erinn gave way more anti-Coach confessionals, she actually beat Coach, she was the one who Coach hated for giving the evil grin (lolol @ that), she called him out on his BS (the whole martyr approach thing), and she was just all around better in every way. Even Taj was a better anti-Coach than Sierra was. Candice shot her own game in the foot. She could have swallowed her pride and gone to the final 5/4 with Aitu OR she could have waited until the merge to opportunistically flip on the Aitus and then she probably really would have gone far. Mutinying was an awful awful decision and only painted her as public enemy number one to the Aitus. Going to the Final 5/4 with Aitu when she was anticipating a Final 2 would've been stupid, because there was no way either Yul or Becky would take her to the Final 2. With Raro, in an Adam/Parv/Candice Final 3, both of them would've taken her to the Final 2 and she would've beaten both of them, too. And like I said before, she used the mutiny as an opportunity to get rid of the Aitus (who she was eventually going to betray anyway) out before the jury. Everyone who says that Candice was stupid to mutiny is using the benefit of hindsight. In Candice's position at the time, she never could've seen the bottle twist/late merge/early jury/Jonathan's supreme idiocy/challenges slanted towards Aitu coming. Without the heaviest case of producer interference in the show's history, Candice wins.
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JackSparrowBauer |
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Posts: 4731 (01/31/10 07:36 PM) |
FarnsworthFan wrote:JackSparrowBauer wrote:I disagree: Brendan was a bigger threat and was targeting JT just 3 days earlier while Coach was bffing him/ less of a threat. If Tyson didn't have immunity that round then I would agree but he did and taking out Coach would have made zero sense. JT KNEW that Brendan wanted to go to the end with him and that Brendan basically wanted him to win. He and Stephen discussed it before TC at the F9 episode. JT would've had an easy coast to the win in a Brendan/Sierra/JT/Stephen/Taj Final 5. But instead JT chose the path towards a Final 5 of him/Stephen/Coach/Tyson/Debbie (that was what he wanted to do, he said so in an insider clip.), but fortunately for him, Erinn and Stephen changed the plan to take Tyson out, but even with that alliance, he put himself in a position where he needed to win the last 2 immunities in order to make the Final 4. I know Stephen screwed up with the Coach boot (by letting JT vote for Erinn), too, but that doesn't change the fact that JT letting Stephen boot Coach was stupid. Coach wanted to take JT to the Final 2, but Erinn wanted JT gone right after Coach. JT loses immunity at the Final 4 with Erinn, he gets 4th place. JT loses immunity at the Final 4 with Coach, he's tied (at the worst case for him) and he makes the Final 3 anyway because he wins the tiebreaker. He retardedly put himself in a position where nobody would take him to the Final 2 and he needed immunity to make the Final 3.
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FarnsworthFan |
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Posts: 264 (01/31/10 07:38 PM) |
ugh you wait to respond when you know I have to leave!!!! |
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JackSparrowBauer |
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Posts: 4733 (01/31/10 07:41 PM) |
FarnsworthFan wrote:oh yeah I definitely hacked into your Alabamian computer and saw that you needed to leave precisely now to go to the local trailer park show T_T <3
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kenc333 |
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Posts: 10317 (01/31/10 07:42 PM) |
Sierra's anti-Coach argument was way better than Erinn's one comment at the F5. We only saw part of it on the show, and it carried over into the insider clips, but it was so epic <3 I'll have to find it.. Sierra was a much more unique, dynamic character to me, and not many other people could've played her role. Erinn had a few snarky confessionals, but really wasn't all that relevant. "Dragonslayed" would've been better had she been responsible for getting rid of him in some way, rather than being used by JT/Stephen for a vote. =/
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JackSparrowBauer |
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Posts: 4734 (01/31/10 07:43 PM) |
Welll, she did kind of turn on Coach to get herself into a position where she was voting him out.
Sierra isn't a dynamic character at all. She was just the pathetic leech that everyone hated and whined and acted like a 5 year old the whole time. Seriously, put a 5 year old in her place and we'd have the same result. Everything about that wench makes me want to vomit.
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kenc333 |
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Posts: 10318 (01/31/10 07:55 PM) |
Okay I promise, I'll end the Sierra discussion after this. I don't even know how it's in this thread, when it'd be more suited to astro's thread...
But this is the continuation of the "You're such a liar!" clip we saw on the show. I love Sierra's quote: "I'm tired of hearing your dragonslayer mumbo jumbo and this 'honourable man'. Fall on your sword because you lied" It was so passionate and unrehearsed <3 It's up there with Erinn's "Who is this jackass?", and Taj's "Any grown man who believes he's a dragonslayer belongs in a mental institution", and "And you know if he woulda won today, the *warrior* woulda been back". (Personally, I love Taj's quotes about Coach over Erinn or Sierra's =O) And then she breaks the fourth wall at 1:00  |
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AveryC |
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Posts: 297 (01/31/10 08:00 PM) |
Everyone who says that Candice was stupid to mutiny is using the benefit of hindsight. In Candice's position at the time, she never could've seen the bottle twist/late merge/early jury/Jonathan's supreme idiocy/challenges slanted towards Aitu coming. Without the heaviest case of producer interference in the show's history, Candice wins.The problem is that based on the information Candice had, she had the numbers to overthrow Yul/Becky. She thought she had Sundra. Ozzy had offered her an alliance the very day before and would have been eager for any alliance that came his way. That's 3 votes out 6 already. With that she'd easily get Jonathan to prevent a tie and low and behold, Candice is in power and has removed her biggest threats. Of course she didn't know the following: - Yul had the idol - Yul had Sundra and Ozzy loyal already But based on what Candice knew and could have known she had the power to change her fate or be secure where she was. That's why I'll always consider her mutiny a bad move. challenges slanted towards Aitu coming. Cook Islands was full of swimming/puzzle challenges and she knew that the tribe she was going to had a poor record. Besides remember how Jenny owned the puzzle challenge just the round prior? Or how Raro were 2- 0 in the Final 12 immunity and almost won? Or how they decided to put Rebecca in an immunity challenge whilst being fully aware of her flaws? Jonathan's supreme idiocyIf Candice had actually, you know, told Jonathan she wanted him in the Final 3 then that could've been avoided. That's ignoring the fact he was screwed either way mind and chose an option that can be rationalised. Without the heaviest case of producer interference in the show's history, Candice wins.If you mean things goes Candice's way and she gets the Candice/Jonathan/Adam Final 3 she wanted than I agree. I don't think that could be reality though since one of the 3 probably gets idolled. One question: Exactly how do you suggest the extra person is removed without the bottle twist? And it can't be another Double boot like in Episode 6 since they've never repeated a twist the same way in a season. |
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JackSparrowBauer |
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Posts: 4736 (01/31/10 08:22 PM) |
*vomits everywhere* at the Sierra video. "I don't care if I go home tonight"
that's why pieces of crap like her should never be cast. I doubt Sierra "exposing" Coach had anything to do with people thinking Coach was a fraud. I'm sure people were well aware of that before she "exposed" him. The problem is that based on the information Candice had, she had the numbers to overthrow Yul/Becky. She thought she had Sundra. Ozzy had offered her an alliance the very day before and would have been eager for any alliance that came his way. That's 3 votes out 6 already. With that she'd easily get Jonathan to prevent a tie and low and behold, Candice is in power and has removed her biggest threats. That would've been kind of risky still. Too much of that was uncertain and she ran the risk of losing Yul and Becky's jury votes anyway. Her position at Raro was still much more secure than her position at Aitu. Cook Islands was full of swimming/puzzle challenges and she knew that the tribe she was going to had a poor record. Besides remember how Jenny owned the puzzle challenge just the round prior? Or how Raro were 2- 0 in the Final 12 immunity and almost won? Or how they decided to put Rebecca in an immunity challenge whilst being fully aware of her flaws? She and Jonathan were 2 of Aitu's best at challenges, and a tribe of 6 people that were good at challenge plus 2 bad ones (and Jenny wasn't even that bad) would normally be expected to beat a tribe of 2 people that are good at challenges plus 2 bad ones. If Candice had actually, you know, told Jonathan she wanted him in the Final 3 then that could've been avoided. That's ignoring the fact he was screwed either way mind and chose an option that can be rationalised. Candice had already promised him Final 4, plus she was at Exile all the time so she didn't really have a whole lot of time to discuss things with him. She asked him if Yul said anything about the idol before the F9 TC, and he lied to her. Jonathan siding with Aitu could never be rationalized. If you mean things goes Candice's way and she gets the Candice/Jonathan/Adam Final 3 she wanted than I agree. I don't think that could be reality though since one of the 3 probably gets idolled. They would've had enough numbers to get around the idol. One question: Exactly how do you suggest the extra person is removed without the bottle twist? And it can't be another Double boot like in Episode 6 since they've never repeated a twist the same way in a season. I have no idea, but I would expect something a little less blatantly unfair than the bottle twist.
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AveryC |
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Posts: 298 (01/31/10 08:50 PM) |
That would've been kind of risky still. Too much of that was uncertain and she ran the risk of losing Yul and Becky's jury votes anyway. Her position at Raro was still much more secure than her position at Aitu.She only had 10 seconds to think about it though, and her position was only guranteed based on secondary infomation from Nate. Had she had more time it would've made far more sense. She and Jonathan were 2 of Aitu's best at challenges, and a tribe of 6 people that were good at challenge plus 2 bad ones (and Jenny wasn't even that bad) would normally be expected to beat a tribe of 2 people that are good at challenges plus 2 bad ones.Becky and Sundra weren't all that bad themselves. The trouble with Raro is that they had no real sense of leadership or smartness at challenges (which is both their own fault for voting off anywhere who tried to establish any, and indeed something Candice couldn't have expected.) Candice had already promised him Final 4, plus she was at Exile all the time so she didn't really have a whole lot of time to discuss things with him. She asked him if Yul said anything about the idol before the F9 TC, and he lied to her. Jonathan siding with Aitu could never be rationalized.Based on his interviews the following things become clear: - Nate and likely Parvati outwardly disliked Jonathan before he voted against Raro. I believe Nate had made insults about Jonathan's family. - Ozzy also disliked Jonathan and he was aware of it. - Candice's deal with Jonathan was shaky enough he didn't believe it was reality. Plus it required Nate or Parvati who visibly despised him. - Yul offered Jonathan Final 2, the only such offer that existed based on what he knew. Either way 4 people would be pissed off. Also if the idol would've been rehidden (which we've never got confirmation on, have we?) he'd be screwed regardless. His position was a dreadful one and he made a decision that made some sense. They would've had enough numbers to get around the idol.It would've been tough. Raro had 6 people. Let's say they put 3 on Becky and 3 on Yul. That would lead to Aitu's 4 having the majority. If it's 4 Yul and 2 Becky (or vice versa), with Aitu putting 4 on somebody else, Raro wins if the 4 person doesn't have the idol. Otherwise it's the Raro going. If they do a 5-1 vote than it's the same as above. All the above is complicated if the idol works like Sugar's did, or if it gets rehidden after being used. I have no idea, but I would expect something a little less blatantly unfair than the bottle twist.Interestingly Jonathan actually worked out what the bottle contained and told Candice/Adam/Parvati (mentioned in a SSB Blog during Fiji). That's how they all knew to vote for Jenny. The trouble is that CI is a 20 person season without medivacs or quitters, hence all the twists needed to eliminate people (Final 3, Bottle, Double Boot). If S20 doesn't have any free boots either I imagine it'll be really twisty as well. |
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JackSparrowBauer |
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Posts: 4739 (01/31/10 09:15 PM) |
They would've voted for Becky or Sundra once they merged, dwindling Aitu's numbers before they dealt with the idol.
For the double boot, they could've done what they did in Samoa, where they booted 2 people in a 3-day span where they would've normally done 2.
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