S-22 Edgic (editing and logic) in Survivor Speculation Forum

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S-22 Edgic (editing and logic)

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Oowatanite		#2301	[-]
Posts: 13101 (03/28/11 02:33 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Proofread carefully to see if you any words out. Remove this ad
SFC		#2302	[-]
Posts: 1155 (03/28/11 02:34 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Why is Andrea's INV any worse than any of the others? It isn't exactly poorly timed because she did not go to the challenge or interact with Russell so she there would be no reason for her to comment. Hell even Rob didnt have a confessional about Russell being out. Every duel that Andrea has been too she's had something to say.
RedCoffee		#2303	[-]
Posts: 270 (03/28/11 03:08 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	SFC wrote: Why is Andrea's INV any worse than any of the others? It isn't exactly poorly timed because she did not go to the challenge or interact with Russell so she there would be no reason for her to comment. Hell even Rob didnt have a confessional about Russell being out. Every duel that Andrea has been too she's had something to say. It would mark the first INV ever given to a winner during an episode where they were (based on content from 2 episodes immediately preceding it) a possible boot target. It would be only the second time a winner got an INV during an episode where their tribe went to tribal council. In the other, the booted player was booted unanimously by the tribe and Natalie had nothing to do with the story on Foa Foa at the time. Andrea had clear ties to the immediate story on Ometepe. For me the issue is more that we were given no indication at the time of: - Why Kristina was a boot target, Phillip was a boot target, but Andrea was not a boot target. - Why Andrea decided to ultimately side with Rob's plan without so much as a snippet about how she managed to reintegrate into the apparent majority or why she didn't go with Grant/Ashley/Natalie to boot annoying Phillip. Of course, part of one of these things (the latter) can be explained in retrospect. Andrea didn't want to flip with G/A/N to take out Phillip because she thinks he's a hard worker and should stay. Still unexplained is why Rob wanted to keep a nice, hardworking female with an axe to grind against him and a clear partner on track to re-enter the game over Phillip, who is inept in many ways and a fantastic distraction/goat. Sending her to RI pits the partners against each other. In this regard, Andrea probably would have been a better backup to the Kristina vote than Phillip, but she wasn't even considered. Why? What did she do to keep herself in the majority, given this situation? It could be that Rob is making a tactical error by underestimating her - she did nothing, said nothing, and thought nothing beyond her E3 confessional. It could also be that Andrea's behavior is deliberately reassuring Rob that she is trustworthy. The bottom line is that we still don't know what happened to our potential winner during this pivotal part in her game and the time seems to have passed for an explanation of it. This is the biggest hole in the story for me. I'm willing to forgive it for now, given the flaws of other edits and her otherwise well-tended edit, but its keeping me cautious and a bit uneasy about her as a runaway winner choice.
fat little fingers		#2304	[-]
Posts: 6684 (03/28/11 03:22 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Agreed RC. The INV is a big concern. That and her not talking about the long game. Her post-RI confessional nudges her story in that direction, but her story has worrying lacks.
SFC		#2305	[-]
Posts: 1156 (03/28/11 03:22 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	RedCoffee wrote: It would mark the first INV ever given to a winner during an episode where they were (based on content from 2 episodes immediately preceding it) a possible boot target. They clearly did not want Andrea to be seen as a boot target, because while we see her as on the outside. In the game she is in the inner circle as of now. RedCoffee wrote: It would be only the second time a winner got an INV during an episode where their tribe went to tribal council. In the other, the booted player was booted unanimously by the tribe and Natalie had nothing to do with the story on Foa Foa at the time. Andrea had clear ties to the immediate story on Ometepe. However the immediate story in that episode was clearly set. Phillip is set up as the alone outsider, if Andrea was put in there it would take away the isolation Phillip had. Rob and Grant had their own scenes which had their own little story. And she couldn't be lumped in with Ashley/Natalie since in the next episode she would be separated from them. Even Kristina was largely INV aside from being the boot target and going to Redemption Island. RedCoffee wrote: - Why Andrea decided to ultimately side with Rob's plan without so much as a snippet about how she managed to reintegrate into the apparent majority or why she didn't go with Grant/Ashley/Natalie to boot annoying Phillip. Because at that time she was following Rob and doing what he said. Phillip even stated in the next episode that Andrea is cautious, and doesn't want to show that she's willing to make a move. In a way I think her INV happened because everything they could have included her in, was a key scene she was involved in during Episode 5. They just were not ready to show her in Episode 4, because Phillip had to be seen as dead man walking, and if he had any connection with Andrea it would not have been nearly as significant.
RedCoffee		#2306	[-]
Posts: 271 (03/28/11 03:41 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	SFC wrote: They clearly did not want Andrea to be seen as a boot target, because while we see her as on the outside. In the game she is in the inner circle as of now. Yes, but why? However the immediate story in that episode was clearly set. Phillip is set up as the alone outsider, if Andrea was put in there it would take away the isolation Phillip had. Rob and Grant had their own scenes which had their own little story. And she couldn't be lumped in with Ashley/Natalie since in the next episode she would be separated from them. Even Kristina was largely INV aside from being the boot target and going to Redemption Island. I see that, but if someone wins the game I find it odd why this story was presented with no transition to get us there. In E3, Andrea, Phillip, and Kristina are all on the outs in various ways. In E4 Andrea has rejoined the majority with no explanation. A page or two is missing from the book. The footage for those "missing pages" exists. There IS a reason why all of this happened, even if it's just Rob explaining why she's not a target at the moment. Why leave pages about the winner out? Phillip was still isolated and adding in Andrea's ability to overcome that isolation would only strengthen her story. Because at that time she was following Rob and doing what he said. Phillip even stated in the next episode that Andrea is cautious, and doesn't want to show that she's willing to make a move. In a way I think her INV happened because everything they could have included her in, was a key scene she was involved in during Episode 5. They just were not ready to show her in Episode 4, because Phillip had to be seen as dead man walking, and if he had any connection with Andrea it would not have been nearly as significant. Yes and again the question is why? Why she did it is more clear - she wants to lay low despite keeping their betrayal in mind. Why she succeeded is still a complete mystery. I don't think she successfully stayed in the majority due to a connection with Phillip - it hadn't happened yet. Rob chose her as #5 and risked Phillip as #6 despite all signs pointing to him as being the worse choice. Rob even comments on how he wants Phillip to stay in during this episode, yet he risks losing him. We can speculate all day about why it really happened but without the editors including the reason, how would the casual viewer know what happened? Perhaps they did want to wait to reveal parts of this in episode 5. I'm just saying that we're still missing the rest of it.
RedCoffee		#2307	[-]
Posts: 272 (03/28/11 03:51 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Thinking further, perhaps this situation is a clue to how they are editing Rob. I think that if you read between the lines of this situation, Rob may have made a mistake. He decides to risk booting Phillip (a guy who was shown as coming around to the idea of sticking with Rob) over Andrea, a person that does not trust him at all and has been portrayed as biding her time for a chance to strike. I feel like the real reason for this choice might paint Rob in a less dominant light if revealed in its entirety. Perhaps Rob's reason for keeping Andrea was that she seems to have forgotten the betrayal and will be a loyal soldier from here on out. Cut from that to a confessional from Andrea reiterating her "lay low and get even later" strategy. That's a clear "oops" on Rob's part and a sign that he is underestimating and/or misreading Andrea. We can't have Survivor-God Rob make a mistake like that, can we? Perhaps the reason for Andrea's INV and lack of inclusion in the discussion of who to boot had more to do with ensuring that Rob looks infallible than anything else. What that means for Rob's story (lost opportunity to create doubt vs. not consistent with ultimate superwinner edit) is unclear as well. Just random speculation.
Sarahs Monkey		#2308	[-]
Posts: 4222 (03/28/11 03:56 PM) Remember me? Reply Quote More Recent Posts	RedCoffee wrote: Perhaps the reason for Andrea's INV and lack of inclusion in the discussion of who to boot had more to do with ensuring that Rob looks infallible than anything else. What that means for Rob's story (lost opportunity to create doubt vs. not consistent with ultimate superwinner edit) is unclear as well. Yes, it's to focus the story on Rob's perspective, not Andrea's. Andrea was never shown as out of the majority because, from Rob's perspective, she wasn't. He voted out Matt and made sure she was ok. Life went on. Likewise, Andrea hasn't been shown as being distant from Rob and Grant, only Ashley and Natalie.
MasterThief		#2309	[-]
Posts: 608 (03/28/11 04:17 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Lazy Lurker wrote: Edgic Contenders Statistical Outlying Contenders: Matt, Rob, David, Natalie, Sarita Eliminated: Ashley, Grant, Julie, Mike (flatness), Phillip (OTT), Ralph (OTT), Steve She gets ripped a new one throughout the whole episode and yet she's still not eliminated? You aren't the only person who still has her as a "hanging by a thread" person, but I don't understand what that thread could possibly be and no one's ever elaborated. By my chart she is UTR1 UTR1 UTR2 UTR2 MORN3 OTTN3 which is almost the same as Ashley of all people.
Lemun		#2310	[-]
Posts: 507 (03/28/11 04:30 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Proofread carefully to see if you any words out. Remove this ad Redemption Island Edgic Final Ratings Ometepe Andrea – MORP1: We are reminded that she is both a player and a hard worker. Andrea is always thinking about the game. Chances? 8/10. Front runner. Ashley – OTTN4: I believe Ashley's spike in airtime will result in her being booted soon. Chances? 0/10. Eliminated. Grant – UTRP2: Grant's story is about challenges and being Rob's dummy. Chances? 0/10. Eliminated. Matt – CPP3: I'm going with CP over OTT because we this episode was a little more than just Matt is a religious fanatic. He makes a great connection with Krista and is shown making progress in his redemption/ salvation storyline. Could this be a wrap up of his arc? Next week will be very interesting in regards to Matt vs Stephanie. Chances? 1/10: Natalie - UTRN1: I gave her one more episode, and now I have to cut her off. She may go all the way, but due to Rob's confessional, she will not win. Chances? 0/10. Eliminated. Phillip - CPM5: Still CP! Unfortunately, this is bad for Philip. He is a distraction, and I believe his changing tone is signaling a move in a redemption arc along the lines of Kathy or Holly. Or he could be one of those OTT/CP characters like Lillian. I imagine we will see Philip through to the finale. I am almost tempted to go P, because although he is a very abrasive and strange character, we were meant to be on Phillip's side in both the lazy girls scene and the immunity clue scene. Chances? 0/10. Eliminated. Rob - CP4: Rob is the only real contender besides Andrea IMO. This would be the edit he would receive if he won. However, Edgic does say he probably won't win. Like Andrea, he is always thinking about the game. I'm tempted to give him an N tone this episode, but I don't think that was the intent. Chances: 7/10. Zapatera David – MOR4: Here is an example of a character that could easily be CP, but always seems to be MOR in everything that he does. David always speaks the obvious: We need to win. Keep your eyes open. Challenges are important. He is officially eliminated, along with the rest of Zap. Chances: 0/10. Eliminated. Julie - MORM3: Julie is getting an edit that leads me to believe she may be one of the last Zaps standing. She was negative in the openly rooting against Krista scene, but positive in the caring for Steph scene. We are also meant to agree with Julie that Sarita is annoying, but are left with a bad taste because Julie didn't follow through with what she thought was the right thing to do. Very indecisive person who will be a victim of bad karma in the end. She is continuously doing the opposite of what she is telling the camera she feels is the right thing to do with no follow up to why she made the decisions she did. Chances? 0/10. Eliminated. Krista – OTTP3: Nice redemption wrap up for Krista. Chances? 0/10 Eliminated. Mike - MOR3: Very flat character. Done. Chances? 0/10. Eliminated. Ralph – UTR2: Probably lasting awhile, but will go down after the merge. His story seems to be pretty much over. Chances: 0/10. Eliminated. Sarita – OTTN3: She reminds me of the edit Rita got from Fiji. An interesting and unique edit, but probably nothing really behind it. I think her story is wrapping up and she will be gone very soon. I am officially eliminating someone I had in contention for awhile. Chances: 0/10. Eliminated. Stephanie – CPM5: We saw the episode through her eyes, but I don't think we were necessarily supposed to be on her side. We saw why she failed in the game, but are supposed to admire her strength and will. She may come back, but I still don't think she will win. Chances: 0/10. Eliminated. Steve - MORN3: Making rude comments about others while not really doing much to help your own tribe or self is pretty bad way to be presented on Survivor. I think we are supposed to say “who gives the right for this guy to say something about anybody else.” He is shown laying around, doing nothing in challenges, and being holier than thou. This kind of explains his low visibility in certain episodes as well. Steve is presented as really not doing anything in this game while tearing down others who are actually trying to play. Chances: 0/10 Eliminated. Picks Andrea Rob
Oowatanite		#2311	[-]
Posts: 13102 (03/28/11 05:49 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Oo's Final Ratings Episode 6 Omega Rob CP4 Andrea CP1 Ashley OTTN3 Grant UTRP2 Natalie UTRM1 Phillip OTTN5 Zapata David MOR4 Julie UTR2 Mike UTR2 Ralph UTR2 Sarita OTTN3 Stephanie CPN5 Steve MOR4 *Rhode Island* Krista OTTP3 Matt OTTP3 WINNER LIST 1. Natalie 2. Andrea 3. Rob Eliminated : everyone else Last Edited By: Oowatanite 03/28/11 05:52 PM. Edited 1 times.
Oowatanite		#2312	[-]
Posts: 13103 (03/28/11 06:04 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	We have a total of 17 voters this week. EPISODE SIX Andrea ?1 Ashley OTTN? David CP4 Grant UTR?? Julie UTR2 Krista OTTP3 Matt OTTP3 Mike UTR2 Natalie UTRN1 Phillip OTTM5 Ralph UTR2 Rob CP4 Sarita OTTN3 Stephanie CP?5 Steve ?4 Close Calls *Rating* Andrea .. MOR 9, CP 6, ~~UTR 2~~ Steve .. MOR 8, CP 8, ~~OTT 1~~ *Tone* Grant .. Pos 9, neutral 8 Stephanie .. Mix 7, Pos 4, ~~Neg 3~~, ~~neutral 3~~ *Visibility* Ashley .. Vis3 8, Vis4 9 Grant .. Vis1 9, Vis2 8 First Place Winner Votes (out of 20) : Andrea 14, Natalie 3, Rob 3 The close calls are now open to debate by everyone. Final calls will be made by the watchdogs and, if needed, myself. Close call decisions will be posted Wednesday. Last Edited By: Oowatanite 03/28/11 10:35 PM. Edited 3 times.
Lazy Lurker		#2313	[-]
Posts: 45 (03/28/11 06:07 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	MasterThief wrote: Lazy Lurker wrote: Edgic Contenders Statistical Outlying Contenders: Matt, Rob, David, Natalie, Sarita Eliminated: Ashley, Grant, Julie, Mike (flatness), Phillip (OTT), Ralph (OTT), Steve She gets ripped a new one throughout the whole episode and yet she's still not eliminated? You aren't the only person who still has her as a "hanging by a thread" person, but I don't understand what that thread could possibly be and no one's ever elaborated. By my chart she is UTR1 UTR1 UTR2 UTR2 MORN3 OTTN3 which is almost the same as Ashley of all people. I had Natalie in there and I didn't want to catch heat from the Sarita/Ralph fanfic shippers.
jedijun		#2314	[-]
Posts: 1539 (03/28/11 06:26 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Close Calls Rating Andrea- CP Steve- MOR Tone Grant- Neutral Stephanie- P Visibility Ashley- 3 Grant- 2
katerade		#2315	[-]
Posts: 101 (03/28/11 06:55 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	RedCoffee wrote: In this regard, Andrea probably would have been a better backup to the Kristina vote than Phillip, but she wasn't even considered. Why? What did she do to keep herself in the majority, given this situation? Thats a really good point. If she were the winner I could see the editors putting a scene in at the merge where she describes how she got there. My feeling is that she might be TOO obvious as a winner to the regular viewers if we see her getting the better of Rob so early. Obviously she has managed to pull one over on him a bit since she doesnt trust him but he seems to trust her. Playing that up so early would be putting her out there as an obvious threat against Rob, whereas in her type of edit we shouldnt see her game pick up until the merge episode. it also would counter the argument that some people have for Rob winning, which is "we dont have a way for Rob to lose". The only thing that hints at Rob losing is "hell hath no fury like an Andrea scorned" which hasent come to fruition yet. Edited to add: and also, like you said above, they dont want to show Rob's weakness too clearly. Premerge is all about hinting at stuff in the early episodes and then telling the distraction story. They dont want to give it away too soon. Then at the merge they remind everyone of what the underlying theme of the season is and what the winner's story will be. Then the winner's story slowly builds from there. Edited again to add: Dont forget that its a BIG BIG blunder on Rob's part to keep Andrea in this game. He identified her as being a threat and got rid of Matt BECAUSE of the threat that Andrea posed. The editors didnt need to show tha,t they could have just showed Matt shaking hands with the other team. They want the audience to know about the lurking threat of Andrea, but to have largely forgotten about it by the merge so that they can build up the "Rob can't lose" story. When have we ever had a winner who was edited to be absolutely unassailable? Last Edited By: katerade 03/28/11 07:38 PM. Edited 2 times.
getting real		#2316	[-]
Posts: 2133 (03/28/11 07:40 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Still unexplained is why Rob wanted to keep a nice, hardworking female with an axe to grind against him and a clear partner on track to re-enter the game over Phillip, who is inept in many ways and a fantastic distraction/goat. Sending her to RI pits the partners against each other. In this regard, Andrea probably would have been a better backup to the Kristina vote than Phillip, but she wasn't even considered. Why? What did she do to keep herself in the majority, given this situation? RC, I think the editing intent is to show that Rob is thinking about FTC opponents at least as much as disposing of immediate threats. Yes, when the decision was made to boot Matt, the reason he gave for public onsumption was that Romber-like pairings were dangerous. However, his confessionals suggested that what weighed on his mind equally, if not more, was Matt playing nice and the possibility of that influencing the jurors at FTC. ("I mean I get it. Matt's playing Survivor. Text-book Survivor. But he's playing against me."). We've also been shown clearly that his first wish is to go the finals against girls who 'have done nothing'. Remember, the edit has only marginally differentiated between Andrea and the other two girls as far as camp life is concerned. So when it came to choosing an alternative boot target to Christina, Phillip's goat appeal just didn't have greater weight than keeping the girls happy and - importantly from Rob's point of view - apparently uninvolved. So I don't really think there is that much of a gap in the story as far as Andrea's immediate safety was concerned. I think Rob's assumptions have been fairly clearly mapped out. What will eventually be made of those assumptions is another matter. OO, Are there not at least 3 votes for Rob? I've taken note of at least Warrior and Phoenix (whoo hoo!) apart from myself...
dragonwolf22		#2317	[-]
Posts: 87 (03/28/11 07:41 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Sarahs Monkey wrote: He won't be...based upon you saying so? Yes.
I LUV TIJUANA		#2318	[-]
Posts: 17845 (03/28/11 07:42 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	katerade: Andrea is so much less obvious than Rob or Matt.
BetterThanTheShow		#2319	[-]
Posts: 5 (03/28/11 07:48 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Close Calls Rating Andrea- CP Steve- MOR Tone Grant- Neutral Stephanie- M Visibility Ashley- 3 Grant- 1
dragonwolf22		#2320	[-]
Posts: 89 (03/28/11 07:50 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Proofread carefully to see if you any words out. Remove this ad The thing is - Rob would be getting the exact same edit this season regardless of whether he won, or finished in 4th place. Either a glorious winner's edit, or a glorious "best player who should have won" edit. It tells us nothing. But there are enough clues pointing to Rob being this season's Terry Deitz, not Tom Westman. Either way the edit will be virtually the same.

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S-22 Edgic (editing and logic)