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 WylDawg |
Re: Can a woman ever win Surivor again? | ||
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Posts: 21051 (05/14/07 12:58 PM) Registered user |
I don't understand people who say the F3 is a dissadvantage for women. So basically, you're saying women can't beat any guy who is the least bit respected, they can only beat a total goat or another woman?
If that's the case, then clearly women have weaker games than men. |
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 AllMenArePeninsulas |
Re: Can a woman ever win Surivor again? | ||
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Posts: 596 (05/14/07 1:08 PM) I need a hobby |
wyl it's not necessarily weaker games it's just that MB cast guys who would never ever vote for a woman unless she was up against super goat(Cocky,Alex,Lisi,Edtardo,Pukie) even if Cassandra was Mother Teresa and also a brilliant strategist she would never have gotten those 5 votes unless she was up against someone like Dreamz.
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GretchenIsMyGod |
Re: Can a woman ever win Surivor again? | ||
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Posts: 3181 (05/15/07 2:38 PM) Registered User |
Cassandra also did work pulling in Boo when she won that reward and took him. And sent Earl to EI. I only wish they'd shown a little more of her.
Agreed that Yul had the advantage over Becky in that he was a strong male, and thus sent to HII, and thus found, and thus had the bargaining chips to look important. Had he not had the idol, and were he female, I think it would've been pretty even between the two of them. One of the main problems is the casting. Come on guys, try a little harder. Er, maybe just try. Baby steps. It's really pathetic at this point. As is the editing. Maybe by the time Survivor: Skull Island comes around, they'll be enough puzzle knots to allow women past the tribal stage. |
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seltzer3 |
Re: Can a woman ever win Surivor again? | ||
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Posts: 1518 (05/15/07 2:42 PM) Registered User |
The thing is, they don't even have faith in the women that they cast.
Jeff only predicted Jessica to actually win out of all 9 women, and said Lilliana would do well. The rest he said had no chance, and pretty much ripped on Sylvia and Cassandra. I'm glad Cassandra got far, to prove Jeff wrong. In comparison he supported Mookie, Alex, Edgardo, Earl, Gary, Rocky, and Anthony. If you are going to cast women, at least cast women that you believe that have a chance of winning. |
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shawnoverboard |
Re: Can a woman ever win Surivor again? | ||
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Posts: 359 (05/15/07 3:20 PM) Registered User |
Quote: so true, even though w/all of the tribal shakeups, it might be a wiser move to take out a "strong" alpha male in the beginning, while he is on your tribe, before some twist makes him your enemy. as for the twist that specifically screwed Mihelle, MB all-but guaranteed a female boot there. By having the women choose marbles from different bags than the men, he guaranteed that no more than 2 women would be on each team of 5. Since he was planning on an immediate tribal council, with no time for stragezing, he couldn't risk that a team with three women might just take out a man as its easiest solution. |
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van slyker |
Re: Can a woman ever win Surivor again? | ||
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Posts: 2144 (05/15/07 3:51 PM) Registered User |
Quote: how would the women have communicated a plan if there was no time for strategizing. By making sure no tribe got all 3 women, I think he was trying to save them. A tribe with all 3 women would have been more likely to lose because 2 of them would have to row. Now there's a 3/5 chance a woman is getting the boot when they absolutely lose the challenge. |
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panurge46 |
Re: Can a woman ever win Surivor again? | ||
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Posts: 1552 (05/15/07 3:53 PM) Registered user |
Wyldawg had part of the answer here:
Quote: But look at it this way: Despite her shortcomings, Danielle had a real shot at Austin's and Sally's votes. If so, she wins 4-3 over Aras, Danielle had bonded with Austin during their stay at EI and Austin was disappointed in Aras. Losing Sally's vote showed Danielle's weak social interactions with her old Bayoneta tribemate and was inexcusable but social skills are not a problem for most women. If Jonathan isn't a greedy bastard and doesn't flip on Raro or if Raro keeps Jenny instead of him, the final 3 is Candice, Parvati and one of Adam or Nathan. Candice or Parvati assuredly wins Cook Island. Women can still win. |
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shawnoverboard |
Re: Can a woman ever win Surivor again? | ||
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Posts: 359 (05/15/07 4:15 PM) Registered User |
Quote: But you forget here that the challenge was also of MB's making. It didn't appear from nowhere. |
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gibson97 |
Re: Can a woman ever win Surivor again? | ||
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Posts: 687 (05/15/07 4:58 PM) Registered User |
I think Survivor inherently focuses on "the strong" with too much of a positive spin. Men are more likely to win in challenges, do the workload around the camp so they are more entitled to the prize....this shouldn't be the case.
I thought Survivor had gotten to the point where people respected game playing and manipulating...but obviously the final TC of Fiji proved otherwise. If anyone, I would have though Alex would have awarded gameplay. The overall feeling of the strong are better needs to change. Otherwise, we'll never have a Cassie winning and females will always find it tough to win. |
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Muad Dib |
Re: Can a woman ever win Surivor again? | ||
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Posts: 158 (05/15/07 5:37 PM) I don't get |
Earl played a very "female" role in this season of survivor. I don't mean to call him a woman or disrespect his gameplay, but if Earl had been female everyone would be saying another UTR female had beaten the game.
Just look at his strategy. He didn't want to be pushy and dominate, he never received any votes post-merge, nobody identified him as a threat, and it is debatable as to whether he coasted into the final 3 or not. You could also say he won not because he was a good player, but because the jury was consciously casting votes AGAINST Dreamz and Cassandra. Obviously, he played a great social and strategic game and a poor physical one, something most female winners have in common. Therefore, a woman or a 'female' strategy can still win survivor. |
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Dr Will Hatch two point oh |
Re: Can a woman ever win Surivor again? | ||
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Posts: 9710 (05/15/07 5:59 PM) Registered user |
Quote:Rafe was a much better stratagist then Steph. In the latter case, I really like Cirie but she was unfortunatly propped up by the editing to look brilliant(which she is) while Aras looks like her pawn. Totally untue. Aras was a master stratagist and was ignored because their is a subtle hatred of younger people, because younger COULDN'T POSSIBLY be good players, especially if their attractive. |
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Quiddity |
Re: Can a woman ever win Surivor again? | ||
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Posts: 6731 (05/15/07 8:53 PM) Registered User |
Quote: Steph definately 'got her hands dirty', but I would not say so in the context you're talking about. If you're talking about a situation where in the pair the female dominated strategically (or was as you say, the 'doer') and the male followed, there's no way in the world you can include Rafe/Steph there. I'd say you can't really put it in that context period. Rafe was the dominant strategist. Rafe was the one making every single decision. Rafe was the 'doer' in that pair. If you're talking about perception from the jury then certainly that's the way Rafe pulled things off, where it appeared that Steph was the vicious backstabber while he was the nice guy (of course in some cases it couldn't have not come off that way. Judd was Steph's big ally, not Rafe's. It wasn't Rafe who viciously voted out Judd and Cindy immediately after having rewards shared with him). But that's not what reality was. Steph certainly wasn't UTR, but not being UTR doesn't make her the dominant strategist of the pair. |
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WylDawg |
Re: Can a woman ever win Surivor again? | ||
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Posts: 21051 (05/15/07 9:11 PM) Registered user |
I think you guys misunderstood me. I'm well aware that Rafe was the strategist here, but Steph was the one doing the actual dirty work. So I was just pointing out a case where two people worked together and it was actually the woman who was the doer, even though set was completely being set-up as a goat. It was kinda like a reversed version of Romber, except Amber didn't have half the brains Rafe did.
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goneswimming |
Re: Can a woman ever win Surivor again? | ||
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Posts: 1329 (05/15/07 9:58 PM) I don't get |
omg. a woman needs to win. next season. :
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AnomyBC |
Re: Can a woman ever win Surivor again? | ||
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Posts: 4943 (05/15/07 10:02 PM) Registered User |
There are 3 reasons why there have been, and why there will likely continue to be fewer female winners........
1. On Survivor, women tend to be targetted pre-merge, and men post-merge. Seasons with larger numbers of players, like most of the recent ones, wind up having more pre-merge boots than seasons with only 16 people. This means that fewer females are left in the game come merge time. 2. Jurors tend to see males as more deserving than females in general, and because of this, the Final 3 jury vote will tend to hurt females, because it gives the jurors more potential male options to choose over them. 3. The HIIs also favor males, because it's almost always males who are exiled. Of course, all that being said, I'm sure there will be some more female winners, it's just going to be more difficult now. |
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craig |
Re: Can a woman ever win Surivor again? | ||
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Posts: 16532 (05/15/07 11:34 PM) Registered User |
Quote: This is a real dilemma and potential Catch-22. If you allign with smart good guys males, as Katie and Becky did, you look pathetic sitting beside them at the end. But look what happened to Candice when she mutineered to the more malleable and less threatening Adam and Nate? They all got crushed by the dynamic due of Yul and Ozzy. This season Rocky had a lot to do with the demise of Jessica and Liliana. He's a loud cokcy guy who approached them for allainces, and others feared their Romber potential. So Jessica had as target on her, and Alex was more worried about Liliana going back to Rocky than Cassie defecting to Earl. The ep.1 twiast really screwed women this season. It ensured they were a 5-4 minority, it ensured 3 days of alliances went down the drain and the losing tribe would probably target a female as weak. And almost all the women with the potential to win ended up on Ravu. |
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JLK Name |
Re: Can a woman ever win Surivor again? | ||
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Posts: 2287 (05/16/07 12:26 AM) Registered User |
Hopefully in the next 2 season (s15/SASS2).
Put Dustin&Kandice in the show!!! |
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sunflower100 |
Re: Can a woman ever win Surivor again? | ||
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Posts: 2963 (05/16/07 12:57 AM) Registered user |
michelle wasn't in trouble from her alliance, she was a victim of her twist. boo or stacy would have been voted off at the merge, if that twist hadn't happened. michell wouldn't have been in danger at the merge, because she wasn't the biggest physical threat in her alliance, and everyone was targeting boo, or stacy at the merge.
plus she was in an alliance with earl, yau-man, and cassandra who wouldn't have voted for her, and cassandra probably would have told dreamz not to vote for her, if she had a chance to talk to him before the vote. |
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sunflower100 |
Re: Can a woman ever win Surivor again? | ||
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Posts: 2963 (05/16/07 1:11 AM) Registered user |
actually i do think that more males will eventually be voted out pre-merge. i think people are going to be more worried about not getting rid of the terry/ozzy types after the merge. i think this will happen, especially on allstars.
i think people will be a lot more worried that someone will go on a huge challenge run towards the end, so they will be voted out a lot sooner. the problem with this is, you still have to win tribal challenges before the merge. they are often physical and that makes the alpha males a lot more valuable before the merge. now whether the tribal challenges need to be made more fair for females, is a whole other debate. i like to see females kick butt, as much as the next person. i don't however like the idea that people should be upset that a certain number of any gender, or race win. i just want to see worthy and entertaining winners, i don't care about race or gender. |
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About Breaking the Rules |
Re: Can a woman ever win Surivor again? | ||
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Posts: 3803 (05/16/07 10:03 AM) Registered user |
Quote:And whether or not it was revealed, Rita's vote for him in the third round certainly didn't matter. |
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