S-23 Edgic (editing and logic) in Survivor Speculation Forum

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S-23 Edgic (editing and logic)

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getting real		#6421	[-]
Posts: 2859 (12/12/11 12:08 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Save time... see it my way. - Said ad! Remove this ad Sarahs Monkey wrote: Bulletin Bored wrote: Yes, Redsox. Also important was what happened in her scene with Cochran. He asked for information and she very matter-of-factly told him she would not offer any, making it clear that their deal was one of "You help us but we can't give you anything in return." This scene was included in the merge episode to justify Sophie's angry confessionals about Cochran in his boot episode. She owed him nothing because she made it clear before he made his big move that Upolu did not trust him enough to share their target. While Coach seduced Cochran over Earl Grey Tea, Sophie offered him a Black & White Cookie and said "Take it or leave it." Ding ding ding. Which ultimately explains what? A jury vote. This only explains a Sophie win to the audience if they took Herod's side in his quest to deprive Judaea of most of its first-born. To present only this side of a contestant, follow it up with machete-wielding, serial-killing connections and provide her with no balancing redeeming features whatsover does her no favors at all. What have they got in store for her next episode? Plucking the wings off fireflies in front of the jury to show how she outsmarted Savaii? Edited to add that Bubo is mixing his metaphors a bit: Earl Grey tea? Surely it had to be ambrosia or nectar? Last Edited By: getting real 12/12/11 12:12 AM. Edited 1 times.
Panasi		#6422	[-]
Posts: 132 (12/12/11 12:26 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I've been duped! Well played.
Bulletin Bored		#6423	[-]
Posts: 26017 (12/12/11 12:32 AM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Shades of Grey vs. Black & White, gr. One of the major themes of the season. Which is the better way to play? Coach-style or Brandon-style. Sophie's gameplay is a mix of both but the edit never fails to let her explain that while she plays in a similar fashion, she never crosses the lines they don't seem to mind crossing. She'll keep the information about the idol from Brandon but she won't pray for it since she knows Coach already has it. She'll be honest with other players but she won't be cruel about it, as Brandon was to Edna before her boot.
Sarahs Monkey		#6424	[-]
Posts: 5380 (12/12/11 12:45 AM) Remember me? Reply Quote More Recent Posts	getting real wrote: Sarahs Monkey wrote: Bulletin Bored wrote: Yes, Redsox. Also important was what happened in her scene with Cochran. He asked for information and she very matter-of-factly told him she would not offer any, making it clear that their deal was one of "You help us but we can't give you anything in return." This scene was included in the merge episode to justify Sophie's angry confessionals about Cochran in his boot episode. She owed him nothing because she made it clear before he made his big move that Upolu did not trust him enough to share their target. While Coach seduced Cochran over Earl Grey Tea, Sophie offered him a Black & White Cookie and said "Take it or leave it." Ding ding ding. Which ultimately explains what? A jury vote. This only explains a Sophie win to the audience if they took Herod's side in his quest to deprive Judaea of most of its first-born. To present only this side of a contestant, follow it up with machete-wielding, serial-killing connections and provide her with no balancing redeeming features whatsover does her no favors at all. What have they got in store for her next episode? Plucking the wings off fireflies in front of the jury to show how she outsmarted Savaii? Edited to add that Bubo is mixing his metaphors a bit: Earl Grey tea? Surely it had to be ambrosia or nectar? Oh my heck she wasn't made to look like a serial killer and she has redeeming features. Reductio Ad Absurdum much?
getting real		#6425	[-]
Posts: 2860 (12/12/11 12:57 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Bubo But what is the intent behind only showing the audience that one-dimensional side of her? Even Heidik, who was arguably given the most villainous edit of any winner, was given scenes to soften that 'business trip' persona. He serenaded Helen with his guitar on her anniversary, he played golf with the guys, he was kind to Jan., etc. I can't accept that what is shown is the entire sum of her personality and that they had nothing in the thousands of hours of footage to give her some tone? What I see, instead, is that they reinforce the one-dimensionality by gratuitous machete sounds even when she's not in camera shot. And I cannot fathom why they would do that to her if she were the winner. Well played, re. the black/white v grey concept, btw.
cindidindi76		#6426	[-]
Posts: 28418 (12/12/11 12:58 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Bulletin Bored wrote: Cochrussel wrote: Maybe this is the first season where there is no winner? Or someone technically wins the games, but breaks the rules in some way or pisses off the producers? Ladies and Gentlemen, the winner of Survivor: South Pacific!
tarheel66		#6427	[-]
Posts: 1546 (12/12/11 01:04 AM) I'm with STUPID! Reply Quote More Recent Posts	getting real wrote: Edited to add that Bubo is mixing his metaphors a bit: Earl Grey tea? Surely it had to be ambrosia or nectar? maybe Grey Goose?
getting real		#6428	[-]
Posts: 2861 (12/12/11 01:04 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Oh my heck she wasn't made to look like a serial killer and she has redeeming features. Reductio Ad Absurdum much? Being reduced to the point of being absurd is one of my favorite things, lol..
Phoenix1269		#6429	[-]
Posts: 1477 (12/12/11 02:01 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	some really good discussion over the last number of pages! nice stats work tarheel and atlas! -- all this sophie talk has gotten me to thinking...what exactly are my issues with Sophie. ie. Why don't i think she'll win? Aside for all the story analysis stuff... since this IS the edgic thread... what is it EDGICALLY that i don't like about Sophie. So...like anytime i have a big decision to make, i wrote up a pros and cons list for Sophie... here it is: Edgic and Edit Pros for Sophie: - partly spared from some of the over all N-religious stuff - somewhat present in every episode - borderline CP - could be an "alternative" winner to Coach - comments on other players (similar to Danni) - has a fairly decent MORD (1.34), BUT is trending a bit low for a non-swap season (in these seasons the winner tends to trend at the higher end of the scale) Hmmmm, interesting... the only Edgic thing going for her is her MORD numbers, the rest of it is story only. Edgic & Edit Cons against Sophie: - No developed jury connections - Extremely limited SPV (notable exception - Whitney's Stupid smart people comment) - Very low CVF… LOWER than Bob & Natalie & Danni at this point Bob E11 = 22, Danni/Natalie E11 = 23 Sophie E11= 21 Bob E12 = 25, Natalie E12 = 24, Danni E12 = 27 Sophie E12 = 22 or 23 (per VF chart, Sophie = a 1-2) - Static VF (10 - VF 2s out of 12 episodes) - winners usually draw around a total of 6 or 7 of the same VF number (exceptions...Rich and Rob). 10 of any VF is awfully high for a Type C winner. - Has 5, VF 2's in a row. Since S11, no winner has more than 3 of any VF in a row (note: i went by the actual VF charts, not the final edgic vote as the VF chart is more consistent & objective than the votes). - static MOR edit (still reminds me of Alina!) - Zero CPs (all winners since S16 have a minimum 2 CPs BEFORE E12 (this includes Bob… 2 of his OTTs were called in a CC with CP. I have always felt that he should have gone CP there). - poor fit for Type C (note this is by my Winner's Type definitions as seen on page 2, not Hippo's definitions that he referenced a few pages ago) - No P tone at all and only 1 toned Episode (E11) and it was an N. Usually the winner has received tone of some sort before E10. For a Type C winner, the average number of toned episodes (P/N/M) is 6.22. Sophie is well below the average. She doesn't even have OTT episodes to "offset" the lack of tone (like Fabio did). Hmmmm, interesting, i was able to pull up a lot of EDGIC reasons why Sophie is not edgically viable...even if i add in some CPs early on as per some of the other posters' charts, she is still majorly flawed in terms of VF and Tone and Winner's Type. Last season, I could easily forgive Rob his high VF since he fit SO WELL otherwise, but Sophie doesn't really fit ANY of the past stats and patterns. Her lack of SPV is probably one of the most troubling aspects of her edit (ie not the edgic part) for me though. I went into this to try to convince myself that Sophie is a good pick, but i ended up convincing myself that she is not. (and I didn't even take into consideration the various weird imagery that Upolu has gotten (like the rotting fish) or the group negatives (like the Manson Family SPV!)) lol
ZombieLinda		#6430	[-]
Posts: 11494 (12/12/11 02:21 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Save time... see it my way. - Said ad! Remove this ad As if you did all that to convince yourself she's a good pick. You were already convinced she's NOT based on the 5000 times you've said so and just repeated all the reasons why. And we get it. This is ~EDGIC~ so no one can discuss anything but random self-invented measurements.
cantthinkofaname		#6431	[-]
Posts: 2460 (12/12/11 03:57 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	getting real wrote: Ratings Albert: MOR2 Brandon: OTTN2<<<<?????!!!!!! Coach: CP5 Edna: OTTP5 Rick: UTR2 Sophie: MOR3 Winner None. As things stand, no edit appeals. I suspect much of the editors' justification winner will be revealed very late in the piece.
Swim		#6432	[-]
Posts: 564 (12/12/11 06:00 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Phoenix1269 wrote: Her lack of SPV is probably one of the most troubling aspects of her edit (ie not the edgic part) for me though. Yeah, same here. We don't know how anyone feels about her (unless you wanted to watch insider clips, I believe). It's not that there aren't comments from other players about her, it's that they're not including them. Is there a chart that tracks SPV for each player? I'm just curious since there seems to be a chart for everything else, and I'm wondering where Sophie falls in on that. And yes, even though Sophie had that one conversation with Cochran, I still think her merge episode was pretty lacking. Even Natalie had a better one where she was given credit for getting them to boot Erik (and that was reaching). Who got the credit for turning Cochran? Coach. Who saw right through Ozzy? Coach. (And I believe Albert too). If they wanted to give Sophie a hand in turning Cochran, why wasn't there a clip of him saying something like, "Sophie's so smart and it's nice to have intellegent conversations with her. I really do belong with Upolu." But we didn't. We ended up with Cochran gushing about how Coach is so much more intellegent than he would've thought. It reminded me of Steph gushing about what a "cool chick" Danni was when she and Judd went on that reward with Danni and Gary. When the major character of the season is gushing about a player, it's something to pay attention to. All the conversation with Sophie set up is that Cochran didn't know who Upolu was voting for, and that's why he didn't vote for Keith on the first vote.
getting real		#6433	[-]
Posts: 2862 (12/12/11 06:07 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Brandon: OTTN2<<<<?????!!!!!! Hi there, C. If that's your way of politely asking whether I'd made a typo, your hunch was spot on. Very contrite I am about it, too. OTTN5 it is and thank you for the excitement.
Cuttlefish		#6434	[-]
Posts: 76 (12/12/11 09:52 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	And we get it. This is ~EDGIC~ so no one can discuss anything but random self-invented measurements. It's not so much you can't discuss it, just that story arguments tend to not hold as much weight as Edgic ones since, and I might be going out on a limb here, this thread is about Edgic thread and not the story analysis. All them no good maths and sketchy observations are kind of the point. Also, 'self-invented measurements'? As opposed to what, measurements that exist because they were given to us by Zeus from Mount Olympus? All measurements are 'self-invented', there is no objective standard for what a 'second' or a 'meter' or a 'pile' is. If you have a problem with trying to quantify 'random' things, then you're free to not use any system of measurement at all. But that might make buying petrol at the pump kind of a problem when you can't get the cashier to agree on what a 'liter' is, since it IS just a random self-invented measurement.
Phoenix1269		#6435	[-]
Posts: 1478 (12/12/11 11:00 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Cuttlefish wrote: And we get it. This is ~EDGIC~ so no one can discuss anything but random self-invented measurements. It's not so much you can't discuss it, just that story arguments tend to not hold as much weight as Edgic ones since, and I might be going out on a limb here, this thread is about Edgic thread and not the story analysis. All them no good maths and sketchy observations are kind of the point. Also, 'self-invented measurements'? As opposed to what, measurements that exist because they were given to us by Zeus from Mount Olympus? All measurements are 'self-invented', there is no objective standard for what a 'second' or a 'meter' or a 'pile' is. If you have a problem with trying to quantify 'random' things, then you're free to not use any system of measurement at all. But that might make buying petrol at the pump kind of a problem when you can't get the cashier to agree on what a 'liter' is, since it IS just a random self-invented measurement. LMAO @ Cuttlefish! too funny!
Phoenix1269		#6436	[-]
Posts: 1479 (12/12/11 11:04 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	REMINDER PLEASE GET YOUR VOTES IN TODAY I WILL BE DOING THE TALLY LATER TONITE... much later tonite as it turns out... i have a long drive ahead of me, but none the less i'll do the stats when i get to where i'm going. on that note, i am not exactly sure when i'll get them done, so don't panic if it's really late tonite or early tomorrow. thanks
tarheel66		#6437	[-]
Posts: 1547 (12/12/11 11:05 AM) I'm with STUPID! Reply Quote More Recent Posts	^ safe travels.
scepticA		#6438	[-]
Posts: 2138 (12/12/11 11:12 AM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Some ARE objective: Second: the duration of 9,192,631,770 cycles of the radiation associated with a specified transition of the cesium-133 atom Meter: the distance traveled by light in a vacuum in 1/299,792,458 second Beauty: Measured in Millihelens, based on the fact that Helen of Troy had a face that could launch a thousand ships; a millihelen is thus defined as the amount of beauty that can launch one ship.
IAmNo4		#6439	[-]
Posts: 275 (12/12/11 11:25 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Episode 12 ratings Albert -- MOR2 Brandon -- OTTN4 Coach -- CPN5 Edna -- OTTP5 Rick -- UTR1 Sophie -- MOR2 Cochran -- OTTP2 Ozzy -- MOR2 Winner: Coach Sophie Last Edited By: IAmNo4 12/12/11 11:28 AM. Edited 1 times.
MasterThief	MT - SP EPISODE 12	#6440	[-]
Posts: 1320 (12/12/11 11:26 AM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Save time... see it my way. - Said ad! Remove this ad Albert - MOR2 Brandon - OTTN4 Coach - CP5 Cochran - OTTP2 Edna - OTTP5 Ozzy - MOR2 Rick - UTR1 Sophie - MOR2 Winner: Coach.... I guess?

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S-23 Edgic (editing and logic)