CR ranks Survivor's 371 Survivor Characters - FINISHED!!! in Clubs that Suck. No, Really. Forum

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CR ranks Survivor's 371 Survivor Characters - FINISHED!!!

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tomash		#2161	[-]
Posts: 3155 (02/09/10 09:11 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	When I was born I was so surprised I didn�t talk for a year and a half. Remove this ad Lol Parvati always causing controversy <3
JackSparrowBauer		#2162	[-]
Posts: 4966 (02/09/10 10:23 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Cirie never had a solid #1 ally in Micro that was completely loyal to her (unlike how she had Aras and Danielle in Panama). Didn't she say post-show that she would've stuck with Parv and Amanda even if she knew that there was going to be a Final 2?
Rafting Persona Queen		#2163	[-]
Posts: 189 (02/09/10 12:23 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	chapera rocks wrote: I don’t understand why you’d make the claim in the first place, especially with no supporting evidence. I explained my reasoning, and there is no "evidence". You seem to be confused about what that means because you keep presenting hypothetical situations pieced together based on post-show interviews as concrete facts about what would have happened and how it illuminates Cirie's brilliance and that just doesn't hold that much weight to me. Sorry, I guess? 1) Fairplay’s elimination was out of the ordinary, and it was someone that benefited Parvati. This has nothing to do with Cirie. I don’t know how Cirie or anyone else would have played with that change. Yes and that's not a minor detail for me. 2) Without a last minute final 2 switch due to James‘ evacuation, which was absolutely out of the ordinary, Parvati would not have won. How hard is it to comprehend that? I did not say Cirie would have won. I said AMANDA or Cirie would have won. Is that clear enough? There's no trouble with my comprehension, I just DONT AGREE. Do you understand? I think Cirie was playing for second AT BEST. That's why I never bought into this "Cirie was so robbed wah" line of thinking. I don't think she was. At all. I think she was LUCKY actually. She was lucky there was an F2 and she could have won. The problem wasn't the F2 because that actually gave her a great shot. The problem was that she couldn't make it there, and that's on her. Not random chance. I also think it's bizzare how Cirie's superiority rests on the hypothesis that she could have won without the switch but no one ever uses that argument for why Amanda is brilliant. That’s fine that you feel that way. I don't see how having two votes locked up and a shot at three others is not a good position to win. How could it not be? Because I don't agree she had a shot at at least two of those votes, plain and simple, and I think the third one is a longshot at best, which I think I've explained. I would elaborate but arguing the pros and cons of imaginary jury votes that has no chance of being resolved with someone who desperately wants to believe Cirie would win feels futile and kind of draining. Cirie, Parvati, and Amanda played for a final three and made the final three, only to be told last second that they weren’t finished just yet. This doesn’t happen because it’s an arbitrary twist thrown in after they‘d played their games. It wasn’t even supposed to be a final 2. Not pre-planned. This not only screwed Amanda or Cirie’s win, but it also put them in a position they may not have been in if they had that prior knowledge. I don't think Cirie would have done anything differently nor should she have, because if she could have won that challenge she likely would have won the game, which tells me that the switch to the F2 only gave Cirie a BETTER shot at winning, not a worse one. What prevented her from winning was her failure at the challenge and her inability to get taken to the final two. Not the final two itself. The only one whose win was automatically threatened was Amanda's, and even she could have won with a different jury performance. It’s easy for Parvati to “adapt” for a final 2 that she didn’t know was coming when she’s there with her friends, and it’s not like she knew it was coming. Amanda and Cirie may have played a different game and played for a more lucrative final three for them had they been aware of a production change. Well I'm sure a lot of people would have played different games if they could see twists coming. Parvati's game was strong enough to withstand all the bumps in the road, and every opportunity she was presented with she made the most of. My overall point is that Parvati got very lucky. That is all I’m trying to argue her Ok. I just think she played a better game than Cirie did. Maybe not the hypothetical game in which Cirie gets 2nd and Parvati gets 3rd, and not the one where Fairplay was actually playing, and not the one where Jonathan's evacuation never happens and he makes it to the merge and takes Cirie to the F2, but the actual game that we watched on tv. I think Parvati did it better.
chapera rocks		#2164	[-]
Posts: 12934 (02/09/10 12:27 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	There's no trouble with my comprehension, I just DONT AGREE. Do you understand? I think Cirie was playing for second AT BEST. That's why I never bought into this "Cirie was so robbed wah" line of thinking. I don't think she was. At all. I think she was LUCKY actually. She was lucky there was an F2 and she could have won. The problem wasn't the F2 because that actually gave her a great shot. The problem was that she couldn't make it there, and that's on her. Not random chance. I also think it's bizzare how Cirie's superiority rests on the hypothesis that she could have won without the switch but no one ever uses that argument for why Amanda is brilliant. Clearly you don't understand because I am in no way saying Cirie would have won. Just that it was Cirie or Amanda. That is acknowledging Amanda. Ok. I just think she played a better game than Cirie did. Maybe not the hypothetical game in which Cirie gets 2nd and Parvati gets 3rd, and not the one where Fairplay was actually playing, and not the one where Jonathan's evacuation never happens and he makes it to the merge and takes Cirie to the F2, but the actual game that we watched on tv. I think Parvati did it better. Because of a last second final two switch that just fell in her lap, which never happens and thus she played good enough for third place. That is one lucky bitch.
Rafting Persona Queen		#2165	[-]
Posts: 190 (02/09/10 12:43 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	No, not because of the final two switch, because of her game. The switch to F2 did nothing inherently for Parvati, but because of the game she played she was going to the finals with either woman and won. Because of the game Cirie played, she got third. Amanda's game earned her second. If either of them could have worked the situation better, they could have won too. But they didn't, and that's not a fluke, that's the game. Luck didn't win it for Parvati, Parvati won it for Parvati. The change to f2 gave Cirie and Parvati both an easier chance at the money and an un-splintered vote, and Parvati capitalized and Cirie didn't. Even in the imaginary world where there was an F3 I think the most likely scenario is Cirie and Parvati tying for second/third, so the hypotheticals don't speak to Cirie's superiority either. But that's just how I see it.
chapera rocks		#2166	[-]
Posts: 12935 (02/09/10 12:49 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	COMING IN AT #7 ... 7. AMANDA KIMMEL SURVIVOR CHINA 3rd PLACE BEST MOVE: Taking out James at final 7. WORST MOVE: Leaving Todd in the game at final 4. STRATEGIC GAME: A Amanda, IMO, played the best game in China. Todd wasn't in control of the end game, it was Amanda. Amanda got what Amanda wanted. The only problem was her complacency within an alliance. She was too afraid to betray her alliances, which was not a good thing. She played a great strategic game throughout the game. The only reason she doesn't get an A+ and the reason she's not higher on the list is because she (1) Left Todd in, when Denise was the better choice and (2) She completely misread the jury. She thought the jury would be hearts and flowers, and would fall for Denise's sob story, etc. But she underestimated Todd's voracity in front of the jury, and she didn't step up herself which resulted in a loss. Those are some huge blunders considering she definitely had the votes going in. Jaime. Erik. Maybe James. Peih-Gee clearly wanted to vote for her but Amanda didn't give her any reasons to. But throughout, Amanda was at the top of Fei Long, and shaped the entire end game. It's just too bad she didn't shape it how it should have been... Todd for Denise. SOCIAL GAME: B Amanda's weak social game is perhaps why she misread the jury. She didn't get to know them and thus didn't realize what they were looking for. She thought that if she apologized, she'd get their votes. But she didn't fight for her game. She didn't know them well enough to know they appreciate a gamer, not a sob story. That is why Amanda lost China, and it's a fairly big thing to miss, so she falls a couple of spots. Had Amanda played a better social game, I believe she would have won and would have been one of the best all time players and probably #1 or 2 or 3 on this list. Too bad. PHYSICAL GAME: A+ Like I said when Amanda came up last, she's in the best position possible physically. Stronger than the women, but weaker than the men. It sets her up perfectly for the end game every time, and she dominated the last few challenges of China while working hard at camp. I think she gained a lot of respect for that, which definitely helped her game. INNOVATION: While Amanda played a great game in China, I don't think she was all that innovative. Other than taking small people she could beat to the end of the game, she really didn't add much to it strategically; she played a safe, MOR game. Which isn't a bad thing since she did it very well, but it wasn't exactly compelling TV or game changing or unique. LUCK: One could argue Fei Long as a whole was very lucky to have two guys that couldn't be matched physically, which is why Zhan Hu could barely win a challenge without the FL girls doing poorly. But I won't hold that against her and will say she didn't have too much good or bad luck. IMRPOVEMENTS FOR HvsV: Amanda knows what she needs to improve an it's taking no prisoners, but also her social game. She needs to get to know those outside of her alliance if she's going to be successful. Or at least get a good read on them, otherwise she'll go to the end with a strategy she'll think works but will fail again. But I think she knows what needs to be done and if she can overcome this Micronesia target, which shouldn't be too hard, she'll go a long way again. Spoiler [+] Someone who's been on a black merged tribe at some point in their survivor career. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. Amanda Kimmel - 3rd Place - China 8. Rob Mariano - Runner-up - All Stars 9. Sugar Kiper - 3rd - Gabon 10. Tom Westman - WINNER - Palau 11. Stephenie LaGrossa - 7th - Palau 12. Sandra Diaz-Twine - WINNER - Pearl Islands 13. Rob Mariano - 10th - Marquesas 14. Amanda Kimmel - Runner-up - Micronesia 15. Parvati Shallow - 6th - Cook Islands 16. Danielle DiLorenzo - Runner-up - Panama Exile Island 17. Russell Hantz - Runner-up - Samoa 18. Jerri Manthey - 10th - All Stars 19. James Clement - 7th - China 20. Jerri Manthey - 8th - Australian Outback 21. Colby Donaldson - 12th - All Stars 22. Rupert Boneham - 4th - All Stars 23. Randy Bailey - 8th - Gabon 24. Courtney Yates - Runner-up - China 25. Tyson Apostol - 8th - Tocantins 26. Rupert Boneham - 8th - Pearl Islands 27. Stephenie LaGrossa - Runner-up - Guatemala 28. James Clement - 7th - Micronesia 29. Coach Wade - 5th - Tocantins TOP 6: COLBY DONALDSON (S2) CIRIE FIELDS (S12) CANDICE WOODCOCK (S13) CIRIE FIELDS (S16) PARVATI SHALLOW (S16) J.T. THOMAS (S18)
chapera rocks		#2167	[-]
Posts: 12936 (02/09/10 12:51 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Rafting Persona Queen wrote: No, not because of the final two switch, because of her game. The switch to F2 did nothing inherently for Parvati, but because of the game she played she was going to the finals with either woman and won. Because of the game Cirie played, she got third. Amanda's game earned her second. If either of them could have worked the situation better, they could have won too. But they didn't, and that's not a fluke, that's the game. Luck didn't win it for Parvati, Parvati won it for Parvati. The change to f2 gave Cirie and Parvati both an easier chance at the money and an un-splintered vote, and Parvati capitalized and Cirie didn't. Even in the imaginary world where there was an F3 I think the most likely scenario is Cirie and Parvati tying for second/third, so the hypotheticals don't speak to Cirie's superiority either. But that's just how I see it. They didn't have the opportunity to play the game better because the game format was changed after they had formulated their strategies and executed them. They played their entire game, and then they were told "nope". Parvati being closer to Amanda and Cirie meant nothing in the context of a final 3 because there are three spots, not two. We're just going to have to agree to disagree, I don't want to fight anymore. <3
Rafting Persona Queen		#2168	[-]
Posts: 192 (02/09/10 12:54 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I agree that Amanda played a better game than Todd in China right up until the FTC. She's a bit higher than I would have her but I don't disagree too strongly. It's interesting about Amanda's FTC performance, because some juries would have really responded to that very well I think. Spoiler [+] Candice or Parvati?
chapera rocks		#2169	[-]
Posts: 12937 (02/09/10 12:57 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Rafting Persona Queen wrote: I agree that Amanda played a better game than Todd in China right up until the FTC. She's a bit higher than I would have her but I don't disagree too strongly. It's interesting about Amanda's FTC performance, because some juries would have really responded to that very well I think. Spoiler [+] Candice or Parvati? I think with a bit more finesse, probably. But she was being really incoherent and blubbery. I think she just perpetually snaps around day 38 and can't function normally.
Axie.rsfd		#2170	[-]
Posts: 2205 (02/09/10 01:13 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	When I was born I was so surprised I didn�t talk for a year and a half. Remove this ad Great write-up. <3 As much as I love Todd and his victory, Amanda played a less explosive game, but still making power plays and doing well all around, and she did have everything to win China. But her FTC flushes everything! How can one give a somehow less convincing FTC speech than fucking Courtney Y?! Spoiler [+] Black merged tribe = EI Cirie, CI Parvati and Candice. Since you said "at some point in their survivor career", this doesn't rule out FvF Parvati, who's still on the run, or FvF Cirie. I believe it's Candice, but it could be a Cirie or Parvati.
GeorgeJhon		#2171	[-]
Posts: 253 (02/09/10 01:21 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Chinamanda is out? I would probably put her higher than Colby, Candice and Micronesia Cirie.Unlike Colby she chose people she could beat in a F2 if her speech didn't suck so bad. Candice is a really good player but at the same time we really don't what would've happened if the bottle twist and the overpowered HII didn't exist and if it is likely that she would've made it to the F3, we don't know it for sure. Micronesia Cirie is overrated IMHO. She was planning to get to the F3 with Amanda and Parvati, and I believe that she said post-show she would stick with them even if it was a F2. And she would've lost to Amanda in a F3.
Lasercatz		#2172	[-]
Posts: 225 (02/09/10 01:31 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Voting off Denise might have been the wrong strategic move, but it was for the good of humanity.
kenc333		#2173	[-]
Posts: 10384 (02/09/10 01:32 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	This may be the fanboy in me, but how is Chinamanda out before Candice? Amanda set up a great endgame and made one mistake at the very end, whereas Candice didn't even get to touch an endgame to potentially screw up. And Amanda was aware of her own strengths and weaknesses: "[Todd]'s connected with people like I haven't", but she was hoping for a bitter jury to be mad at him and it just wasn't the case. I thought Amanda's game in China was one of the strongest by any female player. She was always in control, always in game-mode and her game imploded on day 39, rather than day 27 or whenever Candice left...
ilovekelly752		#2174	[-]
Posts: 1216 (02/09/10 02:04 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	chapera rocks wrote: Rafting Persona Queen wrote: chapera rocks wrote: Translation: what if what if what if if if if if if if if if if if if. I like Alexis' in the moment over your fanboy scenarios anyday. That's exactly what you're doing (and with the same fanboy motivations) so I don't see the harm. You've been debating what ifs for a few pages now. I don't understand why it has to be so hostile. You say the difference between Parvati and Cirie is that Parvati was lucky enough to overcome her inferior gameplay and that Cirie was a better player who just wasn't as lucky, and others disagree using their own rationales and perspectives. Arguing what ifs is always going to be useless but it can be a fun exercise provided no one gets too bent out of shape about it. Sorry, I'm a bit testy with said poster because he doesn't even understand what people post and then spouts off random shit. And there's a difference between plausible what if's and very random what if's based on the notion that "anything is possible". I'm trying not debating what ifs anyway ... I am trying to steer away from that actually, and state what would have happened 99% of the time. To me, a last minute switch to a final 2 after everyone has finished their game is totally unfair because it changes the parameters they were playing by. Cirie, Amanda, and Parvati would all have played different games with at least some warning of a final 2. One could argue to expect the unexpected, but that's hard to say when we know it was an intended final 3. Fact: Amanda, Parvati, and Cirie played for a final three game. Fact, Parvati's game for a final 3 was not effective enough to win. Amanda or Cirie would have won in a final three situation, which was switched at the 11th hour, which was too late for any of the players to readjust their strategies. A final three with Amanda/Parvati is lucrative for Cirie because they'd all make the finals; obviously, a final two is not so lucrative. And lol @ the fanboyism accusation. You keep acting like I'm saying Cirie was a surefire win when I keep correcting you and saying it was Amanda or Cirie. Not only that, but I'm trying to keep the arguments rational and fact based. You're spouting off that Cirie was going home if Fairplay hadn't quit. Yeah, with what majority? I've already offered proof that Yau-Man, Ami, Eliza, and Fairplay would not go along with it. Add Cirie in the mix, and that's already a majority. Fact: It's a double standard to say Amanda had a chance, but not Parvati. Amanda NEEDED Erik's vote. Erik said Cirie, so if you're using the Alexis argument against Parvati, I'm using the Erik argument against Amanda. Enough said. Also, does that mean either Ozzy or Becky is the best player in CI, since one of them would've won in a final 2?
ilovekelly752		#2175	[-]
Posts: 1217 (02/09/10 02:16 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	chapera rocks wrote: Sorry, I'm a bit testy with said poster because he doesn't even understand what people post and then spouts off random shit. And there's a difference between plausible what if's and very random what if's based on the notion that "anything is possible". You think saying two people who already voted for her would still vote for her is an example of that???? I think it's a likely scenario, and I'm apparently not the only one. The whole thing started when I said any of the three winning was possible, so why did you even continue the argument? You seem to just have your own fanboy scenarios and expect everyone to agree. I quote from an earlier post. "It would not have been Parvati. I don't think anyone would deny that." Like I said, I don't even seem to be the only one.
chapera rocks		#2176	[-]
Posts: 12939 (02/09/10 03:00 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	kenc333 wrote: This may be the fanboy in me, but how is Chinamanda out before Candice? Amanda set up a great endgame and made one mistake at the very end, whereas Candice didn't even get to touch an endgame to potentially screw up. And Amanda was aware of her own strengths and weaknesses: "[Todd]'s connected with people like I haven't", but she was hoping for a bitter jury to be mad at him and it just wasn't the case. I thought Amanda's game in China was one of the strongest by any female player. She was always in control, always in game-mode and her game imploded on day 39, rather than day 27 or whenever Candice left... Don't you agree keeping Denise would have been better? Like I said, Amanda had all the right stuff, but she lost because she so poorly read the entire jury, who she'd spent so long with. That's why I took her down before the other 6 remaining.
soph101		#2177	[-]
Posts: 66 (02/09/10 03:05 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I love Colby but I don't really get how he's in the top 7. Australian Outback wasn't a very strategic season, and he made one of the biggest mistakes ever which was taking Tina to the final two.
ilovekelly752		#2178	[-]
Posts: 1218 (02/09/10 03:33 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	soph101 wrote: I love Colby but I don't really get how he's in the top 7. Australian Outback wasn't a very strategic season, and he made one of the biggest mistakes ever which was taking Tina to the final two. I think he gets credit for doing what I've only seen Todd, Parvati, Ian, Stephenie, and only a few others do before, which is to betray an alliance member, then somehow still convince them to stay on your side after you just screwed them. He really had Jerri believing he wanted to go to the final two with her, even after he blindsided her by voting out Mitchell, and he was still loyal to Tina. I thought he was great. He did make that horrible mistake though. I'd put him #2 out of all 29 if he took Keith and won, but I think top 6 is reasonable.
ilovekelly752		#2179	[-]
Posts: 1219 (02/09/10 03:35 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I'd rank the top 6 like this. 6. Candice 5. Cirie (EI) 4. Colby 3. Cirie (FvF) 2. JT 1. Parvati
GeorgeJhon		#2180	[-]
Posts: 256 (02/09/10 03:50 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	When I was born I was so surprised I didn�t talk for a year and a half. Remove this ad ilovekelly752 wrote: I'd rank the top 6 like this. 6. Candice 5. Cirie (EI) 4. Colby 3. Cirie (FvF) 2. JT 1. Parvati Cirie EI > Cirie FvF

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CR ranks Survivor's 371 Survivor Characters - FINISHED!!!