S-23 Edgic (editing and logic) in Survivor Speculation Forum

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S-23 Edgic (editing and logic)

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survivorgirl22		#7401	[-]
Posts: 3587 (12/21/11 02:42 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	When I was born I was so surprised I didn�t talk for a year and a half. Remove this ad neonrain wrote: drowsy12 wrote: I think the great edit Jim got exemplifies the Probst influence. While Jim remains my favorite player this season and I am glad we got to see a lot of him - Probst names Jim as one of THREE people he liked this season (coach and cochran were the other two) - so I am sure he told the editors to give him a good edit. Jim also voted the 'right' way, along with Cochran, so their edits were even more favorable. Jim actually voted for Sophie.Edna said that she,Cochran,and Rick voted for Coach.
Lexxan		#7402	[-]
Posts: 11858 (12/21/11 02:57 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Yes, I think we have the resign to the fact production/editing is inherently sexist, meaning that we as Edgicians need to be more careful (and conservative) considering our Female Winner picks. Males usually tend to have straight-forward edits, making them very easy to predict (except Bob lol), but women, especially in a season where the big characters are ALL Male tend to likely have shitty edits, even if the won the game. That being said is that most female winners tend to get the "second in command" edit, meaning they are usually CP-lite (MOR) overall, are edited as the second in command to the (mostly male leader) and usually get to observe/narrate what's going on and how it is affecting their game. (and in addition, they usually have weakish Merge episode, with it being either MOR or med/low vis (or both)). I'm writing about it right now, and I do think most female winners (Tina, Vee, PI Sandra, Danni, Natalie, Sophie, Jenna) fall within the same winner's "class": That of "Lieutenant", the second in command who either beats their Leader in a jury vote (with a highly negative edit for the leader/decoy) or avenge them after they get booted. [note: Ethan also falls into this cathegory, the only male winner to do so )]. They aren't the strategic catalysts behind the season, but we are told of the game and what they think of it. We get inside their head although they are rarely the ones pulling the strings. Another interesting thing is that females with STRONG CPP edits rarely win. The only female CP winners are Parvati and PI Sandra, but Sandra's edit was a mix of all kinds of ratings, and techically she's VERY close to being MORP overall.... and while Parvati is the closest thing to a strong CP "classic" winner's edit a woman has ever had, and it happened in a season where ALL the "power players" (Parv, Cirie, Amanda, Tracy, Eliza) were women. ALL other women with strong and undeniably CP edits on the other hand LOST the game. (Kelly W, Elisabeth, Peih-Gee, Kathy, Betsy, Deena, Holly, Dawn, Helen, etc)
getting real		#7403	[-]
Posts: 2897 (12/21/11 03:21 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	None of this changes my view that, edit-wise, the Upolus were punished for not making a move all season. I'd be willing to wager that the One World concept might have been quickly decided following the boring pagongings of the past two seasons.
Kitty Pryde1		#7404	[-]
Posts: 13330 (12/21/11 03:28 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	The sad thing is that I hope the allegedly all-female tribe in OW loses immunity a lot, because otherwise they're going to get ignored all season long.
Bulletin Bored		#7405	[-]
Posts: 26102 (12/21/11 03:35 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I guess I just don't understand the idea that Sophie should have played any other game than the one she did.
neonrain		#7406	[-]
Posts: 18 (12/21/11 03:53 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	You can play that kind of game, but unless you give some entertaining soundbytes along the way you're going to get shafted in the editing. Sophie's problem - editing-wise - is that she was lacking in both the entertaining gameplay and entertaining confessionals department. There wasn't a whole lot for editors to work with there. Hence the 'MOR narrator/observer' edit. This is one season where I can't really blame the editors for putting the winner's story on the back burner.
Bulletin Bored		#7407	[-]
Posts: 26105 (12/21/11 03:58 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Well, that's your opinion. I'd rather watch a Sophie confessional than a Coach confessional any day. The show makes stars by forcing people on the audience and then brings them back over and over again. The audience forgets how they felt about the returning players in past seasons and roots for them because they know them. It's a vicious cycle and it MUST END.
getting real		#7408	[-]
Posts: 2898 (12/21/11 04:06 PM) Registered User Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Bulletin Bored wrote: I guess I just don't understand the idea that Sophie should have played any other game than the one she did. Even if that's true, it doesn't mean that the producers had any reason to like it. She and the rest of the Upolus were disproportionally punished, edit-wise, as much as Cochran (and the other Sevaiis) were rewarded disproportionally for the moves he (they) made. However, I don't even think even that basic premise is true. What other game should she have played? The one where her social game didn't need 'humanising' (her words) by accident to win over the jurors. Arguably, it was that fortuitous TC breakdown that won over the majority of the jury, coupled with Albert's late implosion. He machete-wielding Sophierce-ness was not a good strategy to lay out in front of prospective jurors. What other game should she have played? The one where her game didn't depend on Albert's misguided largesse to keep her when Rick was booted. I supect her breakdown may have convinced Albert that she might be another Amanda in the making at that TC; however, from his point of view, he probably should have gone with his first instincts. You make great points about Christine. Her achievement was totally unacknowledged. It's sad that this neglect extends also to all non-jury members of the cast. Progressively, over sucessive seasons, they have been shafted from the opening credits, the fallen comrades tribute and now, more and more, from getting any kind of look-in at the Reunion. Why even call it a Reunion if it's just a reprise of the achievements of a select few?
drowsy12		#7409	[-]
Posts: 5043 (12/21/11 04:32 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	honestly one of the positives of this season for me was they learned in 22 that no one cares about RI and they wasted so much time with Matt there. I liked that we had minimal time there and more scenes with people in the game. They sort of changed that to a small extent with Ozzy but he still didn't get that much time. Probst has publicly said that RI was brought about when they were trying to figure out how to keep their returnees around longer (I remember when the rumor first came out that it ws going to be Rob vs Russell a lot of people thought they might get immunity until merge or something). After season 22 where everyone hated it, they had to do it one more time in order to save face and not admit it was just for Rob/Russell - plus they brought Coach/Ozzy back. They fixed the concept of RI by minimizing the time devoted to it and also made it so you had to WIN the duel to move on. I think RI is done for forever now. it sucked, no one liked it.
Battlekid		#7410	[-]
Posts: 353 (12/21/11 04:51 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	When I was born I was so surprised I didn�t talk for a year and a half. Remove this ad I'm not buying this BS that Upolu was punished for not making moves. If that were the case, Bob would have gotten a shit edit too. He didn't. Sophie is ten times the player he is, because she was always in the know. She had control and say in everything that happened. Bob didn't do a god damn thing better than Sophie, yet his edit was far better and always positive. There is a bias against women , its' clear as day.
drowsy12		#7411	[-]
Posts: 5049 (12/21/11 04:53 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Bob WAS positive. Sophie really isn't. they could have easily made her CPN though - just listen to any CBS.com video. Her, Albert, and Jim had the best understanding of strategy this entire season.
neonrain		#7412	[-]
Posts: 19 (12/21/11 05:47 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Lexxan wrote: Another interesting thing is that females with STRONG CPP edits rarely win. The only female CP winners are Parvati and PI Sandra, but Sandra's edit was a mix of all kinds of ratings, and techically she's VERY close to being MORP overall.... and while Parvati is the closest thing to a strong CP "classic" winner's edit a woman has ever had, and it happened in a season where ALL the "power players" (Parv, Cirie, Amanda, Tracy, Eliza) were women. ALL other women with strong and undeniably CP edits on the other hand LOST the game. (Kelly W, Elisabeth, Peih-Gee, Kathy, Betsy, Deena, Holly, Dawn, Helen, etc) Good observation. I guess the lesson here is - if a female player's edit looks too good to be true, it probably is.
jedijun		#7413	[-]
Posts: 3433 (12/21/11 06:17 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I don't think winner picks should be made until episode 5 at least. Some people were so SOLD on Dawn by like episode 3 or whatev and I'm just like ....no. Also if there are a certain group of people with high vis and there's a woman who's right behind them I think y'all should pay close attention to her. Danni was right behind Steph/Rafe/Judd/Gary yet she apparently wrecked Edgic back in 05. Sophie was right behind Coach/Ozzy/Cochran but she was still relevant. In a way she was Danni, Brandon was Judd, Steph was Coach, Albert was Rafe. Sophie didn't have a big break out episode like Danni, or positive scenes, positive SPV or basically anything that a low key female winner has. Sophie was constantly toneless because there pretty much was no way to make her positive, she wasn't everyone's bestie and her confessionals were pretty bitchy. Her being toneless was pretty much her being positive. I've listened/read some Sophie interviews and there was no way the general audience would like her. She has a very dry sense of humor and if we saw her in all of that CPN glory it would be like Morascagate 2.0. And before someone hollers BUT PARVATI WAS A CPN BITCH please rewatch post merge Micronesia, Parvati was fun, upbeat, and very ^__^. She was very sharp and strategic too but her edit really isn't omg NNNNNNN. Also, quit it with the CPP5 douchebot winner picks and take this new age of Survivor editing into consideration when you make a winner pick. Edgic is apparently about finding the winner yet ....it COMPLETELY forgets about Jeff who we all know will make anything with a penis the star of the show (Coach, Rob, Russell, Ozzy). Now I'm just awaiting for a male to come along with Natalie White's exact edit and win <3 It's my dream come true. Last Edited By: jedijun 12/21/11 06:20 PM. Edited 1 times.
Slicer37		#7414	[-]
Posts: 403 (12/21/11 06:19 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Well, I was wrong this season. I thought the story was about how honor triumphs with Coach's victory, but it took a completely different direction. I guess I learned to factor the male bias with my predictions. BTW, when is the S23 complete edgic being posted.
doratheexplorer		#7415	[-]
Posts: 5712 (12/21/11 06:26 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	jedijun wrote: I don't think winner picks should be made until episode 5 at least. Some people were so SOLD on Dawn by like episode 3 or whatev and I'm just like ....no. Also if there are a certain group of people with high vis and there's a woman who's right behind them I think y'all should pay close attention to her. Danni was right behind Steph/Rafe/Judd/Gary yet she apparently wrecked Edgic back in 05. Sophie was right behind Coach/Ozzy/Cochran but she was still relevant. In a way she was Danni, Brandon was Judd, Steph was Coach, Albert was Rafe. Sophie didn't have a big break out episode like Danni, or positive scenes, positive SPV or basically anything that a low key female winner has. Sophie was constantly toneless because there pretty much was no way to make her positive, she wasn't everyone's bestie and her confessionals were pretty bitchy. Her being toneless was pretty much her being positive. I've listened/read some Sophie interviews and there was no way the general audience would like her. She has a very dry sense of humor and if we saw her in all of that CPN glory it would be like Morascagate 2.0. And before someone hollers BUT PARVATI WAS A CPN BITCH please rewatch post merge Micronesia, Parvati was fun, upbeat, and very ^__^. She was very sharp and strategic too but her edit really isn't omg NNNNNNN. Also, quit it with the CPP5 douchebot winner picks and take this new age of Survivor editing into consideration when you make a winner pick. Edgic is apparently about finding the winner yet ....it COMPLETELY forgets about Jeff who we all know will make anything with a penis the star of the show (Coach, Rob, Russell, Ozzy). Now I'm just awaiting for a male to come along with Natalie White's exact edit and win <3 It's my dream come true. TRUER WORDS HAVE NEVER BEEN WRITTEN JEDIJUNGEL <3
Battlekid		#7416	[-]
Posts: 354 (12/21/11 06:53 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	It's not just about being positive. They could have just shown more of her being strategic which she clearly was. Brian the puppy killer was not likeable in the least, that didn't stop him from getting a large edit.
Not		#7417	[-]
Posts: 124 (12/21/11 06:55 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Sophie, Coach and Albert played pretty much the same game, she did a great FTC, Coach was lukewarm and Albert imploded, if Rick or Brandon had played the same game Coach played and performed like he did in FTC, there would be no complaints. Coach had a great improvement from his previous seasons, but there was little to choose between the F3 and the one who performed better at FTC won, sucks for Coach because he was at his best but objectively he did not play a better game than Sophie. Sophie has many problems from an editing viewpoint, she's a good strategist but Jim and Albert were also good strategists and both are more charismatic than she is, she was snarky but Christine and Stacy outshined her in that department, she doesn't have the the looks of the other younger women, she's not a party girl like Elyse, she's not neurotic like Cochran or crazy like Brandon, she may be arrogant but not as much as Ozzy, Upolu's tribe dynamics were either boring or scary, everything was against her, they decided to make her cerebral, but since that's not a very visual quality she ended up with a very underwhelming edit.
jedijun		#7418	[-]
Posts: 3434 (12/21/11 07:03 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	Battlekid wrote: It's not just about being positive. They could have just shown more of her being strategic which she clearly was. Brian the puppy killer was not likeable in the least, that didn't stop him from getting a large edit. I agree. The editors could have gave Coach a much needed cool down, Albert was king of UTRland, and there's only so much fishing I can take before I throw my television out the window. The reason I never supported Sophie was because I thought it was weird how she was always CPverylite and never had an episode all to her own, or at least one where she had a major role. But like I said, in a season where the winner wasn't likeable to the masses, there were camera whores we've never experienced before what did you expect? And I didn't watch Thailand so I can't really comment on Brian's edit. What I can say is pre All Stars editing is head and shoulders above post All Stars editing and honestly it was like going from a plump lobster tail at a fancy restaurant to a dinky McChicken at the McDonald's down the block.
Bulletin Bored		#7419	[-]
Posts: 26107 (12/21/11 07:06 PM) Registered user Reply Quote More Recent Posts	I don't think you're being fair, gr. Every winner over the past 22 seasons has had luck on their side several times throughout the game. The point is, playing the way she did won Sophie the title. There's no reason to punish her for not acting like a spaz to entertain the masses. The way you describe it, every player would be required to use their "Shake up the game!" Card at least once per season if they value their future edit. Bullshit. Aren't we glad Survivor isn't The Hills? When I express frustration after the finale, it's usually because I'm mad at the editors for not telling the winner's story. It's definitely not because I'm angry with the winner for not sabotaging their game just to increase the speed at which I shovel popcorn into my mouf.
zapagonged		#7420	[-]
Posts: 786 (12/21/11 07:14 PM) Reply Quote More Recent Posts	When I was born I was so surprised I didn�t talk for a year and a half. Remove this ad Slicer37 wrote: Well, I was wrong this season. I thought the story was about how honor triumphs with Coach's victory, but it took a completely different direction. I guess I learned to factor the male bias with my predictions. BTW, when is the S23 complete edgic being posted. On this note, when are we posting the overall edits into the S22 chart.

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S-23 Edgic (editing and logic)