CR ranks Survivor's 371 Survivor Characters - FINISHED!!! in Clubs that Suck. No, Really. Forum

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CR ranks Survivor's 371 Survivor Characters - FINISHED!!!

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Rafting Persona Queen		#2201	[-]
Posts: 197 (02/09/10 06:05 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Pshhhh we have secret to share Remove this ad Thailandsurvivor wrote: I still think Amanda's game in Micornesia was absolute shit, but, just like Sandra, Jenna, Aras, and Bob, she would have won. Parvati and Cirie would have lost. Amanda lost. Amanda held more control during the game than either Cirie or Parvati did. (No idol at the final 6, either a 66% chance Cirie or Paravti leaves and the fans have majority OR Cirie sides with the fans to avoid a purple rock and Amanda leaves, giving Natalie and Alexis an easy trip to the finals). China Amanda was never in danger of leaving, even if China was a final two, Courtney and Todd would have taken her to the finals. That cannot be said about either Parvati or Cirie. I'm confused. Are you saying China Amanda had more control than Micronesia Parvati and Cirie and that she only lost because of the F3, which Micronesia Cirie and Parvati would have lost in too? Because I disagree with the first point and I don't believe all losing games are made equal, so the second is irrelevant to me. kenc333 wrote: And I agree with ThaiSu's post. Another question I have to ask is why do people assume that Jason would vote for Cirie if not Parvati? Why wouldn't he vote for Amanda? Amanda charmed all the men, and they went on a reward together... I'm not saying that Amanda had a better or worse chance of getting Jason's vote, but it's always the option that's excluded... probably because he had the option to vote for her in the F2 and didn't. If he didn't pick Amanda over Parvati, why would he pick Amanda over Parvati and Cirie?
kenc333		#2202	[-]
Posts: 10389 (02/09/10 06:06 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Oh right, silly me Yea, from what I remember, Courtney said she'd do whatever Amanda said, then Amanda was all "this is not just for me, this is not just for you.. it's for both of us" and then they kept Todd due to Amanda's loyalty to him. When Amanda promised that she wouldn't write down Denise's name, but could not guarantee how the other two would vote, I was always hoping she'd throw a vote at Courtney to keep her word and still send Denise to the jury in a 2-1-1 vote.. but that would've been a weasely thing to do.
unduli clone		#2203	[-]
Posts: 8558 (02/09/10 06:19 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I could be wrong, but I thought there was something out there that seemed to indicate Courtney wanted Todd gone. Maybe it was just something she said in the actual show at the F4. At least most of you seem to be saying that Courtney would've gone along with whatever Amanda wanted so it was truly Amanda's fault that Todd didn't go... but she would've lost either way. Even if she retained credit for the Todd boot she'd still have turned in a bad FTC.
kenc333		#2204	[-]
Posts: 10391 (02/09/10 06:30 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Well if we're speaking hypothetically... say Amanda/Courtney/Denise all vote for Todd.. all of the events of Day 38 and 39 would change. - Amanda doesn't have to break her word to Denise - Todd doesn't call Amanda out on it at TC since she wouldn't be backpedalling - Amanda doesn't have breakdown 1.0 on night 38 (I do think this impacted how she handled FTC) - Amanda could claim that she was in control of the game strategically (similar to how Stephen would've handled FTC had it been him/Erinn) In this scenario, I could see Amanda getting Peih Gee/Erik and maybe Jaime, but keeping Denise in the game would've lost her two potential votes in JR and James, so I don't really know which F3 combination would've been best for her. Had Amanda given a great FTC performance, and Todd gave a bad one, Amanda probably could have won that F3 much more easily, in my opinion.
ilovekelly752		#2205	[-]
Posts: 1226 (02/09/10 06:40 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I think that fourth bullet is a good point. Amanda strategically didn't want to compete with Todd for the "game player" role, so she took a different approach. That could've been the same thing in FvF. She really should've taken Todd out then.
JackSparrowBauer		#2206	[-]
Posts: 4973 (02/09/10 08:54 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	ilovekelly752 wrote: unduli clone wrote: I think that if Amanda had taken Denise then Courtney would've won. Amanda would've continued with her FTC performance of apologizing and would've apologized for voting out Todd, while Courtney would've (rightfully) received credit for it (remember that she was pushing to get him out at F4 but Amanda wouldn't budge). That jury was about gameplay and would've given the million to Courtney, for sure. IIRC, (which I don't always) didn't Courtney push hard for Todd to stay? Courtney never pushed hard for anything (except booting JR). I would've ranked Amanda higher than at least one or two people left on this list. It's always really hard to predict juries, even as a viewer, and that was her only mistake. China's jury was also one of the weirdest juries ever, because jury members hardly ever look for the hardcore strategist. I still think that if either Amanda gave a good FTC or if Todd didn't give an amazing one, then Amanda still wins. I'm with Ken that while Candice was set up to own the whole game and be the one controlling the endgame etc. Amanda actually did. For all we know, Candice could've misread the jury, too.
AveryC		#2207	[-]
Posts: 315 (02/09/10 09:01 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	China's jury was also one of the weirdest juries ever, because jury members hardly ever look for the hardcore strategist I actually would say that wasn't even the case. Denise, Erik and James definately didn't. Jean Robert's question was essentially Eliza's in disguise. Jaime was oddly obnoxious without any real justification while Frosti is a mystery for the most part. I'd say Peih Gee was the only juror who was voting along those lines. I've never supported the argument the juries are automatically inclined towards men over women, but I think a case can be made against Jean Robert at least. He was bitter at Todd for having bad strategy in voting him out, while Amanda was a bad person for voting him out.
ilovekelly752		#2208	[-]
Posts: 1227 (02/09/10 09:02 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	JackSparrowBauer wrote: ilovekelly752 wrote: unduli clone wrote: I think that if Amanda had taken Denise then Courtney would've won. Amanda would've continued with her FTC performance of apologizing and would've apologized for voting out Todd, while Courtney would've (rightfully) received credit for it (remember that she was pushing to get him out at F4 but Amanda wouldn't budge). That jury was about gameplay and would've given the million to Courtney, for sure. IIRC, (which I don't always) didn't Courtney push hard for Todd to stay? Courtney never pushed hard for anything (except booting JR). I would've ranked Amanda higher than at least one or two people left on this list. It's always really hard to predict juries, even as a viewer, and that was her only mistake. China's jury was also one of the weirdest juries ever, because jury members hardly ever look for the hardcore strategist. I still think that if either Amanda gave a good FTC or if Todd didn't give an amazing one, then Amanda still wins. I'm with Ken that while Candice was set up to own the whole game and be the one controlling the endgame etc. Amanda actually did. For all we know, Candice could've misread the jury, too. While I think Amanda's controlling position in the final 4 just fell into her lap, and was no different than Denise's in F6, I do think she is an incredible player, and should be higher than Candice. Candice could've at least tried to get Jonathan to force a tie at F8. I could see Amanda doing something like that.
ilovekelly752		#2209	[-]
Posts: 1228 (02/09/10 09:05 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	AveryC wrote: China's jury was also one of the weirdest juries ever, because jury members hardly ever look for the hardcore strategist I actually would say that wasn't even the case. Denise, Erik and James definately didn't. Jean Robert's question was essentially Eliza's in disguise. Jaime was oddly obnoxious without any real justification while Frosti is a mystery for the most part. I'd say Peih Gee was the only juror who was voting along those lines. I've never supported the argument the juries are automatically inclined towards men over women, but I think a case can be made against Jean Robert at least. He was bitter at Todd for having bad strategy in voting him out, while Amanda was a bad person for voting him out. The only thing that put Todd above Amanda for JR, imo, was his suck up answer. I really think he would've voted Courtney otherwise. Of course I could be wrong, though. It just seemed like he liked Courtney's answer to his question.
kenc333		#2210	[-]
Posts: 10395 (02/09/10 09:05 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Pshhhh we have secret to share Remove this ad I don't wanna sound like I'm overcrediting Amanda, but I don't think her power at the F4 just fell into her lap... As she stated at the FTC, she set up her endgame so that she could have the greatest chance of winning immunity, which helped her get into power. Then she had her final 3 alliance of herself/Todd/Courtney to fall back on, with Todd wanting Denise out in 4th, while she had some connection to Denise from the final 5 round, setting Denise up to target Todd. I'd say she was in a pretty comfortable spot and she controlled how she got there and what she did from there. The only thing that put Todd above Amanda for JR, imo, was his suck up answer. I really think he would've voted Courtney otherwise. Of course I could be wrong, though. It just seemed like he liked Courtney's answer to his question. I think the speculation was that JR would vote for Amanda since they showed his threat to turn the jury against Todd if he was blindsided (but not the same deal he made with Amanda), and his multiple fights with Courtney. Again, I must blame Bluto and his awful 'Amanda wins S15!' spoiler for making us speculate around it
ilovekelly752		#2211	[-]
Posts: 1229 (02/09/10 09:29 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	kenc333 wrote: I don't wanna sound like I'm overcrediting Amanda, but I don't think her power at the F4 just fell into her lap... As she stated at the FTC, she set up her endgame so that she could have the greatest chance of winning immunity, which helped her get into power. Then she had her final 3 alliance of herself/Todd/Courtney to fall back on, with Todd wanting Denise out in 4th, while she had some connection to Denise from the final 5 round, setting Denise up to target Todd. I'd say she was in a pretty comfortable spot and she controlled how she got there and what she did from there. It doesn't sound like that at all. You backed it up well.
Thailandsurvivor		#2212	[-]
Posts: 9873 (02/09/10 11:25 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Rafting Persona Queen wrote: Thailandsurvivor wrote: I still think Amanda's game in Micornesia was absolute shit, but, just like Sandra, Jenna, Aras, and Bob, she would have won. Parvati and Cirie would have lost. Amanda lost. Amanda held more control during the game than either Cirie or Parvati did. (No idol at the final 6, either a 66% chance Cirie or Paravti leaves and the fans have majority OR Cirie sides with the fans to avoid a purple rock and Amanda leaves, giving Natalie and Alexis an easy trip to the finals). China Amanda was never in danger of leaving, even if China was a final two, Courtney and Todd would have taken her to the finals. That cannot be said about either Parvati or Cirie. I'm confused. Are you saying China Amanda had more control than Micronesia Parvati and Cirie and that she only lost because of the F3, which Micronesia Cirie and Parvati would have lost in too? Because I disagree with the first point and I don't believe all losing games are made equal, so the second is irrelevant to me. Amanda did have control in China than Parvati and Cirie had in Micronesia. If the idol left the game when Ozzy left (like it did before and has ever since) or if Alexis had any brains and sent a fan to Exile, then the favorites lose control, lose majority, and lose the game.
chapera rocks		#2213	[-]
Posts: 12941 (02/09/10 11:39 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Once again, the idols were so integral to Micronesia anda million things could have gone differently. Like it or not, it's part of the game and has been for a long time. And idols have been rehidden before; It's been confirmed they would have been rehidden for CI, EI, and Fiji. Not rehiding the idol is out of the ordinary. Plus, they were told it was rehidden right after Ozzy was voted out, so no one had the advantage; those choosing who to send had the power to strategically decide what was best. Also, Erik was not a guaranteed Amanda vote. He's said himself he wasn't sure. Beyond James, Ozzy, Eliza, and Alexis, we don't know 100% how the votes would go down in a final 3.
Rafting Persona Queen		#2214	[-]
Posts: 199 (02/09/10 11:47 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	We don't know 100% about any of them. People can think they're going to vote for someone and then change their minds at FTC, so even if people's "I would have voted for person X" commentary wasn't influenced by factors like their edit and what they saw on tv and who they were talking to and who they stayed in contact with post show and who they wish they could've voted for simply because they couldn't, there still isn't enough information to know. but lol at listing James, Ozzy, Eliza and Alexis and not Natalie.
chapera rocks		#2215	[-]
Posts: 12942 (02/10/10 12:23 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Rafting Persona Queen wrote: We don't know 100% about any of them. People can think they're going to vote for someone and then change their minds at FTC, so even if people's "I would have voted for person X" commentary wasn't influenced by factors like their edit and what they saw on tv and who they were talking to and who they stayed in contact with post show and who they wish they could've voted for simply because they couldn't, there still isn't enough information to know. but lol at listing James, Ozzy, Eliza and Alexis and not Natalie. Of course anything is possible. But some things are completely improbable. When you have Eliza and Alexis advocating for Cirie in Ponderosa, you can safely assume that they'd vote Cirie. And I'm comfortable ignoring the small chance that was not true. Same with James and Ozzy, which is even more obvious. I didn't list Natalie because Eliza has said Natalie might have voted for Cirie with a good performance. And since Eliza was there, I trust her. Personally, the chance is pretty minimal, but no where near the certainty of the other four.
SirCrocodilep		#2216	[-]
Posts: 2616 (02/10/10 12:25 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	chapera rocks wrote: Once again, the idols were so integral to Micronesia anda million things could have gone differently. Like it or not, it's part of the game and has been for a long time. And idols have been rehidden before; It's been confirmed they would have been rehidden for CI, EI, and Fiji. Not rehiding the idol is out of the ordinary. Plus, they were told it was rehidden right after Ozzy was voted out, so no one had the advantage; those choosing who to send had the power to strategically decide what was best. Also, Erik was not a guaranteed Amanda vote. He's said himself he wasn't sure. Beyond James, Ozzy, Eliza, and Alexis, we don't know 100% how the votes would go down in a final 3. Fair enough criteria.
Thailandsurvivor		#2217	[-]
Posts: 9875 (02/10/10 01:01 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	chapera rocks wrote: Once again, the idols were so integral to Micronesia anda million things could have gone differently. Like it or not, it's part of the game and has been for a long time. And idols have been rehidden before; It's been confirmed they would have been rehidden for CI, EI, and Fiji. Not rehiding the idol is out of the ordinary. Plus, they were told it was rehidden right after Ozzy was voted out, so no one had the advantage; those choosing who to send had the power to strategically decide what was best. It was confirmed they would be rehidden AFTER THEY WERE PLAYED. James was voted out with an idol in his pocket, and neither were rehidden. Erik was voted out with an idol in his pocket, and it was not rehidden. Not going to get into this argument again, though. My point is that the favorites basically needed to get Alexis to send one of them to Exile. If she had two brain cells, Natalie goes, and the fans are in control. If the favorites were planning to vote out Erik instead of James, I would back out of my argument, but they were not going to. They assumed girl power would be successful to the end, but it wasn't going to be. They needed an idol, and I hold the same standards to everyone who has played an idol. Yau Man, Foa Foa, and the favorites were all toast without it. Technically that means the fans needed an idol to hold majority, but again, without it in play, they were in charge, so do not use that argument against me.
AveryC		#2218	[-]
Posts: 316 (02/10/10 01:39 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	They needed an idol, and I hold the same standards to everyone who has played an idol. Yau Man, Foa Foa, and the favorites were all toast without it. Copy/pasting from my ranking thread since it applies here: - Everybody knew the idol was in the game. - Everybody knew where the idol clues could be obtained. - Everybody knew the idol would be rehidden. - Everybody knew when the idol could be played. - Everybody knew what it meant if the idol was played. People who use the idol to their advantage are making good moves. People who fail to account for the idol are using bad strategy. This is the case in every instance when the idol has affected the outcome. Removing the idol only from play makes no sense because everything up until that point would change as a result. James was voted out with an idol in his pocket, and neither were rehidden. There was no way of obtaining clues at that point. That's why idols usually aren't rehidden. Erik was voted out with an idol in his pocket, and it was not rehidden. Both idols left at once. And idols have been rehidden before; It's been confirmed they would have been rehidden for CI, EI, and Fiji. Not rehiding the idol is out of the ordinary. Plus, they were told it was rehidden right after Ozzy was voted out, so no one had the advantage; those choosing who to send had the power to strategically decide what was best. I've been wondering about this for some time, but since you say there's been confirmation I'll definately believe it. So suddenly the Aitu/Raro post merge situation becomes rather unpredictable in any sense even if Raro merged at 10, because Aitu could use the idol at 10 and could still obtain it at 9 via Becky. Last Edited By: AveryC 02/10/10 01:43 AM. Edited 3 times.
chapera rocks		#2219	[-]
Posts: 12943 (02/10/10 07:24 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Thailandsurvivor wrote: chapera rocks wrote: Once again, the idols were so integral to Micronesia anda million things could have gone differently. Like it or not, it's part of the game and has been for a long time. And idols have been rehidden before; It's been confirmed they would have been rehidden for CI, EI, and Fiji. Not rehiding the idol is out of the ordinary. Plus, they were told it was rehidden right after Ozzy was voted out, so no one had the advantage; those choosing who to send had the power to strategically decide what was best. It was confirmed they would be rehidden AFTER THEY WERE PLAYED. James was voted out with an idol in his pocket, and neither were rehidden. Erik was voted out with an idol in his pocket, and it was not rehidden. Do you honestly think people made that minor distinction? And yeah, they did re-hide it once Erik was voted out.
Cassidy666		#2220	[-]
Posts: 10754 (02/10/10 10:35 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Pshhhh we have secret to share Remove this ad I can understand your argument for placing Sugar high, CR, but honestly, I still think what you call genius moves were totally idiotic. Betraying Ace was the first slide down the slope for her and she screwed herself over and over with every single thing she did. The reason she was not voted out was because people thought she would just go along with them after she had proved to be stupid enough to side with them when she shouldn't have. Your argument that she should not be judged with normal standards since she was not playing the kind of game people usually played makes no sense since you are actually ranking her against all these other people. By your definition, she should be the sole entry on her own list on another planet. She doesn't belong on this one. I think you overrate her self-awareness also, which is your main argument for ranking her high. How is that possible when she showed gullibility which you alluded to in the write-up? She went one way and then another and all without thought of consequence. She never once thought of how her decisions impacted herself or others. Her final move of keeping Bob in over Matty? It was purely emotional. She had even less reason to screw Matty over than Ace after everything that had happened. Also, saying she was simply playing for Bob holds no water since it never looked like she gave any concern for how her decisions affected Bob until right at that last vote. She went however the wind blew in her own mind so saying she had some kind of well thought out non-winning strategy is ludicrous. She was the very embodiment of fickleness. That's not strategy. Last Edited By: Cassidy666 02/10/10 10:39 AM. Edited 2 times.

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CR ranks Survivor's 371 Survivor Characters - FINISHED!!!