S-23 Edgic (editing and logic) in Survivor Speculation Forum

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S-23 Edgic (editing and logic)

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RedCoffee		#6701	[-]
Posts: 1283 (12/14/11 09:37 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Ads no more Remove this ad Albert is a possibility but I think Brandon/Ozzy is a safer bet. Either of them would probably need to win immunity to be safe (Ozzy as a legit jury threat, Brandon as a make-believe one). We know Coach is guaranteed F4 unless he pulls a Brandon. If the returner wins immunity, you have the choice between Albert, Rick, and Sophie. While the smartest boot there (from what we've seen) is probably Sophie, Coach clearly wants her there at the end for some reason. Clear F3 winner: Ozzy (the show presents it as a foregone conclusion that he wins if he gets there) Clear F3 losers: Albert, Rick (no indication that they would be successful, indications that they are not respected in general) F3 status seems more ambiguous: Coach, Sophie, Brandon (you could lean one way or another with these, though clearly there are strong opinions on each)
dotsdfe		#6702	[-]
Posts: 1404 (12/14/11 09:55 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	If Albert is the next boot...Coach loses. For sure. We've seen for sure that Sophie and Ozzy would definitely beat him in the end (well...assuming Ozzy comes back). If Albert is voted off, one of Sophie/Ozzy has to make the finals and wins. The only real chance Coach has is against Rick and Albert. The edit has definitely shown us that. Of course, that also means that Coach has to go back on his deal with Ozzy most likely, so that would be interesting as well.
RedCoffee		#6703	[-]
Posts: 1285 (12/14/11 10:04 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	dotsdfe wrote: If Albert is the next boot...Coach loses. For sure. We've seen for sure that Sophie and Ozzy would definitely beat him in the end (well...assuming Ozzy comes back). If Albert is voted off, one of Sophie/Ozzy has to make the finals and wins. The only real chance Coach has is against Rick and Albert. The edit has definitely shown us that. Of course, that also means that Coach has to go back on his deal with Ozzy most likely, so that would be interesting as well. We have? I've found that arguing with people in this topic is no longer fun so I suppose I will just have to take your word for it.
Soladrian		#6704	[-]
Posts: 26 (12/14/11 10:07 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I don't think Albert is the next boot. Then again, I don't see how Rick doesn't make F3. Unless Brandon/Ozzy (pretty sure Ozzy's coming back) goes out next and Albert wins F4 immunity. Sophie/Coach vote Rick while Albert/Rick vote Sophie. Sophie wins a fire making challenge and we have a F3 of Sophie/Coach/Albert. This also explains Rick's opening confessional of fire making. I'm super speculating now but the edit tells me a Sophie/Coach/Albert F3 with Sophie winning but Coach stealing a couple of votes. BTW, people who argue Jim's gonna vote for Coach are dead wrong. Jim wants someone smart to win, someone like himself, Jim's gonna argue for Sophie at FTC and Sophie wins a la Erik/Natalie and David/Rob.
Archibald C		#6705	[-]
Posts: 281 (12/14/11 10:15 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	This whole season has been about believers and non-believers, liars and truth-tellers. The theme of the season has been the truth coming out in the end. What we are finding as we draw to an end is that the person who has not been shown as part of the Bible crusade, Sophie, is actually the one who is the most loyal. She admonished Coach for asking God to help him when she knew he was lying to everyone, admonished Cochran for betraying her tribe, and then threw Albert under the bus for being sneaky. Coach has turned out to be a total liar who justifies betraying people by saying that God made him do it, Brandon turned out to just be a lunatic, and Albert turned out to be a sneaky, untrustworthy SOB. The only one who has come out smelling like roses is Sophie. I think it will be her and Coach at the end, as they have been linked as a pair throughout the game, literally from day 1 with their Russian conversation. I think the key to who wins between the two is in her confession when she refers to his praying for God to help him as "icky", which I'm guessing is how the jury will perceive it also.
tarheel66		#6706	[-]
Posts: 1592 (12/14/11 10:16 PM) I'm with STUPID! Reply Quote More Recent Posts	HagridOfTheDeep wrote: ^Really tarheel? I thought this episode made it pretty clear he'd be a third-placer. But I guess that scenario would rely on Ozzy not making the FTC... and Ozzy's definitely an interesting wildcard right now. So maybe you're right. I see what you mean. That could be the case, the third-placer thing. It just doesn't seem that there's room for them both in a final; the edit paints them as too similar from a game play standpoint, so there would be a redundancy for the viewer, from a game play perspective. It just looked like the edit set up an 'Albert or Sophie' tension tonight. They've both been edited as a 2, strategy wise. they seemed to often share strategy with each other. So the break, to me, means one or the other next time, if Ozzy is the returner and one of the remaining 4 Upolu has to go. With that either/or, I think Sophie came out on top in this edit. Albert got another bad recap of his game, as a context for what happened in the rest of the episode. He's shown as the one with more tension with Rick and Coach this time, and Sophie's shown with more connection with them. At TC, Sophie refers to her connection with Rick. And, of course, the three of them voted together. In the context of the meltdown of the episode, Albert ended up as the outsider. Rick would easily go for him before Sophie. So would Coach. That's what we were told tonight. Albert expressed thoughts about Rick in the F3, and Coach in the F3, as good beatable choices. One assumes that Sophie shares these same feelings, since they've, up to now, been shown sharing the same game play. Her connection with the two is shown as stronger at this point. Of course, FLF's post reminds me that Brandon could be the returner. But I felt the last part of the edit shows Brandon as finally having let go of the game. He says it's just not for him, and seems relieved. It's consistent with him having checked out of 'the game' long ago, in the edit at least. So I'm thinking Ozzy, and Ozzy winning immunity on return would force the Albert or Sophie scenario, imo. An aside: Ozzy previewed saying he's just going to win and win. Two immunity wins. But not three? So, beats Brandon, wins F5 immunity, but loses F4 immunity?
Archibald C		#6707	[-]
Posts: 282 (12/14/11 10:25 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	And on the note of Ozzy possibly winning: Do you think that if Ozzy came back a 3rd time, fought his way back from redemption island twice, overthrew the dominant alliance lead by Coach, and then won the whole thing, that he would ever get an UTR1 episode? Even though he's playing a different game on redemption, he's still Ozzy. They didn't hesitate to shovel Boston Rob down our throats last season, and they wouldn't hesitate to do it with Ozzy.
BlakeB717		#6708	[-]
Posts: 3912 (12/14/11 10:26 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	My ratings: Albert CPN4 Brandon CP4 Coach CP4 Rick MOR2 Sophie MOR3 Winner: Coach
NotGregBuis		#6709	[-]
Posts: 579 (12/14/11 10:33 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	RC, you're a great poster but I think you're off base there. The edit has shown us that if Ozzy makes final 3, he doesn't necessarily win (He asks Cochran for the crucial 5th vote, but gets indecisiveness). You've got to think about how they edited past Immunity to the end winners. They hit us over the head with the fact that Fabio would win if he made top 3 again and again. They did it with JT as well, giving us conversations at f4 and f3 as to voting him off if he doesn't win it. I think the way they edited the duel was crucial, because it was a foregone conclusion Ozzy would win, but they manufactured some doubt with Sophie's subtitled "she's got it!" and such. Ozzy being separate from the drama of this episode is good as well, because his win is going to be like a Deus Ex Machina to break apart the cult and punish them for all of their wickedness. Also, Brandon is nowhere near N for this episode. He is M if not P. His gang background story, the fact that they kept hammering home that he was naively taking a bullet for Albert? That's positive stuff. And they made Albert look like the douche for not giving the necklace back to him. Coach is tough to figure. He was specifically separate from the negativity at camp, and the edit seemed sympathetic to his struggle as to who he would vote off. I'd go with a P or maybe M tone for him as well.
katerade		#6710	[-]
Posts: 270 (12/14/11 10:41 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Ads no more Remove this ad its amazing to me how for most people a Sophie win is a forgone conclusion. I havent been very involved with edgic this year, but i have been skimming the posts here and there, and it seems to me that everyone really has their heads in the sand about Coach. he is one of the most obvious winner edits we've had. His negatives have ALL come up in the poast merge, when we normally get doubt about a winner. Everyone is once again falling for the bait and switch that occurs post merge, when a previously eliminated player (sophie, ozzy) who was eliminated for a good reason (bland, negative) is brought back to life to try and confuse the viewers. When coach wins on Sunday every single viewer will be able to say why. In fact, all of edgic will be able to look back and see that he had a glaring winner edit. For some reason people have been looking at sub-par winner candidates in any attempt to deny that coach wins. Dawn was totally sub-par as a winner pick, and was basically holly/that other mom-figure that everyone wants to win and therefore everyone tries to squeeze into a winner edit. Jim was even a bad choice - he would have been a CP strategic winner that they painted as being mislead by the pretty boy ... not winning. coach's religious scenes have not been portrayed as negative. do you think they can hide that crap when it played such a huge role in the season?? they show it in as positive a light as possible. He is getting strength from his god to make the tough choices he has to make. he was even absolved by brandon for voting him out, because it was god's will. He basically got a free pass for betraying his ally, because the audience knew exactly why brandon was the right choice to go. After this season, I propose adding in a new edgic rule regarding returning players getting a different edit than a previous season - its obviously a major clue to the winner, as should have been obvious from episode 1.
RedCoffee		#6711	[-]
Posts: 1286 (12/14/11 10:42 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	NotGregBuis wrote: RC, you're a great poster but I think you're off base there. The edit has shown us that if Ozzy makes final 3, he doesn't necessarily win (He asks Cochran for the crucial 5th vote, but gets indecisiveness). You've got to think about how they edited past Immunity to the end winners. They hit us over the head with the fact that Fabio would win if he made top 3 again and again. They did it with JT as well, giving us conversations at f4 and f3 as to voting him off if he doesn't win it. I think the way they edited the duel was crucial, because it was a foregone conclusion Ozzy would win, but they manufactured some doubt with Sophie's subtitled "she's got it!" and such. Ozzy being separate from the drama of this episode is good as well, because his win is going to be like a Deus Ex Machina to break apart the cult and punish them for all of their wickedness. If the first dozen times I talked about this stuff wasn't convincing, there's no point in rehashing it. Guess we'll see. If the best they could do was "Cochran might not vote for Ozzy," I might sleep through Ozzy's coronation err FTC performance. Archibald C wrote: And on the note of Ozzy possibly winning: Do you think that if Ozzy came back a 3rd time, fought his way back from redemption island twice, overthrew the dominant alliance lead by Coach, and then won the whole thing, that he would ever get an UTR1 episode? Even though he's playing a different game on redemption, he's still Ozzy. They didn't hesitate to shovel Boston Rob down our throats last season, and they wouldn't hesitate to do it with Ozzy.
RockLobsta		#6712	[-]
Posts: 3707 (12/14/11 10:49 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	All of these ratings seem super obvious to me so I'm not really going to elaborate except that I could see Edna being UTRP and Sophie being CPP or CPM or CP. She's kind of hard to get tone right when there is tone because even when she's the underdog she's kind of a stone cold bitch (<3).
Cuauhtemoc Cosby		#6713	[-]
Posts: 20002 (12/14/11 10:53 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	katerade wrote: its amazing to me how for most people a Sophie win is a forgone conclusion. I havent been very involved with edgic this year, but i have been skimming the posts here and there, and it seems to me that everyone really has their heads in the sand about Coach. he is one of the most obvious winner edits we've had. His negatives have ALL come up in the poast merge, when we normally get doubt about a winner. Everyone is once again falling for the bait and switch that occurs post merge, when a previously eliminated player (sophie, ozzy) who was eliminated for a good reason (bland, negative) is brought back to life to try and confuse the viewers. When coach wins on Sunday every single viewer will be able to say why. In fact, all of edgic will be able to look back and see that he had a glaring winner edit. For some reason people have been looking at sub-par winner candidates in any attempt to deny that coach wins. Dawn was totally sub-par as a winner pick, and was basically holly/that other mom-figure that everyone wants to win and therefore everyone tries to squeeze into a winner edit. Jim was even a bad choice - he would have been a CP strategic winner that they painted as being mislead by the pretty boy ... not winning. coach's religious scenes have not been portrayed as negative. do you think they can hide that crap when it played such a huge role in the season?? they show it in as positive a light as possible. He is getting strength from his god to make the tough choices he has to make. he was even absolved by brandon for voting him out, because it was god's will. He basically got a free pass for betraying his ally, because the audience knew exactly why brandon was the right choice to go. After this season, I propose adding in a new edgic rule regarding returning players getting a different edit than a previous season - its obviously a major clue to the winner, as should have been obvious from episode 1. Agreed.
tarheel66		#6714	[-]
Posts: 1593 (12/14/11 10:53 PM) I'm with STUPID! Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Kaiasian wrote: Coach is NOT negative. "He's negative b/c Brandon said Coach wouldn't vote him out!" That's not a real reason. Now if we got "Coach is a hypocrite for playing me and the entire tribe", then that's negative. The whole praying scene isn't negative. It's basically explaining why Coach votes the way he did. And I want to say how great this episode. Thank you Brandon (and Albert) for making this one interesting. if we look at how things were shown, instead of what was shown. We can be shown rationalization for things, but that doesn't mean they're necessarily positive or negative. explained game play does not rationalize the edit tone-wise. It might differentiate a rating, but not the tone of it. The music was crazy. They chose sinister shots for him at times. The multiple (as in many) reaction shots of the jury weren't positive, by any means. Even Sophie, his partner, had her half-grin eyebrow raises at TC. not necessarily negative from her, but more of her calm 'questionable' assessment. I think the thing with Brandon was, they subtitled the "It's God's will" to him at the hug. Some of the edit this season, and very much this episode, is unprecedented in Survivor (or similar 'reality' shows) for it's content and how it's presented. I've seen folks before talk about something being God's will about their own game fate, but rarely, if ever, about booting somebody else. I just don't know of a precedent for that kind of thing...certainly not for a winner edit. It just felt 'off'...doesn't quite sit right, and it (and most of his edit this episode) didn't feel good with other casuals I watched with. If nothing else, that scene with Brandon was at least pitiful. You don't tell the kid that it's God's will to be betrayed, because you prayed about it, one episode after the conversations at the family reward. It's just a fulfillment of the "bullet through the head" contrast with loving him that we've been shown by the edit before. That's 'nefarious', and highly manipulative. Yeah, he was not part of the main meltdown at camp, so wasn't edited into that. But the main thrust of the episode, and his edit in it, didn't present him favorably. In the context of the rest of the season's edit, it's a further fulfillment of the previous negative edit investment in him. Just being shown why somebody might be doing something doesn't mean the tone of it necessarily one way or another. It can still be negative and be explained. Last Edited By: tarheel66 12/14/11 11:00 PM. Edited 1 times.
IAmNo4		#6715	[-]
Posts: 333 (12/14/11 10:55 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	katerade wrote: its amazing to me how for most people a Sophie win is a forgone conclusion. I havent been very involved with edgic this year, but i have been skimming the posts here and there, and it seems to me that everyone really has their heads in the sand about Coach. he is one of the most obvious winner edits we've had. His negatives have ALL come up in the poast merge, when we normally get doubt about a winner. Everyone is once again falling for the bait and switch that occurs post merge, when a previously eliminated player (sophie, ozzy) who was eliminated for a good reason (bland, negative) is brought back to life to try and confuse the viewers. When coach wins on Sunday every single viewer will be able to say why. In fact, all of edgic will be able to look back and see that he had a glaring winner edit. For some reason people have been looking at sub-par winner candidates in any attempt to deny that coach wins. Dawn was totally sub-par as a winner pick, and was basically holly/that other mom-figure that everyone wants to win and therefore everyone tries to squeeze into a winner edit. Jim was even a bad choice - he would have been a CP strategic winner that they painted as being mislead by the pretty boy ... not winning. coach's religious scenes have not been portrayed as negative. do you think they can hide that crap when it played such a huge role in the season?? they show it in as positive a light as possible. He is getting strength from his god to make the tough choices he has to make. he was even absolved by brandon for voting him out, because it was god's will. He basically got a free pass for betraying his ally, because the audience knew exactly why brandon was the right choice to go. After this season, I propose adding in a new edgic rule regarding returning players getting a different edit than a previous season - its obviously a major clue to the winner, as should have been obvious from episode 1. Sophie was never eliminated, what are you talking about? And Dawn & Jim were all reasonable picks at the time, just not THE most reasonable ones.
IAmNo4		#6716	[-]
Posts: 334 (12/14/11 10:59 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Terrible episode for Ozzy. Not even a single confessional? He's not winning.
Panasi		#6717	[-]
Posts: 145 (12/14/11 10:59 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	there was some crazy music for coach when he was praying on the beach, but most of the crazy music was reserved for brandon (and played pretty much whenever he opened his mouth), remember coach also had inspirational/uplifting music played during his confessionals IAmNo4 wrote: Terrible episode for Ozzy. Not even a single confessional? He's not winning. agreed, if he were to come back and win they would have had to show some of his conversation with edna Last Edited By: Panasi 12/14/11 11:11 PM. Edited 1 times.
Soladrian		#6718	[-]
Posts: 28 (12/14/11 11:05 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Albert CPNN5 (I'm not sure that's even possible but Albert was really negative) Brandon CPM5 (He's a loud 19-year-old but you felt for him) Coach CPM4 (You could feel he struggled with his decision but his body language was pretty apathetic) Rick MOR2 (He was there. He talked. Not winning) Sophie CPP3 (The editors made you root for Sophie and she was given a lot of compliments. Then again, it's Sophie so she isn't overtly positive) Ozzy UTR1 (Duel. And that's it.) Edna UTR1 (Duel. And bye.) Winner: Sophie- Coach is the distraction, Albert is the doubt, Sophie wins. Coach- I saw positivity in his edit, so I'm still hanging on to Coach.
Sportsman		#6719	[-]
Posts: 1054 (12/14/11 11:06 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Coach - CPM5 Brandon - CPM5 Albert - CPN5 Sophie - CP4 Rick - UTR2 Ozzy - UTR1 Edna - UTR1
cantthinkofaname		#6720	[-]
Posts: 2466 (12/14/11 11:06 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Ads no more Remove this ad Soladrian wrote: I got my ratings down but I'll wait till the Visibility Chart to put them up. The number system confuses me I'll have it up in about an hour.

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S-23 Edgic (editing and logic)